Radio Host Blames Tech Victims For Not Fighting Back

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Alright, well, From what I read, he attacked three classrooms. So, I know people screamed in the first so don't the 2nd and 3rd classes have to hear whats going on. It wasn't like he attacked 1 classroom and that was it.

I know, I would've probably screamed like a little panzy and piss my myself.

Read the Post article. Each classroom heard something, but wasn't sure what it was. Most of them seemed to think it was construction.

It sounds like the third classroom had the best hope of resisting. And some of the students apparently lept out the window (which seemed like a pretty good move actually).

[playboy1972]

These same people who talk all this stuff about what they would have done, have probably never been in any confrontation in their lives. Half of them would start crying if someone walked up to them and slapped the hell out of them. But they think they would be so bold and alert to be freakin Yosemite Sam and rush some gunmen. STFU. 9:00 am in the morning surprise attack, hell most of the students were probably deaf from the gunshots in a classroom. And the chances any of those kids had on anything more than a sweat suit and jeans is pushing it. Let me see Skin vs. Hot metal. No Chance.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I've been hearing about the people being lined up and shot execution style, but I've yet to see it in print except for the first day. It makes me wonder if that story came out of the 'fog of war'. If it did happen, I think the question of why someone didn't fight back has merit. I'm not saying I would have done it, but I would have hoped I would have. But being in the situation is different.

We should be learning more about exactly what happened as the days wear on, but not all the classroom scenes were they guy coming in with guns blazing. In this interview, this survivor describes him walking up and down the desk rows shooting people while they laid on the ground in fear. Mostly trying to act like they were already dead. The shooter left the room, then came back in and did the same thing. I saw this guy's interview on Oprah yesterday and its more detailed here. You should read it. Very surreal.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18183450/site/newsweek/

I sure hope I would have tried something, but you don't know until you're put in that position.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/18/AR2007041802824_pf.html

Read the story.

[PCS]

I'm going to start off by saying that I agree with Tarhog and Bang. Certainly Tarhog speaks from experience as a marine. Sarge said it good too. They're just kids. As I stated in another thread, nobody, and I do mean nobody can sit there and say what they would do in a situation like this, (except for those who have been in similar situations. Combat, police, ect..). And imho, that's what this person is doing in blaming these people. Putting themself in the same situation that these people at VT were in and saying what they would do. We all would love to be able to say we would do the "right" thing. The "heroic" thing, but we can say it all we want and it still means ****. Unless you've been there done that, there is no real probabiblity of what we would actually do. And I speak as someone who has been in very tense situations with lives on the line,( though in my case I was trying to save them). Until the bullets start flying for real, it's all just bull****. Especially blaming these people.

[DixieFlatline]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/18/AR2007041802824_pf.html

Read the story.

I've read it, but I'm not sure of your point.

[TheREALJBird]

Probably wrong to bring it up at such a time, but I think there is a point in that. Obviously many people are going to be in shock, hell quite possibly myself as well. But if I knew that I was going to possibly die then I would at least TRY and do something or help someone

[Blighty Skins]

I'm wondering how many of you speak from experience here. I was shot at by a Beretta 9mm at close range when I was 18 (so comparable to what these people went through). I was wearing a flak jacket at the time, which would'nt have stopped the rounds from penetrating.

I didn't panic and I wasn't scared at the time it was happening (you'd understand if you knew all the circumstances). Though after it was over I had a minor panic attack, took off all my clothes and checked if I had any holes in me.

Though I was armed...with a rifle. That maybe made a difference...also, the person shooting wasn't exactly trying to kill me/us...that also would've made a difference.

[Burgold]

I have no problem with encouraging resistance in such situations,but for anyone to condemn these victims is a absolute fool.

I honour the bravery and actions taken to save lives because it goes beyond what is expected, and I cast no shadow of blame on any other than the nutjob POS responsible for this tragedy.

I agree with this sentiment. It's so easy to second guess from the safety of a sound both or a studio. This host is an idiot or more likely a clever man who believes that saying this kind of idiocy will create a controversy that will drum up his ratings, make him more famous, and make him more money. A number of personalities like saying controversial stuff not because they believe it, but because it's lucrative.

[SkinsHokieFan]

One thing I have heard from people who knew members of the police that responded to this

Some of these officers have been in the military, a few in Iraq.

None had seen carnage like this. A few were in tears once they made it to the 2nd floor of Norris

Knowing the crappy desks in the Norris (you are kind of pinned sitting down, its not like a seperate chair), knowing that doors are usually left open in older buildings, the reaction time was very little

As the Post article says, there is a lot of construction at VT going on now, especially around Norris and McBryde. You hear pop pop pop you don't think much. You try and ignore it

Once the guy is in the classroom, you are pretty much toast

[mr2you]

Okay great blame the victims. If anyone has been to an early morning class, rushing a gun toting mad-man is pretty much the last thing you're thinking of at 7 whatever in the morning. Just as many high ranking military personnel have stated that if someone is willing to kill themselves in the commission of a crime/war action, there's not much you can do to defend yourself.

