kgor93 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I'm a younger fan (hence my username), so I don't remember anything before 04 or so. But I hear a lot of people on here saying the organization went downhill towards a losing way when Synder bought the team. But from looking at the past records, we were bad pretty much from when Gibbs left in 93 on with a record of 54-73-1. So if the Cooke family retained the team, how would things have been different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Not a direct answer to your question, but in one sense this long nightmare under Snyder is in keeping with the history of this franchise, which is marked by pockets of glory interspersed with long stretches of futility. The first years in Boston were mediocre, until 1936/37. Then there were the glory days of the Sammy Baugh era. But starting with the end of World War II, the franchise was a decades long train wreck. Between D-Day and Vince Lombardi's arrival in 1969, the team had a grand total of 2 winning seasons. That's a quarter century of ineptitude. Tragically, St. Vincent died, but George Allen came along to bring the team to excellence with a 7-year run. He left, fortunes dipped a bit under Pardee, and then Jack Kent Cooke hired Bobby and Joe, who ushered in the real Golden Age of Redskins football. Gibbs went off to race cars, and the team sank back into the wilderness. A few decent seasons were sprinkled in with general mediocrity, and the change in ownership brought nothing much more than a carousel of coaches overseeing the depressing circus. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rook Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Well said Dan T.  Of course, "a few decent seasons were sprinkled in with (the) general meritocracy" describes almost all franchises. Skins' fans need to remember this.       The Rook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Well said Dan T. Of course, "a few decent seasons were sprinkled in with (the) general meritocracy" describes almost all franchises. Skins' fans need to remember this. The Rook In the post-Gibbs 1 era, from 1993 to present, 22 years, the Redskins have 2 playoff wins. Now without checking, my guess is that does not describe all - or even most - franchises. That's rarified ineptitude. The Oakland Raiders have more playoff wins during that time frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rskins06 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 This is true, people often forget after Gibbs left, the team was horrible under Petibone and went through the Norv years which weren't good. I believe most fans (me included) don't like the way he came in, he fired Norv when the team was 7-6 and had an opportunity to make the playoffs. He liked Jeff George enough to sign him and push out Brad Johnson who was probably best QB since Mark Rypien. Treated the roster like his own personal Fantasy football league and went after aging veterans. Refused to hire anyone to lead this team (true GM) and acted like he wanted to be just like Jerry Jones, except he was far worse and for years repeated mistake after mistake. He has basically acted like a fan with a lot of money, rather than an owner interested in taking right steps to win. Hopefully with the current FO structure, it is a sign of true change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 The problems started when the Salary Cap era started. We have NEVER been a competitave organization under this structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike42 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 It went downhill in 1997 after Cooke passed away. Maybe it's a coincidence. 1994-1996 rebuilding was working. Went from 3-13 to 9-7 in a 3 year span. We didn't have the most gifted players, but we found the right group of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 This organization has been in the ****ter since Gibbs I. The problems started when the Salary Cap era started. We have NEVER been a competitave organization under this structure.  THIS   ETA:  Aside from some glory years in the 40s, 70s and 80s early 90s, this team has been ****.  I count two 6 year periods.  From like 1938 to 44, from 71 to 77, and then one ten year stretch from 82 to 91. Other than that, the Washington Redskins have sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paloosa Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I recently answered a questions similar to this with a similar answer to Dan T's. Everyone wants to blame Dan Snyder for the futile times of the Redskins. Every coach Dan Snyder had chances to win and unlike some claiming that Dan played GM like Jerry Jones has is not entirely true. He had Vinny Cerrato as the GM most of his ownership in which he drafted some good players but mostly had bad results with his acquiring talent. Poor Trades, Over-The-Hill player signings, and not enough drafting of our own players. From the time of George Allen up to now this team spent most of its time trading away picks and acquiring veterans from other teams to make up its team. Bobby Bethard was a master at finding talent in the late rounds but that was before the Free Agency era. Every other team changed with the times except the Redskins. Plus you have to remember one thing, we as fans think we know better of how to run the team and to evaluate talent. So most of these fans and posters would do some of the same things that Dan Snyder is doing as owner. They can say that they would do a better job and hire the right guys but until you have been in it you never know and that includes me. So when you here glory years and the winning tradition of the Redskins it isn't entirely true even with 5 world championships to the teams credit in which 3 of them being Super Bowl championships under Joe Gibbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Make no mistake, the team was bad (1993-1998) before Dan took over. However Dan has made things much worse and toxic with impatient decisions, splashy FA signings, and a boorish attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 No, the problems did not start when Snyder bought the team, as many posters have alluded to the bad overall record in the six seasons prior to his arrival. But by now Dan has his own 16-year ledger of record, a period almost triple the length of the 1993-98 period. Half of those 16 seasons have resulted in a record of 6-10 or worse. That is pathetic.  