Shanny to Skins in 2010?

[SkinsFan203]

i cannot see Snyder staying on the sidelines as multiple big name coaches re enter the NFL after next season.. coaches like Shanahan, Holmgren, Cowher, and the infamous Chucky are all making noises about returning to the coaching ranks.

plus guys like Weis and Pete Carroll are always possibles to return to the NFL.. especially given the disparity between top coaching salaries inthe NCAA versus the NFL

for Zorn to return, i think the team not only needs to make the playoffs, but might have

to actually win a playoff game. plus, there is no way Campbell will be returning unless the team does exactly that. so, for Zorn to return without Campbell it would mean that zorn would get 1 more year with either Brennan, or some other new starter.. that simply wont happen. we went through the same ridiculous dance with Zorn accepting the HC job with a number 1 qb already in place.. only the Redskins could conceive of doing the same thing twice in less than 5 years by letting Zorn pick his own qb, and then foisting that guy on the next HC... relax, that wont happen.

what will likely happen is that BOTH Zorn and Campbell with not be returning after the end of the 2009 season..Snyder will avoid the spectacle of the Redskin franchise twisting in the wind while prospective candidates sniff the offer and dance off with other teams. after paying lip service to the Rooney Rule, we will see another HC named in about 1 week after the season officially ends.

my guess would be Shanahan based upon the connection between Cerrato and Shanahan that goes back to the Niners. also, i cannot see either Cowher or Holmgren tolerating Cerrato, so Shanahan would be the least bloody transition and for that reason i would expect Vinny to push hard for him to protect his own backside.

but, no matter who it is, he will be in place before anyone knows what meteor has struck Redskin Park.

this will be followed by a purging of much of the roster of older players-- especially if there is an uncapped year. Snyder will dump contracts right and left, and this will resemble 1981 with an influx of new players under a new HC.. yes, we have already given up our 3rd and 6th rounders for the next draft, but the defense has already started the youth transition and will be built around a core of players like Haynesworth, Hall, Barnes, Horton, Landry. Orakpo, Jarmon, Moore, Rogers, and hopefully, the 2 linebackers from the 09 draft.

the offense will be rapidly purged of older, declining players and that is where the influx of youth will come, surrounding whoever is selected as the next starting QB.. and that selection will be made by the new HC.. more reason why it wont be Cowher, but rather an Offensive coach.. if i were ranking them in probabilities i would put it

Shanahan

Weis (if Bellichick got redemption his second time in a better situation, why not Weis

who played a big role in Brady's development and also has a ND connection ??)

Gruden (is not a HC who wants to be GM)

Holmgren (not likely to want to head east again, and would be seen a stabbing a

former assitant inthe back)

one thing i DONT see Snyder doing is going the route of Coordinator again. he want to hit the ground running and no learning curves will be permitted this time around.

that would mitigate a little against Weis, but he has been a HC in college

in short, Zorn wins big in 2009, or he is a QB coach somewhere else in 2010. i think the equation is that simple....

If you are wrong (which i believe to be true), you just wasted 20 minutes of your life and like 3 minutes of mine.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

LKB, in my mind, Campbell has until the bye week. If the Redskins are below .500 and the offense is struggling, I think its Colt time. Even if we're above .500 but we're winning largely on the defense's efforts, things will be interesting.

If the switch is made and then we go through growing pains with Colt for the rest of the season, I hope its not held against Zorn and he's given at least another year. It would be nice if Zorn was able to work with a QB that he had a role in choosing.

I know we think that coaches only worry about the next game. But somewhere in Zorn's mind, there has got to be a thought that says, "If they are bringing in a new QB next year, they might want to bring in a new coach too. I need to get ahead of this issue."

It really could be a matter of whether Zorn and Campbell hang together or hang separately.

I've said before that having a QB in his last year of a contract with no real succession plan is very strange.

