School's 'Holocaust' Experiment Upsets Parents

[China]

School's 'Holocaust' Experiment Upsets Parents

Dad: Son Cried Over Becoming Jew For Day

POSTED: 5:53 pm EST March 29, 2006

UPDATED: 2:40 pm EST March 30, 2006

Several parents in Apopka, Fla., are upset over a surprise school "Holocaust" project that some say tormented children, according to a Local 6 News report.

Local 6 News reported that eighth-graders with last names beginning with L through Z at Apopka Memorial Middle School were given yellow five-pointed stars for Holocaust Remembrance Day. Other students were privileged, the report said.

"Children were selected to be persecuted or privileged, some not told the rule," Local 6 reporter Gerald Reznick said. "Parents tell Local 6 they were not told prior to the school-wide experiment."

Father John Tinnelly said his son was forced to stand in the back of the classroom and not allowed to sit because he was wearing the yellow star.

"He was forced to go to the back of the lunch line four times by an administrator," Tinnelly said.

Tinnelly said the experiment upset his child.

"He was crying," Tinnelly said. "I said, 'What are you crying about?' He said, 'Daddy, I was a Jew today.'"

Other parents and children shared similar stories, Tinnelly said.

"They were told that they could not use the water fountains," Tinnely said. "There was even a sign supposedly at one water fountain (saying) if you're wearing a yellow star , you can't use this water fountain."

Tinnelly said he believes it is important to teach the Holocaust, but apparently little was learned during the experiment.

"I tried to talk to my son and I asked all of these questions and the only thing he said is, 'Daddy, the only thing I found out today is I don't want to be Jewish,'" Tinnelly said.

"Children were selected to be persecuted or privileged, some not told the rule," Local 6 reporter Gerald Reznick said. "Parents tell Local 6 they were not told prior to the school-wide experiment."

"Teachers felt that it would have defeated the purpose to tell the students ahead of time because that would have prepared them," Principal Douglas Guthrie said. "Students came in and all they got was a star."

"This was supposed to be a creative way to teach the horrors of the Holocaust but unfortunately, it has sparked controversy and more importantly, it has sparked conversation," Reznick said. "We have now heard from nearly a dozen parents (who are) very upset."

Local 6 News aired a statement from The Holocaust Memorial Resource and Education Center of Florida; "Of course, we applaud Apopka (Memorial) Middle School's effort to engage in Holocaust education with the hope of a tolerance education component in the classroom. That is the mission of The Center to teach tolerance through Holocaust remembrance and education. However, we do not encourage nor train teachers to engage in simulation exercises."

Guthrie admitted that he would do some things differently in the exercise because of complaints but said some kids got the message, Reznick said.

"They need to know, we don't want history to repeat itself," Guthrie said.

[Big Weirdo]

Who is the brilliant person that came up with this idea? No wonder this country is among the dumbest in the world.

[Thiebear]

"Children were selected to be persecuted or privileged, some not told the rule," Local 6 reporter Gerald Reznick said. "Parents tell Local 6 they were not told prior to the school-wide experiment."

"Teachers felt that it would have defeated the purpose to tell the students ahead of time because that would have prepared them," Principal Douglas Guthrie said. "Students came in and all they got was a star."

Every teacher / administrator that participated should have a star taped to their shirt and kicked the **** out the door... Not notifying the parents nor telling the students ahead of time is what?

Whats next? Next year give them black armbands take them outside and hit them with firehoses and have German Shepards bite them to teach them how hard it was on blacks trying to win equality?

idiots.. (But you cant give them an aspirin)..

[Xameil]

If they were going to do that at least let it be high school freshmen, or some age group in HS. At least they can put 2 +2 together....

...hopefully :paranoid:

[Predicto]

I'm sorry. While this may have been a lame experiment for the school to do, this kid is not a little first grader or anything. He is in EIGHTH GRADE.

"Tinnelly said the experiment upset his child. 'He was crying,' Tinnelly said. 'I said, "What are you crying about?" He said, "Daddy, I was a Jew today."' Other parents and children shared similar stories, Tinnelly said. "They were told that they could not use the water fountains," Tinnely said. "There was even a sign supposedly at one water fountain (saying) if you're wearing a yellow star , you can't use this water fountain." Tinnelly said he believes it is important to teach the Holocaust, but apparently little was learned during the experiment. 'I tried to talk to my son and I asked all of these questions and the only thing he said is, 'Daddy, the only thing I found out today is I don't want to be Jewish,'" Tinnelly said."

Mister, it sounds to me like your son is a first class moron, or you are making stuff up so that you can get all aggrieved and sue the school district.

[Major Harris]

Who is the brilliant person that came up with this idea? No wonder this country is among the dumbest in the world.

come again?

[chomerics]

Yea, teaching our kids reality really sucks huh. If they think their kids were ridiculed, how do they think Anne Frank felt?

