Vaya Con Dios, Manny! The plight of the 2018 Orioles

[Hersh]

I can accept that the O's are not the Yanks and will have losing seasons. It's difficult to accept this kind of incompetence. It's a ****ing embarrassment that they won't sign any international players. In the meantime, they waste millions on Chris Tillman and Colby Rasmus and assemble a terrible roster to begin the season. Gary Thorne was 100% correct in his interview with the Angels broadcaster about the turmoil the entire organization is in. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

4 minutes ago, Hersh said:

I can accept that the O's are not the Yanks and will have losing seasons. It's difficult to accept this kind of incompetence. It's a ****ing embarrassment that they won't sign any international players. In the meantime, they waste millions on Chris Tillman and Colby Rasmus and assemble a terrible roster to begin the season. Gary Thorne was 100% correct in his interview with the Angels broadcaster about the turmoil the entire organization is in. 

 

What did he say?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Bob Nightengale

 

✔@BNightengale

 

 

The #Dodgers are doubling down: They not only are aggressively pursuing #Orioles SS Manny Machado, but also #Tigers starter Michael Fulmer. The #Orioles, heavily scouting the Dodgers' minor-league system, want Class A pitcher Dustin May included in any package of prospects.

1:57 PM - Jul 3, 2018

[Hersh]

21 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

What did he say?

 

The O's seem to have been asking for the video to be taken down as it's been removed from several sources. Even the transcript is gone. He talked about how there is all kinds of dysfunction in the organization from ownership, the front office, everywhere. I'm trying to find it still. 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

 

 

Nice hair, dip****

[Hersh]

Quote

VICTOR ROJAS: It's the longtime voice of the Baltimore Orioles, Gary Thorne, our guest here on the pre-game show. I'm talking a little bit about this Baltimore Orioles team. I know the Angels have struggled of late. They come in to play tonight, a six-game losing streak, and you're not feeling too sorry for us, are you? 

GARY THORNE: No, we hope you lose nine in a row, actually, and then you can go away and do whatever you got to do. O's have lost five in a row coming into this, and everybody's noticed. They're battling for the worst record in baseball, day in, day out with usually Texas there and Kansas City. It's been a real struggle. It's hard to believe that as many players could sink to such levels offensively compared to what their career numbers are as has happened to the Orioles. Except for Manny Machado and Adam Jones, virtually everybody has immensely struggled for the long term already through the first half of the season. 

VICTOR ROJAS: We're a couple of weeks away from the All-star break. After that it's the trade deadline. Do you really believe that Manny Machado will get moved at some point? 

GARY THORNE: Honest to God, this is an honest answer. I have no idea, and I don't think this organization knows, which is one of the problems. There's such disorganization here right now from the top down, that there are no answers to anything. It seems as though Manny has to go because this organization has never been known to pay that kind of money for anybody. They made the big deal with Chris Davis, which has now come to bite them in the back, for the moment. I mean, Chris is trying, but right now it ain't working, and there's four more years left on it. And you've got to believe an organization going through that is going to look at saying, we're going to pay Manny $30-40 million a year after what we just did with Chris Davis and what happened? 

So I don't know that they'd do that but nobody knows. So you're dealing with a ball club where everybody's looking over their shoulder, nobody's safe on the roster, I don't think, there's absolutely only rumors out there about deals and discussions. So it's complete turmoil. 

VICTOR ROJAS: It's not just Manny Machado because you've got Adam Jones, a free agent to be. Zach Britton, I know he just came off the disabled list. So there's any number of players that I'm sure a lot of teams would like to have on their roster. 

GARY THORNE: And the worst part of that for the Orioles is, it's become harder. Zach has got to prove himself again, and it hasn't gone well the last couple of periods. Brad Brock, a set up guy, is struggling. They thought they'd get a lot for him. Adam Jones is a veteran, not having his best year, but still he's a value to somebody. But do you want to trade the face of the organization. Manny is now, but Adam has had that role for a long time. And then there's Manny. So you've got four big free agents out there, only one of whom, Manny, has really produced. And everybody else, people are just kind of going back and forth on what do you do with Britton and Brock and Oday, who's now injured. They hoped to get something for him. Now he's on the DL, so right now he's worth nothing. 

I don't envy the front office or ownership because the decisions that have to be made are going to be tough, and they're being made tougher by the way the season is going. 

VICTOR ROJAS: And those are on field free agents. You also have Buck Showalter and Jim Duquette, the manager and general manager, also under contract through this year. What happens with those two guys? 

