Wise - After a Shove, a Fall From Grace (Lavar Shouting Match w/Coach after Sat game)

[FloridaSkinsFan2]

I cany beleive the skins fans are all over Arrington like this....The guy can play ball and wants nothing more but to play and play well..We are all humans and make mistakes and Im sure he does miss assignments from time to time...Im sure others do as well. I saw a few here call LA a crybaby and what not..

"It ended with Arrington telling Lindsey to "Back off!" and "Treat me like a man!" According to two persons privy to the altercation, the coach went a tad more overboard than the player.

"I was thinking, 'Enough already,' " said one player, on condition of anonymity. "Let LaVar be."

It sounds and looks to me that Coach Lindsey got personal and disrespectful..How is saying "treat me like a man" crying? Wouldnt you want to be treated with respect and talked to like a man or human?? Hell, another player is quoted as saying ""I was thinking, 'Enough already,' " "Let LaVar be."...What does these tell you?

LA is a great ball player and deserves some respect, not only from the coaches but the fans..

We all hear about LA missing assignment from the coaching staff and other on the board, but you never hear the coaches talk about "other" players missing assignments

If LA was the only one missing assignment im sure we would have won the division, had a 1st round bye and home field advantage throughout, but we dont. What does this say? LA is not the only one missing assignments

BIG Skins fan in Florida

just my .02 worth

[Dirk Diggler]

unless...of course....someone did pull a fast one. that is an action independent of agent incompetence.

Makes perfect sense. The Redskins, who have been accused of overpaying for every free agent and coach they've ever signed, suddenly become sheisty and "pull a fast one." An owner who spares no expense for anything burgundy and gold figures he can rob the so-called face of the franchise and most marketable player.

The only person who has committed theft is Lavar Arrington. No defensive player in the league has pocketed more bucks than Lavar Arrington since 2000 despite inconsistent results on the field. He's the biggest scam artist of them all.

[TODD]

For what it's worth, here's a response I gave my brother-in-law when he wrote this on our fantasy b-ball board.

"While the articles may not be well-timed for the Skins, it may just be that the journalists in question may be more worried about presenting news and stories as opposed to worrying about how it might affect the team. It isn't exactly the papers' jobs to present the Skins a certain way."

In regard to the Times, there was no news... they MADE the news by asking the incriminating questions and releasing the article at a time when they could've released it at the end of the season just as well as the ill-time that they did. They wrote that article with the sole purpose of creating controversy... controversy that likely violates any etiquette that a local paper has for the home team.

I guarantee this crap doesn't happen in Green Bay, Kansas City, Indianapolis, etc. etc.

And how obvious is it that these papers always seem to have a score to settle with the Skins. See: Sally Jenkins, Nunyo's innumerable errors (http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96374) and the subsequent and deserved bad-mouthing the Skins would present in response, the latest Wise article, Gibbs calling out the Post in the offseason).

You're right, Mike, in that it isn't their job to present the Skins a way. However, I don't think that is the point. They should be supportive of a Washington team and not beating a dead-horse, that being LaVar. The Times had exactly three LaVar quotes and warped them into a speculation orgy.

I will give Wise's article this: it was news that LaVar had these verbal altercations. And I'm not defending LaVar any more after reading Wise's article because it was eye-opening. BUT, the same shock value could have been released at season's end and Skins fans wouldn't have to feel negatively about one of our starters while we are still in season. That is the problem I have.

[IrepDC]

Since when did Lindsey become LaVars boss? With that rational Bill Lazor is LaVars boss too. Cummon. They are co-workers, working together on a TEAM. Joe Gibbs is his boss, Dan Snyder is his boss. Dale Lindsey isn't his boss. How many bosses make 12 million dollars less per year than their "subordinates."

Don't be so quick to base authority on money. LaVar is probably the second highest paid individual in this entire organization next to Snyder. That doesn't put him above Gibbs or any of his coaching staff. Lindsey is one of Gibbs assistants, the players should view him as an extention of Gibbs that overlooks a certain position. That position is LB. So, for LaVar to disrespect Lindsey(his supervisor) is to disrespect Gibbs, who chose Lindsey to overlook the LB's. If the LB's aren't performing up to par, Lindsey is held accountable, therefore, he is obviously above LaVar. And thus, he may not be LaVars "boss" but he IS his coach. This enigma is known as American Football.