[Arsenic]

Since the year 1996 when Holmgren won the superbowl with the Packers, three head coaches, Brian Billick, Bill Cowher and Mike Tomlin, won superbowls on their first head coaching stints. I'd say other people's "trash" has worked in the head coaching department. Generalizing is bad for you.

• Billick was an Assistant coach in Minnesota, before becoming the 2nd head coach in Ravens history.

• Cowher succeeded Chuck Noll, after being a Defensive Coordinator for Shotty in Cleveland.

• Tomlin replaced Cowher, after being a Defensive Coordinator for Brad Childress in Minnesota.

None of the Coaches, you named, had been a Head Coach anywhere before being hired for their HC job. (Remember I said HC?)

Therefore, your reply is completely irrelevant to my point that we shouldn't hire "Other Peoples Trash". I realize that I didn't define the quoted text well enough and apologize for any confusion I may have caused to you.

Generalizing is bad for you.

I dont see where this sentence was necessary. I appreciate your concern. However, please make a note that generalizing is, infact, not bad for me at all. I'm unsure what may have led you to that conclusion. I'm left to believe that this was simply a smart comment used in attempt to be cool. Still have that note pad out? Please make another note that a-holes aren't cool. Nobody likes 'em, you just think they do.

I hope I've been helpful!

I'll try my best not to be so general. In return, you can work on that a-hole thing.

Hail!

[Oldfan]

Campbell's contract situation is going to be an albatross this season' date=' I fear.

Hear me out.

Campbell probably gives the team the best chance to win now. But if they don't win, Cambpell is gone. And if Campbell goes, Zorn probably goes with him.

However, Zorn might think that his best chance of coming back in 2010 is to jump on the Colt bandwagon early and make the argument, "I need two years to develop this kid."

I also think you have misjudged Snyder. I think he wants control and continuity with a plan. I think Zorn stays unless he totally screws up.

Then again, if Colt starts, the team might end up 6-10 and Zorn might still be fired.

Zorn is going to have decided early in the season whether he wants his futured tied to Jason Campbell's success.[/quote']

You are thinking like a typical coach with job security as his prime motive. I'd bet that Jim Zorn doesn't think like that. I think he'll do what he thinks is best for the team and let the chips fall as they may.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

You are thinking like a typical coach with job security as his prime motive. I'd bet that Jim Zorn doesn't think like that. I think he'll do what he thinks is best for the team and let the chips fall as they may.

I'm sure he believes that Of, he strikes me as an honest, integral dude in that respect. But then on his time to date, I'm not optimistic Zorn ever will make the best decisions for the team, whatever he believes he's doing.

I appreciate the need to be single minded as a HC and believe fully in what your ideas are, but he's way too dogmatic to have any reluctance to change when things pertinently aren't working for my liking and has an uncanny knack of blaming everyone bar himself there in, which is never a good trait, particularly in a HC with no track record looking to gain the respect of his players.

Hail.

[BuryYourDuke]

unless the Skins go 0-16 Zorn isn't going anywhere

Snyder took a chance with Zorn, and he will give him time to prove himself, at least 3 years IMO

Come on Bubba...you don't think 1-15, 2-14, 3-13, 4-12, or even 5-11 gets him fired after last season's collapse? If we don't finish with a winning record the Zorn-Campbell party is over.

[Voice_of_Reason]

You're completely right Bubba. I remember on local news around here (DC area) there were reporters camped out front of Redskins Park for the 2+ days that Snyder and Marty were in negotiations because Snyder wanted Marty to stay. Marty knew he would get paid no matter what, so he forced Snyder's hand.

I remember that Snyder wanted Spurrier, who was the guy who Snyder had coveted a year earlier anyway.

One way or the other, he forced Marty out. Which was a mistake.

Fired/forced out, whatever, it's all semantics. Fact is, Marty had a contract, and one way or another, it was terminated.

But it was the last person Snyder forced out. And that was in 2001. So you're overall point has merit. He hasn't fired a ton of coaches.

