Atheist sign joins nativity scene, tree at Washington State Capitol building**Update

[Zguy28]

Living in conditions like that, certainly will make you long for another chance, that's for sure.

Has there been any wars in those places, backed by religion?

Sure there has. Take Romania for instance. It has suffered through many wars in that area, including Muslims fighting Christians, Mongols, and of course atheistic communism. And yet the people are yearning for hope in those places. Hope of something better than the suffering in this life. Hope that somebody loves them more than their fellow man does. Hope that they can be reconciled with God and find forgiveness of sins and have their heart changed.

[Corcaigh]

I mean, we get it atheists....we're idiots because we believe in a God. No need to rub it in everyone's face.

Good point, you'd never see Christians evangelizing.

[Koolblue13]

Sure there has. Take Romania for instance. It has suffered through many wars in that area, including Muslims fighting Christians, Mongols, and of course atheistic communism. And yet the people are yearning for hope in those places. Hope of something better than the suffering in this life. Hope that somebody loves them more than their fellow man does. Hope that they can be reconciled with God and find forgiveness of sins and have their heart changed.

And I wish the best for them. I just think the good of religion has ultimately been outweighed by the negative impact on accountability of humanity.

[Zguy28]

But "hope" is not the whole message.

Indeed. Its also about reconciliation.

Christianity, or Islam, or any other religion which incorporate threats do so because they work at some level in creating converts out of fear. Priests and clergy for centuries have been bullying their flock in this way.

One man's warning is another man's threat I guess.

I didn't know we were so threatening to you. A little insecure don't you think?

Given that, an alternative point of view may even be refreshing or even reassuring for those with doubts.

No doubt. Although I'm sure your alternative view and mine are vastly different.

Christians can just ignore it in the same way the rest of us ignore all the dumb signs on billboards, outside churches, in newspaper advertisements, and other mailings we are deluged with.

Hopefully they do and just shrug their shoulders and keep telling people the truth.

FTR, I don't like marquees outside churches. Never have, never will. Especially with those stupid sayings on them. MY church does not have one, and never will.:2cents:

[Zguy28]

Good point, you'd never see Christians evangelizing.

I actually was thinking the same thing. Go figure.

[dockeryfan]

nah, I' think I'll run up the score against you instead lol

Both statements, positive and negative, were blanket.

Which is true. Christians believe nasty stuff about nonbelievers. And atheists say nasty stuff about Christian beliefs. There is no reconciling these differences. We can only hope to keep it civil.

Also true. I would much rather be wrong than burn in hell forever.

I never said hell is all that it's about. But that certainly is part of it-a part that is entirely applicable to a thread involving atheism.

I can't think of something I would want to do LESS than try to teach you anything about Catholicism or spiritual life in general on a redskins message board. Especially after you have made it known that you simply want to argue. Your mind is made up, you think you know things, and that's that. If you were at my church, and wanted to learn, that would be one thing. You have an impression that it's all about hellfire and damnation. It is the case of a little bit of knowledge, and a whole lot of misunderstanding, because it is so very disconnected from human interactions of everyday living. I was just pointing it out to all the other casual thread readers.

[GibbsFactor]

The only reasons Christians support Israel is because of selfish prophetic reasons of next life promises. They don't care one bit (as a whole) for the people of Israel.

Haha, I heard that theory. Isreal exists so the Jews will be there when Christ returns.

[WVUforREDSKINS]

Haha, I heard that theory. Isreal exists so the Jews will be there when Christ returns.

Yea same here. That's not what im talking about though.

[AzSkinsFan63]

The only reasons Christians support Israel is because of selfish prophetic reasons of next life promises. They don't care one bit (as a whole) for the people of Israel.

Are you trying to say that of course since everybody hates the Jews. The fact that Christians supposedly don't, is only because they believe in "next life promises", or else they would naturally hate the Jews also?

Do you hate Israel?

