A Superbowl Moral for our OCs

[Burgold]

So, I had flashbacks of McVay and Kyle Shanahan both while watching the second half. The first time I sensed they were in deep trouble was when they lined up in shotgun in a third and one. They wound up getting sacked (I think). The second time was even more obvious. They get to the 20's and a field goal basically seals the game. 1st down run is basically stuffed. So, they line up in shotgun and get sacked, then they line up in shotgun again and get a holding call. If they simply run the ball three times they would have bled the the clock, stayed in field goal range, and won the Superbowl.

 

I have seen Redskins OCs do this so often. They forget about the running game. The Falcons had a 25 point 2nd half lead. They never tried to burn the clock. That's something which has killed us so many times with Kyle Shannahan and with McVay too. It's easy to blame the DC and the defense, but when you have that kind of lead... how do you abandon the run entirely. On that last drive most of all. The game was theirs and they stupided it away.

 

Sure, the passing game is what got them there, but the running game is what wins you the game. Cavanaugh. Gruden. Learn from this. Learn from our own mistakes (even though we rarely built that big a lead) RUN THE BALL! RUN THE BALL! RUN THE BALL!

[TheDoyler23]

All they needed to do was run the ball and kick a FG to go up 11. Would have been a two possession game with less than 3 minutes left. So dumb. 

[gooseneck]

What TheDoyler23 said

 

[TheCoach22]

My buddy, who I converted to a Skins fan about 15 years ago, was just saying the same thing about going up 11 (and running clock). It is going to be lost in the narrative of Brady, Bill and the Pats (rightfully so), but Lil'Shanny owns a lot of the blame for his playcalling after the Jones catch.

 

Brady is the GOAT, without a doubt. I find myself having a very hard time hating the Pats as much as some do. If we don't win the SB, I pretty much just root for the Pats to win it because then it plays out like it should.

 

The old hypothetical is would you rather lose the Super Bowl or never get there... usually hard to answer. Tonight I'd rather be anything but an Atlanta fan. That one is going to hurt a long time. 

[justice98]

I agree, they should've run it and burned the clock and protected the FG. Running it doesn't necessarily mean there won't be a holding call, but they could've lived with the sack, the penalty was the killer.

[hail2skins]

Consider this: the last time the Falcons made the SB, they played the Vikings in the NFCCG, who were up 7 and Gary Anderson, who hadn't missed all year, missed a makeable FG that would've put them up 10 late.  He missed, and the Falcons tied it in regulation and won it in OT.

 

Bryant was 34-37 in FGs. Granted, he kicks in a dome at home, and one of the misses was in the 30-39 range, but still. Of course if they run and they wind up missing it, Kyle is grilled for being too conservative, but I think at that point you take your chances running the ball, eating clock (or forcing the Pats to use timeouts) and trusting Bryant.

 

Where does this rank in single-game collapses in championship games in sports history?

[hail2skins]

Pats make it 28-9 with 2 mins left in 3rd quarter. Onside kick fails, ATL has it 2nd and 1 at Pats 32......don't score.

 

ATL has it 2nd and 2 and then 3rd and 1 at own 36 with 8.5 mins left up 28-12, and pass and Ryan is hit and fumbles.

 

Then have it at NE 22 with 4 mins left and lose a yard, then sacked, then hold.

 

Then after Pats tie it, well, ATL can drive down and use timeouts......oops, they have none.  Plus they bring the kickoff out and it gets stuffed at the 11.

[Rufus T Firefly]

It's not all about run vs pass. On the Ryan sack-fumble, it was 3rd and 1. He dropped back to set up for a bomb. On the series from clinching  FG range there was a sack and a hold again going for deep passes. And then the 3rd and forever play where 7-8 yards still gets you the yards to set up a clinching FG, it was an out route to a covered WR.

 

Where the heck are the screen passes? How about a slant? A hook? You're the "Assistant Coach of the Year" with the league's number 1 offense and you don't have any plays to pick up 2 yards, or 7 yards on 3rd and 33? 

[NoCalMike]

Yeah I think everyone will point to THAT drive as the one that kept the door opened for the Pats.  The Pats took advantage of every opportunity they had in the 2nd half, but the lead Atlanta had it is pretty incredible that they couldn't manage a field goal the rest of the way out.  

 

The play calling was classic Shanahan (and McVay to be honest), the commentators will spend at least half the game gushing in amazement about their play design and innovation, but it's like they just can't settle themselves down in the crunch time situations where the huge plays aren't necessary. I said from day one when it came to Kyle Shanahan I absolutely loved his scheme and designs for offense, but I was less than impressed with his actual play calling in a lot of game time situations. Sometimes these hot shot coordinators need to realize that simply getting a 1st down is good enough for the moment.

[hail2skins]

And what will be lost is that in OT, after a pass interference penalty that set them up at the 2, Brady tried to do his best Russell Wilson impersonation. Luckily for him, the ball was dropped by the defender.

[Rufus T Firefly]

It turned out to probably not mean much in the end, but there was also a play on that crucial Atlanta drive that was mind-boggling. After the big pass to Jones, they ended up snapping the ball with 19 seconds left on the play clock. You're up 8 with 5 minutes left, in position to make it a two score game, why the hell are you giving your opponent an extra 18 seconds? That's just freaking amateur hour.

[Warhead36]

K I S S

 

keep it simple stupid

 

I like Shanahan and McVay but sometimes they overthink things

 

Football is a much simpler game than people like to admit

[hail2skins]

22 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

It turned out to probably not mean much in the end, but there was also a play on that crucial Atlanta drive that was mind-boggling. After the big pass to Jones, they ended up snapping the ball with 19 seconds left on the play clock. You're up 8 with 5 minutes left, in position to make it a two score game, why the hell are you giving your opponent an extra 18 seconds? That's just freaking amateur hour.

I'd have to go back and look, but the play to Jones happened with under 5 minutes left and he went out of bounds.  Was the play clock stopped after that or did they restart it before the Falcons next play?  ESPN's play-by-play has the Falcons next play run at 4:40, which is when Jones made his catch, so I'm thinking the clock had been stopped.

[Rufus T Firefly]

13 minutes ago, hail2skins said:

I'd have to go back and look, but the play to Jones happened with under 5 minutes left and he went out of bounds.  Was the play clock stopped after that or did they restart it before the Falcons next play?  ESPN's play-by-play has the Falcons next play run at 4:40, which is when Jones made his catch, so I'm thinking the clock had been stopped.

Not 100% that it was that play, Maybe it was after the big Freeman play, but I know there was a play they snapped too fast. 

[hail2skins]

Yeah Rufus looks like the Freeman big play was snapped with 5:53 left and the next with 5:18 left, so between the time it took for the Freeman play to run, that was probably it.

[PartyPosse]

Maybe it was because they didn't want to risk NE throwing the challenge flag?

[Rufus T Firefly]

10 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Maybe it was because they didn't want to risk NE throwing the challenge flag?

There was nothing really challengeable. And they had plenty of time to challenge anyway.

[NickyJ]

Any time someone brings up Kyle being a great OC that's revolutionizing the sport, I am going to say "shotgunned out of field goal range" as loudly and obnoxiously as I can until that person learns to shut his mouth.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Good point, totally agree.

[gooseneck]

what NickyJ said

[Rufus T Firefly]

42 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

Any time someone brings up Kyle being a great OC that's revolutionizing the sport, I am going to say "shotgunned out of field goal range" as loudly and obnoxiously as I can until that person learns to shut his mouth.

I mean, it's impossible to overstate this. You run the ball two more times, the Pats call TOs, you kick a FG. You're up 11 with about 3:30 left. The Patriots have one TO left. The game is not completely over, but they need to score quickly and HAVE TO recover an onsides kick. Any coach, anywhere, at any level of football has to take those odds. If the D and STs lose it from there, so be it. But the chances are  astronomical.

 

Even if you decide to throw a pass to go for the jugular, it's gotta be a quick hitter, maybe a rollout. You have to play it safe, not allow yourself to lose big yardage. That couldn't be more imperative. 

 

The one thing you can't do, the one way your offense can blow the game is to play it the way Kyle did. He absolutely gave away a Super Bowl that his team had in it's claws. He had already had a pretty miserable second half, but still his team had the game. Just don't give it away.

 

And he gave it away. It was not giving the ball to Marshawn Lynch times 100.

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/230700/falcons-produce-a-choke-job-for-the-ages-in-super-bowl-li

[gooseneck]

What Rufus T Firefly said

[hail2skins]

The sack fumble on Ryan on 3rd and 1 also was of course huge, especially when you consider some of the Pats drives to that point:

 

9 play, 41 yards, 5:20 (ends in punt)

5 play, 53 yards, 2:28 (ends in fumble)

12 play, 52 yards, 6:27 (ends in pick 6)

11 play, 52 yards, 2:19 (ends in FG, but 2 min warning and 2 timeouts used)

13 play, 75 yards, 6:25 (ends in TD)

12 play, 72 yards, 5:07 (ends in FG)

 

Those drives don't suggest a team with a quick-strike capability. Even if you get stuffed on 3rd and 1 at your own 35, you're punting the ball to the Pats with less than 8 minutes left, and you probably have them inside their own 20 needing two TD to tie. Granted, on the tying TD, the Pats drove 91 yards in 2.5 minutes (with the two-minute warning used), but still.  Atlanta and Kyle screwed this game up in a huge way.

 

 

 

[TSO]

1 hour ago, gooseneck said:

What Rufus T Firefly said

 

1 hour ago, gooseneck said:

what NickyJ said

 

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[kleese]

Eh, the one thing people always say is "dont get conservative" and play to bleed the clock. I generally agree unless it is truly a situation where you can run the clock out. After the on side kick it was late in third and they were up 28-9 with great field position. They ran it on first and got 9 yards. Then a holding call pushed it to 2nd and 11. I'm fine throwing the ball from that point on. Let Ryan make plays. He winds up getting sacked, but I have no issue with those calls to throw it. 

 

As for us, I'll go contrarian and see we ran the ball TOO much this season. We weren't good at it and only seemed to have success when we were downhill and rolling in the passing game-- a game Iike Philly at home where Kirk was rolling early and then we were able to then find holes in the run game as well. 

 

But I felt we ran it too often "just because." There were games where I was like "just throw it 90% of the time." I felt like every time we ran the ball this year we were giving the defense a break from having to defend our real weapons. I especially thought in the Giants loss that we went into a conservstic shell early forcing the run game. 

 

I do do agree that I loathe the 3rd and short shotgun formation and I'd like to see more runs on third and short. Seems like on 3rd and 1 we either pass out of shotgun or go jumbo and telegraph the run. I'd like to see a middle ground where we either run out of a "normal" formation or throw from under center. Our third and short play calling this year was just so predictable.