WT Zac Boyer " Redskins could tilt from Zone running scheme to include Power Running"

[darrelgreenie]

Everything I've read and heard suggests that the running game will be largely unchanged; except for less read-option.

[RandyHolt]

But the horses pulling the sled, were told to get bigger, as hinted to by Gruden on day 1 IIRC.

 

That tells us they will presume be a little less mobile, since the fast cats on earth are not the Ogres. 

 

That tells me it could likely be assumed that Gruden is smart enough to ask them to laterally run less. Or I think at minimum I hope that Gruden watched film and saw what I saw, that the OL were getting attacked and pushed backwards as they moved laterally on our stretches. Did anyone else notice this?

 

Sure assumption is the mother of all ****ups, but I don't think Gruden is going to screw this up.

 

We got 30 pounds heavier at LG. I believe it has been said Kory is up to 310 (help me here) and if so we are 10 pounds heavier at C. Chester is a big boy most want replaced but his potential replacements are all ~10 pounds heavier. Before breakfast at least. Our average weight may bump up 10+ pounds.

 

Morris did good outside, but much more so 2 years ago. I think he was brought down by first contact 6 times in 2012. 2013, he passed 6 within the first few games. It was because he had speed before contact in 2012, he was untouched; he had blockers. He did not forget how to break tackle.  He was on an island on the stretch in 2013, and it got almost completely scrapped. Even the old iron jaw Shanahan saw that and called it far far less often in 2013.

[darrelgreenie]

There is a lot of leaping to conclusions here similar to the assumptions about the 'new 1-gap defense'.

Gruden, McVay and Griffin have all said the running game is the same as last year.

[DC9]

There is a lot of leaping to conclusions here similar to the assumptions about the 'new 1-gap defense'.

Gruden, McVay and Griffin have all said the running game is the same as last year.

 

Gruden's introductory presser:

 

Media:  Are you going to run zone or power or what?

 

Jay:  We are going to run what works.

[RedskinsInFebruary]

I'm of the opinion you can't skrimp and cheat on OL.  Too many regimes have come and gone here in Washington thinking you can.

 

Having said that, despite his failures here, Shanahan has cemented his legacy of ZBS running success.  A smart coach won't ignore the takeaway there.

[DaGoonie55]

I'm fine with either.  In a power system the run is designed to go to a specific point.  Running the ZBS, you run to daylight.

 

I can only see Morris getting better and better chunks of yardage due to his experience looking for somewhere to go.

 

Someone get the icepacks frozen.  The secondary is going to need them.

 

HTTR

[Vanguard]

I'd like to see us stick with what made Alfred successful.

[RG3Hunna]

 

 

On that subject, where does Morris rank 1 to 100 on a break tackle?   I am not sure who is the best in the league (to provide scale) but I would grade Morris 92.

 

Portis would hit you like a ton of bricks but didn't BT. 75 for him.

In my personal opinion I think Marshawn Lynch is #1 when it comes to breaking tackles followed by Adrian Peterson at #2 then Alfred Morris at #3.

 

I've been very impressed at how Alfred Morris breaks tackles because I've seen him before and the guy looks tiny compared to Clinton Portis when I saw him but packs so much power in his legs. 

 

But yea Marshawn Lynch is just an animal at breaking tackles, past 2 years he's been hampered by a back injury but when he's healthy and running hard it's magical to watch. 

 

[jtyler42]

I think this whole ZBS v Power scheme thing is being over thought and kind of blown out of proportion. Let's not forget one of the most famous power run gm proponents our own Joe Jackson Gibbs, had as one of his staple runs: 40/50 Gut, which is basically inside zone in the ZBS system.

[SWFLSkins]

I'm not too concerned for Morris' production, because I watched what he did after he broke past the line, he's a tank. Tough back, YAC, hard to tackle, facing fewer defenders in the box, he isn't as dependent on scheme as some others have been and I don't believe Gruden will throw that away because of some philosophical differences. When you toss in what a humble, team first kinda player he is, I think he'll be fine

 

This thread.....

No Coach is that dumb. To throw away what works, is just asinine, oh wait we have seen it before. But I believe Gruden himself when hired said he would use what works and tweak some other things. This thread is mis-leading and jumps to conclusions based on a writers view.

Gruden's introductory presser:

 

Media:  Are you going to run zone or power or what?

 

Jay:  We are going to run what works.

