Remember We Run a ZBS (Comments on Drafting OLs)

[Darth Tater]

Edited for accuracy.

Its simply that with a zone blocking scheme you can get away with smaller offensive linemen and athleticism is of greater weight than size . You still PREFER big guys just not at the cost of other factors.

[skinsfan190]

Something I've been seeing a lot of over the past month has been people saying things like "I'm done with this organization if we don't draft Okung" or "we better go OL in the first."

You guys have to remember that the ZBS scheme depends on lighter more athletic linemen. Thus, guys like Anthony Davis, Okung, Iupati, and Trent Williams might not necessarily fit the ZBS. Instead, when discussing linemen, we should focus discussion on guys like Charles Brown and Selvish Capers, the lighter more athletic guys who would be perfect fits in the ZBS.

So, keep in mind when you do your draft research, to pay attention to a prospect's relative athleticism and height/weight combo among other factors.

I insist that when you do draft research on linemen, take a look at http://seahawksdraft.blogspot.com/

The Seahawks also run a ZBS and look for similar linemen to the ones we look for.

:applause:

I couldn't agree more. I doubt we will draft a Tackle at 4.

When you say u have to draft a certain position first you get in a lot of trouble. Like when we had to draft a big reciever, we passed up on Desean Jackson twice:doh: Looks like Fred and DT are gonna be good ut still. Jackson is unbelieveable.

Okung is good, but I really like Clausen or Bradford in this system. I think Shanhan will agree and draft a QB to compete with Jason. Who knows Jason mght get even better and step his game up with some competition.

[texasthunder]

I think its premature to think that its automatic that we will be a zone blocking team. This is the NFC East that features 3 of the best defensive lines in football.

Shanny has had over a year to decide what he wants to do in the NFC East, we can throw it around with assumptions all winter long, but honestly nobody can tell me that they are 100% certain that he is going to run the exact same scheme he was running in Denver. That zone scheme was fine 6 games a yr vs the Raiders, Chiefs and San Diego at the time, but here? I'm not so sure.

Ok admittedly, I never saw a Texans game while Kyle's been there, but they play Colts, Jags, Titans right? Not exactly the most fearsome defensive lines there huh?

He won't answer what he's going to do, I don't expect him to. But there won't be any clues for this part for a long time all we can do is sit back and wait for his first move, right?

This is my thought process also.

Shanahan is known as an offensive genius, between he and Kyle, they are going to find the sscheme that works best against NFC defenses.

I will say that I am kinda excited to see what kind of game plans he draws up versus the Boys, Eagles, and Giants.

[skinsfan190]

I put this in some other threads but this is what Shanahan should do IMO.

This is if no CBA is reached. This approach cant really include FA as much because the class is much weaker.

I think he will draft his QB whether it's Clausen or Bradford 4th Overall

Keep Jason Campbell to start this season

Trade Laron Landry for a 2nd and 5th

Need draft picks are Laron isnt the playmaker we all hoped. He is just a hard hitting strong safety. Personally I'd perfer a better tackling Horton at SS and a 2nd and 5th round pick.

Trade Carlos Rogers for a 3rd round pick

He will be a Restricted Free Agent so hopefully a team will give up a 3rd to sign him. We might could get more, but for now I wont be greedy.

Keep Chris Cooley. Tough decision here, but I think Shanahan can really utilize both TEs.

Resign Reed Doughty, Rocky Mac, Hunter "the punter" Smith, Kendric Golston

Release Randel El, Todd Collins, Clinton Portis, Randy Thomas, Cornelius Griffin, Mike Sellers

The no cap really lets us dispose of these high priced guys

Overall some of the team Cancers and old Veterans got to go.

Now as far as the Draft now we have plenty of picks to work with.

O yeah another point about Shanahans scheme. He doesnt draft oline that high because their normally undersized. around 290 to 310. Agil and quick feet. Guys like a Jeremy Zuttah in 2008 slipped to the 3rd because he is primary a zone blocking guy. A very good one too.

