Is it possible,that games like "Grand Theft Auto" are the reason for murders n such?

[greenspandan]

look, i'll buy that music can influence a person socially. a teen that listens to dead kennedys and billy bragg during his formative years (politically) is likely to drift leftwards and a kid that listens to ted nugent and kid rock is likely to drift rightwards.

can rap music influence how a kid thinks about women or materialism? yeah i guess i can buy that.

but can a video game desensitize a kid to violence to the point where it increases his propensity for murder? i really don't see this happening. kids don't get enough credit for their ability to distinguish between fantasy and reality, or separate spots/games from reality.

in fact, i believe we are hardwired to engage in limited violent play. every culture has sports that incorporate some form of various degrees of simulated violence. even chess is a simulation of war. i think there's a special mental mode the mind enters when we're engaged in sports or games. the brain, even an adolescent one, is amazing at keeping that stuff in its place when it is in the context of a sport or game. just think of all the football players who are monsters on the field but teddy bears off of it (sure, some of them can't behave off the field, but personally i attribute it to a lack of accountability during their entire lives, not spillover from on-field violence). humans are great at compartmentalising violence into sports/game arenas. violence in those contexts generally does not spill outside of those contexts.

kids that play GTA don't go shoot up their school.

however, someone who is f***ed up enough to shoot up their school might certainly be inclined to play a video game that indulges that dark inclination.

but that is by no means the game's fault. thinking rationally, the game isn't the problem there. it is neither the cause of that murderous urge nor the means with which the urge was enacted. in my opinion, what needs further exploration is WHY these kids have the fantasies they do. here's a clue: they don't originate from these games.

(and of coruse there is always the controversial point that this wouldn't have happened if the kid didn't have access to firearms, but that's another thread...)

[PokerPacker]

http://www.pbs.org/kcts/videogamerevolution/impact/myths.html

let pbs answer the questions

[Zguy28]

While this may be true, where do you draw the line. Movies, theater, literature?

Let's be clear, many great works of literature (and you can include the Bible or Shakespeare) do portray brutal acts.

I read King Lear in school and remember very well the scene where his eyes are plucked out. We saw this very graphically on stage too as the live actors appeared to remove and crush his eyes under foot (using grapes). If someone sees that act and decides to blind another person or animal, are we going to blame Shakespeare?

Perhaps the amount of time spent exposed is part of it? I don't know. But you make excellent points.

[Enter Apotheosis]

I was going to quote Destino's last post and say the same thing. As violent as the entertainment biz is, just turn on CNN. If it bleeds, it leads.

Columbine was an event that was blamed on various aspects of popular culture (DOOM, Marilyn Manson, etc.) and received a lot of airtime. It also lead to a few copycat cases... which have, again, been linked back to pop culture. However, it should be very clear that the copycat cases were primarily a result of the media frenzy surrounding Columbine and the posthumous fame attained by Harris and Klebold.

It also doesn't help that people considered Columbine to be unique and completely without precedent. However, violence in schools has been around for a long time (even on a major, tragic scale... just look at the Bath School disaster in 1927 or the University of Texas massacre in 1966). We just keep making excuses for ourselves so that we can find a quick solution and an easy culprit, even if we're dead wrong.

[DariusCyrus]

no, games don't influence kids to do bad...

the parents need to do their job and teach their kids... if kids don't want to listen to those long lectures in the car then smack them in the face a few times and they'll get the point...

[Corcaigh]

... if kids don't want to listen to those long lectures in the car then smack them in the face a few times and they'll get the point...

:laugh:

That'll teach 'em not to be violent.

[DCsportsfan53]

I just find it strange that a "terror" attack in the US seems to be

defined by the nationality/religion of the person who caused it.

I have not heard one mention of this being a "terrorist" attack in

any of the media outlets.

Definitely agree with what's being said in reference to how negatively we view sex and how that makes it not appropriate for younger people but that violence is ok and expected. Our culture is obsessed with violence in many ways, there's no doubt about it.