 

 

I'm of the opinion you can't skrimp and cheat on OL.  Too many regimes have come and gone here in Washington thinking you can.

 

Having said that, despite his failures here, Shanahan has cemented his legacy of ZBS running success.  A smart coach won't ignore the takeaway there.

 Abso=friggin=lootlee. That is exactly right. 

[skinfan2k]

name a ZBS team that has won a recent Super Bowl 

[Mahons21]

Seattle

[LoudMouth12thMan]

Seahawks 

http://www.fieldgulls.com/football-breakdowns/2014/2/18/5394212/seahawks-marshawn-lynch-zone-blocking-scheme-tom-cable

 

 

[RG3Hunna]

name a ZBS team that has won a recent Super Bowl 

lol The two best teams in the entire league (Seahawks, Broncos) run the zone blocking scheme. 

[DogofWar1]

Morris is going to flourish no matter what we do.  If we want him to be a bowling ball, he'll do it.  If we want him to be more focused on finding and hitting the hole after a cut, he'll do it.

 

Morris is a pretty great talent all around, his one weakness is lack of breakaway speed, but in the grand scheme of things that doesn't keep him from being a great franchise back.

 

Getting bigger on the line likely won't hurt our pass protection, and moving more towards a truly hybridized running game where we can do either ZBS or power runs at the drop of a hat, will help us tremendously I think.  It makes it hard for the opponent to get their people in the appropriate positions to catch Morris (and I mean people, not person, because Morris rarely goes down at first contact).  Add in Jackson, Garcon, Roberts, and Reed out wide pulling 5 or so guys away from the running play before the ball is even snapped, and you've got a recipe for 5+ yard carries all day long.

[China]

What the shame was with Portis, was that Gibbs made him pound the ball up inside. You will be Riggo II.

 

Portis went from 205 to probably close to 230, and sucked it up and never complained. He was perhaps our most physical player, right behind Sean Taylor.  Portis went from a finesse back to power back, up between the tackles over and over.

 

Morris is built for this. Portis despite his new found girth didn't rank too high on the break tackle.

 

On that subject, where does Morris rank 1 to 100 on a break tackle?   I am not sure who is the best in the league (to provide scale) but I would grade Morris 92.

 

Portis would hit you like a ton of bricks but didn't BT. 75 for him.

 

 

Believe Morris ranked #1 overall last year in yards after contact for RBs.

 

I think it should also be noted that ZBS running scheme is built to hit the big play, and while Morris YAC might suffer in a power running scheme due to lack of 20+ yard runs.  There will be less rushing plays that gain a yard or less, helps the offense stay on schedule, which cannot be undervalued.

 

 

In my personal opinion I think Marshawn Lynch is #1 when it comes to breaking tackles followed by Adrian Peterson at #2 then Alfred Morris at #3.

 

I've been very impressed at how Alfred Morris breaks tackles because I've seen him before and the guy looks tiny compared to Clinton Portis when I saw him but packs so much power in his legs. 

 

But yea Marshawn Lynch is just an animal at breaking tackles, past 2 years he's been hampered by a back injury but when he's healthy and running hard it's magical to watch. 

 

 

 

I'd like to see stats for those rankings.  The only stats I found for yards after contact were here:

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/12/19/between-the-tackles-part-2/

 

and Alfred Morris was 5th (on inside runs) and not in the top 10 (in outside runs) for yards after contact.

 

I did also find this tidbit:

 

 

Another interesting statistic from PFF is yards after contact, in which McCoy ranks second in the NFL with 703.  That's not something you would initially think, as he seems more like the player who likes to bounce plays outside and avoid contact.

 

But besides Peterson, who ranks No. 1 in that category, no other player in the NFL picks up more yards after first contact than McCoy. 

 

Link

[NoCalMike]

Morris isn't even the prototypical ZBS running back because he lacks the biggest attribute which is the Homerun-breakaway speed.  As good as Morris has been in the ZBS system, imagine if he had the speed to break away from a defense once he made the big cut backs into the wide open lanes. A lot of his 20 yard gains might have been 60+ yd TD runs.

 

Go watch Clinton Portis highlights from his first two seasons in Denver and it will look a lot like Morris other then the fact that Portis had the elite breakaway speed.

 

Morris isn't "slow" but he is definitely more of a "takes 10 yards or so to really build up speed" kind of runner opposed to the cutback-GONE guy.

