Be careful what you wish for. . .

[s0crates]

Browsing ES this week, I cannot help but notice that many of us want the Redskins to make drastic changes. We have threads about letting Kirk walk, letting McVay go, firing Barry, letting Garcon and/or Jackson walk, not having confidence in Scott McCloughan, not having confidence in Gruden, etc. Not that Gruden, GMSM, Kirk, Barry, or anybody else on this team is above criticism after a somewhat disappointing 8-7-1 season, I certainly have my share of complaints, but I think we're getting a bit carried away with the "fire everything!" mentality here.

 

This morning I woke up thinking of the Redskins recent history of "fixing" teams that weren't broken. The 1999-2000 Redskins had a pretty good team with a productive Norv Turner offense led by Brad Johnson and Stephen Davis. But we weren't quite there yet, so we made drastic changes, brought in every big name free agent including Jeff George, fired Norv before the 2000 season was over, let Davis walk, and let Brad Johnson go win a Super Bowl for somebody else. How did "fixing" Norv's team work out? In 2001 we started out 0-5, and rebounded to finish 8-8 under Marty. A pretty good coaching job there, but not good enough, so we brought in the old ball coach to be the next big thing. Remember Osaka? Did "fixing" Marty's team work out? In 2005 Joe Gibbs had one of the best Redskins teams in years, but we thought his offense wasn't good enough in the modern NFL, so we brought in Al Saunders and the 500 page playbook to help him. How did "fixing" Gibbs' offense work out for us?

 

Before we go wishing that Dan Snyder fire everybody and replace them with the next big thing, maybe we should be careful. This team has put together back-to-back winning seasons for the first time in well over a decade, and if history is any indication, any changes we do make in an attempt to fix things could very well be changes for the worse. If I'm to choose between making drastic changes like firing coaches and letting our big free agents walk or staying the course, then put me down for staying the course. This team is not great, but they are pretty good, and pretty good is something we haven't had much of in the past two decades. I don't think blowing it up is the right move.

 

Those of you wishing we would fire half the staff and gut half the roster should be careful what you wish for. Let's not make better the enemy of pretty good as we have almost every other time we've had pretty good teams under Snyder's tenure. I'm not saying we should settle for pretty good or lower our expectations, I want to be great too. I just think the path forward is building on the success we have had, not hitting the reset button and starting over.

[thamajinforte]

if Garcon AND djax both leave, i feel like it will have a much bigger effect on the offense than people would be willing to believe, although we also have no idea until we see it lol

[rdskn4eva]

Yea, we dont need drastic changes on offense at all.  

 

Defense is another story.  That needs a complete revamp.

 

Offense, take a scalpel to it - tweak some stuff here and there.

 

Defense, bring the sledge hammer and some dynamite.

[zCommander]

It is being reported on 106.7 The Fan that Garcon won't be back.  I am hoping it is not true. 

[JSSkinz]

8 minutes ago, zskins said:

It is being reported on 106.7 The Fan that Garcon won't be back.  I am hoping it is not true. 

Supposedly Garcon is firm at $7.6 mil a year if we want him so I think Keim assumes/has info that we don't value him at that number.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just because he's firm at 7.6M doesn't mean any other team is going to give him that. 

 

 

[Hail2theSkins24]

I'd be more than happy to get Garçon at 3yr/$23 mil

[rdskn4eva]

I think he is worth that.  Dude is a beast of a WR and clutch when we need a big catch

[LetThePointsSoar]

I agree with the OP in general, other than Joe Barry.   I'm all in for continuity, but every single day that goes by with Joe Barry still here is chasing bad money with more bad money in my opinion.  He's had his opportunity and hasn't shown enough to deserve the chance to prove us wrong.  Cut losses and move on. 

[Dumbsheet]

Ok, I'll stop being goofy for one second. As a Cowboys fan, I'd actually rather you guys bring back DeJax and not Pierre.  Pierre scares me more, and it's not just because he has that funny thing under the C in his last name.