I actually think it is a brilliant method of teaching, and they should switch the sides so EVERYONE knows what it feels like, not just have 1/2 the kids wear stars for a week, and that's it, but put stars on the other kids and let them know what it feels like.

Reality, maybe we should try exposing our kids to what our history is all about, maybe that is the best way NOT to repeat it

:2cents:

[iheartskins]

I wouldn't be surprised if this experience is the closest that a lot of these kids may ever get to feeling like a minority. Granted we've come a long, long way, but I think it's very important, not only from a historical perspective, but from a humanity perspective, to remind ourselves what it was like to have to endure prejudice.

I'm not sure I agree with the method here, but I think the theme is extraordinarily important.

[jrockster21]

I'm sorry. While this may have been a lame experiment for the school to do, this kid is not a little first grader or anything. He is in EIGHTH GRADE.

Mister, it sounds to me like your son is a first class moron, or you are making stuff up so that you can get all aggrieved and sue the school district.

This is exactly what I thought when reading this. The kid was a friggin' 8th grader. The dad is either way too overprotective of his crybaby son or he's trying to get paid.

Who is the brilliant person that came up with this idea? No wonder this country is among the dumbest in the world.

Ooooh...I'd stay away from the "America is dumb" comments around here...:2cents:

[DCRunner]

I completely agree with you, Predicto. You, too, Chom. The complaining parents are idiots. This isn't exactly a new type of experiment. Lots of schools do this.

These are 13 and 14 year olds. Some teenager was crying? How the hell are these parents raising these kids. Was this a developmentally challenged class? They are more than old enough to have grasped what was going on and that this was a learning experience, even without being warned before about the "experiment." And if they can't suck it up for this short period of time and put themselves in the shoes of those who suffered then they may never learn empathy and a sense of injustice.

Actually, I believe you need to develop these traits in kids before they are about 11 or 12 or it may be too late. By the time I was 12 one of my goals was to help Simon Weisenthal track down nazis. The ability to sense injustice and become enraged by it and the real desire to do something about it - to feel you MUST do something about it - needs to be internalized. The Apopka experiment is quite telling in what it reveals about our failure as parents. I hope the whining parents were in the minority and that the majority of parents were able to build on the lessons offered in the exercise.

[englitdaudelin]

As a teacher, I've gone to oodles of trainings on how to teach literature of the holocaust-- and NOBODY-- not the Holocaust Museum in DC, not the local synagogues--nobody recommends this kind of methodology. A common simulation used to be to crowd all the students into a corner to simulate the trains or the bunkrooms--- just without the dark, or machine guns, or dehydration and starvation.

One of two things happens-- either you get reactions like this, where kids learn the wrong lessons from being ostracized, or you get kids who can't take it seriously. It's very difficult to get any kind of realistic teaching which conveys the horror of the Holocaust. Most current scholarship suggests teachers just need to use the literature as fully as possible; use video, pictures, text, audio, and so on.

I think it's important to teach that "reality sucks," but is this the way to do it? It's not really in my job description to make a student feel oppressed just because to make a point.

Now, oppressed because he / she can't write his/her way out of a wet paper bag-- I'm down with that.

[Ghost of]

I wouldn't be surprised if this experience is the closest that a lot of these kids may ever get to feeling like a minority. Granted we've come a long, long way, but I think it's very important, not only from a historical perspective, but from a humanity perspective, to remind ourselves what it was like to have to endure prejudice.

I'm not sure I agree with the method here, but I think the theme is extraordinarily important.

I actually agree. I think we should avoid such experiments with small children but I think this kind of thing means more than showing tapes of Schindler's List or some other movie. And this goes beyond 'prejudice' but also to how we treat human beings in general. Some kids lack strong native empathy and a lesson or two might convince them otherwise. Of course, being the victim in a real setting could send them down a path of hatred anyway.

I would say, though, that there are plenty of places where a WASP kid might feel prejudice or some other form of ethnic, religious or racial abuse. But I digress.

[stevenaa]

I would have done it before Holocaust Remembrance day and just picked two colors for badges. Then, on Holocaust Remebrance day, a good discussion could have been had.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Honestly I think this is brilliant, you know damn well those kids learned something that day

And as is being said in this thread, they were 8th graders, 14 year olds. They can handle that for one day

[Soliloquy]

Shades of "The Wave":

http://entertainment.msn.com/movies/movie.aspx?m=581383

[zoony]

I'm sorry. While this may have been a lame experiment for the school to do, this kid is not a little first grader or anything. He is in EIGHTH GRADE.

"Tinnelly said the experiment upset his child. 'He was crying,' Tinnelly said. 'I said, "What are you crying about?" He said, "Daddy, I was a Jew today."' Other parents and children shared similar stories, Tinnelly said. "They were told that they could not use the water fountains," Tinnely said. "There was even a sign supposedly at one water fountain (saying) if you're wearing a yellow star , you can't use this water fountain." Tinnelly said he believes it is important to teach the Holocaust, but apparently little was learned during the experiment. 'I tried to talk to my son and I asked all of these questions and the only thing he said is, 'Daddy, the only thing I found out today is I don't want to be Jewish,'" Tinnelly said."

