All of those who want to get rid of Campbell

[NewCliche21]

Colt is Coach Zorn's draft pick and when JC fails again next year, Colt will be our new starting QB. Anything that happens to JC between now and then, Collins will be next in line.

Zorn has to groom his young Colt for a couple of years before throwing him into the den of wolves. By then, he'll have the WCO ingrained in his mind and will be the Redskins true "Franchise QB".

Anyway, that's how I hope it goes down. We don't need to get anybody from free agency, we have our QB's right here.

Vinnie and Little Danny better start looking for some O&D linemen in the draft and FA market next year or we are going to repeat the same pathetic scene that we are witnessing now.

You hope that Campbell fails.

I don't know why you have an account here.

[tiger187126]

Yes it is in this case, if he called the line adjustment correctly, then protection would not have broken down and Sellars would have had 1 guy to block.

our starting tackles went down

and how do you figure any of this. you know nothing, you are just blaming campbell for more and more without any evidence.

keep it piling on

[SoCalSkins]

our starting tackles went down

and how do you figure any of this. you know nothing, you are just blaming campbell for more and more without any evidence.

keep it piling on

We have not had correct line calls to pickup blitzes all year, had nothing to do with the tackles going down. The backup getting man handled by Suggs did.

JC calls the pass protection at the line in Zorn's system. The center called the protection under Gibbs and Saunders. That is how the systems operate.

[tiger187126]

We have not had correct line calls to pickup blitzes all year, had nothing to do with the tackles going down. The backup getting man handled by Suggs did.

JC calls the pass protection at the line in Zorn's system. The center called the protection under Gibbs and Saunders. That is how the systems operate.

and how do you know that the guy just didn't get beat with the right protection called?

you don't, but i remember you. you are a chronic campbell hater.

nothing you say holds merit

i've seen plenty of plays this year with one man getting beat by one man

and that has nothing to do with scheme

[SoCalSkins]

and how do you know that the guy just didn't get beat with the right protection called?

you don't, but i remember you. you are a chronic campbell hater.

nothing you say holds merit

i've seen plenty of plays this year with one man getting beat by one man

and that has nothing to do with scheme

You are a bigger Auburn/JC fan than a Skins fan, what I say holds far more merit than your blind support of JC. When he plays well, I acknowledge it. I want him to succeed and the Skins to win games, as do the vast majority of the Skins fans here.

There have been many instances where JC was sacked this year when the protection was correct. In those cases, if the QB did not hold the ball too long, then those fall on the O-line. No one is arguing that.

However, if a guy gets to the QB untouched without a lineman blocking him, then typically the protection called was not correct. JC calls out those line adjustments in this scheme and those breakdowns fall on him.

[tiger187126]

You are a bigger Auburn/JC fan than a Skins fan, what I say holds far more merit than your blind support of JC. When he plays well, I acknowledge it. I want him to succeed and the Skins to win games, as do the vast majority of the Skins fans here.

There have been many instances where JC was sacked this year when the protection was correct. In those cases, if the QB did not hold the ball too long, then those fall on the O-line. No one is arguing that.

However, if a guy gets to the QB untouched without a lineman blocking him, then typically the protection called was not correct. JC calls out those line adjustments in this scheme and those breakdowns fall on him.

how about you check out post game heroes?

this guy breaks down every play of the game and tells you exactly what happens.

the only thing i like about auburn is their underarmor uniforms.

and campbell isn't even my favorite guy on the team

once again you're grasping at straws, but you won't do the research to ever attempt to back up anything you say...you just keep flappin

[Wyvern]

Too late for this season. For better or for worse, we've got to close out the season with Campbell. After all, he's the date who we came to the 2008 dance with.

That said, I was Zorn, and Campbell ever again publically implies the coaches are too conservative, that his O-line isn't any good, and the WRs aren't trying, I'd seriously think of sitting him down. What Campbell did in that interview, was not what a franchise QB does -- you don't call out folks to the press, to take the heat off of yourself. If I were Zorn, I'd also consider sitting Campbell down should I sense that he's lost the team. The back-and-forth with Sellers may be the first symptom that Campbell is starting to lose his teams. (Hopefully not.)

But as I said, it's Campbell in 2008 and probably for at least part of 2009.

