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So Whats Wrong With Saying Merry Christmas???

qcraftsman

By qcraftsman
in The Tailgate

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Heidenreich

Heidenreich

Posted
Posted

This PC crap annoys the hell out of me too, but why concern yourself whether or not a Target/Walmart employee says Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays? All i want is for those MFers to get me through the line quickly w/o having to call for a price check.

Exactly. I'm doing all of my Xmas shopping on Monday. I know the malls are going to be packed, and it's going to suck. But the people ringing me up could tell me to go "f" myself, but if they got me through the line in 5 minutes, i'd be fine.

Seriously, this Christmas stuff doesn't bother me. I'm just so used to saying "Merry Christmas" all the time that I'm used to it. The upper management in my company is mostly jewish, but even knowing that, it's so drilled in my head that December is "Christmas Season" that ending a conversation with "Have a Merry Christmas" is just my way of being nice. I'm certainly not trying to offend or exclude people, I'm just trying to spread some holiday cheer.

Some people are just wound too tight. There are so many more important things to worry about........

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BlueTalon

BlueTalon

Posted
Posted
What are you people so damn bitter over? If some company uses Happy Holidays to make their minority customers a little happier who are you to try to force them to say Merry Christmas. If it pisses you guys off so much don't shop there. Why don't you just let people that want to say Happy Holidays say it and you can say Merry Christmas.

To all people who celebrate Christmas have a Merry Christmas.

Everyone else have Happy Holidays.

Oops I said "Happy Holidays" am I going to get lynched now?

No, you're not going to get lynched.

You're missing the point. There are probably some out there who want store greetings to be exclusively Christmas related, but the vast majority of us just want it to be included and not shunned. If a store wants to have Happy Holiday + Happy Hannukah + Merry Christmas + Happy Ramadan + Happy Kwanza on different banners throughout the store, more power to them. I'm not in the least bit offended by that. But it seems that there was/is a PC push happening to try and de-christmasize Christmas.

Our country historically has celebrated Christmas. It is a religious holiday, but it is also a cultural holiday that people can celebrate without even a hint of religious overtones if they so choose. Given that, the push to eliminate public reference to Christmas seems as extreme as trying to get "in God we trust" off the money. Most of you Happy-Holidayers have said that you don't find the name "Christmas" or the term "Christmas tree" to be offensive -- but the PC police have determined that they might be offensive to some (mostly to themselves, IMO) and shall be expunged.

If you don't see how that can be offensive to us, then perhaps you're not thinking it through. Or perhaps you're not terribly interested interested in understanding our perspective.

By the way, Liberty, you said "If it pisses you guys off so much don't shop there." I think part of what started this discussion is some Christian groups doing exactly that.

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Prosperity

Prosperity

Posted
Posted
No, you're not going to get lynched.

You're missing the point. There are probably some out there who want store greetings to be exclusively Christmas related, but the vast majority of us just want it to be included and not shunned. If a store wants to have Happy Holiday + Happy Hannukah + Merry Christmas + Happy Ramadan + Happy Kwanza on different banners throughout the store, more power to them. I'm not in the least bit offended by that. But it seems that there was/is a PC push happening to try and de-christmasize Christmas.

Our country historically has celebrated Christmas. It is a religious holiday, but it is also a cultural holiday that people can celebrate without even a hint of religious overtones if they so choose. Given that, the push to eliminate public reference to Christmas seems as extreme as trying to get "in God we trust" off the money. Most of you Happy-Holidayers have said that you don't find the name "Christmas" or the term "Christmas tree" to be offensive -- but the PC police have determined that they might be offensive to some (mostly to themselves, IMO) and shall be expunged.

If you don't see how that can be offensive to us, then perhaps you're not thinking it through. Or perhaps you're not terribly interested interested in understanding our perspective.

By the way, Liberty, you said "If it pisses you guys off so much don't shop there." I think part of what started this discussion is some Christian groups doing exactly that.