Mister, it sounds to me like your son is a first class moron, or you are making stuff up so that you can get all aggrieved and sue the school district.

NAILED IT!!!!!!!!!!!! :notworthy

[redskins4life234]

Teaching the Halocaust is right, but I think this went to an extreme. One quote said something like "I learned I dont want to be a jew"

So now this is promoting being a Jew is a bad thing.. and Hitler did the right thing?

This went way to far. Also, maybe doing it dyuring oh your 5th period class, but to bring ti to lunch and a kid being made to go to the back 4 times is unfair. I would egt pissed off if i was at the front then got told to move to the back 4 times.

[zoony]

[rant]

And for the record, I actually think this was a good idea.

Why do we need to protect our children from EVERYTHING? Get a grip...

An old boss of mine said it best... "you never REALLY learn anything until you're a little uncomfortable"

I bet those kids learned a lot about the holocaust. Nobody was hurt physically or emotionally... except the 14 year old ***** who cried because he had to stand in the back of the room. You know what? GOOD. I hope he was humiliated crying in front of the 9th grade... maybe he won't do it anymore. Sounds like he's got issues much deeper than these. :2cents:

[/rant]

[chomerics]

Teaching the Halocaust is right, but I think this went to an extreme. One quote said something like "I learned I dont want to be a jew"

Yea, but I think that kid was either

a. being a wise ass or

b. raised by parents who are imbiciles

So now this is promoting being a Jew is a bad thing.. and Hitler did the right thing?

Nope, you are reading it wrong. If that is what the kid learned from the experience, then he has some serious psychological development issues and the parents are to blame.

This went way to far. Also, maybe doing it dyuring oh your 5th period class, but to bring ti to lunch and a kid being made to go to the back 4 times is unfair. I would egt pissed off if i was at the front then got told to move to the back 4 times.

Maybe they did go a bit too far, but it was a great idea, and it exposes kids to something they would not be exposed to in their lives. It gives them an oppertunity to understand the otherside. It is what theaching a child is all about.

[chomerics]

BTW, glad to see some people in here understand what these teachers were doing, and why it is a good thing.

[Jumbo]

i'm with iheart on this. some accurately call it the invisible privilage, as many members of the dominant group don't believe they have it. i'm pleased to say i've seen real hard-core opinions change on that when its presented in a certain way.

its not a simple matter. it's not about a bunch of the "typical" points made and "typical" knee-jerk reactions on any side of the social dialogue.

and experiencing a brief slice, even an intense one, of being treated as inferior as part of your basic being, is far different from dealing with it in a pervasive and intrusive manner through most of your life.

[Mr. Nostril]

Ok, so I understand why the teachers did it. They want the kids to understand why the holocaust was such a bad thing. And it can be difficult to get the idea into their brains in any meaningful way by just telling them about it. So, they wanted an object lesson. That all makes sense.

But here's the problem. The holocaust was wrong, because all human life is inherently equal, people shouldn't be singeled out for punishment or privledge based on the uncontrolable aspects of their life. However, the school did exactly what they shoud have been trying to educate their students against, and that's wrong. It's wrong is the nazi's do it over a long period of time and millions of people die, and it's wrong if a school does it to a group of kids for a day and everyone goes home safe.

Really, I think this type of experiment does more to promote prejudice, than it does to demean it. Because after this experiment you could certainly walk away thinking, "it's okay to treat one person as less than other, as long as you don't actually hurt people, because, hey, the school did it."

[twa]

Sounds like a good idea,though they might have went a little overboard.

It is hard to tell from the article and with the whiny parents we have today.

[chomerics]

Ok, so I understand why the teachers did it. They want the kids to understand why the holocaust was such a bad thing. And it can be difficult to get the idea into their brains in any meaningful way by just telling them about it. So, they wanted an object lesson. That all makes sense.

agreed

But here's the problem. The holocaust was wrong, because all human life is inherently equal, people shouldn't be singeled out for punishment or privledge based on the uncontrolable aspects of their life.

I agree up to here. . .

However, the school did exactly what they shoud have been trying to educate their students against, and that's wrong. It's wrong is the nazi's do it over a long period of time and millions of people die, and it's wrong if a school does it to a group of kids for a day and everyone goes home safe.

the best way to educate is through experience. Let the kids know how it feels to be repressed and a minority in society.

Really, I think this type of experiment does more to promote prejudice, than it does to demean it. Because after this experiment you could certainly walk away thinking, "it's okay to treat one person as less than other, as long as you don't actually hurt people, because, hey, the school did it."

I think you are looking at it from the point of the opressor, look at it from the pont of the minority. If you had a star, would you be MORE or LESS apt to pick on a minority population in your life?

[Guest Gichin13]

I can see both sides ... personally, I thought it an interesting method of communicating these ideas, and I also think prior information would have eliminated its impact.