JLC New Blog, About Briggs

[Art]

People keep saying that. But how often are players dealt for picks in the upper half of the first round? Randy Moss was the last one I remember.

Teams just don't like giving that high a draft pick for any player, no matter how good and young they are. Especially when you then have to hand an enormous contract to said player. And especially a player who doesn't fill one of those "premium" positions, like QB or LT, and probably CB and DE.

Willis McGahee is certainly a safe bet to outperform most 3rd round picks, as is Thomas Jones, yet that's what they went for.

Neither McGahee nor Jones have Briggs' resume as a player, so, neither would go for much more than they went for. The reason team's don't trade picks more often is because with a draft pick, there's a window of time on the player people grant that is different than for a free agent, who everyone, rightly, expects to be ready to perform at a high level. Most teams picking earlier in the draft tend to have staffs recently added, meaning, they can buy time to build something even if a pick fails and the audience will give them that time with a pick where they wouldn't with a player. Gibbs is unlikely to do so poor a job -- though he tried last year -- as to get himself fired as our coach, so he doesn't have to worry so much about what other struggling coaches do have to worry about.

[skins84]

Ok, so If Briggs is worth the 16th pick in the draft and Art you seem to think that he is. Or at least that's what our FO seems to think.

If we were to get him for that price, he would apparently be worth the 16th pick and two 2nd round picks. Since that's what we used for Rocky and getting Briggs would basically be saying those two picks can be wasted sitting on the bench because Briggs is such a great player.

But wait, the bears want to bend us over for another pick as well and since they aren't budging yet, we should also throw in a pick from next years draft too to get the Great 26 year old Lance Briggs.

So we would essentially be using up the equivalent to the 16th pick in the first round, 2 second round picks, and let's say a 4th round pick in next years draft to get Lance Briggs.

And if we tried to trade Rocky we would be lucky to get a 5th rounder for him which would be pointless. He'd be better off taking Arch's spot as Personal Punt Protector.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Neither McGahee nor Jones have Briggs' resume as a player, so, neither would go for much more than they went for. The reason team's don't trade picks more often is because with a draft pick, there's a window of time on the player people grant that is different than for a free agent, who everyone, rightly, expects to be ready to perform at a high level. Most teams picking earlier in the draft tend to have staffs recently added, meaning, they can buy time to build something even if a pick fails and the audience will give them that time with a pick where they wouldn't with a player. Gibbs is unlikely to do so poor a job -- though he tried last year -- as to get himself fired as our coach, so he doesn't have to worry so much about what other struggling coaches do have to worry about.

Don't buy that at all.

First off, it doesn't matter if McGahee or Jones "have Briggs resume", as you're suggesting Briggs is worth more than a mid 1st, while those two are getting dealt for mid-3rds. McGahee has 3 very good seasons behind him, and had a cheap year left on his contract, while being a year younger than Briggs. While there is still a slight worry about his knee injury 4 years ago, I have a hard time seeing the gulf between their value as being that huge.

As for the reasons draft picks aren't traded, that doesn't make sense. Most staffs get two years to produce, so you would think they would want a proven player who can come right in and produce. One bad choice that high in the draft is quite often doom for them.

No, it has everything to do with money. After the first few picks in the draft, who are expected to be superstars, the rest of the 1st round are expected to be good players and cheaper contracts than the vets, while being younger and under the team's control for at least 4 years. The further down the round you get, the cheaper they get.

For me, that's why Briggs doesn't have the value of the #16 pick. I figure I can get a good, young, productive starter from that pick, and I can use the money I'm not spending on Briggs to sign another very good starter. If Briggs played a premium position, it would be one thing. But an OLB who's going to get that kind of money? No way.

[#98QBKiller]

Your point?

If an effort to get people to be more intelligent than they appear willing to be on their own is defending the front office, then, I'll keep doing that a lot. If mentioning to someone wishing our front office would show patience in the Briggs situation, one where nothing has happened, that, in fact, nothing has happened, so, wish for patience when something has is defending the front office, I'd ask why aren't you helping out?

Or, put simply, as it relates to Briggs, it appears people think it's appropriate to bash it because Chicago may, or may not, have considered he has more value than the No. 6 pick at loss of their No. 31, and the request we wait a year or some odd thing. If we trade for Briggs, I'll be in that thread, like this one, saying it's not a move I like, fully understand or wished to see.

Until then, you'll have to bear with me if I keep reminding people that nothing's happened and Briggs has value in a trade. I grant you it's an amazing thing both efforts are necessary on my part, but, make that change and you'll have won a friend.