We need to pray for the families of the wounded and dead and talk to our kids about why this could have happened.

I hope we are not too quick to blame the school for the actions of a determined and disturbed killer. I hope this gives us all time to

pause and notice friends or family who may need help.

God Bless Virginia Tech and the families of the slain and wounded.

[BlueTalon]

I'm going to start off by saying that I agree with Tarhog and Bang. Certainly Tarhog speaks from experience as a marine. Sarge said it good too. They're just kids. As I stated in another thread, nobody, and I do mean nobody can sit there and say what they would do in a situation like this, (except for those who have been in similar situations. Combat, police, ect..). And imho, that's what this person is doing in blaming these people. Putting themself in the same situation that these people at VT were in and saying what they would do. We all would love to be able to say we would do the "right" thing. The "heroic" thing, but we can say it all we want and it still means ****. Unless you've been there done that, there is no real probabiblity of what we would actually do. And I speak as someone who has been in very tense situations with lives on the line,( though in my case I was trying to save them). Until the bullets start flying for real, it's all just bull****. Especially blaming these people.

I'm glad you posted this. I'm still thinking "why didn't they do this or this or that...", but I'm twice as old as most of those students with military experience and skill with handguns. I can try to imagine what I'd do in that situation, but I can't very well plug myself into their ages and experiences.

Having said all that, I'm curious about the second and third classrooms, too. Was there only one door into those rooms?

[Blighty Skins]

Oh yeah...I forgot the point of my post. Sorry...it's late and I'm tired. Having been through a similar scenario to the kids at VT at a comparable age, would I have fought back?

Well, probably no.

When I was shot at...yes he did empty the magazine on us (there were two of us and the clip holds 15 rounds), but wearing an army uniform, you're always expecting something like this to happen when in a danger zone. Plus as I said before, I had a bigger gun (that makes you feel in control of the situation) and the flak jacket gives you a (false) sense of security...but still.

Now, you're in a class, a normal citizen...you don't expect an armed man to come walking through the door. But he does. It's natural you attempt to run away.

Being prepared for a situation or half expecting something...never underestimate it. I was, they weren't. I'm alive. There's the difference.

So no...no shame on these kids, in my opinion.

[DjTj]

I'm glad you posted this. I'm still thinking "why didn't they do this or this or that...", but I'm twice as old as most of those students with military experience and skill with handguns. I can try to imagine what I'd do in that situation, but I can't very well plug myself into their ages and experiences.

Having said all that, I'm curious about the second and third classrooms, too. Was there only one door into those rooms?

After reading a bit more of the eyewitness accounts, I think I agree with the general premise that it was better to do something, and it sounds like many students did just that. It probably would have been stupid to try to bum rush the guy or otherwise go one on one against someone with two guns, but it seems like in the classrooms where someone actually did something (like barricading the door or going out the window), lives were saved.

In the first classroom, Pf. Loganathan's graduate engineering class, there was no warning, and 12 of the 14 people were killed. That is definitely the worst of them because they had no time to react or prepare.

In the second, Pf. Bishop's German class, the shooter killed many when he first entered, but several students held the door closed and prevented him from coming in again.

In the third, Pf. Couture-Nowak's French class, they heard shots and were even calling 911 and preparing to barricade the door when the shooter first came in ... perhaps the bravest students, who may have been trying to block the door, were shot first, because this is the classroom where there are accounts of the shooter walking up and down rows shooting people for a second and third time. They also did not barricade the door after the shooter left, allowing him to return a second time. I don't have the numbers, but it sounds like this is where the second-most casualties came from.

In the fourth classroom, Pf. Cheng's computer class, the students successfully barricaded the door and kept the shooter out even as some bullets flew through the door. All of them survived.

In the fifth classroom, Pf. Librescu's engineering class, students were already going out the window while the professor tried to hold the door shut. Only a few were killed (including the professor) because they did not get out in time.

So a lot of people DID do something that day ... and a lot of people DID save lives by stepping up. The people with more time to prepare, in the fourth and fifth classrooms, reacted the best. The picture I get from reading about it is not of a bunch of cowards but of many extraordinary acts of bravery.

[PCS]

I'm glad you posted this. I'm still thinking "why didn't they do this or this or that...", but I'm twice as old as most of those students with military experience and skill with handguns. I can try to imagine what I'd do in that situation, but I can't very well plug myself into their ages and experiences.

Having said all that, I'm curious about the second and third classrooms, too. Was there only one door into those rooms?