To answer the O.P's question --During the off-season, I'd trade Jason Taylor to Cincy for the rights to Ryan Fitzpatrick.. I don't think we can afford to use a 2009 first rounder on a QB; we need to trade down and get a franchise center, a good OT, and good run blocking wide-body DE in the second and third rounds.

Then in 2009 I'd open the QB competition (Campbell, Collins, Brennan, Fitzpatrick). Unless Campbell has completely regressed, I'd then dump Collins, and keep Fitzpatrick and Brennan as #2 and #3 QBs in some order. If Campbell doesn't improve early enough in 2009, and isn't willing to sign a frugal contract-- I regretfully trade him for whatever I can get -- and then trudge on with "rookie" QBs for the rest of 2009. And if Campbell instead 'blossoms' into what I'd expected as the Skins franchise QB, then I try to sign him to a good deal -- hopefully convincing him that Brennan and Fitzpatrick were hot on his heels. Meanwhile I hope the the linemen (C, OT, DE) I've drafted manage to gel before 2010 and keep my investment healthy.

Now If I have to trade Campbell, early in 2009, I probably wind up starting Fitzpatrick and keep Brennan on the bench, honing his skills.

Why Fitzpatrick? For starters, this guy is smart, and seems to pick up systems. He scored 50 on the Wonderlic-- and after seasons with the Rams and the Bengals, he knows how to operate behind a porous line. I don't know about his arm strength, but he does throw darts and scramble around. Until we rebuild our line, any QB is going to be at risk. And until our O-line gets better, do we really have a chance at a vertical game? Nope, 2009 might be about honing our WRs skills at the 'dink-&-dunk' -- and why not Fitzpatrick to do that? Brennan may prove me wrong and grab the reins early on, but I sense Fitzpatrick would be a good starter QB to get the WCO humming with the new players.

Strangely, after his time with the Rams and Bengals, Fitzpatrick might even feel being behind the Skins line was a MAJOR improvement!! And who knows, with the Skins running game and Moss, and Cooley and the Skins D and Coach Zorn -- maybe this this guy could show he's a lot better than he's been with those dismal teams.

But seriously, get used to it. Campbell has the rest of this season, the preseason, and maybe a few games into the 2009 season to convince folks he's got what it takes to be a franchise QB. But then the clock runs out on Jason and a verdict is due.

And this is not unreasonable. Four games into next season Campbell would be approaching 28 years, have played in 5 preseasons, have started around 41 games, and had been tutored by some very well-respected coaches. That's a sufficient body of work to evaluate and 3rd year patience in the NFL is rare.

Most of the great QBs (Marino, Elway, Brady, P. Manning, Palmer, maybe Cutler, etc., don't make you wait thatlong. Okay say what you want -- but I remember Joe Montana, Warren Moon, Brett Farve -- true they were somewhat slow starters, but I still don't believe Campbell has shown anything to be lumped in with that group.

After all, weren't there a few "slow starters" who never blossomed? Maybe Campbell might turn out to be one of those. (Hopefully not.)

[skinsince72]

If JC had an o-line, this thread would be stupid. Oh wait...it's stupid anyway.

I like JC, don't get me wrong. But he needs more than an Oline. He needs a quicker release, to learn not to stare down receivers, an above average running game, and recievers that run nothing but perfect routes.

I am not knocking him, but simply, he needs to be babied more than a lot of other QB's. I know i'm about to committ a sin, but.......JC is nowhere near having Romo sits to pee's scrambling/improv ability. Romo sits to pee (like Garcia) has an uncanny knack of keeping plays alive and turning them into huge gains. And do you think Romo sits to pee is more athletic than JC? I don't. So how can he do it so much better? Now, Turnover Tony (heard that today on ESPN) completely sucks when it comes to crunch time and I think JC is light years ahead of him when it comes to keeping his.

I think we will see, the more banged up or tired Portis is, the worse Campbell will play. Heck, we're seeing that now.

I just wonder how this team would be with a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady behind center? Our defense is very good now, imagine how they would be without so many 3 and outs on our offense. A pure passer with Portis in the backfield!!!!!

[tiger187126]

this offense is predicated on precise routes by the receivers, which they have not been running

that's the whole point of the WCO

it kills me when people say "he should throw it to a spot not wait until someone comes open"

if they're not in the right spot, then it's a pick more than likely

the receivers have had a big problem with this transition as well, but they're infallible

[IWANTOBEGM]

Colt is not the solution, not the solution at all.