[TODD]

I cany beleive the skins fans are all over Arrington like this....The guy can play ball and wants nothing more but to play and play well..We are all humans and make mistakes and Im sure he does miss assignments from time to time...Im sure others do as well. I saw a few here call LA a crybaby and what not..

"It ended with Arrington telling Lindsey to "Back off!" and "Treat me like a man!" According to two persons privy to the altercation, the coach went a tad more overboard than the player.

"I was thinking, 'Enough already,' " said one player, on condition of anonymity. "Let LaVar be."

It sounds and looks to me that Coach Lindsey got personal and disrespectful..How is saying "treat me like a man" crying? Wouldnt you want to be treated with respect and talked to like a man or human?? Hell, another player is quoted as saying ""I was thinking, 'Enough already,' " "Let LaVar be."...What does these tell you?

LA is a great ball player and deserves some respect, not only from the coaches but the fans..

We all hear about LA missing assignment from the coaching staff and other on the board, but you never hear the coaches talk about "other" players missing assignments

If LA was the only one missing assignment im sure we would have won the division, had a 1st round bye and home field advantage throughout, but we dont. What does this say? LA is not the only one missing assignments

BIG Skins fan in Florida

just my .02 worth

But look at all the news that has come out of LaVar this season-- all negative. He's played some good ball in '05, but like other past Redskins, he's not gonna work after this year. The drama is exceeding his play... and I wouldn't have said that until today's article.

[DaSkinzBaby]

ALL of you Lavar lovers can take your homer garbage with him when he gets traded to Cleveland. You won't be missed by me since you aren't Redskins fans. Take your Lavar jersies, topps trading cards, your Lavar knicknacks and any other Lavar bilge you have with you.

It is amazing to me how you people defend his actions time and time again when he has DONE ABSOLUTELY FREAKING NOTHING for this franchise since he came here.

It is ALWAYS someone else's fault with Lavar.

Let me say it again: Isn't it funny we have had our 2 best Defensive years in recent history with Mr. "Can't Get Right" on the sideline?

I don't. I think it is quite telling just like in a Shakespearean play and we all know how those end.

So going to the probowl isn't doing something for this organization? restructuring your contract to provide relief is nothing? How many times have you restructured your salary for your company? When this team was lousy it was LaVar that people tuned into IMHO the hits on Aikman, Emmitt, Vick or the interception run back for a TD that brought the team back against the Panthers and turned the season around. That is nothing! What about the game he hit someone so hard he gave himself a concussion and Sam Huff praised his desire that too is nothing. Remember one thing! No NFL contract is etched in stone and these men are 1 hit away from injury and they have a right to get as much money as they can. Remember the Redskins are the #1 money making team in the NFL. So in no way is LaVar a saint but don't ever try to insult my intelligence about what HE AND HE ALONE did for this organization when no one else on the roster was even fit to sniff his jock strap. :2cents:

[IrepDC]

I believe some of LaVars teammates were quoted as saying "Enought already, let him(LaVar) be"

I have seen those quotes used used throughout this thread to prove that LaVars teammates are behind him.

Not necessarily, we don't know the tone of those comments. On one hand, the players could be saying get off LaVars back he doesn't deserve this, OR, the players could be saying don't bother waisting your time with LaVar he aint gonna listen.

How those words WERE said, we don't know. My point is, anyone can twist the quotes to sound a certain way.

I would say that LaVar's quotes could also be misquotes, but, hey then we wouldn't have anything to debate would we.

[ThaGibbskin]

People, lets not forget that Wise hates the redskins and always comes out with these skins bashing articles RIGHT before our big games. I hate him and really dont believe most of the BS he writes.

[jimster]

I totally agree- as soon as a player has an argument with management or leaves because of business reasons we all turn on him. To tell you the truth I still love Smoot and Pierce. When teams cut players that have given there all to an organization- where is the outrage???

outrage? at the organization? Both players left for a small amount of money. - All teams have to work within the confines of the salary cap. It would be irresponsible to pay every player whatever they want. - You're mad at the wrong people.

