WP: The U.S. is now at wildfire preparedness level 5 — the highest there is

[PCS]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/08/14/the-u-s-is-now-at-wildfire-preparedness-level-5-the-highest-there-is/

 

 

 

 

The U.S. is now at wildfire preparedness level 5 — the highest there is

 

 

 

 

Back in June, the federal government was very worried that a bad wildfire season might be coming, exacerbated by drought throughout much of the west.

And now it has come to pass: On Thursday, the so-called National Preparedness Level for wildfires was elevated to 5, the highest there is, meaning that “geographic areas are experiencing major incidents which have the potential to exhaust all agency fire resources.” Indeed, large fires are now burning in 11 states, including 12 in Oregon and 14 in California.

[Forest Service sounds the alarm about sharply rising wildfire costs]

“Given the continuing hot and dry weather and the increase in fire activity in the western US, the decision to move to Preparedness Level 5 depicts the complexity that fire managers are encountering to assure that adequate firefighting resources are available for protection of life, property and our nation’s natural resources,” says the National Interagency Fire Center.

Overall, 6,471,748 acres have burned across the U.S. so far in 2015, well ahead of the 10 year average for this time of year. Last week the U.S. Forest Service released a new report saying that the costs of fighting wildfires is spiking and consuming an ever larger percentage of the agency’s budget — projected to be over 50 percent of it this year.

 

 

*Click Link For More* 

 

Took a look at this site,and the map is sobering. Downright sobering actually. 

 

 

http://www.arcgis.com/apps/PublicInformation/index.html?appid=0c12ac1e89c24075a2be145f4db6caf5

 

 

 

We had a good sized one about 25 miles from here late June and last month. Amazing to see just how fast these things can grow. Scary actually. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[China]

Interactive map of US wildfire locations, perimeters, fire potential areas, global burn areas, wind conditions, and precipitation via streaming data from NIFC, GeoMAC, NHSS, MODIS, METAR/TAF, and the USDA Forest Service, Fire Modeling Institute

[PCS]

Yep. Esri. Wildlandfire's map incorporates that into their map too. Modis hotspots work pretty good. If it picks up 2 or more hotspots in a small area,there's a good chance of a fire. Watched that happen yesterday as a matter of fact. One near central Nevada and,sadly,one near the back door of Yosemite,(that one grew pretty fast).   

[Jumbo]

It's been rough out here. Some folks lose their lives fighting these fires. 

[sacase]

I live here in San Diego, and its getting a little worrisome. I know there is a large one over at Camp Pendalton. Another small one sparked up in Poway but was quickly put out. Started because someone blew a tire and the sparks from the rim started the fire. Only burned 2 acres, but it could have been really bad as it was close to populated areas. These past couple days it has been REALLY hot and drip, it was 98 at 1030 this morning.  

[TheGoodBits]

DC area has had a weird summer. Obviously the mid Atlantic and northeast don't have the wildfire problems that the west has, but the weather has certainly been strange. We had one of the wettest Junes on record, and I'm not sure that it's really rained since then. It's been weeks since we had even the slightest amount of rain, and all of my grass is dead or dying now (didn't really pay attention to its watering needs for awhile because of how much rain we got in early summer).

Edit- I should clarify that the above observations are limited to my backyard. The area as a whole has seen a number of your typical summer tstorms lately, but for some reason they keep missing me the past couple weeks.

[LD0506]

If I may, kudos to all fighting these fires. We have a friend that works for the county here out in CA, hoping he stays safe.

[PeterMP]

We're spending a $100 million dollar a week fighting forest fires.

 

http://www.kaaltv.com/article/stories/s3880055.shtml

 

If only we could identify things that were causing the increase in (large) forest fires.  hmm

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/05/business/energy-environment/wildfires-and-climate-change.html?_r=0&module=ArrowsNav&contentCollection=Energy%20%26%20Environment%20&action=keypress&region=FixedLeft&pgtype=article

 

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

[twa]

hmm, is AGW responsible for the super El nino that is gonna bring a bunch of moisture in?

 

we could relocate folk and let it burn like they used to.....natures way of forest management

[PeterMP]

hmm, is AGW responsible for the super El nino that is gonna bring a bunch of moisture in?

 

we could relocate folk and let it burn like they used to.....natures way of forest management

 

First, let's see if the super El Nino forms and it brings a bunch of moisture.

