MumboSauce Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I certainly don't "trust" in him...I'm just waiting for results. Have to give the man time to assemble his team and install his offense. There were some good things last season but then it turned bad, really bad. Sure there are many reasons to blame, injury, personnel, playcalling etc. Would love for him to succeed but I'm not sure he is the long term answer at HC either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 These are the same fans that had faith in Spurrier at one point. Or at least some of them did. Why not trust the 6th coach we've had thrown at us in 10 years by management that has never proven capable of winning anything either? They throw around a lot of cash. That's what really matters in the NFL, right? Just like our politicians/Government. Money fixes all problems, especially when we get to charge more in order to spend it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I certainly don't "trust" in him...I'm just waiting for results. Have to give the man time to assemble his team and install his offense. There were some good things last season but then it turned bad, really bad. Sure there are many reasons to blame, injury, personnel, playcalling etc. Would love for him to succeed but I'm not sure he is the long term answer at HC either. Yeah, thats pretty much how I feel too. I was thinking about going to profootballreference and getting some stats for first year coaches and how their offenses fared. I'm sure they are similar stats to Zorn's first year. As much as I despised Turner, thats the last time I remember our offense being any good. I think our ultimate problems then was a lack of ability to use our draft picks well, a piss poor defense, and Turner's inability to motivate players. The jury's still out on the draft picks under Zorn, but we've got a lot younger and more talented team right now (than Turner had when he took over) because of success under Gibbs with the few draft picks we had as well as the UDFAs and even regular free agent success we've had. Plus we're counting on our defense to lead us this year, which is in stark contrast to our defense that couldn't stop the run in the 1990's and could only get by on Green and whoever else being good against the pass. (Bend but don't break until we collapsed). So in two areas, we're better than Turner's teams. Those teams were always on the brink of being a playoff team. The question becomes how does Zorn's offense compare to Turner's? Turner came in with a reputation of being an offensive genius, and at times he showed that here in DC. Zorn has yet to show anything close to competent, let alone genius. And Zorn seems to be more aggressive than Turner's "well, uh" type attitude. Hopefully that results in Zorn keeping control of the team more than Turner was able to in those late season collapses. We'll have to see, but if Zorn can show himself to be at least competent, then he may be our best coach since Gibbs - not saying much though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B&G808 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Trust Zorn? UGHHHHHHHHHH! NO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregpeck99 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I don't think I would buy a used car from him ... ask me again after the Steelers game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theTruthTeller Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 These are the same fans that had faith in Spurrier at one point. Or at least some of them did. Why not trust the 6th coach we've had thrown at us in 10 years by management that has never proven capable of winning anything either? I have to admit that I thought Spurrier would be a winner. He had a track record as a head coach which included destitute teams like Duke. Zorn really doesn't have a lot to recommend himself as a head coach - QB coach for a Head Coach known to be a great evaluator of QB talent. And no prospect of moving up in Seattle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I trust him as a QB coach. I have seen improvement (or at least a huge change) in our favorite QB since he began teaching him. I'm sure most of you wont agree so lets not get into a spitting match over the whole QB thing...please. Outside of that though, im honestly not very happy with him. The team didn't look prepared at all for the ravens game. I know it was just pre-season but 0 doesnt look good on anyone's resume. And im pretty sure I have heard him say in an interview that his plays where not the problem last year and he wont change them. I dont really like to hear that. On the bright side I do believe he is the first head coach since Gibbs to have a winning record in his first season with us. As a matter of fact, Gibbs went 8-8 in his first year and a couple after that we where world champs for the first time. So, a man can dream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowledge316 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 honestly, i don't see the WCO; it seems like the same offense we've been running for the past 4-5 years; we don't throw deep, we don't throw intermediate, we barely throw anything beyond the LOS; i thought WCO was quick hitting plays but what he's running seems like a standard offense, running on 1st and 2nd, and praying for a completion on 3rd to convert he doesn't