RonArtest15

***2018-19 NBA Offseason Thread***

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1 hour ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

It's the ****ing truth though.  Hometown boy didn't even entertain a phone call, the King ain't coming here no matter how much Stevie's war and peace post's claim why he should.  I'm fine with being the asshole in here.  Time to grab another beer :pint:

 

Irony or coincidence ? I was having a beer off Providence road when I made that post. hahaha. 

Seriously just one beer. 

 

I'm home now though. Turn up. 

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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

There's a difference that I hope you can find peace in one day.

 

 

Quote

So 4-5 with the Cavs?  That sounds optimistic, and I'm an optimist.

 

 For the love of....

 

2-3, 3-4, whatever, point is he thought he would win more titles, and he never saw GS coming, resulting in 1

Edited by Mr. Sinister

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1 hour ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

The off-season where you all sacrificed your first born childs on having a chance at KD, should be a lesson to you all that you gotta fix **** from the top, before that **** will ever happen.  And I'm not hating, by any means.  But guys, get realistic about your franchise.

 

This part of the story, made the story what it is. 

 

Brett Favre could have moved back to the South. He never did. 

 

I said it back then, I don't expect it, I would be shocked, not going to happen...

The pressure and the friends and family...too much. (For KD...Boogie ... maybe)

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36 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

Libertard

 

This is fun : )

 

 

36 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

 For the love of....

 

2-3, 3-4, whatever, point is he thought he would win more titles, and he never saw GS coming, resulting in 1

 

Not seeing GS signing KD, I don't think anyone wanted to admit that was coming.  This isn't that big a deal, but it came across at first like you thought LeBron felt he could get similar results in Cleveland as he did in Miami (you've clarified rings overall, like even if he left Cleveland again).  I just want to throw out that I don't believe multiple rings in Cleveland was his goal at all, from what he originally said and his actions as of now:

 

Quote

When I left Cleveland, I was on a mission. I was seeking championships, and we won two. But Miami already knew that feeling. Our city hasn’t had that feeling in a long, long, long time. My goal is still to win as many titles as possible, no question. But what’s most important for me is bringing one trophy back to Northeast Ohio.

 

I think he was always going to leave after he did that eventually, more that I think about it.  I really have no idea what this guy wants anymore, he's probably trying to figure that out as we speak.

 

Hypothetical: he wants to bring his talents back to South Beach this offseason, you let him?  GS won his first year back in Cleveland, does not leaving Miami get any different results? Just curious.

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

This is fun : )

 

 

 

Not seeing GS signing KD, I don't think anyone wanted to admit that was coming.  This isn't that big a deal, but it came across at first like you thought LeBron felt he could get similar results in Cleveland as he did in Miami (you've clarified rings overall, like even if he left Cleveland again).  

 

Nah, I was assuming he'd stay in Cleveland, meaning, between Miami and Cleveland, 6-7, with him never leaving Cleveland again.

 

Quote

  I just want to throw out that I don't believe multiple rings in Cleveland was his goal at all, from what he originally said and his actions as of now:

 

I'll point out that in that quote:

Quote

My goal is still to win as many titles as possible, no question.

 

He's literally saying that exact thing. Where I think you misinterpret that is the "One" part. What he's saying is that while he's absolutely there to win multiple titles (which every competitor would be), it being Ckeveland, and understanding the history there, the gravity of simply one  title being won there, is worth a lot more than pretty much every other city in America, and it means a lot to him personally.  Winning titles was it, and there really is no debate to be had in my eyes. You don't make all those trades and signings and say "Hey maybe we can get lucky one of these years, guys"

 

Quote

Hypothetical: he wants to bring his talents back to South Beach this offseason, you let him?  GS won his first year back in Cleveland, does not leaving Miami get any different results? Just curious.

 

I'd haul his luggage. 2014-15 no chance. We were dinosaurs on the perimeter defensively (Danny Green, Patty Mills, etc illustrated that using that system) and at the pg position. 2015 onward hard to say.  With him as the centerpiece, everything else is always easier.

Edited by Mr. Sinister

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@Mr. Sinister  We'll have to agree to disagree on his intentions for Cleveland. 

