PFW: Whispers- Gibbsvs. Williams; Zorn gets respect

[scruffylookin]

I find this hard to believe.

Williams was always complimentary to Gibbs and seemed to defer to him always.

I can believe that Williams may have had problems with coaches on the offense be it Saunders or Bugel or whomever but I think he always knew and respected that Gibbs was the guy in charge of the entire organization.

I could see the possiblility that Williams viewed himself as the next guy in line right behind Gibbs (he would be right by the way) and that perhaps Gibbs' cronies (Bugel, Breaux, Simmons) due to their history and relationship with Gibbs viewed themselves as being further up the totem pole than Williams regardless of job titles and this could cause some tension. But that's just speculation.

I do agree with what has been said in this thread that the players "liking" Zorn may not be such a good thing but we'll have to wait and see how things turn out when they actually start playing games.

[AAARedskin]

I question the loyalty of some of you folks as REDSKINS fans. You praise a guy (like Greg Williams) when he's here, and bash him as soon as he's no longer a Redskin. Just like a typical Philly fan would. Antonio Pierce (Giants LB who was terrific with the Skins. Became a free-agent and signed a big contract with NY.....he'd have been a fool not to take their offer) has gotten the same treatment from some of you.

[No Excuses]

Yeah, Grilliams was egotistical, but he is still one of the best D-coordinators in football right now.

And we let him walk. Had we just hired Zorn as HC and kept williams at DC to play out his contract, Zorn woulda let Williams let him run things the way he wanted on defense.

Gregg wouldn't have stayed here as a DC. I'm definite it was HC or bust for him. Too much ego to take a backseat to an outsider like Zorn.

btw I like Zorn.

[Xameil]

Cause I'm sure gibbs was putting his 2 cents into waht to do on defense, which is why Williams would undermine him.

But I dunno, even if I but heads with someone, I still learn something. I woulda thought that Grilliams woulda done the same.

I don't know if Gibbs did or not? Do you? I have a feeling he didn't but thats my :2cents:

[SkinsHokieFan]

Yeah, Grilliams was egotistical, but he is still one of the best D-coordinators in football right now.

And we let him walk. Had we just hired Zorn as HC and kept williams at DC to play out his contract, Zorn woulda let Williams let him run things the way he wanted on defense.

Uh, there is no way Grilliams would have stayed here as DC. It was head coach or bust for him

[No Excuses]

I question the loyalty of some of you folks as REDSKINS fans. You praise a guy (like Greg Williams) when he's here, and bash him as soon as he's no longer a Redskin. Just like a typical Philly fan would. Antonio Pierce (Giants LB who was terrific with the Skins. Became a free-agent and signed a big contract with NY.....he'd have been a fool not to take their offer) has gotten the same treatment from some of you.

Why would you talk about your ex girlfriend when you have a brand new one?

You get what I'm saying... I don't think people dislike Gregg Williams. I don't seem to see anyone saying ZOMG HE SUCKZ!!! Antonio Pierce on the other hand trashes us every chance he gets. Have you heard him on the radio? Hes obnoxious. All he talks about his how we screwed him and LaVar over.

Excuse us for not kissing ass to someone who obviously has a dislike for us.

[Skinsinparadise]

I recall Portis quote last year about how the defense practiced with so much more intensity than the offense.

Gregg has an ego but he got those guys to play with spark and his defensive play calling had imagination. Actually when I read about Blache's simplified version of Gregg's system, I shudder a little. Wasn't that what Edwards said when he took over Marvin Lewis' D?

I worry that simpler is a code word for lazier & more predictable. Part of Gregg's ingenuity was his blitzes, players could come from anywhere, etc. How does Gregg's defense work without the ingenuity? Well, I guess we will find out.

I love Gibbs but I hate to say it but spark and imagination isn't anything I'd equate with the offensive side of the ball in his 2nd go of it.

Also Williams had the reputation for being super organized. Gibbs once had the same rep but this time he seemed to be at times a deer in the headlights when it came to clock management, time outs, and famously didn't recall the rules in the Buffalo game, etc.

In many ways it was a tale of two cities between those coaches. Having said all that it also strikes me possible that people assumed that Gregg wouldn't always cooperate for those reasons as opposed to it being reality.

Publicly at least Gregg gushed about Gibbs. And personally am a big fan of both Gibbs and Williams. Actually so far I like Zorn, too. My one worry is with some exceptions like Vermeil -- I tend to think of the better coaches as discipline oriented like a Jimmy Johnson, Cowher, Parcells as opposed to player coaches.

[michael_33]

Greg Williams was arrogant..no doubt. But I know he had to look at Gibbs and think "This old guy has lost it and I know I could do a better job."

And he probably was right.

What the hell has Williams ever won..huh?