 

What Morris has made up for lack of breakaway speed over his first two seasons is his brain, awareness and ability to almost always pick the correct lane to cut back into.  

 

I don't want my post to come off like I am not happy with Morris. He has been a bonafied ROCK for for this offense, I just want to point out that I don't think transitioning away from a ZBS (if there is even any truth to that anyway) isn't going to be some kind of big disaster for ALMO!

[Timmy Smith]

No one knows what Gruden will do.  The sportswriters who say we'll switch to a power running game are just placing a bet, and it's probably a good bet: that Gruden will revert to what he's done in the past.  Almost always in the NFL, when there's a head coaching change, the new guy brings in his own system.  

 

Thing about Gruden is, he's still young enough to be innovative and not set in his ways, and he's kept so much of the prior coaching staff.  Time will tell; it always does.

[Laxpunk2006]

Believe Morris ranked #1 overall last year in yards after contact for RBs.

 

I think it should also be noted that ZBS running scheme is built to hit the big play, and while Morris YAC might suffer in a power running scheme due to lack of 20+ yard runs.  There will be less rushing plays that gain a yard or less, helps the offense stay on schedule, which cannot be undervalued.

I'm not sure this is necessarily going to be true.  If you ever listen to Alex Gibbs talk about teaching the ZBS he talks about positive yardage on nearly every play and not getting tackled in the back field.  Great view if you haven't seen it.  He talks about limiting negative runs around 10:00-10:15

 

 

Morris isn't even the prototypical ZBS running back because he lacks the biggest attribute which is the Homerun-breakaway speed.  As good as Morris has been in the ZBS system, imagine if he had the speed to break away from a defense once he made the big cut backs into the wide open lanes. A lot of his 20 yard gains might have been 60+ yd TD runs.

 

Go watch Clinton Portis highlights from his first two seasons in Denver and it will look a lot like Morris other then the fact that Portis had the elite breakaway speed.

I would say vision is the biggest attribute needed for success in a zone scheme.  Terrell Davis was a 4.7 guy.  Olandis Gary was a 4.7 guy.  Mike Bell was a 4.6 guy.  Tatum Bell was a 4.3 guy.   Portis was a 4.3 guy.  Mike Anderson was a 4.6 guy.  Rueben Droughns was a 4.6 guy.  Alfred is a 4.6 guy.

 

Bell and Portis are really the only "homerun" type backs we've seen from Mike Shanahan.  Looking at other zone teams Marshawn Lynch is a 4.47 guy.  Arian Foster is a 4.67.

 

Home run speed is great for a runner in any system but if anything most of the top runners in zone schemes have excelled despite lacking top end speed.  

[jflow78]

Yeah...in which article does it say Gruden wants to transition to a power running game?

I was thinking the same thing.  This is just media speculation.  I don't doubt that we'll use some power running, but "transition from" and using both is a little different, IMO.  

 

I'll say this.  I want to see power running on 4th and 1 or goal line.  Always felt bad for Morris running sideways everytime on the goal line with o linemen who couldn't get any push.

That's more of what I see too.  I expect Gruden to use this offensive line in ways that they can benefit, that means not a straight ZBS, but not straight power all the time either.  This OL is, if nothing else, pretty athletic and MUCH bigger than we were the previous years.  Even Lich is reportable 15-20 pounds heavier and he's at C, so 300 is probably about right.

 

Everything I've read and heard suggests that the running game will be largely unchanged; except for less read-option.

I think believing anything else is just guess-work at this point.  I'm sure there will be heavy use of ZBS and power.

 

This thread.....[jumping to conclusions pic]

True, but you're wrong about one thing.  Spurrier was dumb enough to move away from what was the best part of our offense when he came in.  He even let Stephen Davis go with a few good years left.

 

I'm hoping Chip Kelly has made the same mistake with Desean Jackson.

[MustangSteve]

Gruden is also getting Almo involved in the passing game, which will make this offense a complete nitemare for any defense. Jay Gruden fell into a dream when he signed as head coach of this team, with the right coaching and leadership, the sky is the limit for these Washington Redskins.

[4skins23]

Why change something that worked? 

[Duke]

Yeah, I think Helu will involve more as a pass catcher off the backfield, though Alfred will see a lot more goal line carries.

[Paul Cumberland]

did the topic title change?  'tilt' is a long way from 'will change', but probably still too strong..  not that i'm not expecting to see some power but, as we've heard from gruden, it'll basically be the same..