1. Jimmy Clausen/Sam Bradford

2. Javhid Best RB Cal

2. Charles Brown OT USC (could drop because his size/Bryan Bulaga OT Iowa (JR-could drop like Britton did last year)

3. Mike Johnson OG Alabama/Rodney Hudson OG FSU

4. Selvish Capers RT West Virginia

5. Eric Olsen, C, Notre Dame

5. Jacoby Ford Wr Clemson/ DeMarco Murray RB Oklahoma

7. Patrick Trahan Olb Ole Miss

I know some may think I crazy with some players falling to us, but it happens every year. Who though Macho Harris would go in the 5th. Steve Slaton late 3rd. Carl Nicks late 5th. Teshard choice 4th round.

Obviously yall get my drift here. Young at offenseive skill positions and offensive line.

In addition to this, we pick up low priced, veteran role players.

What ya'll think

[Spooky]

So why is Okung such a great fit for us?

Does anyone know or is it just that he's the "top" lineman available?

Besides having a nasty attitude, he is quick and agile for a left tackle. He can get out in open space and pancake linebackers.

[gorebd82]

OR if Bradford gets a really high grade as a future Phil Rivers or Drew Brees style QB, draft him at 4, find a way to trade back into the early first for Anthony Davis, Bryan Bulaga, or Bruce Campbell if he falls a little, and then draft Petrus in the mid rounds. Trade Campbell and Cooley if you have to. Then in 2011 look for a top OT like Boling, Carimi, King, whoever--perhaps a LT if you draft Bulaga, and draft the center. Then look for your RB in the later rounds or pick a stud in 2012. This way you've got an elite offensive line built, great receivers, and Shanahan's own QB as the maestro of the offense. Shrewd drafting and good player development will allow us to rebuild this offense into one of the best in the league in 2 or 3 seasons.

You already know how I feel about Bradford. I've been advocating a trade of Campbell, but it looks like Shanny might not move him immediately. I think that means that we need to move Cooley so that we are guaranteed to pick up at least one tackle in the second round. Cooley should at least get us a 2nd and 5th.

Some 1st round talent will fall into the 2nd this year. There is just too much talent in this draft. In my opinion, having two early second rounders this year is the equivalent of two mid-late 1sts in most years.

As much as I like Cooley, Bruce Allen and Mike Shannahan both seem to lean towards one pass catching TE and one blocking TE. We can re-sign Yoder and spend the 5th we acquire for Cooley on a replacement TE with stronger blocking skills. This year, TE is considered to possibly be the deepest position in the draft.

Getting back to offensive line, having two picks in the 2nd would allow us to go OT and BPA in the second. This way, we don't have to pass up Jahvid Best, Dunlap, Hardy, or Art Jones if they are available. Or best case scenario, we pick up bookend tackles if some guys slip. Hopefully, those defensive linemen jump ahead of the offensive linemen. We might luck up on Bruce Campbell and Bulaga.

I think I'd much rather have Fred Davis, a rookie blocking TE, BPA, and OT than Davis, Cooley and possibly pass on BPA to reach for OT. Or if we don't trade Cooley, and we take BPA instead of OT, we'll be playing catch up in all the middle rounds.

[TheLongshot]

There is an assumption by the OP that we will be a zone blocking line. Given Shanahan's comments, that isn't a sure thing. It sounds like he's going to be going with what he feels the linemen we have are good at, which he hasn't decided yet since he hasn't done his analysis.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

That zone scheme was fine 6 games a yr vs the Raiders, Chiefs and San Diego at the time, but here? I'm not so sure.

Sure worked against Jamal Williams (pro bowl NT at the time), Shawne Merriman (pre-roids and knee injury), Luis Castillo, Jared Allen, and even

Ok admittedly, I never saw a Texans game while Kyle's been there, but they play Colts, Jags, Titans right? Not exactly the most fearsome defensive lines there huh?

Uh...

Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, John Henderson, Marcus Stroud. All Pro Bowl caliber guards at the time. Oh, and this guy.

Yes, the NFC East lines are pretty fearsome, but outside Ware, they don't have any single player on Haynesworth's or Freeney's level of dominance.

[Zhouse]

What's the possibility of Samuels returning and being able to play at a high level? If he can't be effective at LT, can he transition to RT?

[maskedsuperstar]

I'd be skiddish about Selvish Capers to be honest. Without seeing highlights of just what he's doing I'm not sure I'd go with him.

Is it up to you? There is film on the guy. I'm sure Shanahan won't be asking any input from you.