I think we had to many Chiefs and not enough indians running the show IMO!

Had we just gone with Gibbs and a young OFF. coordinator,we probably would have been better off...

What will be fun is when Williams and Del Rio clash and the Jags "don't live up to their expectations"...

[jthor99]

Another "inside sources" type story? I don't know how much weight to put on this. And I also don't like Zorn getting the "nice guy" label. When I heard Sellers talking about how he treats them like adults, what I kinda got from that was that he trusts the players, and I don't think thats a good thing. Hopefully our players don't take advantage of him.

I really wonder which coaching personality Zorn will be more like between Norv, Marty, Spurrier, Gibbs and Williams. I really hope he's not a pushover like Norv and Spurrier, but part of me fears that he may become just that with all the work he's putting in to install an offense and be the QB coach.

Wait. So, you don't think its a good thing that he TRUSTS his players?

Thats a statement you don't here everyday.

I personally, don't know how much weight this story holds either (but I believe it is more than likely true given Coach Williams Ego history).

Here's my thing. Coaches like Lovie Smith, Tony Dungy are type of guys who are labled as "nice" head coaches. They have been pretty darn successful. Players WANT to play for people like that. I'm excited for Coach Zorn being here. It's his first oppurtunity and you get this sense about him that he's goign to do everything in his power to get it right.

[Thinking Skins]

jthor99, I just don't want the players to take advantage of him. You mention Dungy and Lovie, but Norv was also a gut the players 'trusted'. I wonder if 'trust' is another word for 'pushover'. thats all.

[cphil006]

Zorn commands respect. Period. He has the opportunity of a lifetime and knows it. He won;t blow it.

[DiscoBob]

Maybe yes, maybe no, but it's always easy to pin your problems on the guy who left....

[Walking Deadman]

jthor99, I just don't want the players to take advantage of him. You mention Dungy and Lovie, but Norv was also a gut the players 'trusted'. I wonder if 'trust' is another word for 'pushover'. thats all.

I don't think Zorn= Norv Turner and that the trust/nice guy= pushover

from the last line of the article:

"Zorn, we are told, has earned the respect of the veterans and is being treated as a nice guy who is not a pushover and is both competitive and intense."

To me respect is that the players (and the coaches) are buying into Zorn's system. From what I've seen and read, Zorn is much more willing to open up the O which had been a grumbling point that a few of the players had mentioned wasn't happening in Gibbs 2.0 (and the fans were saying the same thing here).

Zorn's not a dick like Parcells or some other coaches. Gibbs by most was considered a nice guy and I don't think throughout most of his tenure he was a pushover. And no I'm not saying Zorn is the next Gibbs.

But even though Zorn is a teacher, we've already seen that if there is something he doesn't like he'll make it clear (ex: yelling at Springs and Smoot during mini-camp about laterals).

But it's too early to tell what Zorn will be like during his tenure, but I like the early news.

[@DCGoldPants]

Sources? Unnamed sources?

Where is the hate and anger? Aren't we supposed to hate this type of reporting?

[drowland]

Zorn commands respect. Period. He has the opportunity of a lifetime and knows it. He won;t blow it.

Where have I heard this before? So far so good, but let's remember Zorn's still very much in the honeymoon phase of the job. He hasn't had to make any real tough decisions yet. There's all kinds of love in the air now, but that can change quick.

[Walking Deadman]

Sources? Unnamed sources?

Where is the hate and anger? Aren't we supposed to hate this type of reporting?

Damn unnamed sources

BTW: I listened to the PFW weekly podcast and they repeated this story but said that the unnamed source was somebody who was there during Gibbs 2.0 (the way they described it sounded like a coach to me) and said the 10 men Sean tribute was a prime example of Williams doing things without making Gibbs aware.

And this why (unknown source) I thought Larry would/should have his source meter on Red for this one (if it was in the Post).

But it was Redskins news and I posted it for you to either enjoy, ignore or bash.

Take it however you want to.

[MustangSteve]

I don't know if you felt it the past 4 years, but I certainly felt the tension that was at Redskins Park at times. Just not having that could do wonders

Im not too sure if Gibbs brought any tension on any player. This is the same coach that allowed the Hogs, the Fun Bunch and the 5 O-clock club, all in the same year and won the SuperBowl.

He let Portis be who he wanted to be, and that was many different people :laugh:

Gibbs brought "Dicipline" He took out the cell phones from practice that Spurrier allowed, and he taught something very old that still works today, and that is hard work will always pay off in the end.

You couldnt have anymore tension then to have a sign in your locker room stating 5 in a row or we dont go, and win those 5 games with a coach who stresses you. Dicipline is what makes a champion and a team, Im sure Zorn has learned that as well, Seattle was in a SuperBowl, and are a very diciplined team as well.

