Wise - After a Shove, a Fall From Grace (Lavar Shouting Match w/Coach after Sat game)

[Bizkiteer]

funny...the story to me is what other players are missing assignments and are they receiving similar treatment from a coach protecting his Chitown has beens....all other players are faultless....uh huh.......LA has not covered himself with glory...but there is always TWO SIDES to every story.

let's see how things are starting to shape up for next year:

- lose GW

- lose LA and bring in that well known superstar Holdman who didn't appear to receive similar treatment for his sorry play early in the season

- no first round draft pick with the early select standing on the sidelines for another year of grooming

- cap hit from LA's departure

- LA to an NFC East team (seems to be the pattern for disgruntled Skins players in recent years)

...this has been well handled by all sides!

LA.....you're playin hard but the man pays the bills (as Snoop would say). Just STFU and get out of town to the Boys or some other NFC East to take your revenge downstream. now is not the time to be disruptive. Dale...thanks for being as FU'd as LA. Are there any *amn adults on this team?

Well said...now that I'm drepressed...I'm gonna call it a day and go back to bed. Thanks!!!

[fansince62]

"Maybe I am a little biased, but throughout the whole thing I think Lavar was the one treated unfairly. He's been in football all his life and been yelled at numourous times I'm sure. As the article states, it got out of control in the locker room and I am sure the same happened on the phone. Afterwhile people get tired of listening if all you are doing is yelling and telling them how bad they are. I would have hung up the phone too."

leadership lesson 101.

this is probably a mutual thing. the defensive coaches are strong arming the players (GW is known to be an unrelenting hardarse) and LA is becomng a whiny distraction. there may be a dynamic in play that is going to follow its destructive course unless someone very senior steps in and stops it cold with some sort of bold leadership move.

makes one wonder whether, in the long run, GW can survive as a head coach. unknown at this point.

[ntotoro]

The truth in the whole matter is somewhere in the middle with BOTH Lavar and the Organization having fault in all the distractions.

Ask yourself one question:

Why does this seem to only keep plaguing LaVar?

Common sense will tell you he's the denominator in all these issues. The 'Skins haven't been the ones bellyaching to the public about it.

[ntotoro]

Nope because unlike the Jets in handling the Abraham..we are stupid and show our hand. Everyone knows we don't want him, kind like Ramsey...everyone knows he's not our starter.

Not necessarily. The 'Skins don't have to get rid of either player. Getting rid of LaVar before 6/1 only saves $1m on the cap. Getting rid of Ramsy means we lose a good, cheap backup QB and have to bring in someone else. Neither player absolutely has to go if the deal doesn't come along.

People knew we were shopping Coles. I'd say we got something pretty good in-return.

[Bizkiteer]

Ask yourself one question:

Why does this seem to only keep plaguing LaVar?

Common sense will tell you he's the denominator in all these issues. The 'Skins haven't been the ones bellyaching to the public about it.

Anytime you have an owner who told a player that he would watch the season on a big screen TV (Danny to Coles), you have to realize that this is not normal situation. It is understood that Danny has dropped him as his boy after the contract situation, so it started from there.

Again, Lavar is at fault too...it takes two and that is why it keeps going back and forth between the two.

[gortiz]

Well said...now that I'm drepressed...I'm gonna call it a day and go back to bed. Thanks!!!

Don't be depressed, if we have learned one thing about the Skins is that come off season, we like to stir the s***

i.e. bringing portis, moss, hiring gibbs.

We were getting free agents and attracting people here with just money, now we got a winning record, presitge and talent on top of $$ ... things are looking up.

[fansince62]

LA isn't the only one. The Skins have had these problems for years now. Oned can concede all the nuanced objections about non-team players, selfishness, etc. but the fcat remains that the team has been plagued by these problems for years. at some point one has to admit that this has two sides.