Mel Gibson is that you?:laugh:

[Midnight Judges]

If you believe in "nothing," then why do you need a sign to represent "nothing?" And why specifically during this time of year? What is the significance?

I think it's ultimately the same reason Christians feel the need to spread their beliefs: human nature. The reasons used to justify the evangelism from both groups may be entirely different but I think the tendency itself draws from the same well.

[WVUforREDSKINS]

Are you trying to say that of course since everybody hates the Jews. The fact that Christians supposedly don't, is only because they believe in "next life promises", or else they would naturally hate the Jews also?

Do you hate Israel?

Mel Gibson is that you?:laugh:

They wouldn't naturally hate them but they wouldn't have such overwhelming support for Israel if they didn't believe in much of this end times stuff. I am talking about the fundamentalist churches who funnel money to Israel during war (like they did when Israel fought Hezbollah) Do you disagree? I mean after they are going to hell for not believing Jesus was the son of God right?

Not at all. Mel Gibson is a fundamentalist Christian (who probably supports Israel, while hating the Jews)

[Zguy28]

They wouldn't naturally hate them but they wouldn't have such overwhelming support for Israel if they didn't believe in much of this end times stuff. I am talking about the fundamentalist churches who funnel money to Israel during war (like they did when Israel fought Hezbollah) Do you disagree? I mean after they are going to hell for not believing Jesus was the son of God right?

Actually many Christians support Israel because they believe the nation still is God's chosen people, but are apostate currently. They believe they will be attacked by pagan nations, but will come to believe in Christ. Its part of Dispensational theology (which I personally disagree with fwiw).

Not at all. Mel Gibson is a fundamentalist Christian (who probably supports Israel, while hating the Jews)

Mel Gibson is Roman Catholic.

[Bang]

If you believe in "nothing," then why do you need a sign to represent "nothing?" And why specifically during this time of year? What is the significance?

Well, a lot of us may believe in no God, but certainly do believe that religion is a bane upon the earth.

Me, i feel it has served no good whatsoever as an overall whole, it's a lie, and is a tool used to control thoughts and minds since it's inception.

But, at the same time, I recognize there's no way anything I say or do is going to change it. It's my lot in life to live on this earth at this time while humanity is still held in it's thrall.

And since I have but a relative moment of time to enjoy life, I'd rather not spend it arguing an argument that will never change. I figure if those people who are religious believe it and it gives them peace, fine. I'm happy for them. Who am I to judge?

Others are not so easy going. There's militant factions in all beliefs (or non beliefs) and most of us who exist within a belief (or non belief) wish that the crusaders would just shut the **** up and let us all enjoy some peace and quiet for a change.

Live and let live... More than just words. And its really not that hard to do.

~Bang

[WVUforREDSKINS]

I figure if those people who are religious believe it and it gives them peace, fine. Who am I to judge?

This is the main reason that I think many people believe.

I mean, religion is is all cultures at all times. Coincidence? Doubtful. I think religion is (and now is is becoming was) almost a human necessity. We innately have that need due to out developed mind to believe that this perfect blue/green ball isn't here for no reason when it just might be or we are part of something bigger than we could ever fathom.

[AzSkinsFan63]

They wouldn't naturally hate them but they wouldn't have such overwhelming support for Israel if they didn't believe in much of this end times stuff. I am talking about the fundamentalist churches who funnel money to Israel during war (like they did when Israel fought Hezbollah) Do you disagree? I mean after they are going to hell for not believing Jesus was the son of God right?

Not at all. Mel Gibson is a fundamentalist Christian (who probably supports Israel, while hating the Jews)

So Christians would just not like them or support them, not necessarily hate them.. basically they'd let Iran do away with Israel if it were not for "after life promises".

Sounds to me like their might be some kind of grand plan in place to force Christians to support Isreal...LOL

It's not for me to decide who's going to hell and who isn't? It's way way way above my pay grade.