I understood the offense taken at a tree being called a Holiday tree (see the Boston, tree thread) because it could be seen as turning a Christian symbol into a secular one, but this case is completely different. A company wants to have inclusive greetings to make all their customers happy. In an effort to attract more customers. Now I suppose they could say Happy Hannakah, Happy Kwanza or whatever, but why not just say Happy Holidays, that term is simple and the most efficient and it covers all the holidays and anyone who is celebrating whatever. Now I don't know why anyone would be insulted that a company wants to be more personal and inclusive to its customer base.

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DaFunky1

DaFunky1

Posted
Posted

I can understand the arguments from both sides of the aisle... However for the most part it is Christmas time here in the United States. Whether people are Christians, or just celebrate the secular side of Christmas, doesn't change things. In the USA it is Christmas time (even though Chanuka falls on Christmas Eve this year, if I am not mistaken).

A lot of the stink started last year with Target removing the Salvation Army bell ringers from their stores. This is the time of year the SA raises a good portion of their operating funds. I know the Salvation Army was one of the first groups to respond to the victims of Katrina and some of the lost funds would have really helped them to help others this year. Target can do whatever they want with their business and customers can decide to shop there if they want to or not. Wal-Mart did step in and make a large donation to help offset the losses so kudos to them for that.

On a side note all the big box stores get on my nerves anymore. Target's return policy is not customer friendly, Wal-Mart won't spend the money to have enough cashiers to check you in a timely fashion (the less spent on payroll the bigger the bonus can be for the store manager), and K-mart... well K-mart just sucks.

I'm sorry that some get offended by being wished a Merry Christmas... Most of the time the statement is meant genuinely and should be received positively because someone took the time to wish it to them. If someone wishes me Happy Chanuka I'll accept it gladly and might even wish them one back (I've never really gotten into the whole Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, Happy Thanksgiving thing).

85% of the population claims to be Christian... so in essense we are a "Christian" nation. If Christmas is a holiday that is observed by the majority then that is the one that should be primarily recognized. In Israel people are getting ready to celebrate Chanuka, and the minority of Christians there probably aren't crying about Christmas not being included in the festivities or being wished a Merry Christmas... why? Because Israel is a Jewish country.

Merry Christmas has most likely been around since the founding of this country... it definitely is a tradition that has been around a long time and is ingrained in our society. I think most people that get offended over the secularizing of Christmas look at removing prayer and the bible from public schools, references to God and religion being removed, changing BC and AD to BCE and CE (the pivot point is still Jesus's life), and various other moves made to remove Christian symbols from our society and see this as another step in doing that. I am referencing the changing of the name Christmas tree to holiday tree - which other major religions use a tree in their observance around Christmas time? That change is retarded... The tree symbolizes Christmas not Kwanza, Chanuka, Ramadan (sp), or Festivus. :)

Christmas isn't what it once was for me... The family traditions have changed, new people have come into the family and want their traditions involved as well, and a lot of what was special to me growing up is gone. Maybe if I had kids I would see it differently, but since I don't Christmas doesn't matter too much to me these days. I try to focus on being with family and seeing them be happy instead of just focusing on traditions.

I hope you guys, and gals, have a wonderful holiday season - whichever holiday you choose to observe.

Peace

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DjTj

DjTj

Posted
Posted
You raise a lot of interesting points, but I think you use the word "hatred" a little too loosely. DarkLadyRaven's argument is that the "hatred" of Christians in this country is nothing compared to the persecution of Christians elsewhere, and it can't even be compared to the hatred of Muslims in this country. Even though there is a counter-majoritarian bias among intellectuals, it is still easier to be Christian in this country than to be of any other religion - Christian holidays are universally celebrated, there are Christian churches in virtually every town, and every single United States President has been a Christian.

Djtj

I have alot of respect for you, but for you to say that muslims here are treated worse than christians anywhere else in the world I find offensive. One only has to look at Sudan, knowing that can you really tell me muslims are treated worse than christians arround the world. Please include suicide bombs.