 

But not, as far as I know it isn't.

 

But realistically larger forest fires in the western US have been increasing since the 1980s even though over that period of time we've had a better understanding of forest fires and spent more money and effort to prevent them (recently that has gone backwards a bit due to the recession and the money needing to be spent to fight them.)

 

Realistically as our knowledge of forest fire prevention and efforts have increased on the longer time scale forest fires have increased.

 

Over that same period of time much of the western has become drier and hotter (as the world as a whole has become hotter).

 

http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_27282528/new-report-2014-was-warmest-year-ever-recorded

 

And certainly one possibility is to move the people, but that has costs associated with it too.

 

Are you really going to abandon all of the infrastructure (roads, bridges, sewers, electric lines, ect) built to support those people?

[tshile]

DC area has had a weird summer.

yeah... i've had a ridiculous summer fixing equipment and ISP issues from these storms. way way way more than usual

 

Are you really going to abandon all of the infrastructure (roads, bridges, sewers, electric lines, ect) built to support those people?

 

Depends... how many times do you have to rebuild before you've exceeded the cost of relocating?

 

Also - who's paying for it?

[PCS]

It's been rough out here. Some folks lose their lives fighting these fires. 

 2 so far. Very rough on these folks out there. 

 

If I may, kudos to all fighting these fires. We have a friend that works for the county here out in CA, hoping he stays safe.

Indeed kudos. The Washington fire outside of Markleeville Ca.,was one that was about 25 or so miles from where I live. I watched that one for awhile. It was nearly 100% contained when it was time for the annual Death Ride. Markleeville hosts this monster bike race and it's a major income source for that little town,(don't blink a couple of times small). The Boy Scout troop my step son's are in were asked to work the lunch station again this year so we went there,(with a few other troops),to do so. Fire went right through where we normally camp and camped again this year. Anyway,we are set up Friday afternoon and the supply truck comes in. Driven and worked by members of the Alpine Fire district. These guys had been fighting the fire and on structure protection just a week before this and here they were,volunteering their time for this event. Pretty cool.

[PCS]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/18/us/western-states-wildfires/

 

 

 

 

Western wildfires: Soldiers to help battle infernos

(CNN)You know the infernos are out of control when 25,000 firefighters aren't enough to stop them.

Now soldiers will join the ranks of firefighters as almost 100 raging wildfires continue burning in 10 Western states.

About 200 active duty military personnel will help battle blazes in Western states, the National Interagency Fire Center said. It's the first time soldiers have fought wildfires since 2006.

About 95 fires have destroyed hundreds of homes and scorched 1.1 million acres in Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana, California, Nevada and Colorado, the center said.

The soldiers will handle "quiet parts of the fire," center spokesman Ken Frederick said.

"That's important because it frees up our more experienced crews to handle more complex dangerous fire situations," he said. Soldiers "could be mopping up, watching for and waiting to put out spot fires and digging fire lines."

The soldiers will come from the 17th Field Artillery Brigade, 7th Infantry Division at Joint Base Lewis-McChord in Washington -- one of the worst-hit states.

Active duty soldiers have been used to fight wildfires 35 times since 1987, the National Interagency Fire Center said.

 

*Click Link For More* 

[PCS]

 

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/western-wildfires/scores-giant-fires-threaten-overwhelm-western-crews-n412731

 

 

 

 

Three Firefighters Killed in Washington as Wildfires Spread Across West

Three firefighters were killed and four others were injured Wednesday afternoon in central Washington fighting one of the more than 100 wildfires burning more than 1.1 million acres in the West, authorities told NBC News.

The firefighters were killed when winds shifted unexpectedly near the towns of Twisp and Winthrop and turned back on crews fighting a small new fire, Okanogan County Sheriff Frank Rogers said. The firefighters were involved in a vehicle accident when the fire overtook them.

All residents of both towns — almost 1,000 people — were ordered to evacuate immediately.

 

 

*Click Link For More*

[PCS]

Just when things started to settle down a bit,it got nasty in a hurry. The Valley fire north of Santa Rosa started yesterday afternoon at about 10-40 acres. It's now at 40,000 and it pretty much wiped out 2-3 towns. Middletown Ca,(which was evacuated just before the fire got there),went dry during the fire. Firefighters had no water from hydrants to fight the fire with. Periscope videos of the town during the fire. 