 

What I saw were multiple win now moves, not building something for the long haul.  At minimum he was going to get one in Ohio, and then go from there, but the bonanza trades this year for the Cavs to get younger was a direct rebuke to LeBron's desires on how to build the team for what he wanted, not what was best for the franchise.  That's the price you pay for having LeBron, he's not there to help with post-LeBron.  Irving was Cleveland's best player before LeBron came back and 7 years younger, and they traded him, that doesn't happen or even get that far without LeBron knowing.

 

Your answers to my hypotheticals don't surprise me, its the respectable, pragmatic approach, **** talkin or not, its all fun and games until rings are on the line.  I'm surprised anyone thought he'd stay in Cleveland if they weren't winning multiple rings.  If he had that level of patience he wouldn't of left Cleveland in the first place, nor Miami.

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15 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

McQueen.... that was you.

 

I think you're misremembering my take on that, because I didn't post in here when the decision happened.  I'm pretty sure it wasn't until that 2011 playoffs that I found the NBA thread and started posting in it.

 

I actually admire LeBron and have usually defended him.  I've always liked his playing style.  I don't dislike his teams the way I disliked the Jordan Bulls.

 

Now if it was a screed about Kobe, I would own up to that.

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Damn, I had too much to drink yesterday :rofl89:

 

Seriously though, I don't want to see you guys go down the "we have a chance for LeBron" path only to be disappointed.  I know KD was different, being the hometown kid, so that would obviously would hit harder than LeBron not entertaining coming to DC.  Wall and Beal, when both are healthy at the same time are a really great back court and fun to watch.  

 

So, let's ask this question to Wiz fans.  Would you rather get LeBron or watch him go to the West?  I know y'all don't have any faith in your GM, which you shouldn't cause he is garbage.  But, LeBron leaving for the West would open up the East more.  Sure the Celtics are going to be really good for a while (or at least they should be) and have a great coach.  Philly is moving along pretty well too.  But if you guys draft a center or sign Boogie (and he stays healthy), if at full strength, would you think you would have a better shot at going to the Eastern conference finals or possibly the NBA finals (based on LeBron no longer being in the East)?

 

I think it would greatly increase your chances.  Of course, Ernie might get extended for the rest of his life should that happen.  

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

Damn, I had too much to drink yesterday :rofl89:

 

Seriously though, I don't want to see you guys go down the "we have a chance for LeBron" path only to be disappointed. 

 

Do ya'll really think all the Wizards posters in here gathered around for suicide punch once he signed with GS?  Most of us saw it coming a mile away, especially in the months leading up to that offseason.  When any of us talk about LeBron to DC, its not a "getting the blunt before the weed" conversation, this is a discussion forum and something we feel like discussing outside our own thread (which we've done a lot of).

 

Quote

So, let's ask this question to Wiz fans.  Would you rather get LeBron or watch him go to the West?

 

I get your question, but not some of the backdrop after that. If LeBron is in the East, that immediately puts on even keel with Boston (once they are healthy) or Philly (no matter what offseason growth they do).  There aren't many places I can see him going in the East, and if he goes West, he'll never get past GS anyway, so its a wash for me unless he goes to Boston or Philly (niether of which I see happening).  We need to do is ignore Wall if he asks for a trade (don't do what Cleveland did with Kyrie).  By time Wall's contract extension is up in 2023, LeBron will be 38 years old.  At the end of the day, the proper way to build a contend we don't trust our GM to hit on enough of them.  LeBron to DC is a sure-fire silver bullet to competitiveness, so we're then 50/50 on getting players around it that puts us over the top for a ring, not 50/50 on even being relevant.

 

Quote

But if you guys draft a center or sign Boogie (and he stays healthy), if at full strength, would you think you would have a better shot at going to the Eastern conference finals or possibly the NBA finals (based on LeBron no longer being in the East)?

 

The Cousins situation has been discussed a lot in our own thread, on paper it makes sense.  The problem is how much money he's going to ask for and what are the odds the other Achilles doesn't pop?  Because we're already over the luxury tax (that's right we're over and knocked out the first round, so will all ya'll saying we should be happy with Ernie please just STFU already), I can see us for most part standing pat and drafting a Big Man that can play the 5 and 4.  We're better off hitting on that in regards to our long-term window then what LeBron would do to us if he came here (which won't be any longer then he stayed in Cleveland his second time).