[DCranon21]

Actually, Oklahoma St. runs a zone-blocking scheme, and the comment on Okung was he understands the ZBS. I know I put it in a thread this week, but I'll find it, and update my post.

[cjrugger]

I insist that when you do draft research on linemen, take a look at http://seahawksdraft.blogspot.com/

The Seahawks also run a ZBS and look for similar linemen to the ones we look for.

Um, I have a hard time taking a draft site seriously that has Okung going 24th overall and the 4th OT

[BKSkinsFan]

Franchise LTs are not easy to find. Of course franchise QBs are difficult as well, and at this point, we obviously need both.

I don't see JC being a franchise game changing QB, but even I have to admit, he is a better answer at QB than Jones is at LT. I also am just not convinced on any QB coming out as being that highly touted franchise QB. It's a tough decision for them, I hope they make the best choice for the team.

[jflow78]

If anything, this will only help us. Lighter linemen are largely available in the later rounds of the draft, PLUS FA this year is light on starting NFL OL, and since most teams rely on larger OL, maybe there are a couple of guys we can bring in that will be better in a ZBS than in the kind we run.

Who knows, maybe a couple of our own guys can be successful in a ZBS instead of the open turnstyle high five 'em on their way to the ball carrier blocking scheme we were running.

[Peregrine]

Um, I have a hard time taking a draft site seriously that has Okung going 24th overall and the 4th OT

Also considering that Clausen doesnt even go in the first round in that draft...

[Going Commando]

There is an assumption by the OP that we will be a zone blocking line. Given Shanahan's comments, that isn't a sure thing. It sounds like he's going to be going with what he feels the linemen we have are good at, which he hasn't decided yet since he hasn't done his analysis.

Also I really think he doesn't want to tip his hand on how he'll draft. This is exactly what we should have expected him to say even if he's planning on drafting 5 undersized zone blocking offensive linemen.

Oh and as for what's suitable for taking on the NFC east, it's not as if a pure zone blocking scheme executed well couldn't destroy our division just like it destroys everyone else. The Packers and Colts are killing teams with it in difficult divisions and Denver has been able to run the ball for a long time on 3-4 teams like San Diego which is exactly what the Cowboys run. I'd actually say the defensive lines the Giants and Cowboys field are undersized if anything. It should be pretty effective against the Cowboys in particular because our linemen take on linebackers so often anyway and Jay Ratliff is not a space eating nose tackle.

[Going Commando]

Um, I have a hard time taking a draft site seriously that has Okung going 24th overall and the 4th OT

Why? Have you watched him play? Have you watched Anthony Davis this season to see what an elite LT prospect looks like? His projections are based on actual observation and film study not heresay and unfounded dratnik hype. That guy knows what he's talking about. Okung just isn't that special.

[Going Commando]

Also considering that Clausen doesnt even go in the first round in that draft...

Clausen isn't that good either. I watched several of his games this year and I can not for the life of me see why he's being talked about as a top 10 pick. Limited arm strength + low, side arm release + small stature + never having beaten anyone of note in his entire career = Colt Brennan 2.0. Why is Clausen considered a stud prospect and Colt McCoy a mid rounder when they've got nearly the same set of attributes? Because Clausen played for Charlie Weiss and McCoy played for Mack Brown? Ok, so we got to watch Jimmy Clausen play for Charlie Weiss and lose every single big game he ever played in while Colt McCoy went out and set the wins record. I'm not saying I want us to draft Colt McCoy, but I'd much rather draft him at the top of the second than Clausen anywhere in the first.

[Oldskool]

Something I've been seeing a lot of over the past month has been people saying things like "I'm done with this organization if we don't draft Okung" or "we better go OL in the first."

You guys have to remember that the ZBS scheme depends on lighter more athletic linemen. Thus, guys like Anthony Davis, Okung, Iupati, and Trent Williams might not necessarily fit the ZBS. Instead, when discussing linemen, we should focus discussion on guys like Charles Brown and Selvish Capers, the lighter more athletic guys who would be perfect fits in the ZBS.

So, keep in mind when you do your draft research, to pay attention to a prospect's relative athleticism and height/weight combo among other factors.