I just want to point out that I said:

(1) Christians elsewhere are treated worse than Christians in the U.S.

(2) Muslims in the U.S. are treated worse than Christians in the U.S.

I never tried to compare the treatment of Muslims in the U.S. with the treatment of Christians elsewhere.

I guess I'll also add that I'm a person that tends to say "Merry Christmas" to people. I'm not a regular churchgoer, but I did go to church when I was younger, and if I had to categorize myself I would probably say that I'm a lazy Christian - I certainly sympathize with Christianity more than any other religion, I would consider going to church more later in life, and most importantly for this discussion, I celebrate Christmas.

"Happy Holidays" seems a little conrived to me, and I guess I'm not a retail employee so I don't have to say it. However, I don't get offended when I hear either greeting - tell me "Happy Hannukah" and as long as you are sincere, I'll take it happily. My personal opinion is that people are far too sensitive about all of these things.

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jrockster21

jrockster21

Posted
Posted
Yeah, it's so tough for us Christians in this country. Sometimes I don't even know how I get out of bed in the morning.

:laugh: Careful dude...some of the sarcasm in that post oozed out of my monitor and almost ruined my keyboard!! :laugh:

What are you people so damn bitter over? If some company uses Happy Holidays to make their minority customers a little happier who are you to try to force them to say Merry Christmas. If it pisses you guys off so much don't shop there. Why don't you just let people that want to say Happy Holidays say it and you can say Merry Christmas.

To all people who celebrate Christmas have a Merry Christmas.

Everyone else have Happy Holidays.

Oops I said "Happy Holidays" am I going to get lynched now?

Liberty has hit it on the head...this is 100% correct. Who cares? Are you people so selfish that you can't tolerate Happy Holidays to make someone else a tiny bit happier? Sheesh...way to go with the "Holiday" spirit.

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jrockster21

jrockster21

Posted
Posted

Just got this via email from a friend:

WASHINGTON, DC -- The Supreme Court has ruled that there cannot be a Nativity Scene in Washington, DC this Christmas season.

This isn't for any religious reason, they simply have not been able to find three wise men and a virgin in the Nation's capitol.

There was no problem, however, finding enough asses to fill the stable.

:paranoid:

Just trying to lighten the mood....

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nelms

nelms

Posted
Posted
Liberty has hit it on the head...this is 100% correct. Who cares? Are you people so selfish that you can't tolerate Happy Holidays to make someone else a tiny bit happier? Sheesh...way to go with the "Holiday" spirit.

Goes both ways. Can't the tiny, itty, bitty, little minority tolerate "Merry Christmas" and let the majority be a bit happier.

I have a solution: how 'bout we don't say anything to anyone, except maybe "bah, humbug". I hate effin Christmas.

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Zuck

Zuck

Posted
Posted
Most of you have probably heard this now. Merry Christmas can't be said and it shouldn't be said. Only Happy Holidays is the phrase now. I'm not sure who all is behind this, but it is very stupid. I know Walmart is against it. What do you all think? And by the way Merry Christmas!!!

Probably because it assumes people are Christian or something. It would be like Jews walking around saying Happy Hannukah to everyone.

Not really offensive but could be kind of annoying if your not Christian or don't like the idea of a holiday based around buying gifts.

I don't think it's that big of a deal though.

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jrockster21

jrockster21

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Posted
Goes both ways. Can't the tiny, itty, bitty, little minority tolerate "Merry Christmas" and let the majority be a bit happier.

I have a solution: how 'bout we don't say anything to anyone, except maybe "bah, humbug". I hate effin Christmas.

I'd bet money that if during Ramadan (sp?) every store in America, every street in America, etc. had big signs that said "Happy Ramadan!" and there were huge advertisements about fasting and all that stuff everywhere, Christians would be ****ing.

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WeaponXDawkins

WeaponXDawkins

Posted
Posted
I'd bet money that if during Ramadan (sp?) every store in America, every street in America, etc. had big signs that said "Happy Ramadan!" and there were huge advertisements about fasting and all that stuff everywhere, Christians would be ****ing.