GARY THORNE: You're going to get the same answer I gave you on the players. I have absolutely no idea. And again, I say neither do they. And again, I say neither does the organization. I honestly believe the organization has not made a decision on what to do with Buck. I can't imagine that Duquette comes back. I love him, and I think he's done a great job. But the organization is never going to forgive him for wanting to take the Toronto job last year. He's not going to get by that. So I think he's gone, and I think the process of interviewing for the GM is already under way. I know it is. So there's another tough one. 

I mean, he's going to try and do everything he can for the organization while he's here, but at the same time, he's looking over his shoulder too, like, where am I going to go when this is over? And Buck's down there going, where am I? I got a guy I got to talk to everyday who's probably not going to be here. I don't know if I'm going to be here. And so it's just kind of a day to day, let's see what happens. 

VICTOR ROJAS: And before we let you go, on Buck, on the subject of Buck, I had a chance to work with him in Texas. And, obviously, he's a guy who's been around a long time. He's picked up a lot of Major League wins for a guy that kind of struggled to get to the big leagues. But overall, is he a guy that wants to manage? Do you think he's going to continue to manage? Or is he a front office guy moving forward? 

GARY THORNE: I wish I could give you one good answer, and I can't. I don't think he knows. There's been discussion about him moving up here to the GM position. Unless there's more structure in the organization, I don't think he would do that even if they asked. And we don't see that structure right now from top down. He still loves being on the field. He loves to manage. He also continues to talk about what he did with Arizona, putting a team, an organization back together again. I think he'd like to do that again. But it all comes down to the circumstances and the situation. And right now he has no idea what that looks like. 

VICTOR ROJAS: Gary, we appreciate it as always, buddy. 

GARY THORNE: Always great to give you solid answers. That's what I came here for and I did absolutely none of it.

 

https://www.foxsports.com/west/video/1267319363766?amp=true

 

I put the transcript in the event the link stops working.

[TheDoyler23]

Gary Thorne is still a treasure  

[Hersh]

 

Colby Rasmus placed on the restricted list. He's done playing baseball. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

22 minutes ago, TheDoyler23 said:

Gary Thorne is still a treasure  

 

Is that because we have to suffer through Jim Hunter tonite?

[Spaceman Spiff]

22 minutes ago, Hersh said:

 

Colby Rasmus placed on the restricted list. He's done playing baseball. 

 

**** that guy.  I am so glad he's gone.

[EBoz]

1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

**** that guy.  I am so glad he's gone.

Was he ever really here? 

[DCSaints_fan]

Wow, Tillman and Rasmus.  Way to piss $6m down the toilet. 

 

Do you hear me Peter Angelos?   Maybe we can sign some international talent sometime before the next presidential adminstration, instead of wasting it on washed up bums ?

[Hersh]

It’s extremely frustrating to watch their poor allocation of money. I really don’t understand why Angelos is so opposed to international signings cause this is 100% on him.

[TheDoyler23]

15 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

**** that guy.  I am so glad he's gone.

 

Yes! I hate him and his rat face and scraggly hair. Always hated him. Glad he’s gone.

 

Bring up DJ Stewart! 

2 hours ago, Hersh said:

It’s extremely frustrating to watch their poor allocation of money. I really don’t understand why Angelos is so opposed to international signings cause this is 100% on him.

 

It’s more of a moral issue for Angelos than financial. It kind of sucks that every other team can use this avenue to improve at a reasonable cost and the Orioles won’t. I guess that just won’t change until he’s gone. More rumors picking up about him selling, though. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I would love to see this team sell off its assets over the next week or two. I think getting out in front of the market would benefit the Orioles since they seem to take forever to pull the trigger. 

[TheDoyler23]

Just got some notification that Machado wants to play SS to the point in which he only wants to sign with a team that promises him the SS spot

 

He’s been ****ty at SS this year. From a platinum glove winning 3b to possibly a historically bad SS this year. Woof. 

[SkinFanInMinn]

And they manage to lose 4-1 while giving up only 3 hits.  Nice playing at first base Davis giving up the first two runs.

[Spaceman Spiff]

No denying it, this will be a historically bad team.  Like a top 10, all time bad team.  

 

Here's a list of the worst teams for the past 25 years:  https://www.foxsports.com/mlb/gallery/worst-mlb-teams-in-last-25-years-062310

 

Most of the teams on that list are in the 55 win range, except the 2003 Tigers.  We're like 2003 Tigers bad.  We're on pace to win 48 games, IIRC.  And this is before we trade Manny and anyone else that has some value.  Maybe the young players come up and provide a jolt but I think 50-53 wins is a stretch at this point.  

