Cerato needs to be held accountable

[Never4get#21]

HAHA I knew this was coming....Now wait untill we sign D Hall for big $$$ then we'll be flooded with complains about the FO!

[alleycat]

YEAH...I agree...F'n Vinny should be held accountable...He has been here for a longtime.He is responsible for many of our dumb f'n signings...Look at LLYOD,ARCH,DUCKETT !!! YEAH VINNY !!!!!!

Hummm, So does that mean he is also responsible for:

Resigned Albright

Resigned Cooley

Lorenzo Alexander (Plays damn near every position for about minimum wage)

Evans (seems to make some of you excited this week...Who signed him?)

Fletcher (He seems like a good pick up...whatya think !!)

Golston (Solid draft pick and low money)

Green (In from NOWHERE...Makes several big play a week later...Ummm, That is your GM type decisions)

Heyer...(Oh yeah..all you knew he would be good...Apparently Vinny did.)

Horton...(Oh that's right...Vinny was LUCKY)

Kendall...(Great pick up)

Landry...(How did that draft pick work out ??)

Rocky...(How did that draft pick work out ??? Oh yeah he got injured...Dumb Vinny)

Rabach...(How did that pick up work out...pert solid huh)

Rogers (Plenty of you wanted #22 GONE !! Guess Dumbass Vinny didn't get the memo)

Suisham...(Ditto)

So Vinny is a TARD cuz of Kelly,Davis,Thomas and Brooks.

Yep...Brooks didn't work out ( We didn't have time to wait on him...He may end up very good)

Kelly...Who knows...He isn't healthy...We knew he had knee probs and rolled the dice...Maybe it didn't workout for us...Still don't know.

Davis and Thomas...I don't know...They are still learning...Maybe Vinny was a BOZO on them TOO...Or maybe 2-3 years from now we are talking bout them making their 1st and 2nd pro-bowl ?

I have hated Vinny in the past because of decisions...He has made some TERRIBLE ones.

But if we are gonna ***** about him...It's only right that his Good decisions carry the same weight !

[fansince62]

They are still learning...Maybe Vinny was a BOZO on them TOO...Or maybe 2-3 years from now we are talking bout them making their 1st and 2nd pro-bowl ?

I QUOTE]

so every year the strategy is wait 2-3 yrs? you're looking at individuals. the key is how the parts are sequenced into a team that plays top tier football and sustains that from season to season. the Skins have been a good team. but they always seem out of sequence personnel wise. your counter-argument is no better than the bust argument.

[ZRagone]

Jesus tapdancing monkey christ, this thread just takes the cake.

You're right guys. What was I thinking...great draft. Congrats Vinny. Go skins

Seriously, you realize that people saying "You can't judge a draft after 9 games" does not necessarily mean "THIS DRAFT HAS BEEN GREAT, WOOO!"

It means "you can't judge a draft after 9 games".

You need to give this at least 2 years to really make a good call on a draft.

i cant believe it. On draft day, you all were livid that we took 3 WR's. Now you are defending each of the picks. And nobody has mentioned that there our 3rd rounder has been inactive all year..our 5th rounder has barely played...our 6th rounder got cut. Are you guys on Vinny's payroll?

I have 400 posts...ive been reading more and posting less for years. Those stats you posted are ridiculous. Eddie Royal has more yards in the 2nd half tonight that those 3 have for the entire season

Say it with me

TIGHT END

TIGHT END

TIGHT END

There don't we feel better? Now, to continue on. As has been said thorughout...YOU CAN'T JUDGE A DRAFT IN HALF A SEASON!

Lets first look at the WR's we're talking about:

Eddie Royal = Stats inflated due to a huge game when Denvers #1 reciever was out. Their #2 reciever is rather old and on the backside of his carreer. They have absolutely NO running game so pass a ton. And they play in perhaps the worst division in football. Playing on a team whose offense is rather known by the offensive vets.

Desean Jackson = The first quarter of the year the Eagles didn't have their #1 OR their #2 reciever, which happened to be the time in which Jackson has his biggest games as well. As the season progressed, Westbrook went down with injury killing the passing game a bit. Not to mention, even with Westbrook, the Eagles pass the ball far more than run it. Playing on a team whose offense is rather known by the offensive vets.

