Anything MMA, except thumb wrestling

[#98QBKiller]

question for the people of the thread:

after Saturday's fights, who do you have as best pound 4 pound, Fedor or Anderson Silva?

That's tough but I'm going to give Fedor a slight edge because of the quality of opponents he's destroyed in his career

[ZoEd]

I actually have a question for all of you.

I was trying to decide who the top 5 p4p are in the world, and the first 4 were totally obvious.

GSP, BJ, Fedor and Silva. (In no particular order)

Im undecided about who I would put as that fifth best.

who would you guys put? Or what would your top 5 be in your disagree with my first four?

OH and to answer SU's question, I do not put Silva as #1.

I think you'd have to put the California Kid Faber in there. He might be small but that dude destroys everyone he faces including Pulver who has been touted as one of the best MMA guys around. You can't leave this guy out that's for sure. I don't think too many fighters have dominated their opponents the way he does. :2cents:

[StillUnknown]

Fedor is still King. Despite Silva's pinpoint striking, amazing clinch, and more than adequate ground game, Fedor is just inhuman. He'll knock you out with a lazy uppercut, wrestle your ass to the mat (unmatched sambo skills), or sub you. It's definitely very close. Unfortunately, there's no way we'll ever see these two guys battle.

Who's victory was most impressive: Fedor's or Silva's?

Silva moved up in weight and knocked out a naturally heavier Irvin in impressive fashion.

Fedor beat Sylvia faster than anyone has, and in impressive fashion. However, he fought Sylvia in a ring where Tim is not accustomed to fighting, and Fedor did not move up or change weight.

In addition, Fedor's been taking it easy as of late, whereas Silva seems to want to set a record for fights in a year.....

It's a toss up to me, as I can't decide. Fedor's win strictly on how it was done is more impressive to me, as he destroyed a previously top 5 HW. But the fact that Silva moved up in weight and has been continuously fighting also impresses me.

Fedor's was more impressive in my opinion. Sylvia probably entered the ring at close to 280 since he cuts to 265. Fedor was giving up close to 50 pounds. and he absolutely dominated him. He used his standup to get Tim, then showed his Sambo/JJ game. As impressive as Silva was going up in weight, Fedor was just a little better. the quality of opponent plays a factor as well. James Irvin is really only a heavy-handed LHW, he doesn't offer much else.

Fedor beat Sylvia faster than anyone has, and in impressive fashion. However, he fought Sylvia in a ring where Tim is not accustomed to fighting, and Fedor did not move up or change weight.

that fight never made it out of the center of the ring, it wouldn't have mattered if it were in a ring or cage. i actually think the cage would benefit Fedor's game.

Fedor has been taking it easy because Pride was bought out and Dana was too much of a douchebag to allow him to compete in Sambo while fighting in the UFC. Dana missed the boat on this one

as much as i want to see Fedor in the UFC, i can understand Dana's position on the Sambo competitions. I blame Dana for alot of things that he hasn't done, but he was going to pay Fedor 1.5mil per fight, i can understand him wanting to protect his investment from a potential injury.

I can also understand and respect Fedor's refusal to agree to the no Sambo competition rule

i do think Fedor's destruction of Timmay will force Dana's hand and may make him reconsider his contract restrictions. He can no longer claim that "Fedor isn't even a top 5 HW" :laugh:

ZUFFA/UFC has the most dominant fighter in every weight class, its gotta be eating him up inside that he doesn't have Fedor to complete that list.

I actually have a question for all of you.

I was trying to decide who the top 5 p4p are in the world, and the first 4 were totally obvious.

GSP, BJ, Fedor and Silva. (In no particular order)

Im undecided about who I would put as that fifth best.

who would you guys put? Or what would your top 5 be in your disagree with my first four?

OH and to answer SU's question, I do not put Silva as #1.

i put Fedor #1 ahead of Silva, but like someone else said earlier, your splitting hairs with that selection.

as for the 5th person on the list, i'm going with Big Nog. his early wars from Pride are catching up with him, but he just knows how to win. his career accomplishments speak for themselves. never been finished, the only losses he hasn't avenged are to Fedor.

i'm loving Faber & Miguel Torres right now, but its still hard to quantify just how deep the talent level in their respective divisions are right now.

