School's 'Holocaust' Experiment Upsets Parents

[Thiebear]

School's 'Black' Experiment Upsets Parents

Dad: Son Cried Over Becoming Black For a Day

POSTED: 5:53 pm EST March 29, 2006

UPDATED: 2:40 pm EST March 30, 2006

Several parents in Apopka, Fla., are upset over a surprise school "Black" project that some say tormented children, according to a Local 6 News report.

Local 6 News reported that eighth-graders with last names beginning with L through Z at Apopka Memorial Middle School were given a black armband for Civil right rememberance day. Other students were white, the report said.

"Children were selected to be persecuted or privileged, some not told the rule," Local 6 reporter Gerald Reznick said. "Parents tell Local 6 they were not told prior to the school-wide experiment."

Father John Tinnelly said his son was forced to stand in the back of the classroom and not allowed to sit because he was wearing the black armband.

"He was forced to go to the back of the lunch line four times by an administrator," Tinnelly said.

Tinnelly said the experiment upset his child.

"He was crying," Tinnelly said. "I said, 'What are you crying about?' He said, 'Daddy, I was Black today.'"

Other parents and children shared similar stories, Tinnelly said.

"They were told that they could not use the water fountains," Tinnely said. "There was even a sign supposedly at one water fountain (saying) if you're wearing Black Armband , you can't use this water fountain."

Tinnelly said he believes it is important to teach Civil rights, but apparently little was learned during the experiment.

"I tried to talk to my son and I asked all of these questions and the only thing he said is, 'Daddy, the only thing I found out today is I don't want to be Black,'" Tinnelly said.

"Children were selected to be persecuted or privileged, some not told the rule," Local 6 reporter Gerald Reznick said. "Parents tell Local 6 they were not told prior to the school-wide experiment."

"Teachers felt that it would have defeated the purpose to tell the students ahead of time because that would have prepared them," Principal Douglas Guthrie said. "Students came in and all they got was an armband."

"This was supposed to be a creative way to teach the horrors of the the Civil Rights movement but unfortunately, it has sparked controversy and more importantly, it has sparked conversation," Reznick said. "We have now heard from nearly a dozen parents (who are) very upset."

Local 6 News aired a statement from NAACP and Education Center of Florida; "Of course, we applaud Apopka (Memorial) Middle School's effort to engage in Civil Rights education with the hope of a tolerance education component in the classroom. That is the mission of The Center to teach tolerance through Civil Rights remembrance and education. However, we do not encourage nor train teachers to engage in simulation exercises."

Guthrie admitted that he would do some things differently in the exercise because of complaints but said some kids got the message, Reznick said.

"They need to know, we don't want history to repeat itself," Guthrie said.

There is no difference with my altered story above..

It teaches nothing... There is no difference between the Holocost and the Civil rights movement in the above teachings...

If they showed the movies and discussed it and then did it, then yes.. but to just treat children poorly with no discussion is lame.

And at no time should you do experiments like that without parental notification. Especially if one or your oppressed students IS Jewish or in my above case Black...

Or am i wrong and the teaching they did that day was totally jewish holocost and couldnt be about civil rights...

[Major Harris]

while i think that exercises like this can be a valuable tool, and i agree with chom's stance on the matter, as a teacher, i can tell you, this isn't the world we live in. kids are coddled today, and hurting their little feelings is unacceptable. states ban friggin' dodgeball for this reason.

a similar exercise was done at our school very recently. however, the teacher had the foresight to send home a notification, and parents could opt to exclude their child from the exercise. does having the choice to participate fully show them the horror of it all? no. but that's our society today.

[oriolesfan93p]

The real proof of this experiment is to see what the children learned. If all they truely got out of it was "I just don't wanna be a jew" then it was moronic, not because of the experiment itself but because they didn't do enough to teach the children what was going on or why, this should have only been half a day and should have been explained for the other half if they were going to do it. That would have ensured that these kids were able to get the message as to what happened and why.

I think its possible that the school planned to do their full explanation the next day, however that is only a guess because it doesn't seem that they did a very good job of explaining why these things were happening to them, and how this was only a little taste of what the jews had to suffer during the reign of Hittler.

If they weren't planning on doing any further explanation the next day then this school will be sued so bad by so many ppl and I have a feeling it will have an entire new staff soon, and deservedly so.