[shallyshal]

just to keep the pot boiling..lol

shanny was quoted at espn today as saying he wanted to get back into coaching in 2010.....

[redshirtguy#45]

IF this did happen.... does it bother anyone that mike s lead teams have won 1 playoff game without elway/davis?

[Toe Jam]

IF this did happen.... does it bother anyone that mike s lead teams have won 1 playoff game without elway/davis?

Bothers me.

I don't think we'll have to worry about it, though. I got a feeling Zorn and Co. will put on quite a show this year. And, unlike last year, they'll finish both acts.

[Voice_of_Reason]

IF this did happen.... does it bother anyone that mike s lead teams have won 1 playoff game without elway/davis?

What would bother me is if they gave him complete control. He's a heck of a football coach, specifically offensive coach, and it's the same basic scheme they are running now (Holmgren and Shannahan are both off of the Walsh tree) so the transition wouldn't be terrible.

BUT. He's been an AWFUL GM. Just terrible. He had complete control in Denver, and it just didn't work. They could never get good defensive players. Hell, they were the joke of the league for a while because they kept on picking up Cleveland Brown re-treads. Which was a head shocker.

I would hope that this wouldn't happen, because it would mean that Zorn is doing a good job and keeping his job, but if it did, I would hope that they wouldn't give him full control of anything, except his parking spot.

[redshirtguy#45]

Bothers me.

I don't think we'll have to worry about it, though. I got a feeling Zorn and Co. will put on quite a show this year. And, unlike last year, they'll finish both acts.

we shall see real soon how it goes.

[redshirtguy#45]

What would bother me is if they gave him complete control. He's a heck of a football coach, specifically offensive coach, and it's the same basic scheme they are running now (Holmgren and Shannahan are both off of the Walsh tree) so the transition wouldn't be terrible.

BUT. He's been an AWFUL GM. Just terrible. He had complete control in Denver, and it just didn't work. They could never get good defensive players. Hell, they were the joke of the league for a while because they kept on picking up Cleveland Brown re-treads. Which was a head shocker.

I would hope that this wouldn't happen, because it would mean that Zorn is doing a good job and keeping his job, but if it did, I would hope that they wouldn't give him full control of anything, except his parking spot.

IF zorn goes, i hope its not mike that comes in... mike smoked tons of folks, basically blaming them for the post elway/davis lack of success. that isnt the type of guy i would want here (buck passer).

[Santana_89]

IF this did happen.... does it bother anyone that mike s lead teams have won 1 playoff game without elway/davis?

Only if Synder seriously considers him for the head coaching job be it 2010 or 2019. MS seems like a nice guy and all, but I'm not sold on him as a head coach.

[Toe Jam]

Only if Synder seriously considers him for the head coaching job be it 2010 or 2019. MS seems like a nice guy and all, but I'm not sold on him as a head coach.

Me neither. I don't think he "fits" here either.

You have to consider that he really was not that succesful in Denver. I know the fans there will swear by him for eternity but I'm not convinced.

When I lived out there, there was that minority of fans that didn't like him but they were very, very vocal about it. Essentially, I think 90% of the Broncos fan base were homers afraid of change.

[Voice_of_Reason]

When I lived out there, there was that minority of fans that didn't like him but they were very, very vocal about it. Essentially, I think 90% of the Broncos fan base were homers afraid of change.

He was the HC for 2 SB wins. And he got them with Elway, sure, but it wasn't the Elway of the late 80's early 90's. I'm pretty sure that I would prefer to stick with a proven comodoty rather than ventrue into the unknown. Hell, you could get the next Norv Turner after Gibbs. (Granted, there was a guy in between. But he wasn't very succesful either.)

If you have a guy who you think is SB level coach, you don't chuck him aside lightly, because you could be looking for a replacement for a LONG time.