 

http://katch.me/EPN564/v/7529e2c5-9714-3b31-b0aa-805f0e674956

 

 

 

http://katch.me/EPN564/v/ff0fb8e6-25d8-33bc-9e68-b5f9477ae72d

 

4 firefighters were injured with 2nd degree burns yesterday with that one.

 

The Butte Fire  West of Sacramento has really gotten big and may have burned as many as 65 homes and cabins. 

 

The Rough fire farther South,continues to spread and appears to be taking out chunks of Sequoia National Monument and Sequoia National Forest as well as getting into Kings Canyon National Park.   Getting close to one or two of the Redwood groves

 

I live about 3-6 hours from these and the smoke is dense even here. 

[Special K]

Our family only had to evacuate our place on the Klamath River only once this summer; that goes into the win column during this drought.  

 

All cynical remarks aside, God bless all the firefighters from around the country who are risking everything to help us.  A firefighter from the midwest died fighting a major fire one county east of mine.  Absolutely heart wrenching to hear these stories.  

 

We're spending a $100 million dollar a week fighting forest fires.

 

http://www.kaaltv.com/article/stories/s3880055.shtml

 

If only we could identify things that were causing the increase in (large) forest fires.  hmm

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/05/business/energy-environment/wildfires-and-climate-change.html?_r=0&module=ArrowsNav&contentCollection=Energy%20%26%20Environment%20&action=keypress&region=FixedLeft&pgtype=article

 

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Or maybe rabid environmentalists could start letting our loggers clear forests again...hmm

[bcl05]

http://gawker.com/man-films-chilling-escape-from-california-wildfire-1730700111

 

That footage is as scary as anything I've seen in a while.  

[Special K]

http://gawker.com/man-films-chilling-escape-from-california-wildfire-1730700111

 

That footage is as scary as anything I've seen in a while.  

Wow, they waited WAY too long to evacuate, thank goodness they didn't get killed.  While the footage is crazy, what strikes me most about the video is the stupidity of the people who filmed it.  I will never understand people who don't pay attention to or heed the warnings about wildfires.  These things can move extremely fast and switch directions on you in an instant, they definitely aren't something to screw around with and wait too long to get out of because you're "PACKING."

[PCS]

No kidding. I was reading the thread about this on the wildland fire forums,and several of the firefighters were,needless to say,stunned at how fast this fire,(Valley Fire),moved. Example. At 14:10 the fire is announced on the board. 10 acres. Request for more equipment. At 14:52 the fire is reported at 200 acres. At 15:02 the fire is reported at 400 acres and at 15:45 air attack says they're losing a spot fire and to evacuate Middletown. At 17:51,the fire is reported as being 10,000 acres. In....credible and frightening. I edited in a couple of videos above from a fire videographer and photographer who was in the middle of Middletown as the fire swept through it. 

[The Evil Genius]

 

Or maybe rabid environmentalists could start letting our loggers clear forests again...hmm

 

I do think that's a little harsh.  

 

Unless you have some proof that the drought and human error (starting the fires) aren't the main culprits for these fires, I think blaming so earth nuts for being against clearcutting or whatever it's called isn't the most productive use of your furor.

 

To me - this problem should be tackled at the root cause. The thing that is causing the multi-year drought and severe weather changes in the first place.

[PeterMP]

Or maybe rabid environmentalists could start letting our loggers clear forests again...hmm

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/23/opinion/more-logging-wont-stop-wildfires.html?_r=0

 

More Republican garbage talking points:

 

"In the case of the Rim Fire, our research found that protected forest areas with no history of logging burned least intensely. There was a similar pattern in other large fires in recent years. Logging removes the mature, thick-barked, fire-resistant trees. The small trees planted in their place and the debris left behind by loggers act as kindling; in effect, the logged areas become combustible tree plantations that are poor wildlife habitat."

 

The fact of the matter is in many cases it is the more heavily logged forests that ARE burning.

[Special K]

I do think that's a little harsh.  

 

Unless you have some proof that the drought and human error (starting the fires) aren't the main culprits for these fires, I think blaming so earth nuts for being against clearcutting or whatever it's called isn't the most productive use of your furor.

 

To me - this problem should be tackled at the root cause. The thing that is causing the multi-year drought and severe weather changes in the first place.

