PFW: Whispers- Gibbsvs. Williams; Zorn gets respect

[Jumbo]

And I also don't like Zorn getting the "nice guy" label. When I heard Sellers talking about how he treats them like adults, what I kinda got from that was that he trusts the players, and I don't think thats a good thing. Hopefully our players don't take advantage of him.

I really hope he's not a pushover like Norv and Spurrier, but part of me fears that he may become just that with all the work he's putting in to install an offense and be the QB coach.

Only time will tell, but everything I know about the guy having been in the area for his entire career says you probably don't need to worry too much. I'm a nice guy too, but no pushover.

Historically, Zorn is a very firm and no-nonsense guy when push comes to shove. But from what I knew, he will be more prone to give you the chance to be self-regulating and an adult until you show you're unable to handle it. While not arrogant, in the past he has not allowed any kind of slack-ass performance or attitude to be an acceptable standard.

Nor is he all formal or uptight. Remember, this guy was a fierce competitor at a high level of the game for a long time. He was tough. I have gone right out front since Day One on this guy being a great choice even as an admittedly big reach, and so far I am only feeling more secure.

[Jumbo]

In other words, G-Dub didn't kiss Danny's butt. That's all there is to it.

With all due and genuine respect, mi amigo, I think there was a lot more to it than that.

[Pedro]

Why do people see a respectful and confident man as weak?

It's the respect given by Zorn to our vets that gets them listening when he talks. The intense yet fun training sessions did the rest. Every media piece I see that has a vet talking about Zorn is positive, hard work yet fun.

As for Williams well good luck to him. Today I'm happy with Zorn as our HC.

Edit:

The point of the vet reference above is that we are in a pretty good position, if you squint. We have a bunch of veteran players who have good character and work ethic plus respect for the Redskins and the game in general. To these we've been adding some young talent who are going to be molded by these vets. They know what they should be doing and so does Zorn. Our people know their role's and are busting a gut to make it all happen. No point shouting up a storm is there?

Zorn was a NFL QB. He was brought up telling big guys what to do. And have it happen or they get replaced. We've yet to see how he goes calling plays etc (though once again being a former NFL QB.....) but as far as commanding authority Zorn does that he just doesn't shout first to do it. Different mojo but IMO not weaker. Not everyone can handle the power of that kind of mojo but most can and we will benefit as a whole despite the odd misfit that will arise.

[corrupt3d]

I mean, I'll be the first to admit that I wanted Grilliams.

But what has happened, has happened. Zorn has my full support.

[Hubbs]

A streamlined coaching hierarchy will do wonders for this team.

I'm a little concerned about the defensive positional coaches, but hopefully Blache has everything under control.

[Thinking Skins]

I just feel like people are putting all these admirable qualities on Zorn before he's actually proven anything about himself. I'm not trying to be a naysayer, just that I don't know what kind of coach he'll be. I'm not saying he'll be a pushover, but its definately possible. I'm also curious to know how the different personalities will clash.

I remember when we first hired Al Saunders, I was saying that I was afraid of a coaching conflict between Gibbs wanting to call the plays if he thought Saunders was doing something wrong. And thats exactly what happened. People were trying to calm me down and tell me that it was going to be okay because he was "Gibbs's guy", etc etc. And we know how it turned out.

If Zorn's a great coach, then great. We're one step closer to a super bowl. even if he's a pushover, we still have a chance to make the palyoffs. Look at what Norv did in San Diego. We can build this team around Portis the same way that Norv built the team around LT.

In similar things, look at what Norv did to Alex Smith when he was there, and what he did to Rivers last year (both in their first years with Norv). I am thinking that Zorn can have a similar impact on JC this year.

[Larry]

Really Greg Williams create friction. Mr. Egotistical?

And people complained we didn't hire him as a coach.

You know of some rule that says "Head Coach" and "Egotistical" aren't compatible?

I thought ego was a job requirement.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I just feel like people are putting all these admirable qualities on Zorn before he's actually proven anything about himself. I'm not trying to be a naysayer, just that I don't know what kind of coach he'll be. I'm not saying he'll be a pushover, but its definately possible. I'm also curious to know how the different personalities will clash.

I remember when we first hired Al Saunders, I was saying that I was afraid of a coaching conflict between Gibbs wanting to call the plays if he thought Saunders was doing something wrong. And thats exactly what happened. People were trying to calm me down and tell me that it was going to be okay because he was "Gibbs's guy", etc etc. And we know how it turned out.