[RonArtest15]

Whole thing just needs to be burned down.  Just have a fire sale.  Bring up the young talent Hays, Mullins, Stewart, etc. and see what they can do.  It will at least give the fans something to look forward to. 

[TheDoyler23]

Talent wise and 'back of the baseball card; wise, this team is massively under preforming.

 

If you told me in April that this team is going to have fewer wins than the 2001-ish O's, I would have told you that you're crazy. But it's happening. 

 

 

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

3 hours ago, TheDoyler23 said:

Talent wise and 'back of the baseball card; wise, this team is massively under preforming.

 

If you told me in April that this team is going to have fewer wins than the 2001-ish O's, I would have told you that you're crazy. But it's happening. 

 

 

 

I was going to post this earlier. After we added Cobb and Cashner, we had the best SP we have ever had - Bundy, Cobb, Cashner, Gausman are 4 legit starters. With a lineup of Jones, Machado, Mancini, Schoop and Trumbo (to some degree), those are 4-5 legit bats. 

 

Brach, ODay Givens isnt the worst bullpen around. 

 

I didnt think we would contend but I thought we'd be ahead of the rays by seasons end. 

 

Im amazed. You saw a below .500 season coming, but not dead last. 

 

Whats Santander doing? Injured? (batting .276 in Bowie) 

[abdcskins]

The thing is our starting pitchers aren't that good. And our bats are cold as ice. Sisco hasn't progressed like we expected. Schoop has fallen off big time. Pretty much every bat has gone cold except Machado and Jones. It's a putrid team.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Just now, abdcskins said:

The thing is our starting pitchers aren't that good. And our bats are cold as ice. Sisco hasn't progressed like we expected. Schoop has fallen off big time. Pretty much every bat has gone cold except Machado and Jones. It's a putrid team.

 

But if you re-played this season again, they wouldn't be historically putrid. There are huge flaws on this team, but many of those flaws also existed last year (.463 winning percentage) and in 2016 (.549) and in 2015 (.500). 

[Spaceman Spiff]

26 minutes ago, abdcskins said:

The thing is our starting pitchers aren't that good. And our bats are cold as ice. Sisco hasn't progressed like we expected. Schoop has fallen off big time. Pretty much every bat has gone cold except Machado and Jones. It's a putrid team.

 

I've been ranting against it for years, but this is a boom or bust offense.  I'd love to see a slashing offense with some more speed, more on base skills and a balanced attack.  No one here can take a walk, no one here can knock a base hit when it matters because everyone in this lineup swings for the fences all the time.  That skill set doesn't age well and it's highly prone to slumps.  

 

26 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

But if you re-played this season again, they wouldn't be historically putrid. There are huge flaws on this team, but many of those flaws also existed last year (.463 winning percentage) and in 2016 (.549) and in 2015 (.500). 

 

They might be.  We're well past the "small sample size" argument.  They're something like 32 and 80 since September, this isn't a fluke, they're just this bad.  It's easy to overlook because it's easier to talk about the pitching and hitting, but the defense is terrible, too.  No one can cover any ground.  The infield is Swiss cheese.  The bullpen, once a strength, is now pretty much a disaster, too.

 

In other words, there's not one facet of the game that this team is good at.  As I said before, this skill-set doesn't age well.  

[TD_washingtonredskins]

5 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I've been ranting against it for years, but this is a boom or bust offense.  I'd love to see a slashing offense with some more speed, more on base skills and a balanced attack.  No one here can take a walk, no one here can knock a base hit when it matters because everyone in this lineup swings for the fences all the time.  That skill set doesn't age well and it's highly prone to slumps.  

 

 

They might be.  We're well past the "small sample size" argument.  They're something like 32 and 80 since September, this isn't a fluke, they're just this bad.  It's easy to overlook because it's easier to talk about the pitching and hitting, but the defense is terrible, too.  No one can cover any ground.  The infield is Swiss cheese.  The bullpen, once a strength, is now pretty much a disaster, too.

 

In other words, there's not one facet of the game that this team is good at.  As I said before, this skill-set doesn't age well.  

 

You're right - they aren't good. For the record, I was ready for them to sell the second Encarnacion's HR was given up in Toronto to end the 2016 season. I just doubt that this group of below-average to average players would really replicate a historically bad season like this. Could I see them going 68-94 or 72-90? Absolutely...but likely losing 110 games? A collection of AAAA players might not even do that. 

 

Maybe the putrid season was a blessing though. If we were 6 games under .500 right now, we might not see enough of a fire sale.