what constitutes the "south"

[MissU28]

I have an ongoing debate with this dude....

When someone says they're from the "south", or you talk about the "south" as a general term....where are you thinking about in your head?

THE south, to me, is Lousiana, Georgia, South Carolina, Mississippi, etc.

This dude tells me that Texas is considered the South. Texas, in my opinion, is SouthWEST.... If someone told me they're from the south, I'd never guess they were from Texas...or even Florida. They're geographically south, but I wouldn't call them THE south.

What do you think, am I totally off here?

[Rocky21]

MissU,

I'd start with the Mason Dixon Line.

[techboy]

I know a lot of Texans, and they consider Texas the "South". I'd have to say it might just be you.

[MissU28]

MissU,

I'd start with the Mason Dixon Line.

i know what's geographically south....but culturally "the south"....

[SkinsOrlando]

People in Florida consider themselves southeners. I found this out when i moved down here. Of course when I moved from MD/DC area to Ohio, the Ohio people considered me from the south. So it's all in one's own perception.

[MissU28]

I know a lot of Texans, and they consider Texas the "South". I'd have to say it might just be you.

the dude who says this is a texan.... and he says other texans think that.... BUT I DONT SEE IT

[rincewind]

MissU,

I'd start with the Mason Dixon Line.

If that's the case Maryland would be in the 'south.'

Its a weird thing the 'south' - i wouldn't consider Texas as part of the 'south,' but i would consider Tenn (hell, zoony says it all the time and he lives there) and Tenn. is pretty far north. I think it has a lot to do with loyalties during the Civil War.

[dfitzo53]

I'd say the "South" ends at, but includes, Texas. Texans are a special breed of southerner, but I think they still count. It depends on what you're talking about though.

[gchwood]

The south is anywhere where you can get sweet tea ( and I mean sweet, not sweetened) and fried okra!

[The Evil Genius]

I have always been confused by people who live in Ohio and bordering states who refer to themselves as mid-westerners.

Wouldn't the midwest really be states like Kansas, Nebraska, etc?

[MissU28]

I have always been confused by people who live in Ohio and bordering states who refer to themselves as mid-westerners.

Wouldn't the midwest really be states like Kansas, Nebraska, etc?

that's what i'm saying!

[dfitzo53]

I have always been confused by people who live in Ohio and bordering states who refer to themselves as mid-westerners.

Wouldn't the midwest really be states like Kansas, Nebraska, etc?

My guess is that the term has been around longer than the truly Western states, making Indiana, Illinois, and other such states the Midwest.

[slackermike]

From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_United_States

As defined by the Census Bureau, the Southern region of the United States includes 16 states, and is split into three smaller units, or divisions: The South Atlantic States, which are Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Maryland, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia and West Virginia (plus the District of Columbia); the East South Central States of Alabama, Kentucky, Mississippi and Tennessee; and the West South Central States of Arkansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma and Texas. The region as defined by the Census Bureau currently contains eight of the twenty-five largest metropolitan areas in the United States, as well as portions of two others. However, not all definitions of the South are based on strictly geographic divisions, with culture and history also playing a large role in defining what is the South. For example, the Deep South is a cultural and geographic subregion of the American South which consists of that part of the Mississippi delta region found in East Arkansas and the states of South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, and Louisiana (six of the seven original states of the Confederate States of America, the seventh state being Texas). Historically, the South can also refer to the Old South, the Southern states represented in the original thirteen American colonies: Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia. The Deep South and the Old South used to be known colloquially as Dixie, and may still be referred to nostalgically as such.

The border states of the Civil War constitute a major definitional problem for the South. Missouri and Kentucky both formed rump secessionist governments that applied for admission to the Confederacy, and both remain partly or mostly Southern in culture to this day; across the Ohio and Mississippi, even portions of Illinois and Indiana south of Interstate 70 and especially Interstate 64 exhibit strong Southern cultural characteristics. West Virginia is a unique case, as it itself seceded from Virginia out of reluctance to join the Confederacy and retains an almost prickly sense of independence; whether it is culturally part of the South depends both on what area of the state is under discussion (northern areas being more closely aligned with Pennsylvania and the Rust Belt) and on what distinction the viewer cares to draw between Appalachian and Southern culture. Maryland and Delaware, south of the main length of the Mason-Dixon Line, were slave states at the time of the Civil War, but did not secede; in ensuing decades, Southern influence waned considerably in Delaware and the urbanized portions of Maryland, but remains present in parts of rural Maryland, especially the state's Eastern Shore.