If Zorn's a great coach, then great. We're one step closer to a super bowl. even if he's a pushover, we still have a chance to make the palyoffs. Look at what Norv did in San Diego. We can build this team around Portis the same way that Norv built the team around LT.

In similar things, look at what Norv did to Alex Smith when he was there, and what he did to Rivers last year (both in their first years with Norv). I am thinking that Zorn can have a similar impact on JC this year.

I'm pretty sure that the Chargers were built around LT long before Norv arrived on the scene lol...

And the thing to remember about "all these admirable qualities" being said about Zorn is that all of them are about his character and how he handles himself, his assistants and the players. In that regard, he's shown plenty to deserve praise (or criticism if it were warranted). The things being said don't automatically equate to more wins, but I don't think that's the point right now...people want to know how Zorn is doing and how he's progressing in his first stint as head coach, and giving reports as to how the players are responding helps us understand just that.

[SkinsRPS81]

Great to hear. And I don't think the news about Williams is surprising considering moves he made on the field, such as 10 men without telling Gibbs

I think I recall hearing in advance that we were going to play 10 men on the first defensive play. I think the head coach knew. Does anyone else remember hearing before the game about the 10 men on defense tribute?

[Thinking Skins]

Great to hear. And I don't think the news about Williams is surprising considering moves he made on the field, such as 10 men without telling Gibbs

I think I recall hearing in advance that we were going to play 10 men on the first defensive play. I think the head coach knew.

yeah, I've got a feeling Gibbs knew and said NO, and GW probably just said he'd do it anyway.

[McD5]

Good riddance Williams.

[McD5]

I find this hard to believe.

Williams was always complimentary to Gibbs and seemed to defer to him always.

I can believe that Williams may have had problems with coaches on the offense be it Saunders or Bugel or whomever but I think he always knew and respected that Gibbs was the guy in charge of the entire organization.

I could see the possiblility that Williams viewed himself as the next guy in line right behind Gibbs (he would be right by the way) and that perhaps Gibbs' cronies (Bugel, Breaux, Simmons) due to their history and relationship with Gibbs viewed themselves as being further up the totem pole than Williams regardless of job titles and this could cause some tension. But that's just speculation.

I do agree with what has been said in this thread that the players "liking" Zorn may not be such a good thing but we'll have to wait and see how things turn out when they actually start playing games.

Nothing "hard to believe" about this at all.

Gibbs didn't even know about the ten man tribute to Taylor. That was after a long week together and round-trip flight to Miami.

Either Gibbs was so far out in space, and was doing absolutely nothing in the coaching aspect......or Williams just ran over him.

Either way.....honestly, they both sucked.

Good riddance to both of them........I do feel sorry for Al, and for us however.

[SUpartyCommish]

One of the best things the 'Skins did in coaching staff adjustments this off season was dismissing G Wiliams after not offering the head coaching position to him. The last thing we needed with a new coaching staff was a holdover with a chip on their shoulder.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Nothing "hard to believe" about this at all.

Gibbs didn't even know about the ten man tribute to Taylor. That was after a long week together and round-trip flight to Miami.

Either Gibbs was so far out in space, and was doing absolutely nothing in the coaching aspect......or Williams just ran over him.

Either way.....honestly, they both sucked.

Good riddance to both of them........I do feel sorry for Al, and for us however.

I echo every sentiment you wrote.

[TheLongshot]

Gregg has an ego but he got those guys to play with spark and his defensive play calling had imagination. Actually when I read about Blache's simplified version of Gregg's system, I shudder a little. Wasn't that what Edwards said when he took over Marvin Lewis' D?

The simplification of the defense happened last year. You know, after that disaster of a season in 2006?

A lot of the stuff that Blache is saying this year came out of Williams' mouth last year.

Jason

[BthatRAD09]

zorn was the right hire...no doubt in my mind. hes going to give us an offense that suits our team and he lets the players chill and have fun

[tml6157]

As much as I love Gibbs, I would love to see him in the FO. The game has truely passed him by. I remember when he came back I was so stoked because I didn't really get to see much of Gibbs 1.0. That being said, many times as I sat and watched this team lose, I felt that we should have had someone else coaching and not JG.