Collins was a system QB.

Here is JC's resume.

Year one, learning behind the great Mark Brunell in Joe 2.0 Gibbs super conservative system.

Year two, still behind Brunell, new 1 million page playbook, Portis out, starts last 7 games extremely inaccurate but something is there.

Year three, finally the starter, offense has no identity as it's clear Gibbs won't let Saunders run it / trust Campbell, stats all around improve, still missing the deep ball, hurt in week 14 misses end of season.

Year Four, looks a lot better early, fans after early wins on the road at Dallas & Philly, coupled with home come from behind wins against New Orleans and Arizona start MVP talk. Offense line begins to show its age in November against 3 top 10 defenses and Campbell struggles, fans want his head on platter because he gets drilled every 5 or 7 step drop, can't run playaction because run blitzs turn into pile driving JC into ground, fans want a weak armed / never played anybody Colt Brennan to step in as QB and right the ship...

Give me a break, other teams can keep their QB's, focus draft on players who can help the Skins win in the trenches. JC will actually be in the same system for consecutive years with one person designing the scheme, it could be beautiful!

[Phixius]

He still doesn't read defense.

[kingfish50]

You hope that Campbell fails.

I don't know why you have an account here.

Not hoping he fails, knowing that he will fail. Big difference...pal.

When you become the owner of this board and don't like what I write, then you have the right as an owner to cancel my account. Until then, I'll write what I feel as long as I don't threaten anybody or use foul language. If you have a problem with that and you would like to censor everybody that doesn't agree with your line of thought, then I suggest you take it up with the mods here and try to get "censorship" enacted.

[BuddyLeeGhostHunter]

He still doesn't read defense.

...and that's why he's the QB with the least interceptions, eh?:doh:

[Ghost of]

...and that's why he's the QB with the least interceptions, eh?:doh:

When you don't take risks and throw short, you can avoid interceptions. Other guys throws lots of picks because they are trying to win games out there.

[Vicious]

You place 5 Pro Bowl lineman on our team and JC would still get sacked more than an average NFL QB in Zorn's system.

Interesting hypothesis, proof?

[eagleskins]

Campbell just flat out sucks and more excuses are made for him than any player in the history of the NFL>

[[[ghost]]]

If JC had a line, sure your excuse will be "If JC had WRs,..."

If JC had a line than JC would be playing like he did in the begnning of the season, back when our OL was into the whole pass blocking thing.

[skinsfan07]

You mean Chase Daniel (not Daniels, sorry a pet pieve)? He's good, I've watched him play live many, many times. But, he's short, but he's got a lot of heart and moves around pretty well. Not sure how how well he'll be able to see over the OL.

Not sure if he'll be much of an upgrade over Colt...

I LOVE Chase and think he'd be a perfect fit for our WCO and a great QB in the NFL. He already has experience playing with a short, speedy WR in Maclin, so Moss would be a perfect complement to him. He can make all the throws and can also hit the big guys deep, like Andrew Jones, Jared Perry, Tommy Saunders and the other speedy short guys WR's they have like Earl Goldsmith. Plus they have the best TE in the nation IMO in Chase Coffman who is much like Cooley, he can block, catch, and plays his arse off.

If we were to draft any qb at all in the first round (which I am totally against) I'd hope it would be Chase.

[BuddyLeeGhostHunter]

When you don't take risks and throw short, you can avoid interceptions. Other guys throws lots of picks because they are trying to win games out there.

When your offensive line can't block you're rather limited to take those risks.

[BuddyLeeGhostHunter]

];5919808']If JC had a line than JC would be playing like he did in the begnning of the season' date=' back when our OL was into the whole pass blocking thing.[/quote']

Exactly. People continue to back Jason Campbell because we see what he's done when he has a healthy confident offensive line.

Campbell doesn't suck, he's no Plack and that's why half see it one way and the other impatient half see it the other.

[skinsfan07]

Exactly. People continue to back Jason Campbell because we see what he's done when he has a healthy confident offensive line.

Campbell doesn't suck, he's no Plack and that's why half see it one way and the other impatient half see it the other.

Agreed. I can't wait til we have some young talent at the O-line. That makes everything so much easier.

Great example was Carolina tonight. They have a game managing QB, but have a GREAT o line and two very solid change of pace backs who get through those HUGE holes that the OL opens up for em. That's what I want to see from our offense. Holes like that for Portis and sorry Betts, but another BETTER, YOUNGER change of pace back that can help split the carries with CP.