[TD Riggo]

i think he prefers the player who dont run his mouth 24/7/365 and cause problems :applause: :helmet: :applause:

You mean the player who was released from Cleveland, is lucky to still have a job in the NFL, and who really doesn't have ANY reason to talk to the Press?!

[TODD]

People, lets not forget that Wise hates the redskins and always comes out with these skins bashing articles RIGHT before our big games. I hate him and really dont believe most of the BS he writes.

Examples?

[Bizkiteer]

Tell you what. If one of my subordinates hangs up on me when I'm correcting an error he's making, you can be sure I'll make sure HE and everyone in the organization knows that's not going to happen again. Because to treat him like a man means I expect him not to hang up on my calls, regardless of what I'm saying. Else, he's not a man at all.

You know that is not right Art because in any professional business a supervisor CAN NOT treat an employee however he or she chooses. You are not allowed to curse at employees, harass and so forth. I hope your Manager doesn't take the same approach with you because if they do...you should leave the company as fast as possible. Also, I didn't know that holding on to a phone call while being put down made a boy a man. You sense the sarcasm there? Just making a point, step back a bit and don't get so emotional.

[jimster]

I dont care if we win the Super Bowl. The truth on the Lavar situation is something everyone on this board will never know. Snyder had killed his career here for obvious reasons. He will be cut and go somewhere and everyone here will say he sucks and he will continue to go to pro bowls like champ. Its funny how people on this board are can turn on players so quickly after gushing about them earlier.

Snyder killed his career? Have you not been hearing about every time something doesn't go Lavar's way, he is pointing the finger at someone else? - All Snyder did is give him a huge pay-day and the coaches now expect him to earn it.

[CrazyZeb]

Snyder killed his career? Have you not been hearing about every time something doesn't go Lavar's way, he is pointing the finger at someone else? - All Snyder did is give him a huge pay-day and the coaches now expect him to earn it.

I think Snyder must have sent Jeff Gillooly to take out his knee!

[TD Riggo]

We all hear about LA missing assignment from the coaching staff and other on the board, but you never hear the coaches talk about "other" players missing assignments

If LA was the only one missing assignment im sure we would have won the division, had a 1st round bye and home field advantage throughout, but we dont. What does this say? LA is not the only one missing assignments

BIG Skins fan in Florida

just my .02 worth

From another lifelong Skins fan in Florida ..

Let's also not forget that Lindsey has had a chip on his shoulder against LA since he got here. He wanted his boy Holdman, he got him, and now he's trying to stir up crap about LA. The player comment regarding "Enough already," is telling enough. Lindsey lost the first series earlier in the season when the fans showed their love for Lavar and forced their hand.

Should Lavar have hung up the phone on a coach. No. However, I've smelled something wrong since the beginning of the season with Arrington-gate Part Uno. We were not privvy to the potential abuse that the player-shoving, self-described ******* coach was spewing on the phone to a player. Earlier I was somewhat joking about "cut[ting] Lindsey." However, the more I think about it, if Lindsey shoved his player for WHATEVER reason, I think the hothead should be fired. He's even admitted that he's a jerk. If all of this is true, it should be the coach who is outta here before next season! Gibbs is too good of a man to allow a self-admitted jerk of a coach to be part of his team! IMO, you can look no farther than Lindsey to see who has been the instigator of all of the Arrington nonsense.

Now .. let's win in Philthy!

[jimster]

Examples?

one small example of his spin is he states in the article that Lavar dropped the arbritration. - uh, no he didn't. - If the teams' intent all along was to get rid of Lavar, then why did we throw Lavar a bone and agree to keep him and not ask to have the new contract voided, making him tradable?

...why wasn't that mentioned? - Because it would make the team look like they were being amicable and that would go against eveything the Post believes in.

[ouvan59]

The fact that he invited a reporter TO HIS HOME to vent against the coaches and organization says all that needs to be said. And then to read this Wise editorial......it's just too much. I don't blame the Post or the Times. I blame Lavar.

