Media Myth of the Redskins 2008 Draft

[bulldog]

We have seen a lot of comments on ESPN and Fox Radio talking about the Redskins 2008 draft and how the team missed the boat on addressing its 'true' needs.

In reviewing this team's picks a case can be made that out of the 10 selections only ONE was at a position where the team had a bona fide star in his prime, TE.

So, the Fred Davis selection in Round 2 in my mind COULD conceivably be circled.

However, the rest of the picks:

2 - Thomas - WR - down the field threat. Redskins didn't make enough big plays in 2007 and when Moss was out of action at mid-season the passing attack all but disappeared. Need pick here.

2 - Kelly - WR - physical possession receiver. Redskins were poor in converting third downs for much of 2007 and had their problems inside the 20 as well in settling for field goals. Kelly at 6'4 and 225 addresses the issue of who is available to take advantage of the room created when Cooley clears out the zone.

3 - Rinehart - LG and LT - what bigger need was there in the offseason than acquiring a young inside OL who could understudy at guard and perhaps backup Chris Samuels at LT as well?

4 - Tryon - CB - With Rogers injured and Springs 33 years old, the Redskins clearly needed depth at CB at the time of the draft. Tryon has good cover skills and probably would have gone higher if he were 5'11 instead of 5'9.

6 - Brooks - P - Derrick Frost was not among the punting leaders in the NFC in 2007 and the Redskins consistently suffered in the field position battle because of his inconsistencies from game to game. Every 55 yarder was mirrored by a 25 yard shank.

6 - Moore - S - With the passing of ST and the release of guys like 33 year old Omar Stoutmire, the Skins needed to find some younger safeties to come in and understudy Landry and Doughty and provide some capable depth down the line.

6 - Brennan - QB - Zorn didn't have a #3 quarterback to develop whose skilll set seemed suited to the WCO. Hollenbach seemed like a better fit under the Gibbs/Saunders offense as run in 2007. Brennan was the choice. A LOT of teams take developmental qbs in the last 2 rounds to work with at the price of a minimum contract.

Seventh rounders, Jackson (DE) and Horton (S) were also at need positions, even though their chances of making the final roster might appear long.

So, there is the draft.

9 out of 10 picks for need areas.

Davis was the one 'luxury' pick and of course if Cooley were to go down, his presence would then be considered 'providential' by the same folks that are criticizing the pick now

The Redskins came into the offseason in 2008 with many need areas, in part the fault of poor previous drafts and the trade of picks for certain players that didn't turn out to be long-term contributors here.

But you can't solve all of a team's problems in one draft if you are a 9-7 club.

It will be interesting to see what Calais Campbell does in his NFL career vs. the picks the Redskins made in Round 2 surrounding his selection by Arizona.

I seriously doubt however that Campbell would after one week in camp have been seen as a capable successor to Phillip Daniels at LDE on a veteran led defense.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I just wish Phillip Merling had fallen to 34. I think we would have been fine with drafting Malcolm Kelly and Limas Sweed instead

I am also very happy the team did NOT pick C. Campbell. He is a classic underachiever

[Oldskool]

Merling was not known as a pass rusher in college at all SHF. Drafting a kid that had 12 sacks in 3 years at Clemson wasn't going to do anything but blow a pick on a kid that wouldn't be able to beat a 35 year old Daniels for a starting gig.

Once the 1st round was done, there were absolutely no DE's that were both run stuffers and pass rushers left. This class was talented at the top but the talent pool was very shallow.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Merling was not known as a pass rusher in college at all SHF. Drafting a kid that had 12 sacks in 3 years at Clemson wasn't going to do anything but blow a pick on a kid that wouldn't be able to beat a 35 year old Daniels for a starting gig.

Once the 1st round was done, there were absolutely no DE's that were both run stuffers and pass rushers left. This class was talented at the top but the talent pool was very shallow.

I agree with you regarding the pass rushing, I saw him play plenty though and the kid is going to be a very good DE. Having a young run stuffer like that would have been very nice for the pipeline

[whitejimmy]

Well, I think it's true that the Redskins didn't draft exclusively based on their most pressing needs, and I think it's a good thing. Do you think the Raiders regret taking Bo Jackson when they already had Marcus Allen on the roster? So what if we didn't prioritize our needs and draft in that order.