[DM72]

The elephant in the room is Doctson's health. A healthy Doctson is going to be better than Garçon.

[Rattlesnake88]

Just now, Dumbsheet said:

Ok, I'll stop being goofy for one second. As a Cowboys fan, I'd actually rather you guys bring back DeJax and not Pierre.  Pierre scares me more, and it's not just because he has that funny thing under the C in his last name.

Then what is it? His opossum mouth guard? 

[rdskn4eva]

3 minutes ago, Dumbsheet said:

Ok, I'll stop being goofy for one second. As a Cowboys fan, I'd actually rather you guys bring back DeJax and not Pierre.  Pierre scares me more, and it's not just because he has that funny thing under the C in his last name.

 

I agree.  Jackson is explosive but he gets hurt too much and can be shut down completely.  Garcon is a beast.  Dude plays like it's the 4th pre season game and he's on the bubble, every play.  Garcon and Crowder both play with passion.  Jackson, not so much.

[Garcon More Wine]

keep staff except joe barry.

 

pay kirk

 

pay garcon

 

pay defensive free agents

 

get shawn lavao replacement

 

draft defenders

 

win division

[Tsailand]

5 minutes ago, DM72 said:

The elephant in the room is Doctson's health. A healthy Doctson is going to be better than Garçon.

 

That's delusional.

 

23 minutes ago, jschuck12001 said:

Supposedly Garcon is firm at $7.6 mil a year if we want him so I think Keim assumes/has info that we don't value him at that number.

 

How many years, how much guaranteed?  I think that is reasonable.  Only thing that would make me hesitate is the Kirk situation -- I don't like paying Garcon that much for McCoy to throw to him in 2018.

[JSSkinz]

35 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

That's delusional.

 

 

How many years, how much guaranteed?  I think that is reasonable.  Only thing that would make me hesitate is the Kirk situation -- I don't like paying Garcon that much for McCoy to throw to him in 2018.

 

Seems fair which makes it a head scratcher as to why we wouldn't re-sign him.

 

If we re-sign KC over 25% of our total cap space will be tied up in just 2 players (Norman & KC) so maybe that's part of the reason.

[Wildbunny]

Amen to the OP.

ES is quite demoralizing lately and I don't buy into the fire everyone stance that seems to grow on many.

 

First I don't see the point in Firing Gruden or Scot. They've been doing their job, and Gruden as shown he can improve between season 1 & 2. So I believe he'll acknowledge the mistakes and correct them. Same thing for Scot.

 

Both coordinators are different stories. McVay is being dragged by other team for a HC gig. I believe it's too early for the kid, but if that ever happen I think we could make up for it quite easily.

Barry is another story. He's been dealt a bad hand, especially this year. He's part of the problem in our mess that is our D, obviously, but I doubt firing him is the sole solution. You also have to upgrade the personnel on the department. Now, if he's on the move, I'd rather have a young positional coach instead of an old  know commidity DC. Believe that's @Rattlesnake88 that mentioned him in another thread: Mike Vrabel. Would love that kind of move.

 

My main gripe here goes to Gruden, and I love the guy. For whatever reason they thought they could field a better team by rotating players on position that aren't natural to them. Such as Paul to FB if needed, Hood or Baker at NT, stuff like that. They thought about converting guys here and there to solve the FS position.

That philosophy have mainly failed big time this year, so I hope they correct that.

 

Regarding players? Some will leave, that's a given. And if Garcon wants 8M or so, we can afford that I think. When I see some of the contract the youngsters got last year. Garcon at 8M/year is nearly a bargain to me. DJax? Would welcome him back, but, as for Pierre it's up to what they want to do.

 

Kirk. Pay the man, that's a no brainer here. So what if he isn't Brady or Rodgers? If the guy is good to have into contention every year, pay him. I don't doubt it'll be done before FA.