[rictus58]

I wouldn't be surprised if this experience is the closest that a lot of these kids may ever get to feeling like a minority. Granted we've come a long, long way, but I think it's very important, not only from a historical perspective, but from a humanity perspective, to remind ourselves what it was like to have to endure prejudice.

I'm not sure I agree with the method here, but I think the theme is extraordinarily important.

After MLK was assassinated, A teacher undertook the task to teach her 3rd grade students about racism. They lived in a town with NO minorities. Their parents were extremely racist. There was a video made about it called "Eye of the Storm." The parents of the students were outraged. She ended up losing her job, her family had to leave the town, her father lost his business. Years later, the students said the lessons they learned have stayed with them. 30 years later they still remember her lesson.

I highly recommend anyone who disagrees with the lessons these teachers taught, to check it out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Elliott

[Thiebear]

After MLK was assassinated, A teacher undertook the task to teach her 3rd grade students about racism. They lived in a town with NO minorities. Their parents were extremely racist. There was a video made about it called "Eye of the Storm." The parents of the students were outraged. She ended up losing her job, her family had to leave the town, her father lost his business. Years later, the students said the lessons they learned have stayed with them. 30 years later they still remember her lesson.

I highly recommend anyone who disagrees with the lessons these teachers taught, to check it out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Elliott

Notice any differences in the two?

One is pointing out eye color and saying it was superior/the students take on rolls that arnt explained to well in the article vs.

Teachers and Administrators being the Nazi enforcers?

Yeah I know: I'm a big wussy, just trying to figure out what was actually "Taught"...

[codeorama]

I'm sorry. While this may have been a lame experiment for the school to do, this kid is not a little first grader or anything. He is in EIGHTH GRADE.

"Tinnelly said the experiment upset his child. 'He was crying,' Tinnelly said. 'I said, "What are you crying about?" He said, "Daddy, I was a Jew today."' Other parents and children shared similar stories, Tinnelly said. "They were told that they could not use the water fountains," Tinnely said. "There was even a sign supposedly at one water fountain (saying) if you're wearing a yellow star , you can't use this water fountain." Tinnelly said he believes it is important to teach the Holocaust, but apparently little was learned during the experiment. 'I tried to talk to my son and I asked all of these questions and the only thing he said is, 'Daddy, the only thing I found out today is I don't want to be Jewish,'" Tinnelly said."

Mister, it sounds to me like your son is a first class moron, or you are making stuff up so that you can get all aggrieved and sue the school district.

If I was in the 8th grade and I was crying like that, I'd hope my dad would whoop my ass... 3rd grader, I can understand, but 8th grader??

This is nothing more than the parents grandstanding. Kids are alot smarter than the parents give them credit for.

[rictus58]

Notice any differences in the two?

One is pointing out eye color and saying it was superior/the students take on rolls that arnt explained to well in the article vs.

Teachers and Administrators being the Nazi enforcers?

There are no major differences. In both exercises, the students were assigned roles. Based upon their rolls, they were afforded/denied privileges. The teachers and administrators played the exact same role as Ms. Elliott. The only difference is the size and scope of the new experiment.

[tapstaks2000]

After MLK was assassinated, A teacher undertook the task to teach her 3rd grade students about racism. They lived in a town with NO minorities. Their parents were extremely racist. There was a video made about it called "Eye of the Storm." The parents of the students were outraged. She ended up losing her job, her family had to leave the town, her father lost his business. Years later, the students said the lessons they learned have stayed with them. 30 years later they still remember her lesson.

I highly recommend anyone who disagrees with the lessons these teachers taught, to check it out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Elliott

I was thinking about that when I read this.

[Thiebear]

There are no major differences. In both exercises, the students were assigned roles. Based upon their rolls, they were afforded/denied privileges. The teachers and administrators played the exact same role as Ms. Elliott. The only difference is the size and scope of the new experiment.

Guess I have to see the special as the article you linked states the teacher mentioned the blue eyes/ brown eyes and the students in that class did the rest.. Nothing about Teachers/Administrators telling the students what they could or could not do....

[rictus58]

Guess I have to see the special as the article you linked states the teacher mentioned the blue eyes/ brown eyes and the students in that class did the rest.. Nothing about Teachers/Administrators telling the students what they could or could not do....

The teacher let the "good" students have 10 minutes extra recess one day, she let the "good students" drink out of better cups at the water fountain.

She told the "bad students" that they were not as smart. Those students had a drop in test scores on a test they had done well on the week before. It was quite a sobering look as race relations.