Culturally, two geographically Southern metropolitan areas merit special discussion. The cities of South Florida hardly existed at all prior to the completion of railroads the length of Florida's Atlantic coast in the 1880s and 1890s, and initially developed as resort towns serving a mostly-Northeastern clientele. That influence continued and eventually drew significant numbers of permanent migrants, and has since been flavored by a large influx of Latin American (especially Cuban) immigration; the resulting unique cultural mix has been attractive to many, but could hardly be considered classically Southern. The Washington, D.C. metropolitan area sat on a cultural fault line for many years between Northern-trending Maryland and resolutely Southern Virginia, and the Washington Redskins and Washington Senators professional sports franchises were considered the "home teams of the South" before 1960s expansion in their respective sports. Since the 1970s, though, urbanization and suburbanization accelerated dramatically with the expansion of the defense and technology economy, particularly in Northern Virginia; nowadays, Southern cultural influence begins to degrade at the edges of this area and is shadowy at best by the time one reaches the Capital Beltway.

Biologically, the South is a vast, diverse region, having numerous climatic zones ranging from temperate, to sub-tropical, to tropical, to arid. Many crops grow easily in its soils and can be grown without frost for at least six months of the year. Some parts of the South, particularly the Southeast, have landscape characterized by the presence of live oaks, magnolia trees, jessamine vines, and flowering dogwoods. Another common environment is the bayous and swampland of the Gulf Coast, especially in Louisiana, which looms large in American film history. The South is famously a victim of kudzu, a fast-growing vine which covers large amounts of land and kills indigenous plant life.

[Johnny Punani2]

i know what's geographically south....but culturally "the south"....

"The South" starts in Fredericksburg & South from there.

[fight_on_til_you_have_won]

Assuming we're not speaking solely in literal geographic terms, it seems like more of a frame of mind and way of life than anything else. Living in Chicago, I describe myself as being from the east coast and not from the south (I grew up in VA and NC).

Continuing that thought, I have to say Indiana is the most southern northern state I've ever seen. No wonder the NFL put the Colts in the AFC South. :laugh:

[More Complete]

Florida is not considered a southern state. There are far more Yankees than southerners living there. :laugh:

[dfitzo53]

Continuing that thought, I have to say Indiana is the most southern northern state I've ever seen. No wonder the NFL put the Colts in the AFC South. :laugh:

I hear that.

[stevenaa]

I consider Texas SouthWest.

[Fergasun]

To me the South starts below Northern Virginia. To the East, is the Ocean. To the West you've got Kentucky, Tennesee, and Arkansas.

I would consider anything East of Houston to be the South, but beyond Houston is where I draw the line. The evil city is debatable, but San Antonio is definately the Southwest. I'm sure you could draw the line North on the eastern side of the Mexican border.

[SkinsHokieFan]

The intersection I-81 and I-66

Everything changes culturally from that point South, all the way to Miami

If you go to places in North Florida, you have some interesting folks you will run into

[fight_on_til_you_have_won]

I have always been confused by people who live in Ohio and bordering states who refer to themselves as mid-westerners.

Wouldn't the midwest really be states like Kansas, Nebraska, etc?

My take is that the Midwest has been synonymous with the Rust Belt for a long time, which includes Ohio and western Pennsylvania. Also, the term was probably coined long before the US became what it is now. Hell, Northwestern University is in Evanston, Illinois (just north of Chicago). :whoknows:

[TheDoyler23]

On the eastern seaboard; The northernmost place where the residents cannot pronounce "Washington."

[skinfan133]

i know what's geographically south....but culturally "the south"....

culturally? well then we'd have to include southern, central, and westrn virginia on down, from atlantic to texas and from missouri to kentuky above the mason-dixon line. some would even say southern ohio has since been culturally south.

for most purposes id say the south is the former confederacy, minus northern virginia.

[Cdowwe]

I usually think of Texas as the south along, but its always hard for me to consider Florida the south, even though it is.

[Sebowski]

I like the Sweet Tea test.

Texas is Texas. The state is big enough to be considered it's own region, just like CA isn't really considered the "southwest" it is just California. I think Florida has something similar going for it too. At least south of Orlando anyway. Orlando and up is pretty "Southern".

Here is one I have always had trouble with: People calling San Fransisco Nothern California. San Fran is right in the middle of CA. If that is Northen CA, then what is Sacramento?