Thinking Skins Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Yep. Theres no way an 8-8 team could ever win the division. Or a team could win six superbowls. Or throw 50 TD's.Many stats, ESPECIALLY,Preseason stats dont mean ****. profanity filter's there for a reason. But I think you're wrong as the Chargers won their division last year with a record of 8-8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 profanity filter's there for a reason. But I think you're wrong as the Chargers won their division last year with a record of 8-8. Uhhh I think you missed the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Uhhh I think you missed the point. aah, I get it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor 36 Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 Depends what side of the fence you are on. Gibbs II left us with Gibbs II roster. He eeked into the playoffs and never fielded a championship caliber team. Zorn inherited that. An aging offensive line, aging defensive line, an unproven QB, 1 receiver who when healthy can get the job done. Linebackers and corners with question marks.Then you ask Zorn to take over and try and make Campbell, a QB who by the way Gibbs had no faith in, a franchise QB...make an offensive line that had high salary cap numbers and age work...and no receivers to make any QB proud. Then you want to have faith in a coach that had literally no imprint on his roster...and wonder why he can't win? Not sure if I should have faith in Zorn, I do know he wasn't left with the poker hand some make him out to have received. This team was not built correctly, if Zorn can pull anything remotely tied to a playoff birth, I think we should have faith in him. I would have to argue that Gibbs left a better roster than what he received from Spurrier. But, I see your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I would have to argue that Gibbs left a better roster than what he received from Spurrier. But, I see your point. Yeah and Gibbs had carte blanche and got whatever he wanted. Zorn was thankful to be a head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor 36 Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 Yep. Theres no way an 8-8 team could ever win the division. Or a team could win six superbowls. Or throw 50 TD's.Many stats, ESPECIALLY,Preseason stats dont mean shet. Not sure why any of that matters, but, since you went there, if you believe that an 8-8 record is going to be good enough to win the NFC East, or that JC is going to go from a career high 13 TD's to 50 in a season, you're crazy. I have no idea where six super bowls came in, but since it was accomplished for the first time in 43 years this past February, and since we only have three SB wins as a franchise, that comment has nothing to do with our team, never mind this thread. So, your entire post lost me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor 36 Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 Yeah and Gibbs had carte blanche and got whatever he wanted. Zorn was thankful to be a head coach. So, are you saying that you think Zorn is a better coach than what we have seen to this point? I realize the guy has only had one year, but do you see promise in his coaching, despite the personnel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 So, are you saying that you think Zorn is a better coach than what we have seen to this point? I realize the guy has only had one year, but do you see promise in his coaching, despite the personnel? No based on his play calling, I see him as too conservative and unwilling to take a risk....much like Gibbs II...which on my side of the fence = not very promising for success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor 36 Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 No based on his play calling, I see him as too conservative and unwilling to take a risk....much like Gibbs II...which on my side of the fence = not very promising for success. That's how I see it/feel. However, there have been A LOT of posters on ES that have posted that they "trust Zorn" or "Zorn knows best" or "I'll trust Zorn's decision" etc. So, I'm wondering why these posters trust him. Not surprisingly, none of them have posted an answer yet, and we're almost on page 5 of the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backpack3r Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 profanity filter's there for a reason. But I think you're wrong as the Chargers won their division last year with a record of 8-8. Relax dude, that is the 2nd time you called someone out for cussing. Its not that serious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickyshooZ Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 My trust in him is waning, but I'm trying to be open-minded and wait out the whole season. I like the guy personally, and I feel that there is more to the team than just him but there are still several question marks surrounding his coaching ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Do I TRUST Zorn? Nope. I question his ability to be an offensive coordinator, much less a head coach in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 That's how I see it/feel. However, there have been A LOT of posters on ES that have posted that they "trust Zorn" or "Zorn knows best" or "I'll trust Zorn's decision" etc. So, I'm wondering why these posters trust him. Not surprisingly, none of them have posted an answer yet, and we're almost on page 5 of the thread. They trust Zorn because he started out 6-2 with some good wins and is a likeable guy. Personally I see him as a lame duck coach stuck with players he might not have chosen to run his system. Doesn't make him a bad coach though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor 36 Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 Relax dude, that is the 2nd time you called someone out for cussing. Its not that serious Actually, it is. You should read the forum rules before you get banned for something "not that serious." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Actually, it is. You should read the forum rules before you get banned for something "not that serious." Pretty good advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 A 2-6 start and 6-2 finish would earn a lot more trust that what actually happened. Zorn will be no more trusted by Redskins fans than Wade Phillips is by :puke:fans. That is, until he actually starts winning more December games than he loses. I seriously doubt we will be seeing that happen, but of course, we could somehow have no OL injuries, no Moss late season hamstrings, no Portis dingage, and maybe even Collins replacing Campbell to win the majority of our late season games. Anything can happen but that doesn't mean it's likely and there is absolutely no way that I trust that Zorn will have this team winning games despite the type of injuries that teams like the Eagles, Patriots, and Steelers win through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Unlike most fans, I concentrate on what I feel is the most important factor in evaluating a head coach -- his