[Mr. S]

I agree with you regarding the pass rushing, I saw him play plenty though and the kid is going to be a very good DE. Having a young run stuffer like that would have been very nice for the pipeline

I agree. He may have just been a younger Phillip Daniels, but a younger Phillip Daniels is better than the injury-prone and older one we have. I still wish Daniels could have played. However, Merling already had the run-stuffing ability down well. I think his technique for rushing could have improved. Maybe not to the level of Gaines Adams/Mario Williams/Derrick Harvey or Chris Long types, but it certainly could have improved. He had a great season when Gaines Adams was alongside him, and he would have had a similar player in Andre Carter here.

[ZoEd]

Bulldog you're spot on my friend.

That's what I find the most comical about the media. Last season all you heard was how bad our receiver corp was; no true #2 and no big "posession" guys for the red zone. We don't build through the draft, waste picks etc. We get two top rated WR's and THE top rated TE and we had a poor draft although we addressed what the mediots said we were lacking last season.

We didn't get the pass rushing DE we so desperately needed in the draft so were idiots. We go out and get arguably the best DE to play in the NFL for the past 11 years, minus Strahan, and we're idots because he's over the hill. Over the hill with 11 sacks and a Pro Bowl last season on a 1-15 team.

We just need to deal with the fact that Dallas does no wrong and we suck. It's the nature of the beast and as Redskin fans we should be used to it. I mean Vinny is getting beat up for lying to the mediots even though other teams were making a run at JT. Why show your hand when teams are just going to run up the price. Stupid, stupid Vinny for trying to save us some money while landing the player we need. Wait a minute, Dallas is brilliant for signing a CB who hasn't even been cleared to play this season. What were we thinking?

[Fred Jones]

I agree. He may have just been a younger Phillip Daniels, but a younger Phillip Daniels is better than the injury-prone and older one we have. I still wish Daniels could have played. However, Merling already had the run-stuffing ability down well. I think his technique for rushing could have improved. Maybe not to the level of Gaines Adams/Mario Williams/Derrick Harvey or Chris Long types, but it certainly could have improved. He had a great season when Gaines Adams was alongside him, and he would have had a similar player in Andre Carter here.

Good post, I think the skins targeted him with that first second round pick. Miami liked him and knew he wouldn't last long so they selected him. Vinny said they were surprised Thomas was still there and selected him instead.

Merling is the only player I want to watch in the coming years. What would Merling/Kelly/Davis look like in the future? Just have to wait and see. If Thomas develops I don't think it matters because Merling was not going to post 10 plus sack numbers, but getting another Daniels would have been nice.

[Area51]

Everyone complains about Daniels' lack of pass rushing and how we need a better pass rusher at LDE. Now people are saying "it would've been nice to have a younger Daniels" referring to Philip Merling. No matter what the Redskins do, people will always criticize them.

[Morneblade]

Bulldog you're spot on my friend.

That's what I find the most comical about the media. Last season all you heard was how bad our receiver corp was; no true #2 and no big "posession" guys for the red zone. We don't build through the draft, waste picks etc. We get two top rated WR's and THE top rated TE and we had a poor draft although we addressed what the mediots said we were lacking last season.

We didn't get the pass rushing DE we so desperately needed in the draft so were idiots. We go out and get arguably the best DE to play in the NFL for the past 11 years, minus Strahan, and we're idots because he's over the hill. Over the hill with 11 sacks and a Pro Bowl last season on a 1-15 team.

We just need to deal with the fact that Dallas does no wrong and we suck. It's the nature of the beast and as Redskin fans we should be used to it. I mean Vinny is getting beat up for lying to the mediots even though other teams were making a run at JT. Why show your hand when teams are just going to run up the price. Stupid, stupid Vinny for trying to save us some money while landing the player we need. Wait a minute, Dallas is brilliant for signing a CB who hasn't even been cleared to play this season. What were we thinking?

Not going after Campbell or Groves was a mistake...........untill we went and got James. Getting Taylor just makes that move even better, giving him time to get 100% and not feel like we have to rush him back. If Taylor only plays 2 years, James will be 27 (still young) and fully healed and be ready to be the starter.

As for the rest of the draft (outside Davis) I thought it was a very good one. I still really question the Davis pick, but it is what it is. I'm glad that Rinehart is playing real well @ LT with the #1 line as well. I expected that he would be really good, but it's nice to hear that he is already playing well.

[XxSpearheadxX]

very well concieved thread. Nice read.

[ZoEd]

Not going after Campbell or Groves was a mistake...........untill we went and got James. Getting Taylor just makes that move even better, giving him time to get 100% and not feel like we have to rush him back. If Taylor only plays 2 years, James will be 27 (still young) and fully healed and be ready to be the starter.