I'm not talking about clear cutting.  And I don't deny climate change, drought and in the case of some of these fires, human error (or stupidity) has led to the frequency and severity of these fires (although lightening starts most of these fires).  But in CA we aren't allowed to engage in the forest management necessary to produce healthier, more fire resistant forests.  

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/23/opinion/more-logging-wont-stop-wildfires.html?_r=0

 

More Republican garbage talking points:

 

"In the case of the Rim Fire, our research found that protected forest areas with no history of logging burned least intensely. There was a similar pattern in other large fires in recent years. Logging removes the mature, thick-barked, fire-resistant trees. The small trees planted in their place and the debris left behind by loggers act as kindling; in effect, the logged areas become combustible tree plantations that are poor wildlife habitat."

 

The fact of the matter is in many cases it is the more heavily logged forests that ARE burning.

Thank you for the link to an opinion piece...

 

That said, I wasn't very specific in my original post:  I want environmentalists to back off measures aimed at managing our forests.  Logging, particularly salvage logging, that is aimed at clearing the some of high risk fuel in some of our forests is a component of forest management.

[zoony]

I'm not talking about clear cutting.  And I don't deny climate change, drought and in the case of some of these fires, human error (or stupidity) has led to the frequency and severity of these fires (although lightening starts most of these fires).  But in CA we aren't allowed to engage in the forest management necessary to produce healthier, more fire resistant forests.  

Thank you for the link to an opinion piece...

 

That said, I wasn't very specific in my original post:  I want environmentalists to back off measures aimed at managing our forests.  Logging, particularly salvage logging, that is aimed at clearing the some of high risk fuel in some of our forests is a component of forest management.

 

 

Don't you live in that part of California where the fires are?  Hope you and everyone you know is doing allright.

[Special K]

Don't you live in that part of California where the fires are?  Hope you and everyone you know is doing allright.

Thanks   And yeah, I live in the very northern, forested part of California where we typically have lots of fires.  However, my county has been fortunate this year in that we have not had many fires.  Praying for El Nino and a huge snowpack on Mt. Shasta this winter!  

[PeterMP]

I'm not talking about clear cutting.  And I don't deny climate change, drought and in the case of some of these fires, human error (or stupidity) has led to the frequency and severity of these fires (although lightening starts most of these fires).  But in CA we aren't allowed to engage in the forest management necessary to produce healthier, more fire resistant forests.  

Thank you for the link to an opinion piece...

 

That said, I wasn't very specific in my original post:  I want environmentalists to back off measures aimed at managing our forests.  Logging, particularly salvage logging, that is aimed at clearing the some of high risk fuel in some of our forests is a component of forest management.

 

Do you want me to get and quote from their paper for you?

 

And salvage logging doesn't appear to be any better

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/06/070611185236.htm

 

(and while I didn't quote that section, it is actually discussed in the NYT piece I quoted.)  The best way to prevent forest fires from damaged forest (e.g. from a fire or some sort of disease killing trees) is to let them recover naturally- It is really shocking.  Trees/plants have evolved systems without interference from humans that best prevent the occurrence of fires, which kill trees. /sarcasm.

 

And unlike other pests and diseases, fire doesn't evolve.  Left to their own devices, trees/forest actually do a good job of "combating" fires.

 

The problem is our involvement in terms of suppression of fires and things like logging actually.

 

The best way for humans to actually prevent large forest fires is actually to use fire through controlled/prescirbed burns, and while I'm not going to say that EVERY environmentalist supports them (because there are some whacko groups out there that also spout complete garbage), they are widely supported by environmental organizations, including the NWF (http://blog.nwf.org/2015/05/not-all-forest-fires-are-created-equal/), the Sierra Club (http://www.sierraclub.org/policy/fire-management-public-lands), and GreenPeace (http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/environmentalist-what-you-dont-know-about-forest-fires/).

 

The problem becomes doing controlled burns in a effective, safe and ethical manner when you are in the middle of a multi-year drought.  In addition, local property owners tend to be against them due to issues with smoke.  FL had to actually pass a law about controlled burns after the 1998 fires because prior to that the land owners in various areas had pestered the natural resource people enough that they had quit doing controlled burns.  Now the NR people in FL MUST carry out controlled burns based on the law.

 

The idea that any type of logging or logging efforts does anything to reduce forest fires isn't actually supported by the evidence.  It is myth perpetrated by the logging industry and the right in the face of the actual evidence.