It's because we restrict sex too much, and ignore violence.

I guarantee you, if it came down to ogling nekkid boobies or shooting a rifle, 14 year old boys would choose the boobies 90 percent of the time.

Would you rather see "Saw III" or "Jenna Haze Does Everything With Everyone" :laugh:

:laugh:

Pass the Haze please.

[DCsportsfan53]

Columbine was an event that was blamed on various aspects of popular culture (DOOM, Marilyn Manson, etc.) and received a lot of airtime. It also lead to a few copycat cases... which have, again, been linked back to pop culture. However, it should be very clear that the copycat cases were primarily a result of the media frenzy surrounding Columbine and the posthumous fame attained by Harris and Klebold.

It also doesn't help that people considered Columbine to be unique and completely without precedent. However, violence in schools has been around for a long time (even on a major, tragic scale... just look at the Bath School disaster in 1927 or the University of Texas massacre in 1966). We just keep making excuses for ourselves so that we can find a quick solution and an easy culprit, even if we're dead wrong.

QFT, didn't want this buried at the bottom of the page.

[DjTj]

But I truly don't remember ever hearing about,witnessing or even someone realistically contemplating doing what we see now on an almost regular basis today!

You must have missed this: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/16/national/main2689785.shtml

Or this: http://www.enidnews.com/opinion/local_story_232005852.html?keyword=topstory

Or this: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/first100/1001214.html

PokerPacker's link tells us that: According to federal crime statistics, the rate of juvenile violent crime in the United States is at a 30-year low.

[PleaseBlitz]

Columbine was an event that was blamed on various aspects of popular culture (DOOM, Marilyn Manson, etc.) and received a lot of airtime. It also lead to a few copycat cases... which have, again, been linked back to pop culture. However, it should be very clear that the copycat cases were primarily a result of the media frenzy surrounding Columbine and the posthumous fame attained by Harris and Klebold.

It also doesn't help that people considered Columbine to be unique and completely without precedent. However, violence in schools has been around for a long time (even on a major, tragic scale... just look at the Bath School disaster in 1927 or the University of Texas massacre in 1966). We just keep making excuses for ourselves so that we can find a quick solution and an easy culprit, even if we're dead wrong.

And even the kid that committed suicide afterwards and people tried to blame Blink 182. :doh:

Columbine is one of those events where everyone in their 20's remembers exactly where they were watching it.

Violence of all forms has been around for as long as humans have been around. I think now people A) get to see it live and in high definition and B)have to rationalize everything and try to understand why everything happens. No one just says "those 2 kids were ****ed up" and leave it at that.

[Stophovr6]

Video Games don't kill people. People kill people.

[Enter Apotheosis]

And even the kid that committed suicide afterwards and people tried to blame Blink 182. :doh:

Adam's Song, right?

Columbine is one of those events where everyone in their 20's remembers exactly where they were watching it.

I can't remember where I was, but I definitely remember all of the discussion about it and the neverending coverage. I actually know someone who was a freshman at columbine when that went down now, too.

Violence of all forms has been around for as long as humans have been around. I think now people A) get to see it live and in high definition and B)have to rationalize everything and try to understand why everything happens. No one just says "those 2 kids were ****ed up" and leave it at that.

High definition is sweet for everything except news coverage.

Psychoanalysis just sucks in general.

[Ellis]

There's no real debate here... EVERYTHING that is wrong with America comes down to parenting. It all begins and ends there.

just my opinion...

[greenspandan]

i remember exactly where i was. sitting in front of my mac at work at Fortner Software watching one of my childhood fantasies come to life. i was an outcast in high school and i thought i was the butt of every joke and the bottom of every totem pole. suicide and homicide were familiar fantasies, but luckily i got help when i needed it. obviously these kids didn't.

i don't think my experience was at all unusual, unfortunately. sometimes i'm surprised that kind of thing doesn't happen more often.

and it sure as hell wasn't video games that made me feel what i felt.