 

Quote

I think it would greatly increase your chances.  Of course, Ernie might get extended for the rest of his life should that happen.  

 

These two points are in great conflict with each other because they are both true.  I've fought tooth and nail get across clearly that as much as we hate Ernie, getting LeBron would give him God like status in the eyes of Ted.  Ted needs to take what worked with the Capitals and apply it to the Wizards, and we need to be patient enough to not F anything up in the meantime (likely desperately spending that cap money we saved up for KD in one offseason for no GD reason).

 

 

Anyways...

 

 

Edited by Renegade7

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Just now, Renegade7 said:

 

Do ya'll really think all the Wizards posters in here gathered around for suicide punch once he signed with GS?  Most of us saw it coming a mile away, especially in the months leading up to that offseason.  When any of us talk about LeBron to DC, its not a "getting the blunt before the weed" conversation, this is a discussion forum and something we feel like discussing outside our own thread (which we've done a lot of).

 

 

I get your question, but not some of the backdrop after that. If LeBron is in the East, that immediately puts on even keel with Boston (once they are healthy) or Philly (no matter what offseason growth they do).  There aren't many places I can see him going in the East, and if he goes West, he'll never get past GS anyway, so its a wash for me unless he goes to Boston or Philly (niether of which I see happening).  We need to do is ignore Wall if he asks for a trade (don't do what Cleveland did with Kyrie).  By time Wall's contract extension is up in 2023, LeBron will be 38 years old.  At the end of the day, the proper way to build a contend we don't trust our GM to hit on enough of them.  LeBron to DC is a sure-fire silver bullet to competitiveness, so we're then 50/50 on getting players around it that puts us over the top for a ring, not 50/50 on even being relevant.

 

 

The Cousins situation has been discussed a lot in our own thread, on paper it makes sense.  The problem is how much money he's going to ask for and what are the odds the other Achilles doesn't pop?  Because we're already over the luxury tax (that's right we're over and knocked out the first round, so will all ya'll saying we should be happy with Ernie please just STFU already), I can see us for most part standing pat and drafting a Big Man that can play the 5 and 4.  We're better off hitting on that in regards to our long-term window then what LeBron would do to us if he came here (which won't be any longer then he stayed in Cleveland his second time).

 

 

These two points are in great conflict with each other because they are both true.  I've fought tooth and nail get across clearly that as much as we hate Ernie, getting LeBron would give him God like status in the eyes of Ted.  Ted needs to take what worked with the Capitals and apply it to the Wizards, and we need to be patient enough to not F anything up in the meantime (likely desperately spending that cap money we saved up for KD in one offseason for no GD reason).

 

I never said y'all were on suicide watch or anything like that.  But there was a whole lot of hate being spewed towards him when he didn't even take a call from his hometown team.  I just don't want to see any of you guys get your hopes up on something that I think has a closer to 0% chance of happening (just my opinion).  

 

Basically, I was asking if you had the final say on where LeBron goes, would you want him to sign with the Wiz or would you rather him go to the West?  In terms of what you think would give you the best chance to compete for a spot in the conference finals or even the NBA finals.  I think it's safe to assume that if LeBron did go to the Wiz that it immediately gives you a great chance to land a spot in the conference finals and possibly the NBA finals.  

 

But, if LeBron goes West and you manage to upgrade the roster in whatever fashion, how do you think your chances of making the conference or NBA finals are since the east will no longer go through where LeBron plays?  This is all based on the assumption that everyone stays healthy and you are able to upgrade in both the draft and FA.  

 

Not sure if the Ernie comment (being happy with him) was directed at me or not, cause I think he's ****ing clown shoes and needs to be replaced.  In regards to the Caps winning, do you think that hurts the Wizards, when looking at it from the owners perspective?  With those secret contract extensions he gives Ernie, do you think because it took so long for the Caps to finally win it all, that he is going to be even  more patient with the Wiz and EG?   