I insist that when you do draft research on linemen, take a look at http://seahawksdraft.blogspot.com/

The Seahawks also run a ZBS and look for similar linemen to the ones we look for.

Shanny has said that he may not run a ZBS exclusively and immediately.

You also have to remember that the OL in this years draft, especially early on are suited for ZBS much more so than in the past. Lighter OL worked in Denver due to the altitude, but won't be a detriment here. To be a ZBS OL you need to be athletic, not light.

[WyomingRedskin]

Something I've been seeing a lot of over the past month has been people saying things like "I'm done with this organization if we don't draft Okung" or "we better go OL in the first."

You guys have to remember that the ZBS scheme depends on lighter more athletic linemen. Thus, guys like Anthony Davis, Okung, Iupati, and Trent Williams might not necessarily fit the ZBS. Instead, when discussing linemen, we should focus discussion on guys like Charles Brown and Selvish Capers, the lighter more athletic guys who would be perfect fits in the ZBS.

So, keep in mind when you do your draft research, to pay attention to a prospect's relative athleticism and height/weight combo among other factors.

I insist that when you do draft research on linemen, take a look at http://seahawksdraft.blogspot.com/

The Seahawks also run a ZBS and look for similar linemen to the ones we look for.

Nice. I've been preaching this too. Shanahan is also successful at plucking up o-lineman from later rounds in the draft. Zone blocking don't have to necessarily be smaller, but most often are. So just picking the best offensive lineman on the board with our first overall pick doesn't necessarily bode well for our new offense. We should look at zone blocking teams and look for free agents as well. I know both Houston and Denver have guards who might hit free agency.

[MassSkinsFan]

There is an assumption by the OP that we will be a zone blocking line. Given Shanahan's comments, that isn't a sure thing. It sounds like he's going to be going with what he feels the linemen we have are good at, which he hasn't decided yet since he hasn't done his analysis.

You know - this is one of the most refreshing posts I've seen in days. Not only is it a nice one because you're right, but moreso because of its content: someone in our team's management is going to make a decision based on analysis rather than make a decision and then analyze how to get it done.

Ready, Aim, Fire instead of Ready, Fire, Miss, Aim, Fire. It's nice to see progress.

[VaBeachRedskin]

The Seahawks also run a ZBS and look for similar linemen to the ones we look for.

You do know that Ruskell resigned and that Jim Mora said that the Seahawks will move in a new direction of a man blocking scheme with powerful offensive lineman because the ZBS has been their big problem recently.

[Going Commando]

You do know that Ruskell resigned and that Jim Mora said that the Seahawks will move in a new direction of a man blocking scheme with powerful offensive lineman because the ZBS has been their big problem recently.

True dat. I wouldn't be surprised to see them take Davis with their first pick, Spiller with their other one, and Iupati with their second rounder. We won't be able to sleep long on those linemen if we want them.

[CommDownMan]

I would seriously worry about a guy making the jump from division II to the NFL. Maybe skill position players and linebackers can have a decent time with the transition, but it is extremely difficult for offensive linemen to handle the move. I'll bet Veldheer has never played against a guy who's going to the NFL. Look at how hard Chad Rinehart has struggled since entering the league and he played 1-AA. At the very least, I wouldn't expect Veldheer to start any time soon if we drafted him. The numbers make him worth considering in the 6th or 7th round but I wouldn't take him too much higher unless the scouts see something there that just absolutely blows them away. In that case, I wouldn't take him above the fourth round. There should be guys who fit in the system in that range who are already better prepared for the league.

I read he was projected in from a 4th to 6th round guy. I think it's a good pick that late, especially for a team with so many old/injured lineman. I read a few articles about how much scouts are loving him (I saw him in a mock in the 2nd round the other day).

I would still like a strong LT in the first round after a trade down a few spots. But we need depth and a second day guy (I guess 3rd day now) with these skills is worth the risk at that point.

[Veretax]

Is it up to you? There is film on the guy. I'm sure Shanahan won't be asking any input from you.

I'm a WVU fan and have seen most of the games, and at times our pass protection was very suspect against better teams. Not sure that the break downs were on Selvish Capers, but its enough to make me nervous about drafting him. Normally I'm gung ho about us drafting WV players, but Capers I think would be better inside at Guard.