 

And for those to come? Well I expect Scot to start looking into B grades players instead of C or D players that may, if the context is right and Mars, Saturn and Proxima Centaury are aligned, turn into good players. But somehow, maybe it's due to SIP and his chat with Scot, I believe it have been the plan all along, reset the roster with football guys. Then to bring in the game changer type of guys.

[skins island connection]

 All I want to see is Barry gone.

 If we'd be so lucky as to get Wade here, i'd be jumping for joy. The emotional boost this team would get across the board by getting a defense that works as a cohesive unit and can make plays is astronomical. It would have an effect, a positive one, on the offense, because it would take so much pressure off the offense to not feel they have to score on most every play in order to have a shot.

 

 Hec, if getting rid of him meant we'd have to give Cousins that big contract, i'd give Kirk the keys to the Brinks truck.

[Warhead36]

$7.6 Mil per year is perfectly fine for Garcon. He's a clutch, tough, reliable, competitive as hell WR who just put put up 1000 yards. I'd happily pay him that.

[ginsu101]

Garcon is more than just tough.  Him and Reed (when healthy) run violently.  I hope Garcon is a a Redskin next year.

[RFK Lives]

Agree, on Garcon and the tough description.  You want a team to establish an identity and that starts with the players and the way they play.  I thought Garcon and Crowder showed urgency on the field Sunday, they were in the minority unfortunately.  If we hitch our wagon to an unproven first round pick to replace Garcon, I will have certainly overestimated GMSM's talents.

[srtman04]

For the love of God, Redskins pay Garcon his 7.6mill he's asking for!!!!!!!!!!

[Redskins Reparations]

Great post s0crates! I am finally somewhat stable after Sundays devastating loss and I needed this post to remind me that our Washington Redskins are on the right path. 

[Dissident2]

I have some big problems with Gruden, but to fire him after these last two seasons would be lunacy.

 

As for Garcon, they need to find a way to keep him. He is exactly the kind of player we need much more of. An absolute beast who plays with passion and ferocity. One of the few who really came to play on Sunday. 

 

I'd take him any day of the week over Jackson. Jackson has rare talent and speed, but he clearly has a hired gun mindset. I realize most in this business are that way these days, but Jackson more than most, imo. He strikes me as someone who couldn't give a crap about the team's history, the D.C. area, the tradition, etc. Garcon has fought and bled for this team for years now. He deserves his payday here if it's possible to make it happen. 

 

After emotions have cooled a bit, I realize we were only one easy FG away from being in the playoffs. Or maybe one less Matt Jones fumble near the goal line. Gotta keep things in place and really fortify that defense. 

 

Clearly Kirk is the wildcard here. His performance Sunday was really even worse than the loss itself, and its consequences potentially more far-reaching. Because of that performance, one Cooley called the worst of his career as a starter while characterizing him as "afraid" on a variety of plays, we are all back to the doubts of whether or not this is the guy. That sucks a lot worse to me than losing that game. I'm also really beginning to think that Kirk doesn't even WANT to be here. 

 

Whatever happens, next year should really answer a lot of questions about Gruden AND SM. 

[Rex Tomb]

55 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

McVay is being dragged by other team for a HC gig. I believe it's too early for the kid, but if that ever happen I think we could make up for it quite easily.

 

I would love to see Gruden take over the offensive playcalling (a la Mike McCarthy), rather than having a 3 headed approach between Gruden, McVay, and Callahan.  Gruden is an offensive mastermind, and I think he'd be really good for getting our offense over the hump in the Red Zone particularly. 

 

McVay is too cute for his own good in terms of play calling, and it really cost us - especially in this last game against the Giants.  He's also not imaginative enough to scheme up an offense that will attack a defense's weaknesses consistently enough.  He may be a great offensive coordinator one day, but I don't think he's there yet and I'm done having him coordinating our team.  We have way too much talent on that side of the ball to waste it the way we have this past season, in particular.