The Figure Four - ALL Things ECW-WWF-NJPW-TNA-ROH-AEW

[Mr. Sinister]

Fair enough. "Job," when used in professional wrestling context, has always been a dirty word to me. I also had no idea that Bam Bam Bigelow was dead.

[ACW]

Kelly Kelly in Maxim :drool:

EDIT:

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Never have I wanted to be a car so badly

Edited November 8, 2011 by ACW

[DM72]

Wrestling legend Barry Windham suffered a massive heart attack.

www.masslive.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2011/10/wrestling_legend_barry_windham.html

I don't say this often, but hats off to the WWE for helping with his medical cost.

[Heidenreich]

The Rock is getting a MASSIVE payday to lay down to John Cena at Wrestlemania. The only way the Rock wins is if he's coming back full time, which he is not.

[KDawg]

The Rock is getting a MASSIVE payday to lay down to John Cena at Wrestlemania. The only way the Rock wins is if he's coming back full time, which he is not.

If Rock loses I will be so freakin' pissed off. Unless of course, Cena is a heel, cheats to win, and then Rock beats the tar out of him. Only acceptable way.

[KDawg]

Just preordered my "Boots to Asses" shirt.Since Rock's return, he's cost me about $75 worth of t-shirts.

The first "Bring It" shirt. The American "Team Bring It" shirt. And now "Boots to Asses". My girlfriend thinks I'm a total nerd.

And then she informs me she's a Cena fan. To which I promptly Rock Bottomed her, hit The Rock's theme song on my iPod and walked out of the room.

Okay, so I didn't do that. But I'm not talking to her during WrestleMania. She's cheering for the Fruit Loop Troop.

[ixcuincle]

My boy THE ROCK was back on WWE last night

If you smell

[CrypticVillain]

Man the WWE really gets on my nerves. I knew they were going to find a way to make The Rock's return as weak as possible. All show long they should have been showing some throwback videos of some of The Rocks greatest moments to get the excitement going. Maybe have a couple of more stars talk about it. But the best they can do is have a This is Your Life for Cena that was awful and have the rock hit a rock bottom and run???

However, The Rock returning was destroyed way before tonight. They did all they can to take any heat that The Miz and truth had. Nobody even cares about them anymore because John Cena has beaten the crap out of them by himself. Why would anybody believe that they have a chance at Survivor Series.

Yet I will forgive all of that if they do one thing, turn John Cena heel. It is that simple. They had this little conspiracy angle going, how about letting Cena be behind the whole conspiracy. Just do something to put off some shock value.

I am not even going to get on them for ignoring other talents on their roster, I don't have the time. :rant:

[KDawg]

Man the WWE really gets on my nerves. I knew they were going to find a way to make The Rock's return as weak as possible. All show long they should have been showing some throwback videos of some of The Rocks greatest moments to get the excitement going. Maybe have a couple of more stars talk about it. But the best they can do is have a This is Your Life for Cena that was awful and have the rock hit a rock bottom and run???

I loved the Rock Bottom at the end. The "This is Your Life" segment fit Foley extremely well, and actually gave more heat to Cena...Cena's smiling reaction annoyed the piss out of me... Which was perfect. Say what you want about Cena, the guy knows how to get the job done. He's obviously the heel here, so by being overly "goody two shoes" about it, it annoys people. It's the PG era attitude. And The Rock is the Attitude Era. The segment was meant to be relatively boring, I'd guess. It lulls the audience to sleep... Then The Rock comes out, hits the Rock Bottom on one of his best friends and leaves. It set the stage for the hate that Rock has for Cena at the PG era of wrestling. Cena's stupid reaction served its purpose, too. It was annoying as hell.

However, The Rock returning was destroyed way before tonight. They did all they can to take any heat that The Miz and truth had. Nobody even cares about them anymore because John Cena has beaten the crap out of them by himself. Why would anybody believe that they have a chance at Survivor Series.

I agree with this. They screwed up Truth and Miz pretty bad.

Yet I will forgive all of that if they do one thing, turn John Cena heel. It is that simple. They had this little conspiracy angle going, how about letting Cena be behind the whole conspiracy. Just do something to put off some shock value.

I don't want Cena to be behind the conspiracy, it doesn't make sense storyline wise. But I do want him to turn.