Nobody knows how things would've been different if JKC Jr had remained in control. You can certainly make the strong argument that he was far too loyal to Norv, who likely should've been let go sometime during the 0-7 start in '98. But I think Cooke would've maintained a traditional GM-coach structure, instead of the coach-centric one that has prevailed under Snyder until just recently with the hiring of Scot. It would've been difficult to be less successful than Snyder has been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 The problems started when the Salary Cap era started. We have NEVER been a competitave organization under this structure.  Team President Edward Bennett Williams once said of George Allen's spending ways in the pre-cap era "I gave George an unlimited budget, and he exceeded it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 If the team wasn't being sold in 1998 and had remained in Cook Jr's hands for a while; Holmgrem would've been hired after the 1998 season. Â No, the problems didn't start with Dan but Dan Snyder had made it worse and has kept it going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I remember when John Cooke was in charge before the team was sold. My impression was that he was more interested in being the owner in name than anything else. The team was stagnating and things were already heading down hill before Snyder IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50yrSKINSfan Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Problems didn't start when Snyder bought the team. I thought they started when Norv was hired as the great up and coming new head coach. Then JKC got sick and no one could make a decision to fire Norv so he stuck around longer than he should have and the organization suffered all around. We had some shaky drafts around that time with making Desmond Howard a top pick when everyone knew he was overated. Seemed that anything that could go wrong did. Bad snap to loose a playoff game as a example. Then Snyder arrived and he tried to show everyone he could be a NFL genius or the George Steinbrenner of football and we all know he failed. So now we are in a 20 yr slump. There is a lot of luck involved in football. We have had a lot of bad luck but it will not last forever. Believe me, I was here when Lombardi got here so I saw a lot of ups and downs so it can turn around quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015  I was there.    wait....  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gortiz Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 see this post  his was a hostile takeover ...he was a brute, a bull in a china shop, he had no tact, no sense of history, he had no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsFan7 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I agree with a lot of what has been said except the team being bad when Snyder bought them. It was tough sledding after Gibbs 1, true. But Charlie Casserly, despite Norv being a bad head coach, was getting the roster in good spot finally. Trent Green left due to unstable ownership so Casserly brought in Brad Johnson, drafted Champ Bailey, and orchestrated the draft day trade that landed us all of the Saints picks that season and some for the next. That roster was able to win the Division and a playoff game in 1999, and what does Snyder do? He fires Charlie Casserly! Out Bobby Beathard disciple who was part of helping build our teams in the 80's/90's glory days and just helped build a roster that one a division title. Of course the rest is history and had been a series of head scratching personnel mistakes. But I consider Snyder firing Casserly his first and greatest mistake. Perhaps he's actually atoning for it now with the hiring of Scott McCloughan. It took Casserly time to begin righting the ship before he was cutoff. Will Snyder have the patience needed with Scott? We'll see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayAction Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 We had a good QB, a good running back, and a decent OL. Trent Green left because the Skins couldn't commit to a new contract with the estate lawyers running the show. Casserly brought in Brad Johnson and we won the division and advanced to the NFC championship game. Snyder buys the team and immediately causes a QB controversy by bringing in an interception prone QB and forcing Norv Turner to play him. Brad Johnson leaves and eventually wins a Superbowl. Snyder begins his journey of madness and fans suffer for the next 15 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsFan7 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Did not make it to the NFC championship that year. Beat Detroit in the WC round and lost to Tampa Bay 14-13 in the divisional round. Rams beat Tampa in the conf. Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpage520 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Yeah, we haven't even sniffed an NFCCG since 91 lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 In an earlier post in the thread, I mentioned Snyder has 16 seasons under his belt.  Eight of them have been 6-10 or under. One was 7-9. Three were 8-8. The other four were winning seasons (one 9-7, three 10-6).  So Snyder takes over in '99, and gets a 10-6 winning season out of Norv. Then he has the offseason spending spree, and the team falters late that season, mainly due to an ineffective offense and the lack of a reliable placekicker, and goes 8-8. Norv gets fired, which was inevitable. Then he brings in Marty, who goes 0-5 and has Skins nation up in arms. But then the team wins its next five before a choppy finish yields an 8-8 result. Still, we're ready to roll into 2002 with Schottenheimer, right?  Nope.  Firing Marty is still viewed as the most controversial move of Snyder's tenure. Dan's defenders claim that Snyder wanted to bring in a GM in and Marty refused. But I'm searching for this GM that Dan brought in after he fired Marty.  Oh yeah.......Vinny. The guy who was first out the door when Marty came in.  That's the main reason Snyder is viewed in the light he is. Sure, Marty had a bad playoff record in the places he was at before......but at least he regularly made the playoffs. Take those three pre-Spurrier years off the ledger, and now you're looking at nine losing seasons (eight of which were 6-10 or worse) out of 13.  Ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsFan7 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 And had Casserly still been calling the shots all of the above mentioned "head scratching" personnel decisions probably don't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Doesn't matter when it started after so many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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