Someone mentioned this yesterday but my guess is that Lavar didn't invite Elgin into his home to vent about the Skins. But it is a reporters job to get a story and I'm certain that 99.9999% of what Lavar talked about was the kind of positive stuff you hear on the John Thompson Show each week.

That is what Lavar is probably talking about when he says the comments were taken out of context. I guarantee that Lavar mentioned about 10 times in the interview that he is just happy to be back playing and that he is totally focused on Philly and he really wants to help the team.

At some point however Elgin baited him with a comment about the offseason and in trying to sound like the good soldier he said that he would rather retire than go to another team and gave Elgin the opening he was probably hoping for the whole time. The portion of the interview that Elgin focused on probably took up about 20 seconds of the hour that he was there.

Now that being WTF is Lavar thinking granting the interview in the 1st place during the biggest week of his pro football career? He is either on of two thing, incredibly stupid or a complete narcissist.

Now on to the UnWise Mike article. You can't condemn Lavar for this article because it wasn't his doing that it came out. Wise was just going with the old adage "Good news is bad news" for the print and radio industry. Everything has been going too well for the Skins and the media is trying to stir the pot to make their jobs more interesting. The Post has written way too many fluff pieces lately and needed to spice things up. Unfortunately the fluff pieces were about Tom Coughlin and Bill Parcells.

But the article itself did bring up some extremely worrisome issues if everything reported is factual.

It is clear that the whole "Lavar is finally buying into the system" is a fallacy. There is zero chance that he is here next year. There are obviously two very distinct schools on this much like in politics. Once school defends Lavar no matter what while the other is ready to cast him into the abyss.

Much like politics I fall somewhere in the middle. I want Lavar to be a Redskin for life but not on his terms. I like Lavar and he seems like a nice guy but from all evidence I like and trust this coaching staff more. Too many coaches have said the same things. Should Dale Lindsay have publicly berated him? Probably not but nobody here has any idea how the situation played out. What mistakes were made and are they mistakes he has made many times before? Lavar wants to be treated like a man and then acts like a little baby when he gets yelled at. Do you really think that Lindsay was yelling at him because he was doing his job correctly?

People also keep equating this situation to situations they have had in their lives. Guess what? The NFL is not like your life. The stakes of what they do on Sunday is huge and you can't equate it to the time you forgot to attach the TPS cover page to your fax. You can undo most of the mistakes in your job with a phone call or an email. You can't undo giving up a touchdown.

Lastly for all the people talking about how much better the team is with Lavar in there please explain this:

Redskins with Lavar playing extended minutes: 4-4 20.9 ppg allowed

Redskins without Lavar playing extended minutes: 5-2 15.1 ppg allowed

And before you credit the Skins record with him to the offensive production we have averaged 24.1 with him in the lineup while only 19.3 with him out of the lineup.

[MartinC]

That's because we didn't know what assignments he missed. He very well could have blitzed when he was in a flats zone. We don't know. Then again, we also don't know if he actually did miss assignments...

I guess we will probably never REALLY know - but it does not come as a surprise that Arrington missed assignments.If he will not run the play called sit him and then either trade him or cut him. Period.

[Bizkiteer]

Someone mentioned this yesterday but my guess is that Lavar didn't invite Elgin into his home to vent about the Skins. But it is a reporters job to get a story and I'm certain that 99.9999% of what Lavar talked about was the kind of positive stuff you hear on the John Thompson Show each week.

That is what Lavar is probably talking about when he says the comments were taken out of context. I guarantee that Lavar mentioned about 10 times in the interview that he is just happy to be back playing and that he is totally focused on Philly and he really wants to help the team.

At some point however Elgin baited him with a comment about the offseason and in trying to sound like the good soldier he said that he would rather retire than go to another team and gave Elgin the opening he was probably hoping for the whole time. The portion of the interview that Elgin focused on probably took up about 20 seconds of the hour that he was there.

Now that being WTF is Lavar thinking granting the interview in the 1st place during the biggest week of his pro football career? He is either on of two thing, incredibly stupid or a complete narcissist.