Riddle me this: Let's say Gibbs stayed on another 5 years instead of resigning after the 1992 season, and they either missed the playoffs or didn't win a game in the playoffs, after the 1992 season. How many folks would be really quick to chuck him out the door 6 years removed from the 1991 SB team? I would hazard, not many. This is hard to put into perspective in the aftermath of Gibbs 2.0. But pretend that never happened. Pretend that it was one long tenure, which included 4 SB appearances, 3 victories, another NFC championship appearance, and then 5 bum years at the end. Would you really want to chuck him out to go with an unknown? I don't think so.

[redshirtguy#45]

check this: http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=357&contentID=415

some of my fav lines:

"One of the most brilliant minds in football, Shanahan is the lightning rod for the Denver Broncos’ championship history, and few coaches in NFL annals have spearheaded as much dramatic achievement."

"Under Shanahan’s superb guidance, the Broncos have had staggering team accomplishments since 1995, the scope of which is dramatically outlined by the following:"

"However, whether measured by record or tenure, Shanahan does not rest on his laurels, nor allow his team to even though in the past 13 seasons his overall record of accomplishment has been unmatched. His accomplishments since taking command of the Broncos are far greater than most coaches have achieved in entire careers,"

for a guy who has coached a team to 8 playoff wins in 16 seasons, 7 of which came in 2 SB runs, i think they are overstating his accomplishments just a weee bit. its like den never made say, 3 SBs in the prior 10 years or anything...

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

He was the HC for 2 SB wins. And he got them with Elway, sure, but it wasn't the Elway of the late 80's early 90's. I'm pretty sure that I would prefer to stick with a proven comodoty rather than ventrue into the unknown. Hell, you could get the next Norv Turner after Gibbs. (Granted, there was a guy in between. But he wasn't very succesful either.)

If you have a guy who you think is SB level coach, you don't chuck him aside lightly, because you could be looking for a replacement for a LONG time.

Riddle me this: Let's say Gibbs stayed on another 5 years instead of resigning after the 1992 season, and they either missed the playoffs or didn't win a game in the playoffs, after the 1992 season. How many folks would be really quick to chuck him out the door 6 years removed from the 1991 SB team? I would hazard, not many. This is hard to put into perspective in the aftermath of Gibbs 2.0. But pretend that never happened. Pretend that it was one long tenure, which included 4 SB appearances, 3 victories, another NFC championship appearance, and then 5 bum years at the end. Would you really want to chuck him out to go with an unknown? I don't think so.

It took 10 years of mediocrity before Steeler fans started to turn on Chuck Noll. And even then, he left by his own accord.

Hell, Billick rode that one Super Bowl win through six or seven uneven seasons.

Once you win a Super Bowl, you seem to get - at the very least - a four-year window.

[zoony]

i cannot see Snyder staying on the sidelines as multiple big name coaches re enter the NFL after next season.. coaches like Shanahan, Holmgren, Cowher, and the infamous Chucky are all making noises about returning to the coaching ranks.

....

Wow, a blast from my WP Forums past. Great to hear from you Shally

[mcarey032]

It took 10 years of mediocrity before Steeler fans started to turn on Chuck Noll. And even then' date=' he left by his own accord.

Hell, Billick rode that one Super Bowl win through six or seven uneven seasons.

Once you win a Super Bowl, you seem to get - at the very least - a four-year window.[/quote']

Very true. Although I would say that Barry Switzer didn't get that luxury of the four year grace period.

[veteranskinsfan]

What would bother me is if they gave him complete control. He's a heck of a football coach, specifically offensive coach, and it's the same basic scheme they are running now (Holmgren and Shannahan are both off of the Walsh tree) so the transition wouldn't be terrible.

BUT. He's been an AWFUL GM. Just terrible. He had complete control in Denver, and it just didn't work. They could never get good defensive players. Hell, they were the joke of the league for a while because they kept on picking up Cleveland Brown re-treads. Which was a head shocker.

I would hope that this wouldn't happen, because it would mean that Zorn is doing a good job and keeping his job, but if it did, I would hope that they wouldn't give him full control of anything, except his parking spot.