[Ghost of]

When your offensive line can't block you're rather limited to take those risks.

So was David Carr's offensive line at fault or was it David Carr?

[Ghost of]

Agreed. I can't wait til we have some young talent at the O-line. That makes everything so much easier.

Great example was Carolina tonight. They have a game managing QB, but have a GREAT o line and two very solid change of pace backs who get through those HUGE holes that the OL opens up for em. That's what I want to see from our offense. Holes like that for Portis and sorry Betts, but another BETTER, YOUNGER change of pace back that can help split the carries with CP.

Delhomme didn't make his bone as a "game manager" but as a moderate gambler. He's a guy who got a contract by winning games out of nowhere or showing well in New Orleans.

Delhomme is a high quality QB.

[BuddyLeeGhostHunter]

So was David Carr's offensive line at fault or was it David Carr?

Both. David Carr is pretty bad.

[mrfixit28]

I like JC, don't get me wrong. But he needs more than an Oline. He needs a quicker release, to learn not to stare down receivers, an above average running game, and recievers that run nothing but perfect routes.

I am not knocking him, but simply, he needs to be babied more than a lot of other QB's. I know i'm about to committ a sin, but.......JC is nowhere near having Romo sits to pee's scrambling/improv ability. Romo sits to pee (like Garcia) has an uncanny knack of keeping plays alive and turning them into huge gains. And do you think Romo sits to pee is more athletic than JC? I don't. So how can he do it so much better? Now, Turnover Tony (heard that today on ESPN) completely sucks when it comes to crunch time and I think JC is light years ahead of him when it comes to keeping his.

I think we will see, the more banged up or tired Portis is, the worse Campbell will play. Heck, we're seeing that now.

I just wonder how this team would be with a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady behind center? Our defense is very good now, imagine how they would be without so many 3 and outs on our offense. A pure passer with Portis in the backfield!!!!!

This statement absolutely defines the reason why Campbell is not a franchise QB.

:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy

If you want to keep making excuses for a guy who is average and has never proven to be a leader, so be it.

I for one actually want the Redskins to have a winning season. And I think we see Colt this year. After the Bengals embarass us and the Eagles game gets out of hand, what do we have to lose?

You cant win without several playmakers. We were competitive for quite a few years due to the tremendous play of ST and the rest of the defense. Portis is a playmaker and CARRIED this team to a 6-2 record (not JC). Now teams put everyone in the box and make JC throw and this result has been reached. Moss is a playmaker too....but only when someone throws the ball more than 5 yards on a 3rd and 8. JC has scared deer syndrome, hes 27 and its time to stop living this fake dream that he will be our QB. He doesnt have it and never will. He is Brad Johnson at best.

Yes the OL isnt the best, but come on already. Havent you seen enough good QBs make plays regardless of the OL?

Please stop drinking the Campbell kool-aid.

Its frustrating that we will AGAIN be changing QBs (I really fault the GM for that....), but its coming.

JC will both of the next two games and look terrible.

And Todd or Colt will step in. I hope its Colt so at least we can somewhat weigh our options with him, but who knows.

Campbell is a very minor cap hit next year:

8/20/2005: Signed a five-year, $20 million contract. The deal included a $4.97 million signing bonus. 2008: $1.235 million, 2009: $782,500, 2010: Free Agent

If he can rise to the occasion and LEAD us to the playoffs, I will change my sig and give myself a personal ban from these boards for all the remaining playoff games........but everyone here knows thats not going to happen.

Sure there will be these responses to this post:

JC doesnt have an O-Line

JC doesnt have WRs

JC is still developing (Hes 27 for christ sake....Flacco and Ryan both look better than him UNDER pressure).

ENOUGH EXCUSES

As far as who....really....anyone else we have on our roster. He is beyond average.

If Brennan doesnt work out, then try to get Cassel.

I wholeheartedly agree that we do NOT need to draft a QB though and need to strengthen our lines.

I would argue to NOT draft a WR, a TE, a ST, a Punter??, or a CB next year at all (and resign Hall...dropping Springs like a lead boot).

Front Office has a lot of decisions to make in the offseason. The GM is not doing the right job.

I like Zorn and I think he has some real potential as a leader. I just hope he has the guts to make the right decisions here these last 3 weeks.