I wasn't making a point, just an observation from reading through the thread. I see what you're saying about Briggs having value in a trade and I also see that you're not lobbying for this trade to happen either, but just like you see and many fans on this board see, it's not about the face value of Briggs.

It's easy to look at his resume and say, "hey, he's young and he's a two-time pro bowler," but there are more concerns than whether or not his value is worth pick-swapping or losing a pick all together.

I think a lot of people on this board see our current LB corps as adequate with the acquisition of London Fletcher and wonder why we would add another OLB to our team regardless of how many slots he's worth dropping down in the draft.

[JoeGibbsThickandthin]

Neither McGahee nor Jones have Briggs' resume as a player, so, neither would go for much more than they went for. The reason team's don't trade picks more often is because with a draft pick, there's a window of time on the player people grant that is different than for a free agent, who everyone, rightly, expects to be ready to perform at a high level. Most teams picking earlier in the draft tend to have staffs recently added, meaning, they can buy time to build something even if a pick fails and the audience will give them that time with a pick where they wouldn't with a player. Gibbs is unlikely to do so poor a job -- though he tried last year -- as to get himself fired as our coach, so he doesn't have to worry so much about what other struggling coaches do have to worry about.

LOL. Briggs resume is team running away from Urlacker and going to his side to gather a lot of tackles.

He has 3.5 career sacks. Not many INTs.

His resume is nothing. If he was an elite linebacker no one would be complaining about the deal.

Everyone knows the pro bowl is just a popularity contest. The teams with the best records usually get a lot of pro bowlers.

The move will show Snyder is insane. If they wanted to add two top teir linebackers they should of got Thomas from the Ravens.

And to top it off it is not at a need postion. Rocky has enough time on the bench to play. Plus marshall has started on two top 10 defenses.

Thats 4 linebackers already in your starting rotation.

Its almost like Snyder just wants to make a splash.

[bedlamVR]

I don't think Art is hoping this deal is going to happen just pointing out it may not be the worst thing in the world .

I also think people need to calm down nothing has happened and I think it is funny that JLC takes a swing at the FO for the Bly trade that only he fell for .

Perception is reality with a weak stomach, sometimes it is easier to think the worse but untill anything happens can we hold off the lynch squad.

[2006Skins]

Why in the hell would we even give a cherry popsicle for Briggs???

OVERHYPED

[JoeGibbsThickandthin]

I don't think Art is hoping this deal is going to happen just pointing out it may not be the worst thing in the world .

I also think people need to calm down nothing has happened and I think it is funny that JLC takes a swing at the FO for the Bly trade that only he fell for .

Perception is reality with a weak stomach, sometimes it is easier to think the worse but untill anything happens can we hold off the lynch squad.

It is the worst thing that would ever happen. Just for the fact they have 4 linebackers in the rotation right now.

They need a stud DT, DE ,Tall stud WR, possibly a cover safety

AND you add another linebacker? Gibbs could not be making these moves. He has won too many super bowls to do dumb things like that.

He knows you need balance a every position. You can not have 5 linebackers and a shabby defensive line. Espically if Griff gets hurt.

[vladdrac]

Well I have to severely question JLC on two points there...

First, Why does he mention "much like Dre Bly" when nothing happened with Dre Bly, it was a lot of idle speculation? Sure the FO has deserved some shots, but why throw shots at them for something they didnt do wrong? Seems amaturish.

Second, his comments about Lindseys firing, McIntosh, and Briggs seem to make little sense. No, I dont think Lindsey gets to tell GW which LB he can play, and Lindseys firing was for a gross mismanagement of the LB position over the past couple years. They werent going to fire Lindsey for not putting Rocky on the field and then go replace Rocky the next season. Lindsey wasnt fired because of Rocky, and we have not been that serious about going after Briggs.

I think Lindsey was fired as much for getting into that public spat with Lavar over the playbook, etc. That pissed Gibbs off.

[Jino]

The was real entertaining but unprofessional of Lindsey in IMO.

[bedlamVR]

It is the worst thing that would ever happen. Just for the fact they have 4 linebackers in the rotation right now.

They need a stud DT, DE ,Tall stud WR, possibly a cover safety

AND you add another linebacker? Gibbs could not be making these moves. He has won too many super bowls to do dumb things like that.

He knows you need balance a every position. You can not have 5 linebackers and a shabby defensive line. Espically if Griff gets hurt.