IMO Zorn was an great pick for HC. To me he is the new mold of NFL coaches. Myself playing football, I hated the hard ass coach who was always screaming and belittling myself and the my teammates. My HS coach died when I was a jr and our assistant took over my sr year. He was more laid back and let us have fun playing and wasnt the in your face name calling coach like my old HC. Personally I wanted to play harder for the more laid back guy because he wasnt just a coach he was a good friend and thats how I feel Zorn is going to be. He has the respect of our players and has them loose. We have team chemistry and that plays a HUGE part in the success of Zorn. You put Zorn and his laid back personality in Dallas and those media whore *******s would walk all over him because they have no team chemistry. They are too me me me me for him. We aren't like that. Thats why I think Zorn will work here. Gibbs 2.0 was successful to get us back on track to the type of team we needed to have. He set this FO in the right direction, just look at this last offseason and draft. 10 draft picks! When was the last time we had that?

[Thinking Skins]

As much as I love Gibbs, I would love to see him in the FO. The game has truely passed him by. I remember when he came back I was so stoked because I didn't really get to see much of Gibbs 1.0. That being said, many times as I sat and watched this team lose, I felt that we should have had someone else coaching and not JG.

IMO Zorn was an great pick for HC. To me he is the new mold of NFL coaches. Myself playing football, I hated the hard ass coach who was always screaming and belittling myself and the my teammates. My HS coach died when I was a jr and our assistant took over my sr year. He was more laid back and let us have fun playing and wasnt the in your face name calling coach like my old HC. Personally I wanted to play harder for the more laid back guy because he wasnt just a coach he was a good friend and thats how I feel Zorn is going to be. He has the respect of our players and has them loose. We have team chemistry and that plays a HUGE part in the success of Zorn. You put Zorn and his laid back personality in Dallas and those media whore *******s would walk all over him because they have no team chemistry. They are too me me me me for him. We aren't like that. Thats why I think Zorn will work here. Gibbs 2.0 was successful to get us back on track to the type of team we needed to have. He set this FO in the right direction, just look at this last offseason and draft. 10 draft picks! When was the last time we had that?

Sorry, but I would HATE to see Gibbs in the front office. Gibbs is not a personnel guy. If It was left to Gibbs, we wouldn't have a draft at all - instead relying on a bunch of overpriced free agent busts. I don't think Gibbs set the FO in the right direction. I honestly think thats Vinny's doing. Vinny's the one who traded down. Gibbs was notorious for trading up for players we probably could have gotten with our original picks

Remember: Jason Campbell and Rocky McIntosh, not to mention Clinton Portis, Brandon Lloyd, and TJ Duckett. Nah, Gibbs was a good direction for this team, but I'm glad he's gone. Hopefully Zorn can light a fire under the offense's belly and get them playing at a higher level, while keeping the defense and special teams playing at a high level.

[Xameil]

I question the loyalty of some of you folks as REDSKINS fans. You praise a guy (like Greg Williams) when he's here, and bash him as soon as he's no longer a Redskin. Just like a typical Philly fan would. Antonio Pierce (Giants LB who was terrific with the Skins. Became a free-agent and signed a big contract with NY.....he'd have been a fool not to take their offer) has gotten the same treatment from some of you.

lol yeah exactly...we are fans of the REDSKINS...not our castoffs .

Williams was bashed ALOT when he was here, what have you been smoking?

Pierce is bashed, because of things he said about the redskins...you know the team we root for? So who is the true fan of the team...US, or you and your will to cheer on EX-Redskins...hmmm?

GW, had potential...IF he abandoned his old coaching ways, but hearing that he undermined Gibbs and continued to be an ego maniac, shows he will NEVER be the HC we need...DC sure, but he will fail as a HC again....and I emphasize AGAIN

[Sonny9TD]

Only time will tell, but everything I know about the guy having been in the area for his entire career says you probably don't need to worry too much. I'm a nice guy too, but no pushover.

Historically, Zorn is a very firm and no-nonsense guy when push comes to shove. But from what I knew, he will be more prone to give you the chance to be self-regulating and an adult until you show you're unable to handle it. While not arrogant, in the past he has not allowed any kind of slack-ass performance or attitude to be an acceptable standard.

Nor is he all formal or uptight. Remember, this guy was a fierce competitor at a high level of the game for a long time. He was tough. I have gone right out front since Day One on this guy being a great choice even as an admittedly big reach, and so far I am only feeling more secure.