Malcom Kelly and Devin Thomas = Playing on a team with a top 10 reciever, and a very solid #2 that is having a good year. They are on a team that run the ball nearly 30 plays a game, playing massive ball control throughout the year. Playing for a team where not just the rookies but the entire offense is needing to learn the offense meaning there's less time to focus on the Rooks.

Fred Davis = Drafted behind a PRO BOWL caliber, potential all pro, Tight End. Meant for depth and to be used in time for more advance packages. However, is on a team where everyone is learning the offense so advanced packages may take some time to put into play.

Its not as simple as just going "WR and WR, therefore they're equal". Not all situations are equal!

Add on the fact that we have short, fast recievers already which is what those two are. Devin Thomas was known that he likely wasn't going to make an instant splash and would be a project. Kelly's knee was questionable but signs point to him being ready to make a big impact once injury gets past. They both give us what everyone was screaming for...not more recievers but BIG recievers. They also give us what everyone was screaming for, drafting for need instead of luxury. Eddie Royal or Desean Jackson would've been luxury, not need.

As to the rest. Again, a draft class half a season does not make.

Horton was a great pick and those chalking it up all to luck are insane. Was it partially luck he wasn't taken? Yes. Though it was also good scouting to know that he had injury problems going into the draft that had a lot of teams iffy about him. It was also good scouting to have him on the board and watching him knowing he already generally knew the defensive scheme so could come right in.

Chad Rienheart showed great promise in the pre-season, but is a rookie linemen not drafted in the first 10 or 20. He's not going to make an immediete impact, espicially on a team with a GOOD veteran offensive line. He gives us young depth at O-Line, which we wanted and needed. This was a bad pick? It doesn't seem like it was at this point, lets continue to watch.

JT Tyron was a risky pick. He's good Excellent speed, could turn into a nice punt returner, but has been questionable in coverage at the moment. Thankfully he was drafted onto a team with THREE good cornerbacks, and a decent 4th one, all ahead of him. He's got raw talent but needs some time to develop and is in a system to do it. Lets give him a year or two to see.

Kareem Moore looked great in preseason even with the first team. Yes, is a bit injured at the moment but not a huge deal unless its somehow massively chronic. He's also behind a stud, pro-bowl caliber Free Saftey so is primarily excellent depth for us. This was a bad pick?

Durant Brooks was the only solid "bust", since he's the only one off the team. It was a gamble, but a low round one. There was no real way to know the pressure of the Pro's was going to get to him THAT much.

Colt Brenan showed promise during the preseason and could be a good #2 for us as time goes on behind JC, which is what you hope for with a QB pick in the late rounds.

Rob Jackson has gotten a little bit of time and looked decently sharp. Late round pick that could provide depth in the long run. Nothing spectacular but you don't usually get spectacular (espicially twice) at that point in the draft.

What exaclty were you wanting Ji? Every draft pick to be starting? You almost NEVER find that. Hell, you almost never find every draft pick actually making the main roster!

I don't think anyone is going "OMG This is the greatest draft EVA!" at the moment, what people are saying is it doesn't look like a "bomb" at the moment by any honest evaluation of the entire draft and it definitly can't be labeled a "bust" after 9 games.

[NewCliche21]

They are still learning...Maybe Vinny was a BOZO on them TOO...Or maybe 2-3 years from now we are talking bout them making their 1st and 2nd pro-bowl ?

I QUOTE]

so every year the strategy is wait 2-3 yrs? you're looking at individuals. the key is how the parts are sequenced into a team that plays top tier football and sustains that from season to season. the Skins have been a good team. but they always seem out of sequence personnel wise. your counter-argument is no better than the bust argument.

You must have ignored every other part of his post.

We're a playoff team who's 6-3. Yeah, we're doing awful.

And every pick starts immediately and produces like Jerry Rice. For a fan since 1962, you clearly haven't been paying attention to any draft, ever.

And I'm pretty sure that almost EVERY effing name that you so conveniently ignored has sorta/kinda fit into our scheme. Barely.

You're not even trying to debate at this point; you're just spouting absolutely nothing. Give it up.

[NewCliche21]

Jesus tapdancing monkey christ, this thread just takes the cake.

I don't think anyone is going "OMG This is the greatest draft EVA!" at the moment, what people are saying is it doesn't look like a "bomb" at the moment by any honest evaluation of the entire draft and it definitly can't be labeled a "bust" after 9 games.

Not supposed to quote entire posts, but god damn, this was perfect.

THANK YOU!