If Jim Zorn doesnt have this dicipline, we will see this team fall apart and fast.

[bulldog]

You don't have the same dynamic at play now because there is no assistant on the staff that is currently in a position to challenge Zorn. Blache wanted to retire in the offseason and at 58 is not a candidate to be a head coach. Bugel is too long in the tooth to be a HC anymore.

During the period of 2004-2007 you DID have that dynamic tension with Williams being a HC candidate and the Redskins trying to make things work by continually enriching his contract and offering him more perks.

It was an unnatural situation that went on here and for too long in my opinion.

In Gibbs I, you didn't have anyone in such a position. When a Dan Henning or Joe Bugel left, the team was able to replace them with guys like Jim Hanifan who continued the run of success.

[Thinking Skins]

I sure hope you're right. But we'll learn a lot about Zorn's personality this coming training camp, and this coming season. I really wonder how he's going to deal with things like players not wanting to practice, discipline in the locker room, a player getting into trouble, JC struggling early, conflict between the secondary coaches, etc.

We may have already seen some positive if there was actually an argument between picking Davis vs. Campbell, and us getting James may have been how it was resolved. I wonder if Campbell has a good year and if James and Davis don't, how will he handle mumblings from his coaching staff and the reporters that we made a bad pick.

These are all things that we can't predict right now (but I'm sure it won't stop us from hypothesizing), but they'll go a long way in determining how well we perform this year.

But I'm a glass 3/4 full kinda guy. So until the numbers say we can't go all the way (and like Hillary and Huckabee, maybe a little past), I'm gonna be saying its Redskins in the SB this year!

[corrupt3d]

Damn unnamed sources

BTW: I listened to the PFW weekly podcast and they repeated this story but said that the unnamed source was somebody who was there during Gibbs 2.0 (the way they described it sounded like a coach to me) and said the 10 men Sean tribute was a prime example of Williams doing things without making Gibbs aware.

And this why (unknown source) I thought Larry would/should have his source meter on Red for this one (if it was in the Post).

But it was Redskins news and I posted it for you to either enjoy, ignore or bash.

Take it however you want to.

I'd lose respect for ANYONE who got mad because Grilliams did that. Even Gibbs.

That said, I doubt Gibbs and Williams clashed over that.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

I'd lose respect for ANYONE who got mad because Grilliams did that. Even Gibbs.

That said, I doubt Gibbs and Williams clashed over that.

Gregg should have told Joe, period.

If Joe had a problem with it (which I seriously doubt he would have), then I would have been disappointed in Joe--but Gregg should have told him about it.

[skinsince72]

Gregg had several oppurtunities to prove to Dan why he should be HC and he didn't. Who knows what was said in the interviews? But whatever was said, Zorn said it better. Dan knew that getting rid of Gregg would be a test for the defense and did it anyway. Gregg ran a great D scheme but something was off. There may have been questions to how players would react to Gregg running the whole show.

We have to remember, Gregg was a HC at one time.And, even though Zorn never has had HC or OC experience, he worked VERY closely w/ both and has a unique perspective from being a player at one point. Zorn is not feeling his way through this by any means. He has most likely planned to be in this position.

[Hiro]

Another "inside sources" type story? I don't know how much weight to put on this. And I also don't like Zorn getting the "nice guy" label. When I heard Sellers talking about how he treats them like adults, what I kinda got from that was that he trusts the players, and I don't think thats a good thing. Hopefully our players don't take advantage of him.

I really wonder which coaching personality Zorn will be more like between Norv, Marty, Spurrier, Gibbs and Williams. I really hope he's not a pushover like Norv and Spurrier, but part of me fears that he may become just that with all the work he's putting in to install an offense and be the QB coach.

I wouldn't put Zorn and Spurrier in the same sentence because it seems to me that Zorn's work-ethic is triple that of what the lazy Spurrier had. Plus, from what I read in the OTA reports, Zorn is a guy that seems to have a hand in everything that happens, rather than just focusing on the offense like Spurrier did.

While Zorn does come off as a nice guy, he also comes off as a person that you don't want to get on the bad side of. He's giving our vets the benefit of the doubt by trusting them and treating them like adults. But that one quote of him yelling at Springs for goofing around in practice with the lateral move showed to me that he's going to demand respect, and it seems thus far that he's gotten it.

So far, I'm liking everything that I hear about Zorny.

[hail2skins]

Gregg had several oppurtunities to prove to Dan why he should be HC and he didn't.

In other words, G-Dub didn't kiss Danny's butt. That's all there is to it.

[Thinking Skins]

In other words, G-Dub didn't kiss Danny's butt. That's all there is to it.

possibly. But given how Danny treated Marty (which I didn't like), maybe Danny knew that he wouldn't get along with GW so he decided to just let him go.