2ND Half Play Calling In Black & White

[JWB]

Notice how the only drive that worked was the drive where we came out in 3 and 4 WR sets? This what I've been advocating. Attack the weakness of the defense and USE OUR TALENT. Don't force our maligned offensive line to power rush against a team that has a BAD SECONDARY. The bottom line is, regardless of whether it was a pass or a run, the play selection up to the final drive was extremely conservative. We should have seriously opened things up a lot earlier than we did. Probably in the 2nd drive of the 2nd half after the 1st one failed.

After watching the first two games in New Jersey, I was able to attend the game yesterday at Fedex Field. What I noticed yesterday, and someone please let me know if this occurred in the first two games (hard to tell watching on TV). 1st- The #2 WR is a platoon system. Randle El, Thrash then Lloyd. They take turns for each drive. I couldn't believe it. No wonder there is no rythym and no throws directed towards them. 2nd - This 1 WR formation with Cooley and Yoder both in the game. This formation was used most of the time in the second half. It looked obvious that we were going to run and of course we did and we were stopped. When we did pass out of that formation there was no one open to throw to. I don't get it. I can tell you one thing, this was not the offense Saunders used in KC. This was pathetic.

[DjTj]

TJ, I've always considered you to be one of the smartest posters on ES, but read that back to yourself and tell me that it doesn't sound a little, well, rediculous. We're not going to have an intermediate passing game b/c we don't have a big receiver? If that's the case then we better figure something out b/c we can't just go with screens and bombs.

Well, to be fair, I spent the rest of the paragraph qualifying my statement.

The truth is that ARE, Cooley, and Moss are all very good on those intermediate routes. We have never had an intermediate passing game since Gibbs' return b/c they're the most risky passing plays. Short passes are rarely picked off, and if you're picked off on a bomb, well that's kinda like a punt.

Like somebody else said, it's time to take off the training wheels and LET THE BOYS PLAY! I'd much rather see them go down swinging and learn from their mistakes then die the slow death that is the overly conservative game plan.

I think the intermediate routes would be a lot easier if we had a big wide receiver though. You need to be able to body up a linebacker and break a tackle to get the most out of those routes, and that's why Cooley has been our best guy there. Moss and ARE are great when they get the ball in stride flying across the middle, but I'm not sure that's a throw Campbell can make with consistency right now.

Truthfully, I think Campbell is what's holding us back. There are guys open on those intermediate routes, but Campbell often throws the ball high or behind the receiver. All of Campbell's interceptions this season have come on intermediate throws. He himself seems a little hesitant on those right now. Maybe it would be more fun if he were firing interceptions like Rex Grossman, but I'm not entirely sure about that ... I'll take 2-1 with a QB that seems to be making some progress each week.

[TK]

TK, are you trying to excuse the coaching staff from this defeat?

No. I'm not.

I'm not even sure you got that from this:

Some of you clearly need this as you have no idea what was actually called.

As you can see, up until this post, those were the other words I've even uttered in this thread.

I posted the playcalling recap because there have been countless idiots posting that all we did was this. All we did was that. If you can see what was actually ran, instead of babbling like a fool about things you think were done, when the facts say otherwise, then maybe you'll learn to be less foolish. And then the board would be ALOT easier to read.

Now, back to jumping off of bridges because we've lost ONE game.

[Oldfan]

I don't really know how good Campbell is now, but I feel confident in saying this: Sunday against the Giants was the ideal time to find out.

Last year, we lost to Minnesota by pounding the run even after they got ahead in the game. The Vikes are very strong against the run and weak against the pass. We attacked their strength, just as we did the Giants.

When the Patriots went to Minnesota last season, they put Brady in the shotgun for all but seven offensive plays and picked the Vikes apart. They won 31-7 despite not having a first-rate WR on their roster.

[pjfootballer]

I don't know dude, were the Giants not playing Prevent defense after the score was 24-17??

I think that can attribute to A LOT of those yards and success.

That was my point. I was responding to someone who said we were not conservative (TK) and I disagreed by showing that the only time the gloves were taken off, was the last 2 drives when we HAD to pass. They were playing prevent until we got to the one.