As for the rest of the draft (outside Davis) I thought it was a very good one. I still really question the Davis pick, but it is what it is. I'm glad that Rinehart is playing real well @ LT with the #1 line as well. I expected that he would be really good, but it's nice to hear that he is already playing well.

I don't necessarily agree with that. Campbell nor Groves were outstanding so who knows if they would have filled a need or not? You have the same problem with any rookie but our first three picks were the top two WR and the #1 TE. Why pass on such highly rated players just to fill a supposed need with lower rated DE's? I think the picks were smart, frivolous maybe but smart none the less. We've been missing a red zone threat for quite sometime so if just one of these guys pan out we'll be that much better as an offense and our D was solid with what we already had. :2cents:

I'd just like the media to pick a story line and run with. Quit changing the story to make the Skins look like idiots. Do we or don't we have a need? When we fill that need why is it never good enough? Look at the headlines. If Dallas would have landed Taylor they'd be Superbowl bound. Hell they have the best CB's in football even though one of them isn't even allowed to play. I guess old Pacman is going to ghost tackle.

[Oldskool]

Not going after Campbell or Groves was a mistake...........untill we went and got James. Getting Taylor just makes that move even better, giving him time to get 100% and not feel like we have to rush him back. If Taylor only plays 2 years, James will be 27 (still young) and fully healed and be ready to be the starter..

Sorry man but I strongly disagree. Groves really is too small to play DE in this league full time. He'll make a great 3-4 OLB for someone. Campbell falls in the same boat but he's more of a DE in that system; he really is too slow and lacks pass rushing skills to be an effective 4-3 DE.

We got damn lucky to get Taylor and thereby have the ability to evaluate Erasmus James. James has great cap numbers (2008: $695,000, 2009: $1 million, 2010: Free Agent) and is under contract for the same length of time that Taylor is. If he is healthy and has stable knees, he saves us from using a 1st day pick on a DE in the next year or two.

[SkinFaninOKC]

On draft day I was skeptical about trading down but getting extra picks in the second round is a good thing no matter what. Then I was upset we drafted Malcom Kelly after taking a WR earlier. Later in the day my mind was changed. Adding Fred Davis to the mix makes us even deeper. I was just overreacting to drafting 2 WR's in the same round when I thought the FO would meet other needs.

I was elated when we drafted Brooks. Derrick Frost was a ****ing roller coaster.

Drafting Colt Brennen was intriguing. It couldn't hurt. I think he could make the team, he has the talent, and Zorn could "coach him up".

[squatch66]

Sorry man but I strongly disagree. Groves really is too small to play DE in this league full time. He'll make a great 3-4 OLB for someone. Campbell falls in the same boat but he's more of a DE in that system; he really is too slow and lacks pass rushing skills to be an effective 4-3 DE.

We got damn lucky to get Taylor and thereby have the ability to evaluate Erasmus James. James has great cap numbers (2008: $695,000, 2009: $1 million, 2010: Free Agent) and is under contract for the same length of time that Taylor is. If he is healthy and has stable knees, he saves us from using a 1st day pick on a DE in the next year or two.

great argument oldskool. i agree with everything except for campbell. i just think that the coaching staff here(palermo especially) could have whipped his ass into shape.

[dswerdlw]

Great thread.

I, too, was dismayed when we took Davis, but listening to Zorn and co. talk about the run/pass possibilities offered by the 2 tight end set makes me excited. In truth, I get the feeling from Zorn that our offense is being built around Cooley's talents, and that's smart since he is a great player. But, if he gets injured we can't afford to have anything but a real talent behind him (no offense to Yoder, who I like). In other words, Davis was a need pick for the new offensive stategy.

As for the D-Line stuff, I think Campbell was never a sure bet, and Groves seems like more of a hybrid LB/DE than a straight-ahead d-lineman. Demetric Evans, from what I'm hearing, is making up his mind to be our new Philip Daniels type, as Daniels was his mentor. So I don't think we lost too much by not getting Merling. Erasmus James is the real wildcard. He's a Jason Taylor type, and will learn alot playing behind JT, I hope. We could be set up real nicely there. It would be great to not need a DE in the next couple of drafts, especially since we gave up that 2nd rounder for JT.

My sense is that our focus will be on LB for our 1st pick next year. And then we'll look at DT and CB, and maybe a Center. But I'm willing to be surprised.