[Cooked Crack]

I say Fedors win was more impressive considering he defeated a former champion. Also choked him out using only one arm.

[Dance04]

I think you'd have to put the California Kid Faber in there. He might be small but that dude destroys everyone he faces including Pulver who has been touted as one of the best MMA guys around. You can't leave this guy out that's for sure. I don't think too many fighters have dominated their opponents the way he does. :2cents:

See I also feel it should be faber. He is a amazing wrestler who just outboxed pulver. He also has very, very slick submissions. His only career loss is to tyson griffin. I would love to see them fight each other in a rematch.

However, like SU said tho, his lack of quality opponents makes it hard for people to beleive he is a top 5 P4P. I do however. I wish he was fighting in the dream tourny.

[StillUnknown]

its pretty easy to see why Timmay & Arlovski left the UFC:laugh: :

[#98QBKiller]

See I also feel it should be faber. He is a amazing wrestler who just outboxed pulver. He also has very, very slick submissions. His only career loss is to tyson griffin. I would love to see them fight each other in a rematch.

However, like SU said tho, his lack of quality opponents makes it hard for people to beleive he is a top 5 P4P. I do however. I wish he was fighting in the dream tourny.

Faber's convincing win over Pulver puts him in definite consideration of #5 on your list but I'm leaning toward Big Nog like SU said. His only losses are to Fedor, Dan Henderson and Josh Barnett and he avenged the Barnett and Hendo losses.

He fought nothing but the best in Pride while he was there and has wins over Heath Herring and Tim Sylvia in the UFC.

IMO all of that puts him a notch over Faber.

[Cooked Crack]

I'm sure those Affliction salaries must have UFC fighters contacting their agents. Anderson Silva only got 200k for his fight and Decision Jab got 800k.

[Destino]

If Spider Silva continues to fight at 205 and becomes the champ of the weight class he will be considered the best p4p fighter in the world. It's all about competition and the heavy weight division is simply NOT where the best MMA fighters are found. Commonly the fighters up there are slower and much more limited in their attacks than in other weight classes.

[ZoEd]

If Spider Silva continues to fight at 205 and becomes the champ of the weight class he will be considered the best p4p fighter in the world. It's all about competition and the heavy weight division is simply NOT where the best MMA fighters are found. Commonly the fighters up there are slower and much more limited in their attacks than in other weight classes.

Nothing was slow about the punches Fedor was throwing. Fedor and Silva will never fight so unless they could meet in the middle and beat each other up we'll just have to keep on speculating. Who has Silva beat that's such a badass in the MMA world except for Hendo? Not the Hendo you're used to seeing either but a Hendo coming off a 30+ pound weight cut to fight a guy who's been competing at that weight class. Silva still has to beat some upper tier talent to be the P4P best in the world.

HW used to be where the talent was at and IMO it's a testament to how powerful the fighters are at that weight. No one can stay at the top forever but Fedor has against big Nog X2, Mark Hunt, Mark Coleman, Cro Cop, Randleman, Sylvia, Herring, Arona; how is that not top talent? List Silva's opponents; Rich Franklin X2, Travis Lutter (who was beating him on the ground), Hendo (who could have faired better if sticking to his gameplan) and Marquardt. There you have it, you do the math.

Not trying to pick at you Destino but I'm tired of the UFC pimping this guy while accusing Fedor of not being a top 5 HW and ignoring his accomplishments. Call it marketing or whatever but Dana is a douche and should quit being an arrogant prick. He needs to put the best fighters in the ring against one another instead of trying to "WWF" the MMA world by handpicking fights that showcase his "boys". Seriously, Irvin? How can that be taken seriously as a 205lb debut? One flying knee and a quick knockout is all this guy has ever accomplished and shouldn't even be in the top ten in that division.

[#98QBKiller]

If Spider Silva continues to fight at 205 and becomes the champ of the weight class he will be considered the best p4p fighter in the world. It's all about competition and the heavy weight division is simply NOT where the best MMA fighters are found. Commonly the fighters up there are slower and much more limited in their attacks than in other weight classes.

The division isn't as deep as LHW, WW or LW but there is a lot of talent at HW, most of it is just spread out nowadays.

[Destino]

Nothing was slow about the punches Fedor was throwing. Fedor and Silva will never fight so unless they could meet in the middle and beat each other up we'll just have to keep on speculating. Who has Silva beat that's such a badass in the MMA world except for Hendo? Not the Hendo you're used to seeing either but a Hendo coming off a 30+ pound weight cut to fight a guy who's been competing at that weight class. Silva still has to beat some upper tier talent to be the P4P best in the world.

HW used to be where the talent was at and IMO it's a testament to how powerful the fighters are at that weight. No one can stay at the top forever but Fedor has against big Nog X2, Mark Hunt, Mark Coleman, Cro Cop, Randleman, Sylvia, Herring, Arona; how is that not top talent? List Silva's opponents; Rich Franklin X2, Travis Lutter (who was beating him on the ground), Hendo (who could have faired better if sticking to his gameplan) and Marquardt. There you have it, you do the math.

Not trying to pick at you Destino but I'm tired of the UFC pimping this guy while accusing Fedor of not being a top 5 HW and ignoring his accomplishments. Call it marketing or whatever but Dana is a douche and should quit being an arrogant prick. He needs to put the best fighters in the ring against one another instead of trying to "WWF" the MMA world by handpicking fights that showcase his "boys". Seriously, Irvin? How can that be taken seriously as a 205lb debut? One flying knee and a quick knockout is all this guy has ever accomplished and shouldn't even be in the top ten in that division.

You seemed to miss the part where I said if Silva can fight his way through the 205's and become a champ. I agree that he has yet to fight a good enough list in the UFC. If he makes his way through a stacked LHW division however his resume will be much stronger.

Like you said HW is where the talent was in MMA. Much like boxing however the real athletes are now found below the HW level. HW is slower and while you noted that the punches were fast the general movement of the fighter is FAR FAR FAR slower.

[ZoEd]

You seemed to miss the part where I said if Silva can fight his way through the 205's and become a champ. I agree that he has yet to fight a good enough list in the UFC. If he makes his way through a stacked LHW division however his resume will be much stronger.

Like you said HW is where the talent was in MMA. Much like boxing however the real athletes are now found below the HW level. HW is slower and while you noted that the punches were fast the general movement of the fighter is FAR FAR FAR slower.

IMO the two defining divisions are LHW and WW as far as power, speed and strength combined go. No one can argue that and if Anderson did go through the LHW class and became champion in two weight classes you'd have an arguement. Could Fedor drop to 205? I just get the feeling that Fedor is in the game for the sport and not to be a star or Dana's *****.

As far as movement goes, you'd be hard pressed to find a guy that moves as well as Arlovski did the other night at any weight class.

[mvisit1]

I think some of you are forgetting the TRUE meaning of what the term "best pound for pound" fighter is. Someone does not actually have to fight at different weight classes to be considered for the title of p4p best. It has to do with skillsets and hypotheticals, NOT weight.

It's not about who moved up/down in weight, was impressive in one weight class but not another, etc. The talk should be about who's boxing is better, who's better in the clinch, who's a better wrestler, who has better BJJ, etc.

For example, Tim Sylvia would kill Urija Faber in a real match due to the size and strength difference. BUT, it's not hard to see that despite the size and strength difference, Faber is easily the better fighter. His pace and cardio are far better than Sylvia's, as is his ground game. Therefore, pound for pound, Urijah Faber is a better fighter than Tim Sylvia.

[Sebowski]

I think some of you are forgetting the TRUE meaning of what the term "best pound for pound" fighter is. Someone does not actually have to fight at different weight classes to be considered for the title of p4p best. It has to do with skillsets and hypotheticals, NOT weight.