[AKM311]

Now, back to jumping off of bridges because we've lost ONE game.

And have only played one really bad HALF!

[pjfootballer]

And yet people are blaming the offense for losing the game for us... :doh:

Yes we are. How can you only run 6 plays. 2 three and outs. When is the defense supposed to rest. They were tired in the 4th quarter. You could see it. We went to zone cover 2 to rest. We missed tackles. During the Giants 3 TD drives, they had them stopped a couple of times. Plus we got a turnover and a punt. Defense did the best they could.

[Henry]

Yes we are. How can you only run 6 plays. 2 three and outs. When is the defense supposed to rest. They were tired in the 4th quarter. You could see it. We went to zone cover 2 to rest. We missed tackles. During the Giants 3 TD drives, they had them stopped a couple of times. Plus we got a turnover and a punt. Defense did the best they could.

The defense was AWFUL in the second half. They gave up a 10 play, 5 minute drive to open the second half before the offense even had a chance to take the field. Then they were on the field for another 3 minutes before getting an interception that was basically the same as a punt. That's 8 minutes of football that the defense was on the field in two possessions. One three-and-out doesn't cause that. Playing badly does.

Then the offense goes three-and-out again and the defense gives up ANOTHER 10+ play drive taking up over six minutes. That's 13 minutes in three drives. You think defenses give successive long drives like that simply because the offense has a couple three-and-outs? Not unless they stink, they don't.

This is what happened last year when everyone was blaming Brunell for making our defense bad. :doh: Sometimes its a little simpler than that.

This is not to excuse our offense, mind you, which was equally sucky. But like I said BOTH sides of the ball completely shut down.

[Blondie]

There ya go again, trying to be logical when so many just want to gnash their teeth and pull their hair.

There are several on here who can not AFFORD to pull their hair.

;)

[PCS]

There are several on here who can not AFFORD to pull their hair.

;)

Hey. I resemble that remark.

[[S.S.F. | Nero]]

Allow me to share this with you....

Initially right after the game, I felt the same way as many of you did and/or still do.....I thought the playcalling in the 2nd half was terrible!

However, upon further review....

Beginning in the 2nd Quarter: Score WAS 7 NYG 3...

12:11 Left in 2nd Quarter

Redskins Ball.

1st down - pass to Cooley (3 yds)

2nd down - run Betts (2 yds)

3rd down - pass to Cooley (8 yds) 1st DWN

1st down - pass to Moss (49 yds) 1st DWN

1st down - run Portis (2 yds)

2nd down - run Portis (no gain)

3rd down - pass to Cooley TOUCHDOWN

Passes - 4

Runs - 3

Redskins next drive begins with 4:11 remaining in the 1st Half.

1st down - run Portis (16 yds) 1st DWN

1st down - pass to Sellers (7 yds)

2nd down - False Start

2nd down - pass incomplete

3rd down - Defensive offsides (note: JC fumbles; ball recovered by NYG - dodged a bullet there)

3rd down - pass incomplete

4th down - PUNT

Passes - 3

Runs - 1

Redskins next drive begins with 1:33 remaining in the 1st HALF.

1st down - pass to Portis (1 yd)

2nd down - run Portis (8 yds)

3rd down - run Betts (-4 yds)

4th down - Field Goal

Passes - 1

Runs - 2

END 1st HALF

Redskins 1st drive of 2nd HALF begins with 9:50 remaining in the 3rd Quarter.

1st down - run Portis (3 yds)

2nd down - pass incomplete

3rd down - pass incomplete

4th down - PUNT

Passes - 2

Runs - 1

Redskins next drive begins with 6:00 remaining in the 3rd Quarter.

1st down - pass to Portis (-4 yds)

2nd down - run Portis (8 yds)

3rd down - run Campbell (2 yds) - a scramble due to poor O-Line play.

4th down - PUNT

Passes - 1

Runs - 2 (1 on a broken pass play)

Redskins next drive begins with 12:33 remaining in the GAME.