[Taylor 36]

When I taught Eighth grade, I had to teach The Diary of Anne Frank and follow an entire Holocaust unit. Students in my class (and a couple of other Eighth grade English teachers' classes) drew a number out of a paper bag during the introductionary lesson of the unit. The one's who selected odd numbers had to wear yellow stars of David for an entire week, for the entire school day. A list was sent out, and any student not caught not wearing their star at anytime during the school day lost points off of their grade. Halfway through the unit, all of the students who had drawn even numbers had to wear the stars.

It was a very effective means of making several points, and many studemts admitted to having a better understanding of how it would feel to be "marked" and discriminated against due to that mark.

It is sad that any parent would not see the life-long lesson that was being implemented here. The kid being so upset (if he really was) would have been a great opportunity for the parents to sit down with their child and reinforce how he should not treat people; how poor treatment to others make them feel.

[chomerics]

Notice any differences in the two?

One is pointing out eye color and saying it was superior/the students take on rolls that arnt explained to well in the article vs.

Teachers and Administrators being the Nazi enforcers?

Here bear, see the frontline story. . .

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/divided/

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/divided/etc/view.html

There is a VALUABLE lesson to all the children who were part of this teaching method, as it delves into basic human behavior and empathy.

You chould also check out this documentary on prison treatment and detainees at Stanford, and the psychological impact of being inferior, or treated as such. . .

http://www.prisonexp.org/

These are ALL lessons EVERY child should have, and I think it is a great thing that schools are actually taking the initiative to teach for once. It is a shame that overprotective parents want to shelter their kids from reality, because it allows children to grow up without understanding how things like racism and hatred are ingrained in every human being. Not through anything other then an evolution mechanism in our brain which wants to place us at the top of the heap. When confronted with this option, many people will just accept the fact that they are on the top without questioning the reasons behind the process or methodology that placed them there. This quote is very fitting, and it should strike home when looking at things like racism, and how society accepts it becuase of the need to feel superior. . .

First They Came for the Jews

First they came for the Jews

and I did not speak out

because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists

and I did not speak out

because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists

and I did not speak out

because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me

and there was no one left

to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemöller

[codeorama]

When I taught Eighth grade, I had to teach The Diary of Anne Frank and follow an entire Holocaust unit. Students in my class (and a couple of other Eighth grade English teachers' classes) drew a number out of a paper bag during the introductionary lesson of the unit. The one's who selected odd numbers had to wear yellow stars of David for an entire week, for the entire school day. A list was sent out, and any student not caught not wearing their star at anytime during the school day lost points off of their grade. Halfway through the unit, all of the students who had drawn even numbers had to wear the stars.

It was a very effective means of making several points, and many studemts admitted to having a better understanding of how it would feel to be "marked" and discriminated against due to that mark.

It is sad that any parent would not see the life-long lesson that was being implemented here. The kid being so upset (if he really was) would have been a great opportunity for the parents to sit down with their child and reinforce how he should not treat people; how poor treatment to others make them feel.

The good part of your example is how they switched and got to experience both sides.

[rictus58]

The good part of your example is how they switched and got to experience both sides.

The original article did not mention if they switched roles or not, which leads me to believe they did not. I think it would have been more helpful to the student if they had.

[Guest Gichin13]

After MLK was assassinated, A teacher undertook the task to teach her 3rd grade students about racism. They lived in a town with NO minorities. Their parents were extremely racist. There was a video made about it called "Eye of the Storm." The parents of the students were outraged. She ended up losing her job, her family had to leave the town, her father lost his business. Years later, the students said the lessons they learned have stayed with them. 30 years later they still remember her lesson.

I highly recommend anyone who disagrees with the lessons these teachers taught, to check it out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Elliott

great link, thanks!

[codeorama]

The original article did not mention if they switched roles or not, which leads me to believe they did not. I think it would have been more helpful to the student if they had.

That was the first thing I thought as well.

[MissU28]

Yea, teaching our kids reality really sucks huh. If they think their kids were ridiculed, how do they think Anne Frank felt?

I actually think it is a brilliant method of teaching, and they should switch the sides so EVERYONE knows what it feels like, not just have 1/2 the kids wear stars for a week, and that's it, but put stars on the other kids and let them know what it feels like.