By the way, did you watch the rest of RAW? I thought the final segment with the Rock was great. The fact that he and Cena wouldn't even look at each other was awesome. And when Rock pulled Miz (might have been Truth, don't remember) out of the Attitude Adjustment and Rock Bottomed him, and then stood on the ramp and said to Cena, "All day, *****.".. It added great heat to that feud. I just wish the WWE didn't cripple Truth and Miz in the process.

[CrypticVillain]

By the way, did you watch the rest of RAW? I thought the final segment with the Rock was great. The fact that he and Cena wouldn't even look at each other was awesome. And when Rock pulled Miz (might have been Truth, don't remember) out of the Attitude Adjustment and Rock Bottomed him, and then stood on the ramp and said to Cena, "All day, *****.".. It added great heat to that feud. I just wish the WWE didn't cripple Truth and Miz in the process.

Honestly, I think the whole show was good. The end was nice, but it just felt like something was missing.

I don't know how I would tie Cena into being a heel. Maybe he can say that the WWE wanted him to be a yes man and he had enough. Maybe he can say that the WWE was jocking The Rock too much and he had enough. It is wishful thinking though. If Cena turns hell they would lose some scrilla in merchandising sales. Plus that WWE 12' video game is coming out Tuesday, I doubt they would want to mess up.

I just want to be surprised on Sunday. I want them to do something that catches me off guard.

[KDawg]

I don't know how I would tie Cena into being a heel. Maybe he can say that the WWE wanted him to be a yes man and he had enough. Maybe he can say that the WWE was jocking The Rock too much and he had enough. It is wishful thinking though. If Cena turns hell they would lose some scrilla in merchandising sales. Plus that WWE 12' video game is coming out Tuesday, I doubt they would want to mess up.

CM Punk has surpassed Cena in merchandise. And by the way, I think a lot of people would actually become Cena fans on a heel turn.

Cena turning is easy. Have him attack the Rock and leave him lying at the end of Survivor Series. Or, have Cena lose to Rock at Mania, but after the match Cena jumps him and beats the crap out of him. Loses his mind.

His explanation is simple. The Rock is a bully. He's sick of the crowd cheering a bully. He's sick of being the good guy. He's sick of being booed for doing the right thing. He's John Cena. He deserves the praise, the kudos. He carried the company for years when injury prone old guys like HHH and Stone Cold couldn't carry the flag any more. He was there when Rock disappeared for seven years. he carried the company, and he was despised for it because he wasn't the bully who acted big and bad. He's tired of that schtick. He doesn't want the Rock's role as "People's Champion"... Screw the people. They're sheep.

Then bring in a small group of wrestlers to team with him. "The Chain Gang". Make them what Nexus should have been. Have Cena take part of the old character, minus the horrendous rapping. He dresses different, acts different. He goes from PG Era to Attitude Era. Make him a true heel ala Rock/Austin/HHH where they were cheered for being so charasmatic but a were real pricks.

Cena has talent. He can wrestle decently, he just doesn't. He can work a mic. And he has charisma. Let him use it.

[That Redskins Fan]

Cena will not turn heel

1. vincent kennedy mchmahon it was bought up months ago at meeting to turn Cena heel and vince belittlke the person who bought it up.

2. Cena fans base of pre teens tweenes and women adore cena a heel turn would hurt vkm Pockets.

3. Cena unlike hulk hogan heel turn which re birth him Hogan imo will do more to harm Cena,

[KDawg]

3. Cena unlike hulk hogan heel turn which re birth him Hogan imo will do more to harm Cena,

Completely disagree. It would do a WHOLE lot of good with a LOT of wrestling fans.

He'd lose some kids. Sure. But he'd gain a ton of adults. Who, by the way, spend more money. Heels aren't like they used to be. They used to not sell a lot of merchandise. Today, heels are beloved more than "faces". The Rock is a heel character that gets cheered. Stone Cold is a heel character that gets cheered. Even when they were the "bad guys" they still got cheered. Same with HHH. Same with CM Punk.

[Mr. Sinister]

I'm not a Cena fan. The only people that won't tolerate Cena The Heel, would be small children. It needs to happen, in my opinion of course.Personally, I would love it.