Zorn has earned his stripes already in my opinion. For example Zorn has already ran to meet one of the recievers (Malcolm Kelley?) when the reciever stopped running and told him to run through the pattern so the QB can see how far he actually did overthrow him, or when Shawn Springs gets called out for goofing off after intercepting the ball and Zorn told him to hold on to it since you deserve it after intercepting, then Jim Zorn I think has already earned the players respect. I look forward to the Hogs kicking some Dallas azz this year in a most overwhelming fashion.

:cheers:

:dallasuck

[Xameil]

yeah, I've got a feeling Gibbs knew and said NO, and GW probably just said he'd do it anyway.

yeah...you think? well...where did you ever see that?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/02/AR2007120201802.html?sid=ST2007120201816

It was [Williams] who made the decision and we agreed," defensive end Phillip Daniels said in the Redskins' locker room

We did it [saturday] night. We just felt comfortable starting the game that way. No one disagreed. Everyone said, 'This is what we're gonna do.' I think it was a great tribute to him. That's what we had to do. We had to put him somewhere out there with us."

only mention I see about Gibbs is...

Still, Coach Joe Gibbs mostly avoided the topic when asked about it during his postgame news conference.

"It's probably better for me to talk to Gregg about it before I comment on it," Gibbs said.

Williams said later: "Defensively we got together and we knew we could minimize any kind of explosive play

looks like Gibbs was pissed he wasn't informed to me. That it was just Defense talking about it.

[Thinking Skins]

^ But the formation had been discussed here on Extremeskins well before saturday night. Thats why I say Gibbs had probably heard about it beforehand and said no. Knowing how conservative Gibbs is, he probably thought it would lead to a big play. Then we see all the stuff about GW trying to prevent a big play - I kinda imagine he went above Gibbs's head with that one, adn Gibbs wasn't too happy.

[Xameil]

^ But the formation had been discussed here on Extremeskins well before saturday night. Thats why I say Gibbs had probably heard about it beforehand and said no. Knowing how conservative Gibbs is, he probably thought it would lead to a big play. Then we see all the stuff about GW trying to prevent a big play - I kinda imagine he went above Gibbs's head with that one, adn Gibbs wasn't too happy.

it was ALL speculation, and you think Gibbs' religiously reads ES?!? I heard ALOT about what was going to happen including Buffalo knew about it, and things they were going to do. I have a feeling it was never discussed, or Williams lied to Gibbs.

I think its more feasible that Williams would have lied to Gibbs then Gibbs not going for this. I don't see Gibbs saying no to this, especially if his Veteran players brought it up to him.

[Skinsinparadise]

Tough for me to tell about Zorn but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. All I can go by is what I read:

Pluses:

Great QB coach who will make Campbell better

Open offense as opposed to the conservative one we ran

Sounds like an innovative play caller

Players seem to like him

Like Gibbs from what I read he's a good guy has integrity

Potential negatives:

Don't know what to make of him not liking to work late. By his own admission he's not a Gruden or a Gibbs in that regard.

Is he a discipline guy? And if not, plenty of offensive guru player coaches, not just Norv, have simply not made it as a head coach, and go back to being coordinators

For the heck of it I'll do Blache too.

Pluses:

Players like him, sounds like there might have been a mini mutiny if Gregg was replaced by an outsider

Understands the defense

Made much out of a D line that arguably isn't that talented

Seems to be good at developing players

Was a defensive coordinator before

Seems like a great guy based on his interviews and what I've read

Negatives

At 58 and contemplating retirement, how much fire in the belly does he have left

Simplified version of Gregg's defense? Does that mean a more predictable less innovative version of it?

The Redskins D arguably overacheived based on their talent -- is that partly due to Gregg's fire and innovation? Blache seems more tame (although I've heard on talk shows he can get fired up, he's just not as intense) and he said he won't go much for the complexity of Gregg's defense and will just let them go out there and play -- will that lend to this D being average as opposed to special?

[IbleedBnG83]

In response to someones comments earlier, I don't think players will try and take adavantage of Zorn at all. He has a lot of attributes that players like and will respond well too. Just b/c Mike Sellers said he treats us like adults, means, if anythign, they will respond beter. Zorn isn't a pushover and will sit people if need be.

Althought I was crazy about not getting Gregg Williams, I do think Zorn was a good hire from the beginning. I think he is a breath of fresh air and has a good football background from being a player to coaching under Holmgren.