I guess I'm learning to trust Zorn and the FO. I haven't felt this excited about the team's long-term success in quite a while. Perhaps I'm becoming a Zorn-Again Redskin Fan.

[illone]

On paper the Skins had a very successful draft in 2008. Anyone who disagrees is either blind, or a cowgirls fan.

The true grade of this draft won't be found out for a few years, though. My guess is that Thomas and Rinehart will turn out to be keepers and the rest will fall by the wayside.:2cents:

[Gregpeck99]

Great post Bulldog ... this could be the greatest Draft in Redskins history ... especially if Colt becomes "the Man" under Zorn ... as I believe he will.

[Oldfan]

Well, I think it's true that the Redskins didn't draft exclusively based on their most pressing needs, and I think it's a good thing. Do you think the Raiders regret taking Bo Jackson when they already had Marcus Allen on the roster? So what if we didn't prioritize our needs and draft in that order.

Damn right, Jimmy. We are drafting the best player available. In the long run, that will work out to our advantage. But, the media and many fans want to criticize our draft. "Need" is the only way to criticize.

[dfitzo53]

Not going after Campbell or Groves was a mistake...........untill we went and got James. Getting Taylor just makes that move even better, giving him time to get 100% and not feel like we have to rush him back. If Taylor only plays 2 years, James will be 27 (still young) and fully healed and be ready to be the starter.

On draft day I was fully expecting us to take Campbell in Fred Davis's spot, and I was initially disappointed when we didn't. (I still think Davis is an odd pick, but that doesn't necessarily make it a bad one.) The more I read about Campbell though, the less attractive he seemed.

[smooooleeeey]

great point dude, nice post.

The media is blind to reality..

[argentina_redskins]

Although I hate the Davis pick in terms of need, I just checked how the draft went down and there weren't many better options for us. In terms of DEs, only Quentin Groves (more of a 3-4 OLB), and Jason Jones (was projected in the 4th, went in the 2nd) went after Davis. The only good picks could have been Patrick Lee or Terrell Thomas to shore up our depth at CB. I guess I'm not that mad at the pick.

[The Waterboy]

I believe the FO did in fact draft to fix the team's most glaring need - lack of Red Zone production. They drafted to fix an immediate performance problem instead of addressing a future age problem, which is what 90% of everyone is focused on - age.

The defense last year was very respectable and finished in the top 10 performance-wise - age of players notwithstanding. So age of D-line players is a problem, but not an immediate performance problem.

Red Zone performance was a problem because of a lack of personnel who could do the job - again, not an age problem. So the FO attemped to fix the true need of the 2007 version of the Redskins, buy bringing in personnel who could deliver from the Red Zone and win games in the 2008 version of the Redskins. Winning games, after all, is the objective, not merely having a young D-line who can occassionly sack the QB.

[The Sisko]

I agree with you for the most part Bulldog. C. Campbell is going to be a career backup at best and Groves is probably headed for spot duty as a situational pass rusher or might be best suited as a 3-4 outside LB.

Going into this year's draft, we were a team with a lot of weaknesses. One area we were weak at was WR, both due to the lack of size and the propensity for Moss and to a lesser degree Randle El to suffer injuries. Add to that a need for larger receivers and two TE sets in the WCO and we went with a strategy of taking more than one receiver given the high probability that one of them would be a bust, flake out, have an injury etc. Also, let us not forget that WRs take more time to develop than almost any other position outside of QBs so it was important to get them into the pipeline early.

Prior to the draft I was one of the biggest proponents of shoring up our OL and DL and I still am. However, the draft cards to do that early simply weren't dealt to us. Therefore, we had to play the hand we were dealt. Hopefully, Taylor will be willing and able to play for three or four years which will give us time to rebuild the OL/DL/LB/DBs before looking to get another premier DE.

[Dirk Diggler]

Merling was not known as a pass rusher in college at all SHF. Drafting a kid that had 12 sacks in 3 years at Clemson wasn't going to do anything but blow a pick on a kid that wouldn't be able to beat a 35 year old Daniels for a starting gig.

Once the 1st round was done, there were absolutely no DE's that were both run stuffers and pass rushers left. This class was talented at the top but the talent pool was very shallow.

I tell you what though, if we have Merling in the fold (who is very similar to Daniels) then we sure as hell aren't needing to trade a future #2 when the big guy tears his ACL.

Also, had we drafted Merling and Daniels not gone down, there would have been no shame in him being unable to start immediately. I see no reason to believe that Davis/Thomas/Kelly will be starting any time soon.