For a split second, I was thinking that myself Talon, but then I remembered my first time doing CPR on a real person when I was just barely 21. It was a less than stellar performance. And then when I think of those older, I remember saving a guys life,(well. That's what they said I did anyway), almost 10 years ago on a job site. Watching men near my age panic and cave, (and I wasn't great at first either), because this was something they had never seen before. And this incident, well, it's far and above anything I could imagine being involved in. I have no idea what I would do and that's why I see no reason to blame them or even criticize them for being what they are. Human.

[BlueTalon]

I hope we are not too quick to blame the school for the actions of a determined and disturbed killer. I hope this gives us all time to

pause and notice friends or family who may need help.

God Bless Virginia Tech and the families of the slain and wounded.

I wouldn't blame anyone but the killer for the actions of the killer. And that will always be the case.

But from what I understand, the head of VT is not above reproach. Last year he applauded the passing of some law/regulation declaring VT a gun-free-zone, and he said that now parents and students can feel safer, etc. Gun-free-zones are exactly the environment these mass shootings take place in!

We will never be able to stop crazies from going on killing sprees. We might intercept a few before they start, but some will always find their way through the cracks. What we can do is make it so once they start, someone else can stop them, earlier rather than later. But that's not going to happen until the rulemakers start re-thinking this gun-free-zone nonsense.

[BlueTalon]

For a split second, I was thinking that myself Talon, but then I remembered my first time doing CPR on a real person when I was just barely 21. It was a less than stellar performance. And then when I think of those older, I remember saving a guys life almost 10 years ago on a job site. Watching men near my age panic and cave, (and I wasn't great at first either), because this was something they had never seen before. And this incident, well, it's far and above anything I could imagine being involved in. I have no idea what I would do and that's why I see no reason to blame them or even criticize them for being what they are. Human.

Well, experience trumps age, that's for sure. But I wonder... I was in college full time in my late-20s/early-30s, and I wasn't the only student there who was a bit older or had military experience. Was there nobody in those classrooms who could, once they heard popping and screaming, take charge and organize an evacuation?

[Reic]

Well, experience trumps age, that's for sure. But I wonder... I was in college full time in my late-20s/early-30s, and I wasn't the only student there who was a bit older or had military experience. Was there nobody in those classrooms who could, once they heard popping and screaming, take charge and organize an evacuation?

I was discussing this with a co-worker today. She brought up the plane on 9/11 but that was a completely different situation, they were in a confined space, and they knew they were dead, so they took charge.

In this situation, there were escape routes, so people used them. I don't know if saying they were just kids stands much considering a lot of people that join the military are the same exact age and are taught defensive techniques. It all depends on the person and their fight/flight..tend/befriend tendencies.

As for me, I have no idea, I would have probably gotten a little P.Oed that some guy was shooting at me and friends and killing them, but after that I don't know. I do know I would of been the last one out of the classroom alive because I become protective in nature and look after my peers.

[PCS]

As stories come out more and more, we find out there were a few who did take charge. Who did put themselves in harms way,(and though I'm hesitant to even say this, it would seem under the circumstances that evacuation may have been considered even more of a risk),in order to save others. People will react many times, in their own best, natural ability.

[Sticksboi05]

**Everyone please, I know this was a dumb post and I am very sorry to all who were offended by it so please don't reply to it **

[Cheers, Beers and Mountaineers]

I'm not one to insult those murdered but if that was the case and they did nothing, they are not very smart. I would've attacked him as everyone should've if that was the case.

i'm sure you would have

[#98QBKiller]

I'm not one to insult those murdered but if that was the case and they did nothing, they are not very smart. I would've attacked him as everyone should've if that was the case.

So if a gunman bursts through the door and opens fire on your classroom unexpectedly, you're going to do what? What's the smart thing to do here?

It's easy to sit on your computer at home and talk about what you would've done, but until you're put in that situation you really have no idea.

Not to mention you're only 16, have you ever shot a gun before? Have you ever even seen someone shoot a gun before?

[lovetoaster]

I'm not one to insult those murdered but if that was the case and they did nothing, they are not very smart. I would've attacked him as everyone should've if that was the case.

Well, I have now had my daily dose of class.

[Sticksboi05]

i'm sure you would have

Oh please drama queen. Everybody knows they wouldn't do what they said. :laugh:

[Sticksboi05]

So if a gunman bursts through the door and opens fire on your classroom unexpectedly, you're going to do what? What's the smart thing to do here?

It's easy to sit on your computer at home and talk about what you would've done, but until you're put in that situation you really have no idea.

Not to mention you're only 16, have you ever shot a gun before? Have you ever even seen someone shoot a gun before?

DUDE CHILL OUT. I said I wouldn't actually do that. It's in THEORY. And yes, I have rifle and shotgun merit badge fyi.

[Tarhog]

DUDE CHILL OUT. I said I wouldn't actually do that. It's in THEORY. And yes, I have rifle and shotgun merit badge fyi.

Let me give you a messageboard and life tip.

When you say something and every single person responding vehemently and immediately disagrees, it might be because you are dead wrong. Just something to consider