You don't have to worry that they might make Shanahan the GM. Snyder thinks he and Vinnie are co-General Managers and that will not change.

[Gigantor]

what will likely happen is that BOTH Zorn and Campbell with not be returning after the end of the 2009 season..Snyder will avoid the spectacle of the Redskin franchise twisting in the wind while prospective candidates sniff the offer and dance off with other teams. after paying lip service to the Rooney Rule, we will see another HC named in about 1 week after the season officially ends.

I agree, Zorn won't survive the NFC East with the dink-n-donk WCO, he is a transitional figure.

Snyder will find the next Norv Turner, all the right techniques, submissive to the owner, not enough leadership, and we'll all be hoping high and crying late.

God, please free us from the danny!

[HRNY4ZRNY]

I vote NO... Unless we go 7-9 or under. You gotta give Zorn a chance and it would be nice to have some continuity.

[THEREALTOR1]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/11970375

"Laughter gives us distance. It allows us to step back from an event, deal with it and then move on." --Bob Newhart

On Thursday, we did just what Bob Newhart suggested. We took a step back and had a few laughs (at least some of us did). Today, we make a final decision on which unemployed Super Bowl coach the Redskins should hire. A friendly reminder to all: We are pretending to be owner Daniel Snyder as he makes this very important decision.

On a side note, do you remember going to the doctor's office as a kid? You had to wait in a lame waiting room that never had any sports magazines -- nothing that appealed to kids who were sports enthusiasts, at least not in my doctor's office. Since I couldn't find any pictures of my favorite sports heroes, I always gravitated to the Highlights magazine to work on the missing-picture puzzle (I still do today). You know the one where they had a list of things you had to find somewhere in the picture, hidden behind a rock or alongside the page. Well, Thursday's column was meant to poke fun at the Redskins' situation, a la Bob Newhart above, but there was a ton of truth on the page -- you just had to find it. I guess you could say that was our attempt to make our first Highlights puzzle.

OK, back to the Redskins. Now, when hiring a head coach, you must have a "Come to Jesus" meeting with yourself. In the case of the 'Skins, Snyder is Snyder. He's not going to change how he operates -- for anyone. He didn't pay all this money for an NFL team just to sit idly by on the sidelines as a spectator. He thinks he can run a team, he thinks he can build a team, he thinks he can general manage a team -- and that's not going to change. Not now, not after breakfast, not tomorrow, not two weeks from now, not a month from now, not ever.

A perfect example was Thursday's supplemental draft. The 'Skins once again mortgaged their future, using a 2010 pick for defensive lineman Jeremy Jarmon. I have nothing against Jarmon as a player; I'm more in the Wes Bunting camp, believing he can be a good player for the 'Skins next year. He can play all three downs and will provide depth along the line.

However, it's the plan on how to build the team that bothers me most. As long as Snyder is the owner, he's going to manage each player personnel situation as an independent item. He will never put to paper a business model of how he wants to build the 'Skins for today, for tomorrow and for the next three years. This behavior always amazes me -- a man makes billions of dollars in one business, then comes into the NFL and forgets all the good business methods that allowed him to make his fortune. Insane, right?

We know Snyder won't change; we also know that most of the five coaches we evaluated for this series have strong beliefs about how they want to set up an organization. In fairness to Snyder, he will allow all five coaches to bring in any assistant coaches they want, paying each one above the going rate. The divide will occur over the structure of the front office. That will be the point of contention for any of the five. Some will be willing to deal with the explanation Snyder might offer (Brian Billick, Jon "Love You Bro" Gruden, Mike Shanahan and maybe Mike Holmgren), others will take a "my way or the highway" approach (Bill Cowher).

This discourse over the front office is not new in Washington. It has been a recurring theme since Snyder came into the NFL. The only person he feels works best for him is Vinny Cerrato. Cerrato understands how the owner works and, more importantly, how he behaves. Cerrato was very close to Snyder's father Gerald before he passed away, so Vinny is more like family than employee. Even though there were reports (not verified) that Snyder was angry at Cerrato for not making the deal to get Jay Cutler, their relationship will continue no matter who's hired as coach.