basic strategy for the offense and defense. Gibbs had a sound one in his glory years, but when he tried the same approach in his second tour, it bombed. The game had moved on. Jim Zorn has a sound basic strategy for today's game, a ball control team with emphasis on the passing game. And, he seems to realize that he has to get Greg Blache on the same page with an aggressive defensive strategy that makes it difficult for the opponent to control the ball with emphasis on their passing game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Jim Zorn has a sound basic strategy for today's game, a ball control team with emphasis on the passing game. Strategy is only half of the battle. Zorns problem is his personnel don't match his strategy, but Zorn wont change his approach, so his personnel continue with the same mistakes. I judge a coach by his strategy AND his ability to adapt it to his team. Zorn has shown no ability to adapt or make adjustments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Strategy is only half of the battle.Zorns problem is his personnel don't match his strategy, but Zorn wont change his approach, so his personnel continue with the same mistakes. I judge a coach by his strategy AND his ability to adapt it to his team. Zorn has shown no ability to adapt or make adjustments. The personnel Z inherited didn't fit anybody's strategy. Campbell, for example, was selected by Gibbs to run his obsolete scheme. What choice did Z have but to try to make Jason into a WCO QB? There was nothing to lose. He has given the kid a chance to succeed when he had zero chance before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.T.real,lights,out Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Thats a great question. And i kept saying to myself over the off-season it's going to be ok, Trust Zorn. But after seeing our 'o' in the game Thursday it still looks like we are going to have the same problems. So idk what to tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 The personnel Z inherited didn't fit anybody's strategy. Campbell, for example, was selected by Gibbs to run his obsolete scheme. What choice did Z have but to try to make Jason into a WCO QB? There was nothing to lose. He has given the kid a chance to succeed when he had zero chance before. Hence my post earlier in this thread. Jim Zorn is a lame duck coach. He had no choice but to try and put square pegs into round holes. Most of the time that doesn't work. If he can pull this rabbit from a hat, he truly will show himself to be adept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 In general I am not overly critical, I don't love everything about JC, Cerrato, Snyder but I don't routinely hammer them like some on the board, sometimes I even defend them. When I do occassional hammer Zorn, I got nailed by certain people on the board like he's untouchable. Personally, am not sure about Zorn as a HC, seems like a great guy as a person, but as a HC there are definitely things I don't like which I've pointed out at length on different posts. I believe the main thing that works for him on this board are the intense Campbell haters and Cerrato ones. For the Campbell haters it flows much easier to say that Zorn is perfectly fine and Campbell is the cause of all ills. If you buy the premise that Zorn could be an issue, it weakens the anti-Campbell one some -- and some of the anti-Campbell posters are practically zealots on that issue so for them it pays to prop up Zorn. Cerrato ditto. Ala Cerrato just doesn't give him the tools. To say that Zorn is the issue in a way props Cerrato in some people's eyes becuase to a degree it implies that Zorn has the talent to succeed, he just doesn't do it. So those are my best guesses. Not that I think Zorn is some kind of disaster but it really surprises me how not only is he given a complete pass by so many but also how rabid some people are when you question him. As you pointed out besides his pedegree as a QB coach, what is it about Zorn's background that makes him unimpeachable? He's unproven both as a play caller and as a HC and while I agree we shouldn't just throw him under the bus for anything that goes wrong, conversely why shouldn't he be a variable in the team's success or for that matter failures? He's the HC, doesn't the HC have some responsibility? Again doesn't per se mean just for bad things that happen, could be good things, pretty much everything -- especially this HC who wears so many hats. Edit: And though this probably reads as a shot as Zorn, I don't intend it to be my main point is I don't see how on ANY team the HC should be given a pass as being a factor in a team's successes and failures. There are things I actually like better about Zorn coming into this season, he seems to be sharper in press conferences, and I loved how he actually said in the last one that maybe he needs to call a better game. Personally, I like to see some humility out of him as opposed to the players are the problem drill from last season. Maybe the players are the problem but it just comes across to me a bit smug when you are the head coach and hold no responsibility for losses. But that's me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 He's got some growing pains to go through, but I think he will get it. I like that Snyderatto was patient with him after last season. I like that we built up our Defense last off season, because that was the most stable part of our team. Now, 2 years together on the offense, if we find pieces we really need for Zorns system to really come together, next year, we can really focus on that. If I didn't know better, I would say we are on at least a 3 year plan. Unless something catastrophic happens this season, Zorn will be back next year. I also don't worry about the fire for one preseason game. We had it last year, we will have it when it matters this season too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Hence my post earlier in this thread. Jim Zorn is a lame duck coach. He had no choice but to try and put square pegs into round holes. Most of the time that doesn't work. If he can pull this rabbit from a hat, he truly will show himself to be adept. I think you need to remember that Dan and Vinny made the choice to go WCO. Furthermore, they signalled that they realized that the personnel didn't fit when they brought in three rookie receivers who did fit the scheme. They knew in advance that Zorn would have problems putting it together in year one, so this "lame duck" theory doesn't make much sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecrab Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 It all goes back to the firing of Gregg Williams and Al Saunders. They proved that Al Saunders offense worked with the right QB and our defense was stout. With a new Head Coach, who was hired to be an Offensive Coordinator and players that don't fit the WCO system, the Redskins will be lucky to get 8 wins this season and then the owner will fire everyone...again and we'll be starting all over...again. It's a vicious cycle with this owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.