Reality, maybe we should try exposing our kids to what our history is all about, maybe that is the best way NOT to repeat it

:2cents:

i agree. Simulations are a fantastic way of teaching kids. I don't think the experiment is lame at all. If the kids don't like how they are treated, it will teach them not to act that way towards others in the future. The reason we study history is to learn from our mistakes and to not let them happen again...this experiment put kids in the shoes of the Jewish people during the Holocaust....of course they'll be upset about it. And the fact that the kid was crying DID teach him something- he didn't want to be Jewish. That could spark a debate the next day when the teacher comes back to reflect on the experience with the class- such as, if you were Jewish during the Holocaust, would you try and hide the fact so you wouldn't be persecuted? Would you change religions?

And I agree that the kid was acting like a big baby. Parents need to teach their kids that they can't always get what they want and they WON'T always get what they want. The sooner that happens, the sooner kids will accept reality.

[Kilmer17]

Yea, teaching our kids reality really sucks huh. If they think their kids were ridiculed, how do they think Anne Frank felt?

I actually think it is a brilliant method of teaching, and they should switch the sides so EVERYONE knows what it feels like, not just have 1/2 the kids wear stars for a week, and that's it, but put stars on the other kids and let them know what it feels like.

Reality, maybe we should try exposing our kids to what our history is all about, maybe that is the best way NOT to repeat it

:2cents:

G@DAMMIT.

I hate starting out a friday agreeing with chom.

[Thiebear]

Here bear, see the frontline story. . .

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/divided/

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/divided/etc/view.html

I stand corrected: I've only seen the 1st two of the 3 (Im at work) but so far its seems the same)....

[chomerics]

The original article did not mention if they switched roles or not, which leads me to believe they did not. I think it would have been more helpful to the student if they had.

I think I put that in my first comment, and I completely agree. If they only allow one side to be the opressors, the absolute wrong message can be learned. . . I bet they had a second part to the lesson, which was to switch sides but the contorversy stopped the lesson. . .but who knows.

[chomerics]

G@DAMMIT.

I hate starting out a friday agreeing with chom.

Like I said before Kilmer, we've been agreeing far to frequently lately :laugh:

BTW, Bush sux. . . that better?

[redskins4life234]

When I taught Eighth grade, I had to teach The Diary of Anne Frank and follow an entire Holocaust unit. Students in my class (and a couple of other Eighth grade English teachers' classes) drew a number out of a paper bag during the introductionary lesson of the unit. The one's who selected odd numbers had to wear yellow stars of David for an entire week, for the entire school day. A list was sent out, and any student not caught not wearing their star at anytime during the school day lost points off of their grade. Halfway through the unit, all of the students who had drawn even numbers had to wear the stars.

It was a very effective means of making several points, and many studemts admitted to having a better understanding of how it would feel to be "marked" and discriminated against due to that mark.

It is sad that any parent would not see the life-long lesson that was being implemented here. The kid being so upset (if he really was) would have been a great opportunity for the parents to sit down with their child and reinforce how he should not treat people; how poor treatment to others make them feel.

I like this idea alot more then the one the article says. As this one form my understanding, you switche dit up and all they had to do was wear the stars. Other then that, everything else was the same as normal. In the one in the article, there were privileges and non. People could do somethings and others were bossed around by teachers and made them feel inferior and others things. It was too harsh, but your was fine.

[Thiebear]

After watching the pbs series I hope channel 6 butchered what they did and they did it as well as the teacher in the video...

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I think the kids are old enough to go through an exercise like this, understand the lesson, and realize it's ONLY A LESSON. Any kid who cries over this has additional issues that aren't the teacher's fault.

I commend the original idea.

[PleaseBlitz]

I wouldn't be surprised if this experience is the closest that a lot of these kids may ever get to feeling like a minority. Granted we've come a long, long way, but I think it's very important, not only from a historical perspective, but from a humanity perspective, to remind ourselves what it was like to have to endure prejudice.

I'm not sure I agree with the method here, but I think the theme is extraordinarily important.

Im with IHeart. Not only does it teach them what happened, it teaches kids what it feels like to be on the wrong end of this kind of treatment. Hopefully it will teach them to respect everyone equally. Hard lessons are the best lessons.

Another point i would like to raise. When can we divide the schools up into PC and Non-PC? Anyone who wants their kids to go to the Non-PC signs a waiver saying they will never sue or complain, they get the itinerary up front, and their kids get to do stuff like this, play dodgeball, use the words "under God" in the Pledge, and the teachers are free to give the kids a good education without the handcuffs. Ill sign the waiver right now.