LA will be banished by whatever means next season and we will see whetehr the team has enough momentum and personnel smarts to move to the next level. either way - I'm sick of whiny players and I'm tired of a personnel/management/coaching staff that can't handle its problem children. it stinks all around.

[ntotoro]

Anytime you have an owner who told a player that he would watch the season on a big screen TV (Danny to Coles), you have to realize that this is not normal situation. It is understood that Danny has dropped him as his boy after the contract situation, so it started from there.

Again, Lavar is at fault too...it takes two and that is why it keeps going back and forth between the two.

You keep saying Danny this, Danny that... what proof do you have that he has any hand in the LaVar situation at all? Why does there have to be a share of the blame? No one anywhere has implied any such thing.

[KingGibbs]

For eveyone who now sees the light, please understand that most of us who've been complaining about LA ARE TRUE SKINS FANS......Most of us take the position of being fans of the Skins not fans of the player. We are fans of the player only to the extent that the player HELPS the team. Once a player, or anyone for that matter (including ownership), hurts the team then we have a problem with that person. most of us ere getting upset with him b/c as true fans we could see that the path he was on was very bad for the team.

Anyone whose been on any type of championship caliber team knows that team chemistry is as importance as performance. And knows that dirty laundry stays in-house. A team can be good with performance alone but it cannot turn the corner w/o chemistry. So the main gripe against LA was that he is disruptive to team chemistry. His performance lately was not all that, but that can be forgiven, provided he shows leadership. Instead he ****es and moans to the public, trying to get the public to turn on the Skins and that AINT GONNA WORK WITH ME. I was a Skins fan long b4 Lavar and will be one long after.

He needs to take a lesson from one of our greatest leaders, Monte Coleman. He bled burgandy and gold. I've seen him actually cry when we lost games as he lived and died with the team. Yet he was not a starter. He could've left the Skins and started at outside linebacker for several teams, yet he NEVER complained to the public. He played special teams, filled in at LB when there was an injury and always fought his guts out.

LA could also take a lesson from Portis. CP could've complained more about our style of running but instead he shut his mouth, made it to all the off-season workouts, gained some weight and is part of the SOLUTION.

Lastly, how many times has it been now that Gibbs has had to meet w/ LA? For those that know Gibbs, how many players do you recall sticking around when Gibbs had to meet w/ them regularly? One might think of DM but remember 2 things: 1.) we couldn't win regularly w/o DM and 2.) DM usually got in trouble for some kind of off field antic (which i'm sure most players shook their heads and laughed at) as opposed to bad mouthing managment and complaining to the media about his employer.

Oh, so now that people have a particular player that they like they aren't "TRUE FANS"? I don't know you and you don't know me. Ask the people on this site that do actually know me if I am a "TRUE" fan even though I have been a big fan of Lavar.

Anyway, Lavar has left a sour taste in my mouth with this latest episode, but he is still a Redskin and he still capable of having a big impact on defense. :2cents:

[Bizkiteer]

Not necessarily. The 'Skins don't have to get rid of either player. Getting rid of LaVar before 6/1 only saves $1m on the cap. Getting rid of Ramsy means we lose a good, cheap backup QB and have to bring in someone else. Neither player absolutely has to go if the deal doesn't come along.

People knew we were shopping Coles. I'd say we got something pretty good in-return.

We got real good value as it turns out in Santana Moss. GB that!!! As it turns out, I think we should trade for players from the U everytime since it seems to work for us.

My point was just in when trying to make a trade, value carries farther when team's don't know that you have de-valued your player or are not no longer need of their services (Like R. Gardner last year). Not saying we have to trade Ramsey, just we coudl have gotten more for him before he was made 2nd string.

[Burgold]

You know what this thread reminded me about? Gibbs first being hired. Washington was all excited. Everyone was feeling good. Someone asked Lavar his opinion and he expressed doubt and ambivalence. Perhaps it was Lavar who made his mind about this coaching staff before they arrived. He's seen them come and go and he's always been the man. Remember those first interviews.