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The draft might help and hamper at the same time. 

 

One of those hobbled or over rated, or useless players need to go...

Let's be honest... the Bull..wiz...are not going to win with this team. 

 

They had a better chance when Webber was there. 

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7 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

I never said y'all were on suicide watch or anything like that.  But there was a whole lot of hate being spewed towards him when he didn't even take a call from his hometown team.  I just don't want to see any of you guys get your hopes up on something that I think has a closer to 0% chance of happening (just my opinion).  

 

The punch thing maybe over the line in regards to our seeming sensitivity, but I'm tired of ensenuated posts that we're trapped in our own little world and can't understand our place in the NBA universe from and outside looking in perspective (we do this all the time in our own thread). We're not desperate little homers hoping for a cookie to finally fall our way. Are you sure the hate was from him not coming to DC or him going to GS?  I don't remember many of us on here stooping down to Ted's level on that one, its how we were able to take the high ground and call him out when he did.

 

7 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

Basically, I was asking if you had the final say on where LeBron goes, would you want him to sign with the Wiz or would you rather him go to the West?  In terms of what you think would give you the best chance to compete for a spot in the conference finals or even the NBA finals.  I think it's safe to assume that if LeBron did go to the Wiz that it immediately gives you a great chance to land a spot in the conference finals and possibly the NBA finals.  

 

I'd rather have him on our team, he's useless to us out west because he won't be able to knock off the Warriors for us.

 

7 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

But, if LeBron goes West and you manage to upgrade the roster in whatever fashion, how do you think your chances of making the conference or NBA finals are since the east will no longer go through where LeBron plays?  This is all based on the assumption that everyone stays healthy and you are able to upgrade in both the draft and FA.  

 

As it stands right now, we draft a big man that isn't incompetent and our backcourt stays healthy we're back to a second round team that can force a game 7 and possibly break your heart if you don't take us seriously.  Philly got exposed, but Boston is about to take LeBron's place as the gate-keeper to the East if he leaves.  I can't get over how competitive our games were against them even after Irving went down, I think we need a coaching change to get past Stevens, our talent will only go so far if we revert back to ISO in crunch time.  What I'm tired of seeing is having to wait until the playoffs to see playoff Wall, this is such a different conversation in regards to seeding if he would do that, we're so much better at home, same as Boston, in the playoffs its not even funny considering we haven't had homecourt in a series since before I was born.  It's rediculous.

 

7 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

Not sure if the Ernie comment (being happy with him) was directed at me or not, cause I think he's ****ing clown shoes and needs to be replaced.  In regards to the Caps winning, do you think that hurts the Wizards, when looking at it from the owners perspective?  With those secret contract extensions he gives Ernie, do you think because it took so long for the Caps to finally win it all, that he is going to be even  more patient with the Wiz and EG?   

 

It wasn't directed at anyone in particular (I try to make clear when it is).  Caps winning helps us because exactly what he did to the Caps is what he needs to do to the Wizards.  Once he realized his current core couldn't win a ring despite having all that talent, he fired the GM, and a more physical culture was built into the fabric of the team.  We started seeing caps teams that were better defensivly even if they weren't the same level offensivly and they were better overall because of it.  At some point, Ted has got to realize that the Wall era (like the Ovi era) is not a permanent window and found the results unacceptable.  If he claims championships is the goal like he does in his blog, 1st round and 2nd round exits is unacceptable.  I don't believe his end of season letter is so excuse-driven if the Caps won the cup before he wrote that.

1 minute ago, Kosher Ham said:

The draft might help and hamper at the same time. 

 

One of those hobbled or over rated, or useless players need to go...

Let's be honest... the Bull..wiz...are not going to win with this team. 

 

They had a better chance when Webber was there. 

 

I think that's Porter, but I refuse to give up on the Wall/Beal combo. 

 

I've seen them just flat our destroy teams in the playoffs and win series by themselves over the years, they need help, not replacements.  I hate the guranteed contract thing in the NBA, players like Ian should've been gone, its like if the Redskins couldn't get out the Haynesworth contract ($100 million) in the sense of giving someone too much money that you can't get out of them what you need, F the reason.