[WVUforREDSKINS]

So Christians would just not like them or support them, not necessarily hate them.. basically they'd let Iran do away with Israel if it were not for "after life promises".

Israel could take out Iran anytime it wanted to.

Sounds to me like their might be some kind of grand plan in place to force Christians to support Isreal...LOL

At some American Churches? You bet

It's not for me to decide who's going to hell and who isn't? It's way way way above my pay grade.

Agreed. But do you believe the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ?

[AzSkinsFan63]

Israel could take out Iran anytime it wanted to.?

So..they could have for years...

Agreed. But do you believe the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ?

For "me" the Gentile absolutely.

Would I love the Jews to accept Christ as the Messiah and say. "Blessed is He Who comes in the name of the Lord"..yes.

[Zguy28]

Agreed. But do you believe the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ?

If you believe what Christ himself said. :2cents:

Consider what he said:

John 14:1-6

"Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going."

Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

And also, do you remember the story from the Old Testament about Jacob and the Stairway to Heaven? (not the Led Zeppelin song )

Genesis 28:10-13

Jacob left Beersheba and set out for Haran. When he reached a certain place, he stopped for the night because the sun had set. Taking one of the stones there, he put it under his head and lay down to sleep. He had a dream in which he saw a stairway resting on the earth, with its top reaching to heaven, and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it. There above it stood the LORD, and he said: "I am the LORD, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac.

Listen to what Jesus said about it:

John 1:47-51

When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, he said of him, "Here is a true Israelite, in whom there is nothing false."

"How do you know me?" Nathanael asked.

Jesus answered, "I saw you while you were still under the fig tree before Philip called you."

Then Nathanael declared, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the King of Israel."

Jesus said, "You believe because I told you I saw you under the fig tree. You shall see greater things than that." He then added, "I tell you the truth, you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man."

He is the Son of Man. He is the way.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

See my problem with Christianity is that a horrible human being who accepts Jesus as his Lord and Savior and as the Son of God and who is able to repent on his deathbed for his many sins has more of a chance to make it to Heaven then a wonderful person who lives the teachings of Jesus to the fullest but doesn't accept him as the Son of God. That's ass-backwards to me.

I believe I've spoken to you about this in the past ZGuy.

[Jumbo]

After reading a number of the additional posts, my sympathy for the mean atheists increases.

My default position is not simply to tolerate most religious belief systems, but to respect them and always note the many positives that often flow through such beliefs. My default is inevitably challenged once most of their proponents begin to elaborate on their personal outlooks.

[Zguy28]

See my problem with Christianity is that a horrible human being who accepts Jesus as his Lord and Savior and as the Son of God and who is able to repent on his deathbed for his many sins has more of a chance to make it to Heaven then a wonderful person who lives the teachings of Jesus to the fullest but doesn't accept him as the Son of God. That's ass-backwards to me.

I believe I've spoken to you about this in the past ZGuy.

We have. And I understand how that could be cement block in your path.

I think last time I had the same answer though, your analogy is flawed (not intentionally). No person can live to Jesus's standard, which is sinless perfection in thought and deed.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

We have. And I understand how that could be cement block in your path.

I think last time I had the same answer though, your analogy is flawed (not intentionally). No person can live to Jesus's standard, which is sinless perfection in thought and deed.

I'm not talking perfection. I'm talking about as much as a person can. Mother Theresa without the whole nun thing. How is that put below someone who simply says, "Ok, Jesus is the Son of God."

[Koala]

What would be funny is if a muslim came along and threw a tarp over the whole thing, nativity scene and all (since idolatry offends their sensibilities).

[Koala]

Mother Theresa without the whole nun thing.

Actually Mother Theresa is the perfect example. Rumor is, she lost her faith and even stopped praying towards the end of her life.

[Jumbo]

What would be funny is if a muslim came along and threw a tarp over the whole thing, nativity scene and all (since idolatry offends their sensibilities).

What if instead of their sign, the atheists just ran an mp3 of Carlin's "bull****" routine on endless repeat.