It's not about who moved up/down in weight, was impressive in one weight class but not another, etc. The talk should be about who's boxing is better, who's better in the clinch, who's a better wrestler, who has better BJJ, etc.

For example, Tim Sylvia would kill Urija Faber in a real match due to the size and strength difference. BUT, it's not hard to see that despite the size and strength difference, Faber is easily the better fighter. His pace and cardio are far better than Sylvia's, as is his ground game. Therefore, pound for pound, Urijah Faber is a better fighter than Tim Sylvia.

Let's test out your formula with the two in question.

Better striking: Anderson Silva

Better wrestling: Fedor

Better clinch: Silva

Better Submissions: I'd say it's even though I see an argument brewing on this one

Better defense/chin: Fedor.

[StillUnknown]

Let's test out your formula with the two in question.

Better striking: Anderson Silva

Better wrestling: Fedor

Better clinch: Silva

Better Submissions: I'd say it's even though I see an argument brewing on this one

Better defense/chin: Fedor.

i pretty much agree, although i definitely give Silva the edge in Defense/Chin. i can't remember Silva ever being stunned or close to being KO'd

Fedor was almost finished by a punch from Fujita, he recovered quickly to submit Fujita, but that punch turned his legs to jello for few seconds :laugh:

[Sebowski]

i pretty much agree, although i definitely give Silva the edge in Defense/Chin. i can't remember Silva ever being stunned or close to being KO'd

Fedor was almost finished by a punch from Fujita, he recovered quickly to submit Fujita, but that punch turned his legs to jello for few seconds :laugh:

That Fujita fight was crazy.

I was also including ground defense in that category. Maybe that deserves its' own.

[#98QBKiller]

Fedor was almost finished by a punch from Fujita, he recovered quickly to submit Fujita, but that punch turned his legs to jello for few seconds :laugh:

:laugh: Fujita made Fedor do the wobble dance that day!

Let's test out your formula with the two in question.

Better striking: Anderson Silva

Better wrestling: Fedor

Better clinch: Silva

Better Submissions: I'd say it's even though I see an argument brewing on this one

Better defense/chin: Fedor.

Anderson definitely has a better chin. Out of the clinch, Anderson obviously has the better knees but Fedor is the most explosive fighter I've ever seen out of the clinch, also you forgot to mention ground and pound and Fedor has the best in MMA.

As far as movement goes, you'd be hard pressed to find a guy that moves as well as Arlovski did the other night at any weight class.

I've got my fingers crossed for Fedor vs. Arlovski in October

[Chachie]

http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=news.detail&gid=13568

The matchups for Rich Franklin, Hendo, and Karo at UFC 88.

[BigMike619]

ive been wondering what happened to hollywood. seems like his loss to rampage knocked him down way too far.

[StillUnknown]

Hendo would be wise to keep that fight standing. he's shown he can be subbed, and Pahlares BJJ is some of the best in the UFC

[Sebowski]

I've got my fingers crossed for Fedor vs. Arlovski in October

Looks like you got your wish. Mine of Fedor-Barnett will have to keep waiting.....

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=ki-afflictionvegas072308&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[ZoEd]

Looks like you got your wish. Mine of Fedor-Barnett will have to keep waiting.....

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=ki-afflictionvegas072308&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Hells yea! If the Arlovski that showed up Saturday night shows up against Fedor it should be a good fight. If not, Fedor will destroy him. I think he'll do that anyway but it will be even faster if he shows up and runs around the ring.

[#98QBKiller]

Looks like you got your wish. Mine of Fedor-Barnett will have to keep waiting.....

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=ki-afflictionvegas072308&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

:applause: Nice. I couldn't get the link to work but if Arlovski fights like he did last Saturday, it should be a war.

[StillUnknown]

depends on what Arlovski shows up. the one against Rothwell, will at least make it interesting. if the timid Arlovski shows up, it will be a short night.

Arlovski would be wise to stay out of the clinch, Fedor's quickness and his sambo will have the fight on the ground quickly where Arlovski will have no answer for his ground n pound