I wouldn't care, that's why America is great, a little thing called "freedom of religion." Even for you atheists. :silly:

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Maxito

Maxito

Posted
Posted

Well Merry Christmas to all of you. I don't know why people get offended when they hear Merry Christmas. My cousin lives in an apartment complex. The complex had to take down their christmas tree in the main lobby because someone complained saying some BS. Hopefully they will put it this year.

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stevenaa

stevenaa

Posted
Posted
:laugh: Careful dude...some of the sarcasm in that post oozed out of my monitor and almost ruined my keyboard!! :laugh:

Liberty has hit it on the head...this is 100% correct. Who cares? Are you people so selfish that you can't tolerate Happy Holidays to make someone else a tiny bit happier? Sheesh...way to go with the "Holiday" spirit.

What he is correct about is the majority being punished by the whims of the minority. I don't care which is said, but I find it unfortunate that employees are forced to bandon their beliefs because of the thin skinned minority.

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Joe Sick

Joe Sick

Posted
Posted

Guess who else is on the PC side of the Merry Christmas / Happy Holidays debate?

The President!

What's missing from the White House Christmas card? Christmas.

This month, as in every December since he took office, President Bush sent out cards with a generic end-of-the-year message, wishing 1.4 million of his close friends and supporters a happy "holiday season."

Many people are thrilled to get a White House Christmas card, no matter what the greeting inside. But some conservative Christians are reacting as if Bush stuck coal in their stockings.

"This clearly demonstrates that the Bush administration has suffered a loss of will and that they have capitulated to the worst elements in our culture," said William A. Donohue, president of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights.

Bush "claims to be a born-again, evangelical Christian. But he sure doesn't act like one," said Joseph Farah, editor of the conservative Web site WorldNetDaily.com. "I threw out my White House card as soon as I got it."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/06/AR2005120601900_pf.html

If Christians were so persecuted, don't you think they'd have bigger worries than a Holiday card / Holiday tree or Holiday greeting?

----

One of the generals on the pro-Christmas side is Tim Wildmon, president of the American Family Association in Tupelo, Miss. "Sometimes it's hard to tell whether this is sinister -- it's the purging of Christ from Christmas -- or whether it's just political correctness run amok," he said. "I think in the case of the White House, it's just political correctness."

Wildmon does not give retailers the same benefit of the doubt. This year, he has called for a consumer boycott of Target stores because the chain issued a holiday advertising circular that did not mention Christmas. Last year, he aimed a similar boycott at Macy's Inc., which averted a repeat this December by proclaiming "Merry Christmas" in its advertising and in-store displays.

"It bothers me that the White House card leaves off any reference to Jesus, while we've got Ramadan celebrations in the White House," Wildmon said. "What's going on there?"

:doh:

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China

China

Posted
Posted
Guess who else is on the PC side of the Merry Christmas / Happy Holidays debate?

The President!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/06/AR2005120601900_pf.html

If Christians were so persecuted, don't you think they'd have bigger worries than a Holiday card / Holiday tree or Holiday greeting?

----

:doh:

Come on, it's not about sending his true Christmas wishes to people it's about politics. Why else would the President be issuing 1.4 million cards (I don't think he knows that many people personally) that are being paid for by the RNC. He's certainly not the first president to do this, just the latest (although 1.4 million is alot more than the 2000 the Kennedy's sent out in 1962).

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SoCalSkins

SoCalSkins

Posted
Posted

My problem with Christmas is that no one acknowledges its actual roots. Christianity stole a holiday based on the earth's movement. The winter solstice has been celebrated around the world far longer than Christmas has. It is disingenuous of Christians to say that the roots of Christmas are about Christ and Christianity, because it is not. It's roots are the most secular of all celebrations because it's based on the rotation of the earth. Christians can pretend they are celebrating the birth of Christ, but the reality is that Christ is not the original reason for the season. But why let facts ruin perfectly good mythology?

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