[alleycat]

[quote=alleycat;5791574

They are still learning...Maybe Vinny was a BOZO on them TOO...Or maybe 2-3 years from now we are talking bout them making their 1st and 2nd pro-bowl ?

I QUOTE]

so every year the strategy is wait 2-3 yrs? you're looking at individuals. the key is how the parts are sequenced into a team that plays top tier football and sustains that from season to season. the Skins have been a good team. but they always seem out of sequence personnel wise. your counter-argument is no better than the bust argument.

Well..

Yes...exactly...Draft with no expectation of any production for 3 years...Yes my post states that very clearly...DUH !!

My point was only a RICHARDHEAD would judge a body of work only by the negatives.

Vinny's story isn't done being written.Plenty of RICHARDS assume he made all decisions...oh...no...I mean just the bad ones.

I am pretty sure some of HIS bad decisions might have had to do with an owner who hadn't (Football) matured yet.

Oh...And that guy Joe Gibbs...I think he had a say in a cpl moves(Whatya think)

I don't want to here about 10 years ago !!! I want to know recent history...

Lets be real...How many years has Vinny had total control ??and what has he done with that control ??

Its seems he has done...some good...some bad...and some we don't know yet.

Lets say he has had TOTAL control for a decade...It would only mean...He did poorly...and then did better and then did better and now we are evaluating the current year.

We are 6-3 with a lot of hope...And every player on the team came through HIS office !!

Richard...Is that you ??

[pjfootballer]

the more I think about the 2nd round, the more upset I get. We drafted Devin Thomas over Eddie Royal, Fred Jackson over Desean Jackson. With the exception of him getting Lucky in Chris Horton, we have gotten zero help from our draft. This was his first draft as the boss and look what happened. Where is the accountability? Look at all the 2nd rounders helping NFL teams and we have gotten zero from ours. Its really hard to mess up like this but Vinny somehow did it.

If we had a good draft, we would have a great future and probably be 7-2 instead of 6-3

And if the stupid players hadn't blown a "Gimme" against the Rams, we would be 7-2. Or if the offense had actually tried to get into the endzone against the Steelers, we'd be 8-1. Oh hell, if we'd have been more prepared against the Giants, well, we'd be 9-0, SUPER BOWL BABY!!!!!:doh:

[pjfootballer]

i cant believe it. On draft day, you all were livid that we took 3 WR's. Now you are defending each of the picks. And nobody has mentioned that there our 3rd rounder has been inactive all year..our 5th rounder has barely played...our 6th rounder got cut. Are you guys on Vinny's payroll?

Pissing and moaning about it 7 months later will not change it. Root the team on for the last 7 games and worry about drafts in April. We have 6 wins without those guys, meaning we could get 6 more. You never know.

[pjfootballer]

Some of you seem pretty delusional about this. I understand waiting to judge our draft class before we call anyone a bust. But there has been absolutely no indication thus far that any of the three 2nd rounders will amount to anything. People may say "he will contribute eventually" um...what have you possibly seen that could tell you that now? Things have changed. Rookies are expected to contribute now. Just look at the Giants last year and the rooks that they would not have gotten a super bowl without. You simply cannot whiff on three 2nd rounders.

The week of the Philly game, I remember hearing J. Thrash was doubtful with an injury and Kelly was probable with an injury. I told a friend Thrash will play, Kelly will not. And of course that is what happened. Cerrato is to blame (this is not a strong class and, hello! they all made the team to make the FO look brilliant.....but now not so much because they can't see the field) and it is pretty ironic that our only bright spot was nearly mr. irrelevant. I mean...Vinny did have ten chances to get it right.

And what makes you think after 9 games that they won't eventually contribute? It goes both ways.

[pjfootballer]

Here's a name we all know and hate (although he was a great receiver!):

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/I/IrviMi00.htm

This guy has clearly sucked, and couldn't stay on the field:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MasoDe00.htm

What a waste this turd was:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MuhaMu00.htm

We should definitely give up on Kelly on Thomas immediately, like Dallas did with this waste o' space:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitJi00.htm

What were the Giants thinking wasting their time on this d-bag?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/ToomAm00.htm

Great Post. I was going to mention Jimmy Smith. He preactically missed his first 2 years with broken legs that wouldn't heal right and not only did Dallass get rid of him, but so did Philly. :applause:

[IbleedBnG83]

JI, I have a question for you.

What team's draft, has helped them to the point, that they are NOW winning games this year?

[ouvan59]

so every year the strategy is wait 2-3 yrs? you're looking at individuals. the key is how the parts are sequenced into a team that plays top tier football and sustains that from season to season. the Skins have been a good team. but they always seem out of sequence personnel wise. your counter-argument is no better than the bust argument.

Yes, that's how the draft works. The number of players that make an immediate impact isn't very big. Everybody is throwing their hands up and pointing to Royal and Jackson but let's take a look at the receivers taken in the 2nd round this year.

Donnie Avery

Devin Thomas

Jordy Nelson

James Hardy

Eddie Royal

Jerome Simpson

Fred Davis

DeSean Jackson

Malcolm Kelly

Limas Sweed

Dexter Jackson

Martellus Bennett

That's 13 players and only three have had much of an impact. And almost nobody was calling for us to draft any of these three guys before the draft.

[IbleedBnG83]

Yes, that's how the draft works. The number of players that make an immediate impact isn't very big. Everybody is throwing their hands up and pointing to Royal and Jackson but let's take a look at the receivers taken in the 2nd round this year.

Donnie Avery

Devin Thomas

Jordy Nelson

James Hardy

Eddie Royal

Jerome Simpson

Fred Davis

DeSean Jackson

Malcolm Kelly

Limas Sweed

Dexter Jackson

Martellus Bennett

That's 13 players and only three have had much of an impact. And almost nobody was calling for us to draft any of these three guys before the draft.

:applause:

And of those 3 players, how many of them has made such BIG impact that they have turned the team around? Aver and Royal were brought in originally as a 3 or 4 receiver. They lucked out. But it takes more than a draft pick to make a team successful.

[ouvan59]

Rookies are expected to contribute now. Just look at the Giants last year and the rooks that they would not have gotten a super bowl without. You simply cannot whiff on three 2nd rounders..

It's funny you use the Giants as an example. Steve Smith, the Giants 2nd rounder last year, had 4 catches for 26 yards at this time last year. Kevin Boss, another of their rookies that played well down the stretch, had zero catches at this time last year. Ahmad Bradshaw had 0 carries and 1 reception for 11 yards at this time last year. Jay Alford had 1 tackle all year. Zak DeOssie had 8 tackles all year. Michael Johnson had a total of 8 tackles at this time last year. Adam Koets has yet to play a game. First rounder Aaron Ross was just starting to settle in as a starter after coming off the bench to start the year.

So by our standards Reese should have been fired midseason for putting together such a bust draft class since their midseason stats last year make our guys look like absolute studs.

[Shilsu]

I'm not ready to throw Thomas and Kelly under a bus yet since things happen... But the frustrating thing is not that they're not making huge impacts... It's that they're not contributing, period. Note that this list doesn't include contributions through punt returns or reverses, which a few of them have already made a big impact on.

Well, Fred Davis had a reverse for a 3-yard loss...

Rookie Receivers

#42 - Eddie Royal - 52 Receptions for 625 Yards - 4 TD

#49 - DeSean Jackson - 34 Receptions for 525 Yards - 1 TD

#33 - Donnie Avery - 23 Receptions for 363 Yards - 2 TD

#36 - Jordy Nelson - 18 Receptions for 211 Yards - 1 TD

#41 - James Hardy - 7 Receptions for 66 Yards - 1 TD

#34 - Devin Thomas - 8 Receptions for 63 Yards - 0 TD

#53 - Limas Sweed - 4 Receptions for 39 Yards - 0 TD

#51 - Malcolm Kelly - 1 Receptions for 6 Yards - 0 TD

#46 - Jerome Simpson - 1 Receptions for 2 Yards - 0 TD

#58 - Dexter Jackson - 0 Receptions for 0 Yards - 0 TD

Rookie Tight Ends

#38 - John Carlson - 22 Receptions for 244 Yards - 2 TD

#61 - Martellus Bennett - 11 Receptions for 181 Yards - 1 TD

#30 - Dustin Keller - 13 Receptions for 147 Yards - 2 TD

#48 - Fred Davis - 1 Receptions for 6 Yards - 0 TD

[SkinzFoLife]

In other news. HB Blades has been on the field alot. You win some, you lose some

[Rudechain]

look at all the first rounders and 2nd rounders helping their teams. You guys are morons. 1st and 2nd rounders are suppose to be starting their first year...not long term projects. This isnt Major League baseball

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_NFL_Draft

Ouch. resorting to calling people morons now huh?:doh:

Remember the wide receivers were taken and it was known they would be depth this year. ( in other words, not beating out Moss or ARE)

Also, remember this team returned nearly every starter so anyone drafted would see little playing time.

Take a look at the team and tell me who you would have supplanted so Thomas ( learning the pro game), Kelly ( knee problems) or Davis ( 3rd on the TE depth chart) so they would get more playing time.

Would I like to see more of an impact? Sure, but I also realize that these rooks are behind Moss, ARE and Thrash on the depth chart. I also realize that they were drafted for the future and not this year.

But then again, I know that you have to be patient. Something that is sorely missing here at ES.

[Rudechain]

every post in this thread has been defending Vinny....Its not just this year...its been all the years but this is the first year he has been in charge. And yes..horton was a lucky pick. Vinny took a fooking Punter over Chris Horton. Defend that

That's funny. Every post I read has not defended Vinny. Rather, they stated the obvious.

so come on tell us. Who would you have drafted? Who would you have supplanted in the starting lineup?

[corrupt3d]

Ji, I guarantee if I had mentioned Donnie Avery and Eddie Royal to you a week before the draft, you would have said "who? we dont want those shlubs" and you would have said that DeSean Jackson is too short to play here.

The dude measured in at 5'8" at the combine.

Point is, for you to say now that the draft sucked, is moot on two levels. There's nothign we can do about it and we can only hope these guys get better.

[Rudechain]

the point is...when you have 3 high round picks, they need to contribute immediately. You know what the odds are of 3 2nd rounders not making one bit of impact for your team in the 1st season? Probably near zero unless you are Vinny Cerato. Where is my love guys?

It's been NINE FREAKING GAMES!!!!!!!!

By your judging standards, Peyton Manning would have been a failure. Mathias Kiwanuka would be a bust. Eli Manning did nothing special his rookie year, Sean Taylor did not make an impact for nearly the first half of the season.

Once again. The Wide Receivers were drafted for depth and for future years. Unless your picking in the top ten overall, you should NOT be expecting to get an impact player.

This AINT FANTASY FOOTBALL!!!!

[TD_washingtonredskins]

OP - you can't say that we did poorly drafting in the 2nd round and then just assign our potential DROY 7th-rounder to luck. That's not fair.

We drafted a position of need with 2 of our top 3 picks. They still have time to pan out. In addition, over the past couple years we've added several key contributors on the second day of the draft (Horton, Montgomery, Golston, etc.).

Have patience.

[Rudechain]

I have 400 posts...ive been reading more and posting less for years. Those stats you posted are ridiculous. Eddie Royal has more yards in the 2nd half tonight that those 3 have for the entire season

Wait a minute. Is post count now a measure of football acumen?

[turbodiesel#44]

Do you know how the draft works at all? Its a crap shoot buddy. To be fair, they were all first round grades drafted in the second round.

No, 1st round grade talents were taken in the first round. You believe the crap from sportswriters? The same sportswriters that totally screw up the power rankings every year? The same ones who can't pick game outcomes any better than some of the members here?

With the exception of QB, no second rounder should be a long term project. Of course you don't expect (necessarily) starting grade performance out of all of your early picks, but you should see some flashes of talent and at least a progression towards second round talent. We are 0 for 3 on our second rounders so far. DT is barely seeing the field because Zorn doesn't think he has enough brains for the pro game. Kelly's knee was already shot when we got him, after everybody else passed on him, and Davis was a waste because we didn't really need him whether he pans out or not.

This should be a perfect lesson on why BPA after the first round is a philosophy for idiots. We needed a safety, and took a late round chance on Horton. Look how that worked out. The kid almost went undrafted. Yes, we badly needed WR, but did DT get stupid between college and camp? Did our medical staff not recognize Kelly's injury? Were we planning to boot Cooley and replace him with Davis?

I think because Zorn was so new and still assembling and organizing his staff and preparing for his first camp, he had minimal input into this draft. I think it was mostly all on Vinny. Hopefully, next year we will have Zorn deeply involved.

[Rudechain]

Im dissapointed in the reaction of this thread.

Want to know the reason for your dissappointment?

Look no further than trying to judge a draft after NINE FREAKING GAMES!!!!

Pretty short sighted of you Ji.