In this article, what really bugged me is that as a critical example they chose to bring up a Wizards game FROM LAST YEAR! How he was booed. How the securtiy disrespected him and didn't let him in the Wiz locker room so he could get his balls signed. As Portis said yesterday, "this isn't the NBA"

As I recall last year he was the starter before he got hurt, then they really performed well without him. Pierce and Marshall surfaced for this team. Undrafted bums no one wanted. Lindsey obviously has some skill. Williams schemes worked. We haven't heard Lindsey, et al. go out of house. Lavar does that to himself.

This is the week to be unselfless to really get yourself geared up for the biggest game of the season. Very disappointed that he couldn't do that.

As for the comment that two guys defended Lavar. Didn't 19 Eagles go to TO's birthday party?

[FightForOldDC21]

whatever is up with lavar needs to stop

hes my boy and he has to stay

[GhostRider]

You know what this thread reminded me about? Gibbs first being hired. Washington was all excited. Everyone was feeling good. Someone asked Lavar his opinion and he expressed doubt and ambivalence. Perhaps it was Lavar who made his mind about this coaching staff before they arrived. He's seen them come and go and he's always been the man. Remember those first interviews.

That pissed me off, Lavar can't stand not being the center of attention. Luckily for him he has a legion of younger fans who think he's LT re-incarnate.

[Bizkiteer]

You keep saying Danny this, Danny that... what proof do you have that he has any hand in the LaVar situation at all? Why does there have to be a share of the blame? No one anywhere has implied any such thing.

Did you just read the article that was linked in this thread? Here I'll quote the second page of the article for you...

He won't say who, but we already know where and with whom the enmity began. Snyder, the team owner who made him fabulously rich and befriended his charismatic, handsome linebacking star, dumped him quicker than AOL stock. From the moment Arrington filed a contract grievance in March 2004, contending the team omitted $6.5 million in bonus money agreed upon for the 2006 season, he was shuttled out of Snyder's suite and sent to the doghouse. The Redskins said they did not owe Arrington the money, and the linebacker eventually dropped the arbitration case.

But with Snyder no longer in his corner, it became open season on Arrington for the coaching staff.

This kind of stuff is published consistanly and is known publicly. Are you really hearing this for the very first time now???

[ntotoro]

This kind of stuff is published consistanly and is known publicly. Are you really hearing this for the very first time now???

This isn't anything quoted from Snyder or even from anyone with inside knowledge of Redskin Park. When was the last time Wise (or any of these guys) was ever there?

LaVar, on the other hand, gives us soundbytes on an almost daily basis. If Snyder hated the guy so much, he wouldn't have made him the most overpaid OLB in the NFL.

[Mufumonk]

Yes. We have been better without LaVar.

We are noticeably worse with Cornelius Griffen off the feild. LaVar? Np difference at all. He has haf 2 years to 'get it'. He hasn't. Case closed.

Did you completely ignore the games in which LaVar didn't start? Teams aggressively attacked the weak side of the field when Holdman was the starter. And we took it on the chin for some pretty big plays because of his inability to shed blocks. But I forgot, LaVar is the sole reason we've sucked for the duration of his time here. It had nothing to do with the constant merry-go-round of coaches and schemes and constant gutting of the roster.

[Fred Jones]

The author, UnWise Mike, paints a certain picture of the situation from his point of view. Of course some of it is accurate and some of it is opinion. The Lavar situation has been talked about many times on this board including this thread.

One thing I found interesting. Enough has been written about Snyder from various sources to give one the impression that he is what I would call a d**k. I could not think of any other appropriate word to describe the owner. If he likes you than everything is great. If he does not than his lack of professionalism takes over. The owner should be held to a higher standard. Just look how Gibbs treats people he does not like. He still treats them with respect. He gets rid of them, but he keeps his mouth shut and does not openly disrespect them.