1st down - run Moss (2 yds; end around) - this is the 1st questionable playcall IMO.

2nd down - run Portis (3 yds)

3rd down - pass incomplete

Passes - 1

Runs - 2

Redskins next drive begins with 8:19 remaining in the GAME.

1st down - run Portis (1 yd)

2nd down - FUMBLE (albeit on a run Portis) LOST.

Passes - 0

Runs - 2

Redskins next drive begins with 5:32 remaining in the GAME.

1st down - pass incomplete

2nd down - pass to Portis (2 yds)

3rd down - pass toRandle-El (12 yds) 1st DWN

1st down - pass incomplete

2nd down - pass to Betts (13 yds) 1st DWN

1st down - pass incomplete

2nd down - pass incomplete

3rd down - SACK. Fumble. Recovered by WAS.

4th down - PUNT

Passes - 7 (not including the sacked pass playcall)

Runs - 0

Redskins final drive begins with 2:19 remaining in the GAME.

1st down - pass incomplete

2nd down - Sack.

3rd down - Holding Penalty

3rd down - pass to Moss (18 yds)

4th down - False Start

4th down - pass to Moss (15 yds) 1st DWN

1st down - Fumble. Recovered by WAS.

2nd down - Spike.

3rd down - pass to Randle-El (20 yds) 1st DWN

1st down - Spike.

2nd down - pass incomplete

3rd down - run Betts (no gain)

4th down - run Betts (-2 yds)

Passes - 5 (not including 1 sack & 1 fumbled snap)

Runs - 2

Obviously the 2 runs at the end were questionable. But in total, after leading 7 - 3 in the 2nd Quarter the Redskins called 25 pass plays and 14 running plays throughout the remainder of the contest.

You must attribute the loss to more than just playcalling.

While there were lapses, the majority of the playcalls at least attempted to be agressive. A lack of execution by the players (drops, poor routes, poor pass protection, poor passing, poor run blocking, and uninspired running back play ALL factored into this loss.

Stop blaming ONLY the coaches for this loss. The players (at least on offense, had a big hand)

Sorry Mods!!!! Thanks for the MERGE

[pjfootballer]

The defense was AWFUL in the second half. They gave up a 10 play, 5 minute drive to open the second half before the offense even had a chance to take the field. Then they were on the field for another 3 minutes before getting an interception that was basically the same as a punt. That's 8 minutes of football that the defense was on the field in two possessions. One three-and-out doesn't cause that. Playing badly does.

Then the offense goes three-and-out again and the defense gives up ANOTHER 10+ play drive taking up over six minutes. That's 13 minutes in three drives. You think defenses give successive long drives like that simply because the offense has a couple three-and-outs? Not unless they stink, they don't.

This is what happened last year when everyone was blaming Brunell for making our defense bad. :doh: Sometimes its a little simpler than that.

This is not to excuse our offense, mind you, which was equally sucky. But like I said BOTH sides of the ball completely shut down.

I see where you're coming from, but the fact is, even when the Giants scored after the 2nd half kickoff, the offense should have responded and didn't. Like I said in other threads, in the Miami and Philly games, the offense had 10-12 play drives for 80 yards and 6 or 7 minutes off the clock. At the end of both games, the defense was fresh and were able to stop them or held them to 3. They were dogged by the 3rd series. You could tell. Williams went to zones to rest guys, they were missing tackles they usually make and then they started to get hurt (Daniels, Griff, Taylor).

[StillUnknown]

in crucial situations, you play your best players. portis was on the bench for the final two runs, coaches ****ed up.

[WSHRedskins3ATLBraves3]

']

Obviously the 2 runs at the end were questionable. But in total' date=' after leading 7 - 3 in the 2nd Quarter the Redskins called [b']25[/b] pass plays and 14 running plays throughout the remainder of the contest.

You must attribute the loss to more than just playcalling.

It wasn't the amount of pass plays to run plays that was the problem. It was when Saunders called these plays. They were way too predictable.

[isle-hawg]

Thank you for putting it into perspective.