I just want to go on record here to say that I think this would be a bad deal.. don't get me wrong.

But it would be something I could live with if it happenend if all we gave up was 25 spots in the 1st round to get someone of Briggs stature even if it was not a possition of despirate need but could still be useful afterall, Marshell is in the final year of his contract, Washington is coming off fairly significant hip surgury, Fletcher is 32 and McIntosh is still unproven.

I agree the line does need to be addressed but does it have to be with someone at the top of the Draft ? The FO would have scouted each player and may have come to the conclusion no of them would be worth the money or the investment at No.6.

And i still dissagree that you need a tall stud WR because we can get the same production other ways specifically at the TE possition . Remember when Monk was comming out in the draft many had pegged him as a TE because of his height and size and he did line up as such . Most TE's in Gibbs systems were lead blockers or max protect players like Doc Walker who had like 17 career receptions.

[scruffylookin]

The bottom line is a two-time Pro Bowler, one-time All Pro at the age of 26 is worth MORE than the No. 16 pick of the NFL draft. That's what the deal works out to be if we swap six and No. 31 for Briggs. It has little to do with Chicago thinking we're dumb. Mostly, it's people here who are too dumb to know what the value of a player with that resume is in the NFL. Only by Chicago believing Briggs WON'T return to play for them do they take SO LITTLE in trade for a player of his production. Again, I don't want to do the deal because I don't believe Briggs is that good, but, there's a value to a player like him that is greater than the offer we've heard is on the table. It'd be appropriate to start letting that register with you, while still hoping we don't do it.

Oh I don't know Art, I've always considered myself a pretty smart fellow but I could be mistaken I guess. I'm glad you're around to save us from ourselves.

I simply don't understand your position. You say that given Briggs' resume, this is a fair trade and yet you then say that Briggs' isn't all that good (despite his resume) and you wouldn't do the deal. Then shouldn't we not do this deal because despite being 26, despite being to 2 pro bowls and despite being a 1 time all pro, Briggs simply isn't as good as that?

My concern regarding this trade (and others have voiced it in other threads so I have not but I will here) is that it's for a player who I don't believe we need at a position I don't believe we need. If we do need Briggs, then that still demonstrates the stupidity of this FO because that would mean that Rocky can't play.

My position is that let's pretend the Redskins did have the #16 pick in this draft. I would hope that we would not select a linebacker. If there were rumors that the Skins were looking at a linebacker (no matter how good he may be) I would be disappointed in the selection.

So the bottom line is this. Briggs and the #31 may be indeed be worth the #6. But I don't think that linebacker is a position of need for this team and if I'm wrong and it is because Rocky can't play, then this FO made the mistake last year in selecting him.

Either way, our front office does not look very good.

The only point you've raised that makes sense is that this deal has not happened yet, so it all could be all posturing on the Skins part and that they are trying to scare somebody we don't know about with whom they are in negotiations to trade up or down and to move off of #6. If that is the case, good for them.

[squatch66]

']I don't understand it. If Briggs is as good as made to be' date=' why are the Bears convinced that he can so easily be replaced. And shouldn't that lower his trade value? Weird.[/quote']

the bears believe that it is the system not the players much like gregg williams. im not getting into whether we should do the deal or not, but we should really rethink this trade. we have chicago out on a ledge. he has vowed never to play for them again or at best to sit out 10 games. we should offer them their conditional sixth rounder that we got in the archuletta deal. if they reject it then let him sit out and pay him 7.2 mil for SIX FRICKEN GAMES. i know what many of you are saying that i dont know what i am talking about. i admit that i am not a keen football mind. i havent played since high school and dont know much. all i know is that i love my skins and if we were to try to swing this deal we should go into this thinking that we have very little to lose.:helmet:

[tr1]

Um, the Bears asking for an additional pick for Briggs is going to be a deal breaker...which is exactly what Chicago wants.

Having wrestled away Philly's title of cheapest team in the NFL, the Bears are on the record for not wanting to pay a #6 rookie's huge signing bonus.

Asking for the sun and the moon for Briggs is a way for them to save face when Briggs remains on their roster...and save money - their primary concern.

[Die Hard]

I don't think Art is hoping this deal is going to happen just pointing out it may not be the worst thing in the world .

You aren't familiar with Art's posting style.

Art is saying it's a great move.... but he hope it doesn't go through. In doing so, later he can argue both sides of the fence and say he was right and forecasted correctly.