[StillUnknown]

i agree that they have influence, but they are not the reason they committ the act. I think of it as a symptom rather than the actually problem. Blaming videogames and other forms of entertainment is an easy cop out in my opinion.

[Henry]

I blame 24 hour news coverage, not video games.

Yep yep yep.

Bad stuff has happened since the dawn of humanity. Only over the past decade, however, have we heard about every single incident of bad stuff the second it happens.

[Predicto]

Yep yep yep.

Bad stuff has happened since the dawn of humanity. Only over the past decade, however, have we heard about every single incident of bad stuff the second it happens.

And it makes it feel like it just happened to your next door neighbor.

Which explains, for example, why so many people believe that our society is besieged by violent crime, when violent crime is way, way down all over the country.

[Henry]

And it makes it feel like it just happened to your next door neighbor.

Which explains, for example, why so many people believe that our society is besieged by violent crime, when violent crime is way, way down all over the country.

And people are afraid to let their kids play outside anymore. Damn shame if you ask me.

[jbooma]

Yes it is possible but it depends on the person. Media in all forms, radio, games, tv, computers, etc.. can have an impact on how people think. Remember it does not take much to alter the behavior of those that already have some type of mental issue.

There was this one kid who they have done studies on that was arrested for killing some people and he even said when he was killing them it felt like a video game. Remember games are extremely realistic remember pilots use to use flight simulators for training before flying.

Now the person who does the crime is responsible but you can not say media can't help alter someones mind, because it can.

[jbooma]

And it makes it feel like it just happened to your next door neighbor.

Which explains, for example, why so many people believe that our society is besieged by violent crime, when violent crime is way, way down all over the country.

that depends what you consider violent crime, look it is very obvious shooters in public places is a popular way for kids to make their 15 minutes a fame now

i would be curious if we did a study since columbine how many shootings in public places (including the ones where they caught the person before they could kill anyone) have there been compared with the same amount of years prior to columbine

i bet the current number is a lot larger then the previous

[Corcaigh]

And people are afraid to let their kids play outside anymore. Damn shame if you ask me.

Hang on ... I thought we were all supposed to be scared of kids going outside with guns. Make up your mind.

[PokerPacker]

no, we're supposed to be afraid of letting them stay inside with violent video games.

[footballhenry]

Videogames don't 'make' anyone act violently, in the same way movies, and art doesn't 'make' someone act a certain way. It is all up to the individual and their own predispositions and free-will choices.

It would be a huge mistake if we choose to restrict what a 'free-society' can produce (i.e. censorship).

This is all missing the point anyway, the focus should be on mental illnesses and the literal causes of such violence and not a medium of entertainment such as videogames which is often used as the scapegoat.

[Ken]

Come on guys...I'm on the 4th page and no one is close to the reason.

Maybe it had something to do with him being on psychotropic drugs? Maybe it had something to do with being in and out of Mental Health facilities?

Ya think?

MK ULTRA anyone?

Classic case if you ask me.

[Koolblue13]

There's no real debate here... EVERYTHING that is wrong with America comes down to parenting. It all begins and ends there.

just my opinion...

When it's become so much more difficult for the American family to have both parents in the home, with one not working and always caring for the child, it becomes much more that a simple "blame the parent"problem.

Yes it is possible but it depends on the person. Media in all forms, radio, games, tv, computers, etc.. can have an impact on how people think. Remember it does not take much to alter the behavior of those that already have some type of mental issue.

There was this one kid who they have done studies on that was arrested for killing some people and he even said when he was killing them it felt like a video game. Remember games are extremely realistic remember pilots use to use flight simulators for training before flying.

Now the person who does the crime is responsible but you can not say media can't help alter someones mind, because it can.

I ****ing rule at Madden, I'm going down there and taking over this team!