 

We need another amnesty or something, man, we're over the cap and got knocked out in the first round.  In what universe does that make sense?

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Philly got exposed,

 

I will point out that Philly only got exposed in the context that they don't have a player that can make a shot themselves when they need it.

 

If Simmons or Embiid learn to shoot (better), Fultz is healthy and is what was expected, or they get such a player with the Lakers pick, then things change.

 

And if all four of those things happen, hold onto your hat.  (Though that seem very unlikely.)

 

But I wouldn't be at all surprised if Philly is better than Boston next year.

 

(Though, it is also completely possible that Fultz is a bust and Embiid and Simmons never learn to shoot better, and the pick they have this year is a good player, but not a person that can generate their own offense.)

Edited by PeterMP

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Just now, PeterMP said:

 

I will point out that Philly only got exposed in the context that they don't have a player that can make a shot themselves when they need it.

 

If Simmons or Embiid learn to shoot (better), Fultz is healthy and is what was expected, or they get such a player with the Lakers pick, then things change.

 

And if all four of those things happen, hold onto your hat.  (Though that seem very unlikely.)

 

But I wouldn't be at all surprised if Philly is better than Boston next year.

 

More then fair, but that's a lot more ifs then Boston needs to be better then them. Whole conference has its work cut out for if when Hayward comes back and they can successfully fit Kyrie's skill set into their offense without losing themselves.  I need to see full-strength Boston against a healthy GS, those about Houston coming close do have a point that shouldn't be ignored, the Celtics all things considered, should not be ignored either.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said:

Is McQueen also Renegade7... 

 

Take your homer glasses off. Geez louise. 

No, and what about I said is homerism? 

 

You seem to have zero respect for our backcourt and no plan for replacing that production (nor realistic given you trust Ernie with that more then we trust him to tie his own shoes).  Your suggestions are not helping, we keep telling you to look at our cap situation before you come in our thread and I can't tell if you ever take us up on that. 

 

Your outside looking in perspective is not constructive to any discussion that involves us if you insist that you better understand our team and franchise then we do.  It's a non-starter, really, meet us halfway already because I'd like to talk to you about this, but not if you consider me delusional.  

Edited by Renegade7

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I don't recall calling anyone delusional. 

Hmm. 

 

See what you want. 

A PG that can not hit FTs at around 70% is a detrimental factor. 

That is factual and unheard of. 

They cap situation is simply that the Bullets/Wizards paid guys more money than they deserve. 

Heck, I don't root against them, I just don't see Wall and Co. winning anything.  

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3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I actually admire LeBron and have usually defended him.  I've always liked his playing style.  I don't dislike his teams the way I disliked the Jordan Bulls.

 

Interesting.  Why did you not like Jordan's Bulls teams?  

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said:

I don't recall calling anyone delusional. 

Hmm. 

 

Stop poking holes in paper and just say what you mean already.  You say we don't know what we're talking about in our own thread, you call us homers in this one, stop beating around the bush already.

 

Quote

See what you want. 

A PG that can not hit FTs at around 70% is a detrimental factor. 

That is factual and unheard of. 

They cap situation is simply that the Bullets/Wizards paid guys more money than they deserve. 

Heck, I don't root against them, I just don't see Wall and Co. winning anything.  

 

Ya'll keep bringing up FT% like that's why we can't get past the second round.  Can it be better, no ****, but that is not a top 5 problem, not when Wall was doing 26/11 this playoffs and 27/10 last playoffs.  The last 3 years we've been in the postseason, playoff FT% for Wall and Beal were higher then LeBron's, so can we all just cut the crap with this FT% being the end of the world nonsense.  There's a point in the game that that matters, but throwing out the average is useless without context and done intentionally to fill a point that's wrong in the first place, that we should get rid of Wall and Beal. 

 

Your comment about overpaying guys deserves a Captain Obvious award, where we disagree is you saying Wall and Beal are overpaid, too, which I've seen you say before.  That is NOT why we are in the situation we are in, they are the only reason we are relevant right now.  Giving that money to people Mahinmi is why we can't have a conversation of who to bring in via Free Agency.  Even if Otto is overpaid (which I agree with), we'd need a third star anyway who likely gets max anyway, so saying its Otto's fault doesn't really matter either.  Not having a realistic way to trade him is what really blows, and I blame the CBA for that, there was less support for giving him max then Beal at the time we did it.