[Burgold]

Okay, let me get this straight. Lavar calls Danny a thief, liar, and a crook. Sues him. Goes to the press and tells everyone that Snyder is all of above and you don't think it would impact their personal relationship? How would you react if you chose him over Champ to receive the big salary, treated the guy like family, then he goes shouting to everyone that you're a louse, a thief, and a cheat. Wouldn't that impact how you felt about the guy personally.

As far as if that impacted how he was treated on the field I don't know, but it was the beginning of strained feelings between some fans and Lavar.

[Mufumonk]

You have to know him personally to hold the position that he's got an ego? That this ego has led him to butt heads with coaches, from Schottenheimer to Marvin Lewis to Williams and Lindsey? Don't you remember how LaVar didn't want to play from the End position, didn't want to play with his hand on the ground, but then proceeded to have his best pro season doing just that on half the snaps?

Please. Even LaVar's most loyal defenders will admit that he's got an ego, and that this has led to his getting into scraps with coaches.

If memory serves me right the reason he didn't want to play as a down lineman is because he was playing with TWO broken hands.

[simon_sc]

I can't figure out who is right and who is wrong in this situation, but it just plain sucks. I've enjoyed watching LA with the team -- his heart and passion are out there for everyone to see, and it *seems* like he was all set to have a good long career here.

But at this point, barring some sort of turnaround in the player/team relationship, I hope he goes somewhere next year where he can tear $*@% up. I know I'd keep an eye on him just to see some of those explosive plays he can create.

Hell, send him to Detroit for Charles Rogers or something.

Anyway, at least we have a guy like Sean Taylor who brings that same level of excitement and anticipation to the game. Who is he going to blow up next?!?!

[Bizkiteer]

This isn't anything quoted from Snyder or even from anyone with inside knowledge of Redskin Park. When was the last time Wise (or any of these guys) was ever there?

LaVar, on the other hand, gives us soundbytes on an almost daily basis. If Snyder hated the guy so much, he wouldn't have made him the most overpaid OLB in the NFL.

Remeber Lavar was his boy until that contract dispute. He made him the richest LB, but when the dispute of missing money came out....then supposedly Danny fell out of love w/ him. Also, Dan stopped talking to the press after being misquoted a few times. If I recall it was the Post that he had the problem with at the time.

[fansince62]

"Did you completely ignore the games in which LaVar didn't start? Teams aggressively attacked the weak side of the field when Holdman was the starter. And we took it on the chin for some pretty big plays because of his inability to shed blocks. But I forgot, LaVar is the sole reason we've sucked for the duration of his time here. It had nothing to do with the constant merry-go-round of coaches and schemes and constant gutting of the roster."

hey man...don't let the facts get in the way of emotions!

[SlobberKnockinFootball]

Why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't it be both?

Why can't we field a good competitive team and not treat LaVar like garbage?

What people seem to gloss over is that in the shouting match it was the prick Dale Lindsey who went over board and got personal much more so than LaVar. Seems to me, those in the lockerroom who witnessed it were sympathetic to LaVar and felt that once again members of this defensive staff are riding way more than needed.

At this point I'm tired and disgusted with the whole thing. I wish LaVar the best in whatever he desides to do after the season and I realize now that it will most likely not be playing for the Redskins.

I will remain a Redskin fan first and foremost and root for the team as much as I ever did. This of course won't change the fact that we have a bunch of serious pricks and a-holes on the defensive staff.

:eaglesuck

But have you noticed that it's only Arrington having a problem with the coaching staff. All the other LB's seem to have nothing but praise for Lindsay and GW. It's the only dude witha "Me First" attitude that is having issues.

[EnFoRcEr_uPu]

My thought on the issue...

Lavar will overcome it all with the help of Gibbs and Williams and when he comes back next year can spit in the face of these a-holes that keep bashing on him.

[EnFoRcEr_uPu]

It's funny though...I wouldn't put it past NFL officials to pay the papers to write these things. I mean think about it, they've already started selling Giants NFC East Champions shirts. Wouldn't they WANT them to win?