make adjustments and i agree with others that he does overanalyze things instead of fixing the issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 It's funny, people defend Gibbs to their death but then want to question Zorn? Neither coach in recent history did anything prolific on offense. If you had faith in Gibbs you should have faith in Zorn. If you didn't have faith in Gibbs....run...and fast. Zorn's offense is much like Gibbs II. Be safe, don't try anything the least bit risky, and definitely don't step out of the box and do anything revlotionary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedinBurgNGold Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Nah, don't trust him fully yet. He has to show he has some balls in his playcalling first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor 36 Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 On the bright side I do believe he is the first head coach since Gibbs to have a winning record in his first season with us. As a matter of fact, Gibbs went 8-8 in his first year and a couple after that we where world champs for the first time. So, a man can dream We didn't have a winning season; we were 8-8. Marty was able to do the same thing in his one season here. The big difference between Gibbs and Marty, and now Zorn, is that both Gibbs and Marty started 0-5 and won 8 of their last eleven games to break even. Zorn on the other hand lost seven of his last eleven to fall to an even record. That doesn't leave a great taste in my mouth, or any confidence for me when I look ahead to this season. Gibbs may have won it all his second year, but honestly, I would just be ecstatic if we made the playoffs this year with our offense contributing, rather than just riding the defense's coat tails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Taylor36; I think your signature should be a picture of Zorn, not Campbell. Regardless, it is a reflection of Zorn, and rightfully so. Sure he inherited a fleet of small WR's, but they are supposed to excel in the WCO. Zorn implemented a new offense on Jason. Zorn changed his mechanics. Zorn doesnt let him use the shotgun nor go hurry up, nor roll him out. And doesnt use that big huge arm but once or twice a game, way to infrequent to expect any success deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 We didn't have a winning season; we were 8-8. Marty was able to do the same thing in his one season here. The big difference between Gibbs and Marty, and now Zorn, is that both Gibbs and Marty started 0-5 and won 8 of their last eleven games to break even. Zorn on the other hand lost seven of his last eleven to fall to an even record. That doesn't leave a great taste in my mouth, or any confidence for me when I look ahead to this season.Gibbs may have won it all his second year, but honestly, I would just be ecstatic if we made the playoffs this year with our offense contributing, rather than just riding the defense's coat tails. If Gibbs II left a good taste in your mouth, than so should Zorn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B&GBlood Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 How dare you commit blasphemy against The Zorn!He will chop you up and cook you for breakfast. You wait, pal! I think you mean he will turn him into granola and eat him for a snack whilst mountain biking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gutlead74 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Flat out NO. Zorn has not earned it yet, however I see alot of positives from and about him. I want to trust im, I think he is a good coach, but he hasnt earned my trust yet. It still bothers me that he went from position coach to head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor 36 Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 If Gibbs II left a good taste in your mouth, than so should Zorn. I was referring to Gibbs I. Gibbs II was frustrating, but we usually ended the season on a high note, and were able to see the postseason twice. My point about Gibbs in the OP was that I could understand people believing in him and trusting him to get things done, even with the frustrations we had with the offense, because he at least had a resume to prove he had actually accomplished winning as a coach. Zorn doesn't have that, nor has he shown to me, as much as I'm sure it means to any one else, that he is capable of winning to this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor 36 Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 Flat out NO. Zorn has not earned it yet, however I see alot of positives from and about him. I want to trust im, I think he is a good coach, but he hasnt earned my trust yet. It still bothers me that he went from position coach to head coach. I'm curious about the positives you have seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gutlead74 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I'm curious about the positives you have seen. the Skins actually started off well (after NYG game). the O moved well, they were punching in Tds running the bal well, moving through the air well. Jason did improve as well. not a whole lot of penalties, or turnovers... these are associated with good coaching. I am not ready to bury him or crown him....I guess you could say I am medium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Here are some teams that were shut out in the