Edited by Renegade7

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42 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

Interesting.  Why did you not like Jordan's Bulls teams?  

 

Boringly good.  I rooted for the Jazz and Sonics against them.

I was also a Penny Hardaway fan and wanted the Magic to beat them.

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On Mike and Mike this morning they were talking about Kobe's quotes on LeBron in that bleacherreport roundtable article: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2780523-kobe-bryant-nba-greats-get-lathered-about-lebrons-legacy

 

They viewed Kobe's comments as nakedly self-promotional.

 

And while there was an element of that in Kobe's comments, I viewed his comments as advice.  Kobe knows that LeBron belongs to the same club as him and MJ, Magic, and Bird as era-defining players.  He's being honest in saying that rings are the standard by which these players are judged.  LeBron has got to get some more rings to deserve MJ talk.  And he can't be having Kevin Durant pass him and win several more rings and Finals MVPs than him.  It doesn't matter if his road is tougher than the ones previous greats had, they won't accept excuses.

 

LeBron can not stay in Cleveland this summer.  He just can't.  He can't lose another year of his career while he's still capable of playing at this level.  Rings have to matter more than money to him, and if they do, then he'll go to Houston and work it out with Chris Paul so that they both can stay there.

 

Harden + CP3 + LeBron can beat the Warriors even if they were to lose Capela and Ariza in the process.  The Warriors had organizational fatigue set in this season.  They don't play as hard as they used to.  Iggy is aging and they have no good way to cope with his absence or decline.  Draymond Green looks like he might be starting to decline.  If you can match their top end talent and play hungrier than them, then you can knock them off.  Houston was definitely hungrier than them this season, they just couldn't match up.  But with LeBron?  That feels like a fair fight.

 

So the question is how can Houston make the financials work?  If LeBron won't sign for the MLE, then it'll be very tricky to keep their team intact.  You'd have to release the cap holds on Ariza and CP3 most likely.  And Capela's restricted free agency complicates things because all it would take is him signing an offer sheet (and there will be suitors for him) and their cap space is tied up.

 

If LeBron is serious about going to Houston this summer, then I predict that the free agency market is going to be really slow this summer because his situation will be holding a lot of the money and top players hostage until it gets worked out.

 

I would like to see a realistic breakdown of how Houston can acquire LeBron and what their roster and payroll situation would look like after doing so.  If it can be done, then I think we'll have figured out the key to predicting what LeBron does this summer.

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I can't figure this **** out.  The NBA's CBA is tough to follow and I don't know enough information about the timeframe these transactions would need to happen within, nor LeBron's goals, nor about the level of collusion he and the Rockets can realistically pull off between getting CP3 to go along with whatever it takes & getting Capela to abstain from signing offer sheets.

 

This is part of why I want him to come to DC.  Obviously I want him to come because he would make my team tremendously better, but I also want him to come because it's cleaner, and it lets him play out his prime on a true contender.  The three core Wizards are locked up long term.  They're younger than LeBron.  You know that you're getting three to four years of contention with this group as a minimum because they're all fully paid and locked up, which probably carries LeBron through the end of his prime.  There would be a clear hierarchy in place with LeBron in the leadership role.  A player's coach that wouldn't step on his toes.  A GM who'd just be happy to be along for the ride.  A young co-star who is confident and established enough not to have his wings broken by LeBron, good enough to take a lot of the pressure off of him, but also smart and unselfish enough to not kill the Golden Goose.  And two young wings who can shoot the lights out and are very high IQ players who would NEVER do something like dribble out of a shot at the rim of a tied game with 4 seconds on the clock.

 

It's the perfect situation for LeBron in every respect except that we can't pay him enough.  Taking such a massive paycut is too much to realistically ask for.  It would be years before we could pay him what he's worth unless the cap jumps up higher than expected. It's a shame, because he could play great basketball here and strengthen his legacy.

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