It leaves the door open for Art to argue it in the future.... and ever be wrong. That's his M.O. To cover all his bases so he can never be wrong. Been watching him do this for 7 years now

[Thinking Skins]

The Redskins are not dumb of enough to do the deal. It was just talk.

Draft Adams or Branch or trade up for Calvin Johnson if you do not like those 2. Period.

How can you say this? As of right now, we've made the offer. THe only thing that separates us from Briggs right now is the Bears accepting the offer. So yeah, as of right now we are dumb enough to do the deal.

[Thinking Skins]

Given the FO hasn't done anything, you've been seeing patience. The guess here is this, coupled with Gibbs speaking about moving up in the draft is out there in that way to compel a team we're talking with about moving down to take it seriously that we might move up or out . Just about everything out there right now is manipulation of someone else more than a real move. It wouldn't surprise me if we found out the Giants or Philly or even Dallas were looking at Briggs and decided to throw Snyder's good paycheck name around to assure he knows if he came here he'd get $20 million so he should ask for $21 million there.

I remain reasonably confident the Briggs deal won't happen. But, I remain reasonably confident we probably haven't heard the deal that will, so, I won't ask anyone for patience when there's no indication it doesn't exist on the part of anyone but fans of this team hyperventiliating about how dumb we are in a situation when we've not done anything.

But Art, the fact that the offer was proposed by our front office means that the front office has done something. So whether or not the deal goes through, I have to live with the fact that we have a front office that doesn't have its priorities in order.

[KingGibbs]

You aren't familiar with Art's posting style.

Art is saying it's a great move.... but he hope it doesn't go through. In doing so, later he can argue both sides of the fence and say he was right and forecasted correctly.

It leaves the door open for Art to argue it in the future.... and ever be wrong. That's his M.O. To cover all his bases so he can never be wrong. Been watching him do this for 7 years now

:laugh: So true. All one needs to do is read this thread and realize that. He could play the role of the pot and the kettle for sure.

[CrazyLikeAFox87]

Reports are that our FO has made an offer, and it is the Bears FO that is showing patience as they try to rape us for another pick.

[Gregpeck99]

I think when the Skins are on the clock and only the Dlineman projects are left and no one wants to trade with Skins to take the No. 6 spot ... the Skins out of desperation will call the Bears and offer to throw in another pick ... probably the one they got for Arch.

[SnyderMustGo]

The Redskins are not dumb of enough to do the deal. It was just talk.

Oh really?

3rd for Duckett.

2 picks and giant contract for Lloyd.

Archuleta as highest paid safety in NFL history.

On and on and on......

Do you really think you can write off this trade as not likely simply because you perceive it to be stupid?

[Spizzunk]

The bottom line is a two-time Pro Bowler, one-time All Pro at the age of 26 is worth MORE than the No. 16 pick of the NFL draft. That's what the deal works out to be if we swap six and No. 31 for Briggs. It has little to do with Chicago thinking we're dumb. Mostly, it's people here who are too dumb to know what the value of a player with that resume is in the NFL. Only by Chicago believing Briggs WON'T return to play for them do they take SO LITTLE in trade for a player of his production. Again, I don't want to do the deal because I don't believe Briggs is that good, but, there's a value to a player like him that is greater than the offer we've heard is on the table. It'd be appropriate to start letting that register with you, while still hoping we don't do it.

In the first part of your post, you say that Briggs is worth more than the 16th pick, which is what the difference in the deal would be.

You follow it up by saying you don't want it to happen because you don't believe Briggs is that good.

You've mastered the art (no pun intended) of double speak. Big Brother would be proud. :laugh:

[skeenzfan]

The bottom line is a two-time Pro Bowler, one-time All Pro at the age of 26 is worth MORE than the No. 16 pick of the NFL draft. That's what the deal works out to be if we swap six and No. 31 for Briggs. It has little to do with Chicago thinking we're dumb. Mostly, it's people here who are too dumb to know what the value of a player with that resume is in the NFL. Only by Chicago believing Briggs WON'T return to play for them do they take SO LITTLE in trade for a player of his production. Again, I don't want to do the deal because I don't believe Briggs is that good, but, there's a value to a player like him that is greater than the offer we've heard is on the table. It'd be appropriate to start letting that register with you, while still hoping we don't do it.

Yeah but there is also an issue of leverage here. Briggs doesn't want to play for chicago and is not in their long term plans. No other team has expressed any interest in him either. So we can sit back and let this thing play out and as the training camp gets closer Chicago will be more desperate to deal him and get something in return. I have an issue with the timing on this deal and the skins showing their hand on this so to speak.

[Art]

Scruffy,

I read your post and confirm, yet again, the people who believe the adjudication of this, or any other trade, should be based on THEIR OWN knowledge or views of the sport, are people who essentially should be ignored and taunted by others. Maybe you are a pretty smart guy. Maybe I am.

Maybe you and I share a common view of Briggs that while he's performed at an amazingly high level in the NFL, we just have lingering questions as to whether he's actually as good as the recognition he's received. We would both legitmately be right to worry about whether we're right on our assessment should any deal occur.

It is simply astounding to me how many people allow THEIR OWN viewpoint as to what this team needs or whether a person is a good player sway not only their PRE-judgements as to moves we might make, but, allow them with fixed certainty to reject anything that doesn't fit THEIR OWN viewpoints.

That's not an intelligent position. Die Hard is right. I absolutely LOVE the deal of acquiring a legitimate, top linebacker for the No. 16 pick of the draft, which is what this works out to be. In the abstract, every single fan of THIS, or any other team, would agree that's an insanely good value. Now, my love is abstract. If I put a name of a player in I valued personally more than I value Briggs, I'd be jumping up and down hoping it could occur. I know most people here would as well.

But, because I personally have doubts about Briggs as a player would tend to make me less pleased with the same trade for him. Emotionally, as a fan, I'd prefer to see us do something else. I'd like the move up for Johnson. I just think that would be an incredible thing for us to land that player -- though he could be a total bust. A little part of me is more excited about Landry than it should be. Whatever flavor of moves I'd like to see as a fan are those that would likely make me very happy if made.

Where you and I part is I don't view the possibility that something other than what I want requires that I hold my breath and think anyone who doesn't line up directly with that who works for the team must be a total moron.

While we may be right to think Briggs isn't as good as he looks, the fact is we came to our conclusion by watching MAYBE 1 percent of the man's total lifetime plays. We don't know sheeeeeeeeeeiiiiiiiiiiiit. And the only perceivable negative against Briggs is the thought he might not be as good as he's played because he plays next to Urlacher. This isn't like Archuleta where everyone knew his soft spot was coverage or even like Lloyd where the questions were there about his character and consistency. It's not like Moss, who was said to drop too many balls, and be too small to get open against good defenders.

Briggs is a lot like Portis. Portis was a back no one had any real negative view of his ability, save the, "Well, he's a system back." Even at that, I suppose you could say people didn't believe he was big enough to be an every down back in a power offense. Briggs, to this point, is a player of remarkable assessments in that the ONLY negative thing anyone has yet been able to say about him is he played with good players around him.

It is a legitimate question. It's just not legitimate enough to allow us to question the intelligence of others. But, tuck it away. If we make the deal and he sucks, we'll know we were right to worry. And, if he's great -- as great as he's been -- we'll say, "Whew, man, I was dumb."

[bedlamVR]

Oh really?

Do you really think you can write off this trade as not likely simply because you perceive it to be stupid?

I think there is a chance this might happen but I hope it doesn't

3rd for Duckett. : This is only a bad deal in retrospect . It was dumb to go shopping in a panic mode but on past performance and future potential Duckett was a great option that didn't pan out

2 picks and giant contract for Lloyd.: The jurry is still out here . Essentially he is a project. He was an emerging star in 2005 with the 49ers and we had many difficulties on offence and defence last year. Before you bash the FO think how effective Joey Galloway was for the Cowboys (he turned out okay but was a disapointment), Pearless Price for atlanta or lets see how much of an impact Wes Walker makes with the Pats.

Archuleta as highest paid safety in NFL history. : For about a week...Ed Reed resigned a week later for more money and I think so did Roy Williams. Compare that to this year where Deon Grant has just signed a very comparable deal to Arculeta . Also you may not have realised that the Redskins did manage to weasle thier way out of the Archuleta contract.

On and on and on......

Like the trade for Santana Moss or Clinton Portis both of which put down milestones for production eclipsing anything achieved previously in the Redskins 75 year franchise history - ( Just as an aside on the Portis for Bailey trade. If the Broncos came out such winers on this deal have they felt the need to effectivly trade away the No 2 pick we threw in to sweeten the deal (Tatum Bell) and thrown in a former 1st round pick RT and a fith round pick for good measure and then paid $33+ Million for Dre Bly to shore up the other side of the field (so now they have $90+ Million tied up in contracts at the CB possition in two players?))