[Rolling Thunder]

The "blame the play calling" deal after every single loss is getting really tired. Let's face it, the players just didn't get it done yesterday. Drops, fumbles, missed assignments, etc., are not the fault of the coaches.

I agree. I was thinking about Gibbs 1, If we were losing, I knew they would adjust at half time and beat the team they were playing. I just knew at a gut level. I was surprised when they didn't (and they DID lose some games ).

In Gibbs 2, if we are winning at half time, I just know we will come out flat in the second half and lose. I have that stomach churning, praying for the game to end before it happens feeling every game.

Needless to say, I liked the old days better!

[jaxskinsville]

The "blame the play calling" deal after every single loss is getting really tired. Let's face it, the players just didn't get it done yesterday. Drops, fumbles, missed assignments, etc., are not the fault of the coaches.

:applause:

[PCS]

There are so many questions for each of those plays as well. For instance, the passing plays. Who was the primary target? What was the route he was supposed to run. Did he have the option of changing the pattern depending on coverage and did he? Was he covered? Same for the secondary receiver. And what about the play itself? Was it called based on down and distance and what the Giants D may have tended to do on such occasions? And so on and so on.

[SkinsFTW]

[LoudMouth12thMan]

Hmm, 21 passing plays to 8 runs.

Maybe execution was a bigger part of our collapse then we all think.

absolutely execution was the issue but why did we throw the ball so much? We weren't behind until there were 7 mins or so (not sure about the time exactly) remaining in the game. Portis only had, what 16 carries or so?, before he fumbled the ball. He needed more touches. Guess the 3 and Outs in the second half didn't help that situation.

[Leonard Washington]

so basically we just suck? :laugh:

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

i still dont know why this isnt discussed. people blaming our defense:

notice how in the first half we were pressed up the entire game and were playing quite agressively. then in the second half with a 14 point lead, we revert back to this ridiculous prevent nonsense, and we just leave the middle of the field wide open? carlos rogers held plaxico burress to 0 catches for 0 yards in the first half, and was pressed up on him a ton, throwing off all the timing for his routes and screwing up mannings timing. we come out in the 2nd half and start doing this cushion nonsense, and we get completely slayed.

i wish somebody out there could shed some light on this, because its blatantly obvious that weve been going into this backoff defense once we get a lead, and it just doesnt work. it "worked" in miami and philly but both teams got WAAAAY too close towards the end, and the giants just have better personel in the passing game to get it done against our silly prevent business.

my main question would be, if its working in the first half extremely well, why in gods name would we just let up on it?? not a clue, and we'll never get a real answer from our coaching staff, which is the most sad part.

[PCS]

Yeah. Great. And? We may not like the plays, and certainly they didn't work for a variety of reasons, but that doesn't mean they weren't called with the intent to win.

[Tastes Like Chicken]

absolutely execution was the issue but why did we throw the ball so much? We weren't behind until there were 7 mins or so (not sure about the time exactly) remaining in the game. Portis only had, what 16 carries or so?, before he fumbled the ball. He needed more touches. Guess the 3 and Outs in the second half didn't help that situation.

I agree. He averaged over 4 yds per carry. Why on earth didn't he run it 25 times? Seems to me a lot like '06, certain plays called in the 2nd half were a little fancy schmancy, end arounds and dumpoffs, and such. But who knows what Buges is doing with the right side of the line. Or Kendall, for that matter. He's a miracle worker but let's not forget, Samuels and Rabach is currently all we have left from last year's line. These guys have no chemistry together, and who is calling out the assignments on the right side of the line now?

[StepyagameuP]

Too me your stats are all good BUT I know what I saw yesterday and teh week before on defense and offense. During the Eagles game we were making changes throughout the whole game and trying to stay one step ahead. Look how GW moved CR a few steps closer to the receiver. Add he has continued to do that and it has paid off. The coaching staff played a little bit too relaxed and assumed the offense can get away with BASIC playcalling which they should have obviously adjusted after the first 3-n-out of the 2nd half. I love this team, but damn! Why do we have to take a step back when we were about to "majorily" go forward there. Thats my knack!