preseason. The Chiefs(2-14), Bengals(4-11-1), and Raiders(5-11) were all shut out in week 3 of last year's preseason. The Dolphins(1-15) were shut out in week 4 of the 2007 preseason. The Chiefs(9-7) were shut out in week 2 of the 2006 preseason. The Redskins(5-11) were shut out in week 3 of the 2006 preseason. The Colts(14-2) were shut out in Week 4 of the 2005 preseason. The Falcons(11-5) and Cowboys(6-10) were shut out in week 1 of the 2004 preseason. The Dolphins(4-12) were shut out in week 2 of the 2004 preseason. The Falcons(11-5) and Patriots(14-2) were shut out in week 4 of the 2004 preseason. The Packers(10-6) were shut out in HOF Game of the 2003 preseason. The Redskins(5-11) and Cowboys(10-6) were shut out in week 1 of the 2003 preseason. The Buccs(7-9) were shut out in week 3 of the 2003 preseason. So overall, teams that were shut out between the years 2003 and 2008 have a record of (118-137) for an average of between (7-9) and (8-8). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor 36 Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 the Skins actually started off well (after NYG game). the O moved well, they were punching in Tds running the bal well, moving through the air well. Jason did improve as well. not a whole lot of penalties, or turnovers... these are associated with good coaching. I am not ready to bury him or crown him....I guess you could say I am medium. Fair enough. I guess I just see the collapse at the end of the season to be more telling of his coaching abilities than the early success he had before there was much known about his offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B&GBlood Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Nah, don't trust him fully yet. He has to show he has some balls in his playcalling first. I think in the early part of last year, he definitely did some unorthodox and gutsy things with his play calling. As the year wore on, and with adversity, he seemed to tighten up and turn on the conservatism. I think that is a part of growing and learning. Early on with nothing to lose, and no expectations, you can be loose and free. Once they started winning...it was a different story. There are other intangibles to play calling too...like confidence in injured players, etc. It should be interesting to see how he has grown as a play caller after only one year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor 36 Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 Here are some teams that were shut out in the preseason. ...So overall, teams that were shut out between the years 2003 and 2008 have a record of (118-137) for an average of between (7-9) and (8-8). Good stuff. Thanks. I think it is telling that out of the four teams that were able to have decent/good seasons after suffering a preseason shut out, three had future HOF QB's leading them (P.Manning, Brady, Favre). The rest of those teams had bad, if not miserable, seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsdomination09 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Yep. Theres no way an 8-8 team could ever win the division. Or a team could win six superbowls. Or throw 50 TD's. Many stats, ESPECIALLY,Preseason stats dont mean shet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I was referring to Gibbs I. Gibbs II was frustrating, but we usually ended the season on a high note, and were able to see the postseason twice.My point about Gibbs in the OP was that I could understand people believing in him and trusting him to get things done, even with the frustrations we had with the offense, because he at least had a resume to prove he had actually accomplished winning as a coach. Zorn doesn't have that, nor has he shown to me, as much as I'm sure it means to any one else, that he is capable of winning to this point. Depends what side of the fence you are on. Gibbs II left us with Gibbs II roster. He eeked into the playoffs and never fielded a championship caliber team. Zorn inherited that. An aging offensive line, aging defensive line, an unproven QB, 1 receiver who when healthy can get the job done. Linebackers and corners with question marks. Then you ask Zorn to take over and try and make Campbell, a QB who by the way Gibbs had no faith in, a franchise QB...make an offensive line that had high salary cap numbers and age work...and no receivers to make any QB proud. Then you want to have faith in a coach that had literally no imprint on his roster...and wonder why he can't win? Not sure if I should have faith in Zorn, I do know he wasn't left with the poker hand some make him out to have received. This team was not built correctly, if Zorn can pull anything remotely tied to a playoff birth, I think we should have faith in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Good stuff. Thanks.I think it is telling that out of the four teams that were able to have decent/good seasons after suffering a preseason shut out, three had future HOF QB's leading them (P.Manning, Brady, Favre). The rest of those teams had bad, if not miserable, seasons. Thats not quite true. Look at the Cowboys, Falcons, and Chiefs for examples to the contrary. I think the Cowboys example is the best because they had Quincy Carter as their QB. I'm of the opinion that Campbell last year is better than Carter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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