Now on to the UnWise Mike article. You can't condemn Lavar for this article because it wasn't his doing that it came out. Wise was just going with the old adage "Good news is bad news" for the print and radio industry. Everything has been going too well for the Skins and the media is trying to stir the pot to make their jobs more interesting. The Post has written way too many fluff pieces lately and needed to spice things up. Unfortunately the fluff pieces were about Tom Coughlin and Bill Parcells.

But the article itself did bring up some extremely worrisome issues if everything reported is factual.

It is clear that the whole "Lavar is finally buying into the system" is a fallacy. There is zero chance that he is here next year. There are obviously two very distinct schools on this much like in politics. Once school defends Lavar no matter what while the other is ready to cast him into the abyss.

Much like politics I fall somewhere in the middle. I want Lavar to be a Redskin for life but not on his terms. I like Lavar and he seems like a nice guy but from all evidence I like and trust this coaching staff more. Too many coaches have said the same things. Should Dale Lindsay have publicly berated him? Probably not but nobody here has any idea how the situation played out. What mistakes were made and are they mistakes he has made many times before? Lavar wants to be treated like a man and then acts like a little baby when he gets yelled at. Do you really think that Lindsay was yelling at him because he was doing his job correctly?

People also keep equating this situation to situations they have had in their lives. Guess what? The NFL is not like your life. The stakes of what they do on Sunday is huge and you can't equate it to the time you forgot to attach the TPS cover page to your fax. You can undo most of the mistakes in your job with a phone call or an email. You can't undo giving up a touchdown.

Lastly for all the people talking about how much better the team is with Lavar in there please explain this:

Redskins with Lavar playing extended minutes: 4-4 20.9 ppg allowed

Redskins without Lavar playing extended minutes: 5-2 15.1 ppg allowed

And before you credit the Skins record with him to the offensive production we have averaged 24.1 with him in the lineup while only 19.3 with him out of the lineup.

Nicely said! :applause: As much as you love both, you realize it takes two to tango and they probably won't be dancing for too much longer.

[DaSkinzBaby]

Well all know that the NFL owners have there own private club. I am sure that Snyder can drop enough words to devalue any athlete on this team and I don't think that would be such a stretch. Add LaVar not being able to stop running his mouth and that would only validate whatever Snyder MAY BE OR MAY HAVE said. Look at the collective bargaining agreement, that is the problem the owners want more and more of the money and not even gaurantee contracts for a highly VIOLENT sport. When is enough money enough money? Let's see how the owners would feel if the roles were reversed! What also should be kept in mind is this is a game, anyone paying millions of dollars for a "game" to young kids that no nothing about life is a shame in the first place. But heck we now have people playing video games as a profession and earning hundreds of thousands of dollars a year while teachers are just above poverty! As Arnold said in the terminator "IT'S ALL BULL SH!T DILLION"

[jimster]

This is not fact at all. The problem with you is that you get all your information from Extremeskins.com. You have to go outside the box man. Go to Redskins.com and check out GW's comments on Lavar. He says he is PROUD of Lavar for how he has handled things this season. Jeremiah Trotter was quoted this week about how he has heard that Lavar's professionalism and work ethic have changed dramatically. Lavar came on 980 this week and gave his teammates, coaches (he named lindsey specifically) much credit. Said there schemes were allowing them to win. Now the media comes out with some stuff and you bury Lavar. Leave the box, see all there is to see.

Amen, brother.

One big reason an article like this is written is because of this thread - 30 pages of reactions. - That was Wise's number 1 goal.

[JimmiJo]

"Snyder had killed his career here for obvious reasons."

Dear Mr. Snyder,

Can you please "kill my career" but treating me as you did Mr. Arrington. I would like you to treat me the same way - especially the part where you pay me millions of dollars and invite me to hang out in your personal box.

[jimster]

here's a picture of Lindsey on the phone with Lavar

[jimster]

...and the training room afterwards

[drone007]

Maybe LaVar really IS stupid, because he can't seem to stop tying his own rope. His hands are just autonomous at this point... One step closer to the edge of the plank, one might say. :laugh:

I love the way he plays, but jeez... Any normal human being would've decided already to just not talk to the press for the rest of the season. This guy doesn't seem to have a clue. :doh: