Wise - After a Shove, a Fall From Grace (Lavar Shouting Match w/Coach after Sat game)

[Lead Blocker]

The response here is interesting.

An article comes out that puts LaVar in a bad light and the general response on this board is to bash him.

An article comes out that supports LaVar and the general response on this board is to bash him some more.

I've even seen posts on this board blindly supporting assistant coaches who have been here for two years versus a player who has been here since 2000.

More than likely, there is blame to go on both sides. Blame that we on the outside will not know about.

I wonder if the defensive back coaches dogged Shawn Springs during and after the 1st Philly game when Gregg Williams singled him out on TV for the blown assignment that led to Reggie Brown's TD. Did they dog Shawn Springs during and after the TB game when G. Williams singled him out again for a missed zone assignment that led to a big gain by Galloway.

I'm pointing this out because there appears to be this belief that only LaVar misses assignments on the field or that coaches are only singling out LaVar.

You have to wonder: Did Dale Lindsay dog Warrick Holdman the same way when big running plays were executed to his side of the field? Of course, I don't know if he missed the assignment, but he didn't make the plays (plural) either. If memory serves me, the coaching staff protected Holdman during that period and never singled him out.

If you are LaVar and the answer is no to all of these questions, you have to wonder why are you the nerve the coaches continue to pick? Why your friend, Danny, suddenly shuts down your greetings?

[ouvan59]

I've even seen posts on this board blindly supporting assistant coaches who have been here for two years versus a player who has been here since 2000.

Not saying that I blindly support coaches who have only been here two years but this defense has been darned good the last two years for the most part without Lavar.

I wonder if the defensive back coaches dogged Shawn Springs during and after the 1st Philly game when Gregg Williams singled him out on TV for the blown assignment that led to Reggie Brown's TD. Did they dog Shawn Springs during and after the TB game when G. Williams singled him out again for a missed zone assignment that led to a big gain by Galloway.

I'm pointing this out because there appears to be this belief that only LaVar misses assignments on the field or that coaches are only singling out LaVar.

You have to wonder: Did Dale Lindsay dog Warrick Holdman the same way when big running plays were executed to his side of the field? Of course, I don't know if he missed the assignment, but he didn't make the plays (plural) either. If memory serves me, the coaching staff protected Holdman during that period and never singled him out.

Show me where the coaching staff has ever singled Lavar out in public for any particular play. And how are you so certain that they didn't blast Holdman or Springs or anybody else that screws up. Gregg Williams in particular yells at players all day long in practice. I have a hard time believing it is all or even mostly directed at Lavar especially since he loudly claimed that nobody ever told him what he was doing wrong.

The only time the coaching staff has ever mentioned Lavar was in response to reporters questions on why he wasn't playing or his injury status. And the only time they ever said anything detrimental about him was in response to his rants in the press.

[bigjumbo1971]

The response here is interesting.

An article comes out that puts LaVar in a bad light and the general response on this board is to bash him.

An article comes out that supports LaVar and the general response on this board is to bash him some more.

I've even seen posts on this board blindly supporting assistant coaches who have been here for two years versus a player who has been here since 2000.

More than likely, there is blame to go on both sides. Blame that we on the outside will not know about.

I wonder if the defensive back coaches dogged Shawn Springs during and after the 1st Philly game when Gregg Williams singled him out on TV for the blown assignment that led to Reggie Brown's TD. Did they dog Shawn Springs during and after the TB game when G. Williams singled him out again for a missed zone assignment that led to a big gain by Galloway.

I'm pointing this out because there appears to be this belief that only LaVar misses assignments on the field or that coaches are only singling out LaVar.

You have to wonder: Did Dale Lindsay dog Warrick Holdman the same way when big running plays were executed to his side of the field? Of course, I don't know if he missed the assignment, but he didn't make the plays (plural) either. If memory serves me, the coaching staff protected Holdman during that period and never singled him out.

If you are LaVar and the answer is no to all of these questions, you have to wonder why are you the nerve the coaches continue to pick? Why your friend, Danny, suddenly shuts down your greetings?

good post

like i stated earlier if we're so much better with Holdman then why isn't he playing?...answer Denver and KC...in this league you better go for self...get all the money you can while you can...there is no such thing as loyalty from management or fans (thinking how I wanted to run Brunell out of town during last season and before this season)

[jimster]

If memory serves me, the coaching staff protected Holdman during that period and never singled him out.

If you are LaVar and the answer is no to all of these questions, you have to wonder why are you the nerve the coaches continue to pick? Why your friend, Danny, suddenly shuts down your greetings?

The coaching staff never singled out Lavar either, in fact they don't hang ANY player out to dry. Even when they DO screw up. - Lavar is the one stirring the pot here, thus bringing attention to himself.

And as far as his relationship with Snyder, like mentioned in the other thread, how would you feel if a good friend of yours told everyone you know, - family, friends, co-workers, people in your town, business peers, that you intentionally stole a large amount of money from them? - You'd still be chummy with that person, right?

[Taylor 36]

:doh: That's all I've got. :doh:

[ChocolateCitySkin]

Arggggggh Lavar stop being so stupid.

[Bizkiteer]

And as far as his relationship with Snyder, like mentioned in the other thread, how would you feel if a good friend of yours told everyone you know, - family, friends, co-workers, people in your town, business peers, that you intentionally stole a large amount of money from them? - You'd still be chummy with that person, right?

How would you feel if your buddy took 6.5 million (or your enitre year's salary)? Yeah, you might feel like calling him out too, so put the show on the other foot. I guess if a person is a victim of a crime they shouldn't report either. Oh yeah, I forgot...Danny and the FO said.."we don't know what you're talking about in regards to the 6.5 million." That makes it okay. Please...

He's the owner, he's supposed to rise above it regardless. Just as a manager does when an employee acts up, you don't get into a pissing contest with them...that's what makes you management and makes them a regular employee.

[ntotoro]

How would you feel if your buddy took 6.5 million (or your enitre year's salary)? Yeah, you might feel like calling him out too, so put the show on the other foot. I guess if a person is a victim of a crime they shouldn't report either. Oh yeah, I forgot...Danny and the FO said.."we don't know what you're talking about in regards to the 6.5 million." That makes it okay. Please...

Prove that it was ever there to begin with.

You can't.

[TheSteve]

Prove that it was ever there to begin with.

You can't.

This is the most inane and stupid argument I've ever heard. You weren't in the discussions either so its not like you can take a stance one way or the other.

[MidPennSkin]

The coaching staff never singled out Lavar either, in fact they don't hang ANY player out to dry. Even when they DO screw up. - Lavar is the one stirring the pot here, thus bringing attention to himself.

This whole brouhaha is due to Lavar's immaturity and arrogance. He's always been the center of attention, and he can't understand that he has to give it up and play in a disciplined way for the good of the team. If he can't be in the spotlight for his play, he will get there some other way, like giving "poor me" interviews before crucial games. I'm sick of his whining. Lavar is both of the following:

[ntotoro]

This is the most inane and stupid argument I've ever heard. You weren't in the discussions either so its not like you can take a stance one way or the other.

Neither was he. He made a gratuitous assertion that the money was owed LaVar and that Dan Snyder swindled him, thus forcing LaVar's panties to get in a bunch. That assertion can be equally gratuitously denied.

You can't prove either way that the discussion concerning it took place, but the bottom line is that second $6.5m bonus isn't in his contract.

It didn't make sense to begin with. Why have a second roster bonus of the same amount due on the same day rather than a single $13m roster bonus? It makes no sense. Given the Postons have a tendency to look at the bottom of the Wonderlic charts for their clients, I'd put my money on them being wrong rather than any wrongdoing from the 'Skins' FO.

[TheSteve]

Neither was he. He made a gratuitous assertion that the money was owed LaVar and that Dan Snyder swindled him, thus forcing LaVar's panties to get in a bunch. That assertion can be equally gratuitously denied.

You can't prove either way that the discussion, but the bottom line is that second $6.5m bonus isn't in his contract.

It wasn't gratuitous because Lavar filed a complaint and was about to take to arbitration before him and Gibbs resolved it all, which would indicate there was some reason for mistrust.

Either way, I'm certainly not as naive as you are to think all there is to this situation is Lavar's irresponsiblity and selfishness.

Honestly talking to you lavar haters is like arguing with a jilted woman. You guys are all emotional vitrol and no logic.

[ntotoro]

It wasn't gratuitous because Lavar filed a complaint and was about to take to arbitration before him and Gibbs resolved it all, which would indicate there was some reason for mistrust.

Either way, I'm certainly not as naive as you are to think all there is to this situation is Lavar's irresponsiblity and selfishness.

Honestly talking to you lavar haters is like arguing with a jilted woman. You guys are all emotional vitrol and no logic.

No logic? Everything for the case against LaVar is based on logic. Quotes, happenings, things he has done. The people defending him have been using the opposite of logic.

"He sells jerseys."

"People are passionate for him."

"He doesn't like being bossed around by people who make less money than he does."

That's not logic. Logic is realizing that the common denominator in all of LaVar's problems and issues is LaVar himself.

The situation I equally gratuitously denined was a gratuitous assertion. LaVar himself wasn't in the meetings. Even Gene Upshaw urged against arbitration because he knew LaVar would lose. There is no way that anyone can prove the $6.5m bonus was supposed to be given to LaVar and Gene Upshaw knew that. He was urged into arbitration by Larry & Moe Poston.

[TheSteve]

No logic? Everything for the case against LaVar is based on logic. Quotes, happenings, things he has done. The people defending him have been using the opposite of logic.

"He sells jerseys."

"People are passionate for him."

"He doesn't like being bossed around by people who make less money than he does."

That's not logic. Logic is realizing that the common denominator in all of LaVar's problems and issues is LaVar himself.

The situation I equally gratuitously denined was a gratuitous assertion. LaVar himself wasn't in the meetings. Even Gene Upshaw urged against arbitration because he knew LaVar would lose. There is no way that anyone can prove the $6.5m bonus was supposed to be given to LaVar and Gene Upshaw knew that. He was urged into arbitration by Larry & Moe Poston.

Is that really the only thing you've read defending Lavar or do you just select the weakest argument so you can stay secure in your belief that Lavar is the equivalent of T.O.?

[GaryClark#84]

Art- I think the truth of this matter lies somewhere in the middle. It's going to be a controversial subject because people either LOVE Lavar or hate him. I understand both arguments and see exactly where your coming from. But in all the time I've spent around the team, I've experienced nothing but good from the guy. I truly feel that if he had the opportunity to wake up tomorrow and put all this behind him- he would trade almost anything for that.

What we need to remeber as fans (and something we usually forget) is that any work place has issues. Just because a guy had an argument with a coach doesn't mean we all have to choose sides. These issues aren't black and white. The truth is in the gray area, and I see where your coming from just like I'm sure that you see where I'm coming from.

I just like the guy- that's my 2 cents- now LETS GET A WIN!!!!! HTTR

My sentiments exactly. Well put.

[ntotoro]

Is that really the only thing you've read defending Lavar or do you just select the weakest argument so you can stay secure in your belief that Lavar is the equivalent of T.O.?

Stop trying to get around debunking what I said. You can't do it, anyway. Is your defense of him weak enough that you have to ignore the paper trail of nonsense he has accumulated the last two years?

I never compared him to TO. You attacked what people were saying about LaVar, saying that they lacked logic, as if somehow the people defending him were logical as Vulcans. Don't even attempt to think the argument for him is pristine.

[TheSteve]

Stop trying to get around debunking what I said. You can't do it, anyway. Is your defense of him weak enough that you have to ignore the paper trail of nonsense he has accumulated the last two years?

I never compared him to TO. You attacked what people were saying about LaVar, saying that they lacked logic, as if somehow the people defending him were logical as Vulcans. Don't even attempt to think the argument for him is pristine.

Dude whatever. I've wasted too many hours debating the Lavar issue on here on other threads. If you wish to read them, you're welcome to use the search function like anyone else, but I'm not going to rehash everything all over again. And if you don't wish to read them, then you're perfectly welcome to continue to the Lavar Is Trash circle jerk you were enjoying before I unceremoniously interrupted.

[JWB]

This is just more of the "Washington ComPosts" Skins Bashing

[SittingBull]

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

[ntotoro]

Dude whatever. I've wasted too many hours debating the Lavar issue on here on other threads. If you wish to read them, you're welcome to use the search function like anyone else, but I'm not going to rehash everything all over again.

You chose to get involved in a dialogue I started with someone else. There's no one to blame but yourself.

[Bizkiteer]

The situation I equally gratuitously denined was a gratuitous assertion. LaVar himself wasn't in the meetings. Even Gene Upshaw urged against arbitration because he knew LaVar would lose. There is no way that anyone can prove the $6.5m bonus was supposed to be given to LaVar and Gene Upshaw knew that. He was urged into arbitration by Larry & Moe Poston.

Turnaround is fair play....you know this because you were there? I'll ask this why would the Redskins try to settle anything with him IF they were not at fault at all? Anytime things are settled, means they either did or left themselves open where they could have been taken for far more. Of course, it does the organization good to squash ti faster, so settling does that too. See two sides...point is no one really knows!

[ntotoro]

Turnaround is fair play....you know this because you were there?

That was actually my line. You made a gratuitous assertion, I equally gratuitously countered it, but I also presented some facts in the matter. Try to follow along.

I'll ask this why would the Redskins try to settle anything with him IF they were not at fault at all? Anytime things are settled, means they either did or left themselves open where they could have been taken for far more. Of course, it does the organization good to squash ti faster, so settling does that too. See two sides...point is no one really knows!

The 'Skins wanted it to go to arbitration. They knew they'd win. LaVar's agents and the NLFPA kept postponing it, for whatever reason. LaVar dropped it. Two days later, he said it was on again. Coach Gibbs jumped in and basically said "look, let's end all this nonsense" and Gene Upshaw pushed for that.

That was what happened and it all happened very publicly. There was no way to prove LaVar was owed a redundant bonus and everyone involved knew it.

[The Animal Trainer]

Man...we need to stop all this nonsense until after the season is over. When you have players choosing sides in an argument like this it results in a divided locker room which is CANCER. I can't believe Wise would write this article at this point in the season. Wait until the eagles game and (if we win) the playoffs are over. All an article like that does is throw fuel on the fire and distract the team. In the words of Joe Gibbs, I'm not talking about anything from here on out but the Eagles. This is the most important game for the Redskins in 5 years.

[Bizkiteer]

That was actually my line. Try to follow along.

Jesus, that is why I was using it w/ you! Is it time to punch out yet? TGIF

[4Ever51]

The fact is, If Lavar has a few sacks, and a bunch of tackles, you will all be proclaiming him, King of the world, once more. Let the management take care of whatever it needs to take care of, and let us do our job as fans. Cheer our team on this weekend against Philly. Go Skins!!!