[CrypticVillain]

Today, heels are beloved more than "faces". The Rock is a heel character that gets cheered. Stone Cold is a heel character that gets cheered. Even when they were the "bad guys" they still got cheered. Same with HHH. Same with CM Punk.

You know whoelse I can add to that list: Randy Orton, Edge, and Chris Jericho. When those three were heels, I think they were on top of their game. Especially Edge. When he came out with that Rated R Superstar, it is over.

My thing with Cena turning heel has more to do with the entertainment aspect than anything else. I am getting tired of seeing the same of stuff year after year. This man has had the same gimmick since 04. Show some variety. That is one thing I like about TNA. They might go overboard a lot, but you never know what to expect from those fools.

[Mr. Sinister]

Reading ML's above post, a few things that I regret about abandoning the WWE after Backlash '04, were the rise of Eddie Guerrero (RIP) to Elite status, watching the continuation of The Undertaker's return of the Deadman gimmick, Kurt Angle (who's character was evolving into a vicious pitbull), the reformation of the Original DX, and yes, Edge.

I had been waiting to see Edge break out for awhile, but he just disappeared on me, and I was left with watching a top heavy Raw that revolved around HHH, and the Smackdown brand which seemed utterly clueless at times.

I feel robbed that I missed out on all of that.

Edited November 17, 2011 by Mr. Sinister

[KDawg]

You know whoelse I can add to that list: Randy Orton, Edge, and Chris Jericho. When those three were heels, I think they were on top of their game. Especially Edge. When he came out with that Rated R Superstar, it is over.

Even when they're "faces" they're not the goody two shoes "face" characters that we used to have. Hulk Hogan was a goody good. A lot of the older guys were either goody goods, or bad guys. The line is blurred MUCH more now. The bad guys get cheered like faces. Rock clearly has good guy tendencies. He's about the people, for the people, the voice of the people... He preaches values and hard work. Good guy traits... But the way he acts with others, such as Foley? Heel qualities. Yet he's cheered. And deservedly so. The Rock is my all time favorite wrestler. He's a "real" character. Not a goody good.

The same could be said for Austin. Back in the day, drinking beer and waving your finger in the air would have been an absolute heel quality if they even would have allowed it. But today, it's real. It's a connection. He's cheered. And again, he's one of my favorites of all time, probably top 5. These guys have MAJOR heel tendencies, but they aren't heels.

They CAN do the same with Cena. And I can guarantee you, a lot of people who despise him now would be entertained by him much more in the future. It's a chance to revitalize the product. John Cena is a Hogan Era face. That's where the disconnect comes in. It's too unbelievable for today's wrestling fan. Back then, it would have been embraced. Today, it's annoying. So let's make Cena real.

[Mr. Sinister]

.John Cena is a Hogan Era face. That's where the disconnect comes in. It's too unbelievable for today's wrestling fan. Back then, it would have been embraced. Today, it's annoying. So let's make Cena real.

That is EXACTLY how I feel .You nailed it. Every time I see Cena's character, it reminds me of the early 90's, mainly Bret Hart, and Shawn Michaels, with that stupid fan Kliq Cam that he would use on the crowd. Talking about perseverance, standing up to bullies, never giving up, giving kids your sunglasses/wristbands/whatever, the cheesy-ness of it is overwhelming. It just makes me want to jump out of a window. I'm ordering Survivor Series this Sunday.

I also just ordered me a Team Bring It T-shirt off WWE Shop. This will be the first live PPV that I will have seen in almost 8 years.

Edited November 17, 2011 by Mr. Sinister

[KDawg]

That is EXACTLY how I feel .You nailed it. Every time I see Cena's character, it reminds me of the early 90's, mainly Bret Hart, and Shawn Michaels, with that stupid fan Kliq Cam that he would use on the crowd. Talking about perseverance, standing up to bullies, never giving up, giving kids your sunglasses/wristbands/whatever, the cheesy-ness of it is overwhelming. It just makes me want to jump out of a window. I'm ordering Survivor Series this Sunday.

I also just ordered me a Team Bring It T-shirt off WWE Shop. This will be the first live PPV that I will have seen in almost 8 years.

Welcome to the "rehooked' club. I didn't watch wrestling regularly, until, as fate would have it, the night of The Rock's return on RAW when he was announced as the host of WM. Three Team bring it T-Shirts and now this is my third WWE PPV ordered in the last year.