How does all this end? When you break down the coaches as if you were Snyder, the first one off the list would be Billick. Not because he's not a good coach but because he will not generate the "star" appeal Snyder craves. Snyder loves stars and loves being around them, so the next coach he hires has to carry a little celebrity swagger.

As I mentioned, I really don't think Cowher would take the job, no matter how many dollars Snyder throws his way. For Cowher to come back, a team would have to meet certain criteria. Cowher pays attention to the NFL; he knows that when he returns, he needs the right team. He has watched other Super Bowl-winning coaches return in failed experiments -- George Seifert being the main example. Making the wrong move can hurt one's legacy. (It took former Kansas City Chiefs coach Hank Stram many years to overcome the debacle in New Orleans, which many felt kept him out of the Hall of Fame until 2003. Stram had 130 wins in his NFL career, but the last memory many had was his New Orleans stop, which almost killed his career.)

I feel like Ryan Seacrest on American Idol as he gets to the final three. Our remaining contenders are ex-49ers coaches who all have ties to Bill Walsh. Mike Shanahan, Jon "Love You Bro" Gruden and Mike Holmgren are the choices for The Daniel. Which one will he pick?

Gruden is doing Monday Night Football, and he will work with the front office set-up that Snyder has installed. He might ***** off the record to anyone and everyone about the lack of talent in Washington, but he will coach the team hard. He would want to bring in his former GM in Tampa, Bruce Allen, in some capacity, which shouldn't be a problem with Snyder.

Holmgren is smooth enough to get along with anyone, including Snyder. He has a relationship with Vinny from their days in San Francisco, and because Snyder allows the assistant coaches to be heavily involved in personnel decisions, I can see Holmgren making this work well. Holmgren would need control of the 53-man roster, but once he secured that item, I believe he has the experience to make this work.

Shanahan has a ton of money coming from the Broncos, so he can be a little picky about his next job. Had the 'Skins made the Cutler deal, this move would be a no-brainer, with or without Cerrato in the front office. FYI, Shanahan and Cerrato have a friendship from their 49ers days. Snyder has the money to pay Shanahan and the money to pay players, both important items on the Shanny checklist. In addition, Shanahan would want to hire his son, Kyle, who is an outstanding coach in Houston, as his offensive coordinator. If the control issues regarding personnel can be smoothed over, I can honestly see Shanahan and Snyder getting along.

I can see Snyder being able to sell himself to any of the three as his next head coach. He's a great salesman, much like Cowboys owner Jerry Jones, who might be looking at the same three coaches. Someone once told me that Jones is such a good salesman he could talk a cat off the top of a fish truck. The same could be said for Snyder.

Who will "The Danny" pick? My bet is Shanahan. That move would send shock waves along the I-95 corridor as the Philadelphia Eagles and New York Giants would be impressed -- and also very worried. Shanahan will be a different man when he returns. He will be energized, and he will succeed.

If Snyder makes this pick, Hail to the Redskins will be playing all the time. I can see the NFP's Ray Gustini dancing right now. ...

Michael Lombardi spent 23 years in the NFL as a high level executive and currently writes for The National Football Post.

[addicted]

After one year of Zorn I can't see why anyone wouldn't want to see Shanny here over him. Last year Zorn was outcoached by everyone in the second half of the year just about. The team collapsed big time. He had public issues and drama with players still on the team. Zorn didn't show me anything to compare to what the years of watching Shanny did. One guys an 8-8 coach and the others a Superbowl winning offensive genious. If Zorn doesn't win the devision and guide the team to the playoffs this year I hope like hell he's fired after this year and Shanny's brought in. This teams got far too much talent not to win this devision. Our Defense is dominate, our offense sucks. Shanny can fix that with a good QB.