eljeasel Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 It's been NINE FREAKING GAMES!!!!!!!!By your judging standards, Peyton Manning would have been a failure. Mathias Kiwanuka would be a bust. Eli Manning did nothing special his rookie year, Sean Taylor did not make an impact for nearly the first half of the season. Once again. The Wide Receivers were drafted for depth and for future years. Unless your picking in the top ten overall, you should NOT be expecting to get an impact player. This AINT FANTASY FOOTBALL!!!! I cant help but hearing Dan Hawkins: ITS DIVISION I FOOTBALL!!! IT AINT INTRAMURALS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corrupt3d Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Wait a minute. Is post count now a measure of football acumen? UUUHHHH YEAH! Want to know the reason for your dissappointment?Look no further than trying to judge a draft after NINE FREAKING GAMES!!!! Pretty short sighted of you Ji. this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alleycat Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 So...I take it that...All #1 picks should be pro-bowl guys right. If the #1 pick in the draft is a 50/50 deal...I am happy with rolling dice with later round guys. As far as this PROJECT argument...I don't think 9 games is a project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 DT is barely seeing the field because Zorn doesn't think he has enough brains for the pro game. Yet even with that limited playing time and lack of brains, DT has more catches than Thrash, a player Zorn praised enthusiastically for having "enough brains for the pro game" and particularly for his version of the WCO. I think that points to something other than "brains" being behind the low numbers for both receivers. This isn't a slam against Thrash, because I love Thrash, one of my favorite players...but too many fans on this site are claiming that the entire Redskins staff and players are all rolling their eyes at how "stupid" Devin Thomas is...I think it's getting a bit out of hand to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.T.real,lights,out Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 My wife and I have a baby girl that just turned 1. Much to my dismay, she is not a doctor yet. I'm going to have to have a talk with my wife. Someone's gotta pay for our daughters shortcomings.In other news. We need(ed) big WRs. Why would we need another 1-2 midget WRs? :applause: Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danthemann71 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Who's Cerato? Who's Fred Jackson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brucko Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Just wait and see, it is too early to give up on these guys. Time will tell, lets see who is more successful in the long haul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darc Requiem Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Cerato? Why are you talking about a Kia like its a person? http://www.cargurus.com/Cars/Overview-c18626-2008-Cerato.html Wasn't Fred Jackson a R&B singer in the 80s and 90s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backpack3r Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Geeeez.....so everyone here still thinks it was a good idea to draft 3 pass catchers with our first 3 picks? Everyone ignored me when I asked this last time, seems like Vinny homers or something lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbodiesel#44 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 This isn't a slam against Thrash, because I love Thrash, one of my favorite players...but too many fans on this site are claiming that the entire Redskins staff and players are all rolling their eyes at how "stupid" Devin Thomas is...I think it's getting a bit out of hand to say the least. Talk to Zorn about that. He's the one indicating DT is not catching on. Still. And I like Thrash too, but if he's some kind of WR yardstick, we need to re-examine our standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 With the exception of QB, no second rounder should be a long term project. Of course you don't expect (necessarily) starting grade performance out of all of your early picks, but you should see some flashes of talent and at least a progression towards second round talent. We are 0 for 3 on our second rounders so far. QBs usually develop over a time frame of two to four years in the league. Wide receivers usually need a time frame of one to three years to get up to speed. Hell, Roddy White started half of his rookie season and only had 29 catches. It took him two full seasons to really kick it into gear, and he was three years older than Thomas with more college experience when he signed with Atlanta. The only positions that you can really expect to plug highly touted rookies into with high expectations are RB, DT, and DE. With the possible exception of top five picks who are not QBs or WRs, just about every other rookie will need some time to adjust to the game before they make much in the way of legitimate contribution. This should be a perfect lesson on why BPA after the first round is a philosophy for idiots. We needed a safety, and took a late round chance on Horton. Look how that worked out. The kid almost went undrafted. Horton was the best player available. Seriously, though, drafting BPA is a perfectly sound strategy provided that the guys you have grading talent know their stuff. Our front office really seems to have a strong grip when it comes to grading some positions (S, CB, LB) but has struggled with others over the years (WR). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasthunder Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Geeeez.....so everyone here still thinks it was a good idea to draft 3 pass catchers with our first 3 picks? Everyone ignored me when I asked this last time, seems like Vinny homers or something lol Yes, because based on the rankings of the draft they were still the BPA. Concidering we started the draft with what 6 picks and ended with 8 picks I believe the taking of Thomas and Kelly were justified. I would like to have seen maybe a OL taken instead of Davis, but given that the pickins were very thin at that stage, I think he did good. And since we had most all of our starters coming back, our draft was more for depth then anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbodiesel#44 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 QBs usually develop over a time frame of two to four years in the league. Wide receivers usually need a time frame of one to three years to get up to speed. Hell, Roddy White started half of his rookie season and only had 29 catches. It took him two full seasons to really kick it into gear, and he was three years older than Thomas with more college experience when he signed with Atlanta.The only positions that you can really expect to plug highly touted rookies into with high expectations are RB, DT, and DE. With the possible exception of top five picks who are not QBs or WRs, just about every other rookie will need some time to adjust to the game before they make much in the way of legitimate contribution. Kelly couldn't even make camp, and neither of the WR's could even pass the teams fitness test. I'm not claiming they should start year 1, but what have you seen from them? Zorn is barely even fielding Thomas, and his competition is Thrash. Horton was the best player available.Seriously, though, drafting BPA is a perfectly sound strategy provided that the guys you have grading talent know their stuff. Our front office really seems to have a strong grip when it comes to grading some positions (S, CB, LB) but has struggled with others over the years (WR). BS. Horton > Moore. We took Moore over Horton. By a lot. That blows your theory out of the water. And shows that your idea of "Best" is an iffy proposition. You need to build your team by addressing your weaknesses, not collecting a bunch of athletes to sit your bench. Using BPA is subjective at best. You at least need to narrow your choices to positions of need and pick the best choice there. At least past round 1 where the big money can wreck your cap if the guy busts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie5 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 If yr going bash Cerrato at least spell his name correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie5 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 You need to build your team by addressing your weaknesses. Not really, especially not in the draft. You draft for the future more than the present. You make trades and sign FAs for immediate needs/weak areas. Of course, when you have two players you rate equally, it makes sense to take the greater need, but good teams draft players not position in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romank Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 the more I think about the 2nd round, the more upset I get. We drafted Devin Thomas over Eddie Royal, Fred Jackson over Desean Jackson. With the exception of him getting Lucky in Chris Horton, we have gotten zero help from our draft. This was his first draft as the boss and look what happened. Where is the accountability? Look at all the 2nd rounders helping NFL teams and we have gotten zero from ours. Its really hard to mess up like this but Vinny somehow did it.If we had a good draft, we would have a great future and probably be 7-2 instead of 6-3 I say we hang Vinney from the goal post at the next game:rolleyes: Be patient Ji, most never expected us to be .500 at this point of the season so we are WAY past most expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie5 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 the more I think about the 2nd round, the more upset I get. We drafted Devin Thomas over Eddie Royal, Fred Jackson over Desean Jackson. With the exception of him getting Lucky in Chris Horton, we have gotten zero help from our draft. This was his first draft as the boss and look what happened. Where is the accountability? Look at all the 2nd rounders helping NFL teams and we have gotten zero from ours. Its really hard to mess up like this but Vinny somehow did it.If we had a good draft, we would have a great future and probably be 7-2 instead of 6-3 The more I read this, the more ridiculous it gets. Chris Horton is luck, but if a pick doesn't pay off immediately Cerrato sucks? See: that sinks cred. You want to complain, not think. Let's talk about whether this was a good draft in 2011, OK sport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkfan63 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Vinny won't be held accountable for anything as long as Danny Boy owns the team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backpack3r Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Yes, because based on the rankings of the draft they were still the BPA. Concidering we started the draft with what 6 picks and ended with 8 picks I believe the taking of Thomas and Kelly were justified. I would like to have seen maybe a OL taken instead of Davis, but given that the pickins were very thin at that stage, I think he did good.And since we had most all of our starters coming back, our draft was more for depth then anything else. You dont always take the BPA, especially considering you drafted 3 of the same position (essentially) in a row. Dont tell me on draft day you werent questioning that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 I also like cheeseburgers. Wait, is this a serious thread? So the GM needs to be held accountable for players who have not yet become superstars in their rookie year, when he could have easily drafted players ahead of them who every OTHER GM also could have drafted but all but 1 chose not to. Name a team that has more than one rookie starting for them right now, then maybe you might have some redeeming qualities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbodiesel#44 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Not really, especially not in the draft. You draft for the future more than the present. You make trades and sign FAs for immediate needs/weak areas. Of course, when you have two players you rate equally, it makes sense to take the greater need, but good teams draft players not position in the draft. We got Davis because Cooley is so old? And we don't expect anything from our WRs until Moss, ARE or Thrash retires? I don't think so. You can't build on a playoff team and expect to make the small improvement to a championship team by putting players (of questionable talent especially) in the bank until whenever. You fix up your weak points if you want to improve, and you can't do it all with free agency. We tried that. Didn't work. You can never have all the required aspects of a team come together with the timing needed to win it all if you slap things together like that and ignore your own shortcomings. I will concede that if the league goes capless, it might work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljeasel Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Kelly couldn't even make camp, and neither of the WR's could even pass the teams fitness test. I'm not claiming they should start year 1, but what have you seen from them? Zorn is barely even fielding Thomas, and his competition is Thrash. Wait, didnt Smoot fail Z's fitness test. Didnt Smoot fail every single redskins fitness test. Clearly he isnt cut out to play in this league. As far as barely fielding Thomas, that sounds like hyperbole. Id like to see just how many passing plays hes in on. And pretend like Thrash isnt a solid player who does all the little things right. Thrash is one of the guys around the league that does all the stuff that doesnt show up in the stat sheet, but that doesnt seem to be considered contributing anymore. What is a rookie receiver supposed to show 9 games in? BS. Horton > Moore. We took Moore over Horton. By a lot. That blows your theory out of the water. And shows that your idea of "Best" is an iffy proposition. You need to build your team by addressing your weaknesses, not collecting a bunch of athletes to sit your bench. Using BPA is subjective at best. You at least need to narrow your choices to positions of need and pick the best choice there. At least past round 1 where the big money can wreck your cap if the guy busts. Wait, since we took Moore over Horton it blows the BPA out of the water? That just doesnt make sense. Youll have to explain that a little better. No one knew how good Horton was going to work out. NO ONE. If they did, he might have gone in the first day. But the results of the draft 9 games in hardly show that a team was using BPA or shouldnt have used BPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbodiesel#44 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Wait, didnt Smoot fail Z's fitness test. Didnt Smoot fail every single redskins fitness test. Clearly he isnt cut out to play in this league. As far as barely fielding Thomas, that sounds like hyperbole. Id like to see just how many passing plays hes in on. And pretend like Thrash isnt a solid player who does all the little things right. Thrash is one of the guys around the league that does all the stuff that doesnt show up in the stat sheet, but that doesnt seem to be considered contributing anymore. What is a rookie receiver supposed to show 9 games in?Smoot gets winded, we put Torrance in and lose a game on one pass. I'm not making this up. Smoot should be able to get in shape, or get replaced. Looks like maybe he has been with Hall. A rookie should show up to camp in shape. A UDFA should show up in shape. Kelly had an excuse, Thomas did not.Wait, since we took Moore over Horton it blows the BPA out of the water? That just doesnt make sense. Youll have to explain that a little better. No one knew how good Horton was going to work out. NO ONE. If they did, he might have gone in the first day. But the results of the draft 9 games in hardly show that a team was using BPA or shouldnt have used BPA.Horton was better than Moore when we drafted them. The FO obviously thought Moore was better player available taking him so far ahead of Horton. Is that hard to see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christblvr Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Seriously, have you ever looked at the progression of young receivers? Cris Carter Isaac Bruce Jimmy Smith Rod Smith Henry Ellard Steve Smith Santana Moss Terrell Owens Derrick Mason Reggie Wayne T.J. Houshmandzadeh Bernard Berrian The list could go on and on but all these guys would be considered busts by the criteria set forth in this thread. But your doctor analogy is pretty spot on. Doctors go through years and years of training. Receivers take time to come through for the most part. If in a couple of years we are still having this discussion then I will agree that these picks were wasted but until then it's just howling at the moon. Great point everyone should go to NFL.com and look at Moss and some of the other guys stats their first year. That would end this conversation and hopefully bring some reason to this ridiculus post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McD5 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Agree with the OP, even though he can't name the draft picks. The second round was embarrassing. What do we need? 8 second rounders to hope that one of them can actually contribute? Our scouting and FO have been awful....let's hope they improve. It is especially amazing considering that the team flew out to Kelly to catch passes from JC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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