I'm actually really, really enjoying wrestling again. WWE screws a lot of stuff up, but they still put on a damned good product. And, we know its fake. But, it's still a heck of a lot of fun. The funny comments that CM Punk makes and those little things make it great.

JR/Cole feud make it stupid. Which is why DVR is great. Fast forward through really dumb stuff.

[Mr. Sinister]

Welcome to the "rehooked' club. I didn't watch wrestling regularly, until, as fate would have it, the night of The Rock's return on RAW when he was announced as the host of WM. Three Team bring it T-Shirts and now this is my third WWE PPV ordered in the last year.

I'm actually really, really enjoying wrestling again. WWE screws a lot of stuff up, but they still put on a damned good product. And, we know its fake. But, it's still a heck of a lot of fun. The funny comments that CM Punk makes and those little things make it great.

JR/Cole feud make it stupid. Which is why DVR is great. Fast forward through really dumb stuff.

Yeah, same here. I hadn't given the WWE a single thought until I actually found out that he came back (thanks to you guys, and this thread, as well as a few people at work) back in February.

I've caught a couple RAW's every now and then since, but I've never been truly back, until now. I've actually watched quite a few of the PPV's from the "Attitude Era" as it is now called, just to relive some childhood memories. It's crazy looking at all of the stuff that's changed since then. But yes, I am back, and will be for as long as I am entertained.

The Rock brought me back to the WWE!

[CrypticVillain]

Unfortunately, I have been watching wrestling non-stop since about '99. I saw the good, the bad, and the downright laughable. Right now, it is good with potential to become great. TNA is really dramatic, but you still have some good things going over there.

First of all, they need to get rid of this stupid brand separation. It was lame when it was first announced, it is even lamer now. The already started with this Raw Supershow non-sense, but they need to put the final nail in the coffin. Nobody cares about Smackdown...

As far as WWE goes, they can make their product so much better. But Vince is too stupid and stubborn to realize that:

This JR/Michael Cole thing is stupid. JR should return to calling action and Cole should become a heel manager for somebody. It would be major heat for Michael Cole if that were to happen.

Another thing WWE needs to do is put some more stock into their other belts. How about making the Intercontinental and US belts a main event on RAW once in awhile. We don't need to see Cena on every main event every week.

The tag-team division in the WWE was building some momentum until Evan Bourne was suspended. Once he comes back, they need to keep it rolling.

Dolph Ziggler is about to start making some noise in this company. He is arguably their second best talent now behind CM Punk. I know they see it because he has been talking a lot more often the last couple of months.

Let me be a writer for WWE. I'll have this show so good that it would force Universal/NBC to put RAW on NBC on Monday Nights

[Mr. Sinister]

I agree with the brand separation, at least for right now. prior to my '04-'11 hiatus, I had watched wrestling since I was 5 years old ('93-'94). There was too much talent for one show, so they had to do something, hence the brand separation. I didn't like it then, but it at least gave other wrestlers the opportunity to make a name for themselves. I think the problem occured when The Rock left for the movies honestly, along with Austin's departure from the company.

With the WWE's two biggest stars gone, I think the WWE took a huge hit. I also think they shuffeled their creative department, and that's when all the mularkey began. I still think it was good from '02-'04, but in '04, I started noticing that the WWE was bringing in a lot of "look" guys. Big, physically impressive looking guys with no talent, and along with Lesnar's departure, as well as the deaths of Eddie Guerrero and Benoit, etc, things got worse.

Edited November 17, 2011 by Mr. Sinister

[TK]

There's "jobbing" & there's "putting a guy over".

Since Rock isn't back full time, I expect him put Cena over.

[MattFancy]

There's "jobbing" & there's "putting a guy over".

Since Rock isn't back full time, I expect him put Cena over.

But how can you put someone like Cena over? He's already the top guy.

[KingGibbs]

I guess I'm in the minority when it comes to The Rock. I think he's lame. He's becoming the new Undertaker with his occasional appearance.

"Team Bring It." Really?

Cena is essentially a good guy and heel at the same time. Listen to the crowds.

Loved how Cena absolutely destroyed Rock on the mic earlier this year and don't tell me he didn't either.