***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[Renegade7]

@stevemcqueen1  You saying that about the CBA makes me feel better about sometimes feeling the same way. 

 

I want to talk more about what's going with teams from a luxury tax standpoint, but when I go to different articles, sites, and wiki pages, its just not straight forward enough to come out and stand with a point that makes sense and easily explained.  From what I can tell, Warriors are already over the softcap before even re-signing KD.  We know they're going to do it, so I don't understand why that isn't discussed and why the softcap is a reason teams like the Wizards can't do the same thing to get LeBron (outside Ted not wanting to spend to go too far over the luxury tax that it seems GS has no problem with).

 

Am I wrong on this assessment?  I feel like GS is the gaming the system in every way imaginable, Silver called it taking advantage of a fluke in the cap during one of his interviews during the finals, I feel like we're getting played here.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

I feel like Simmons went over exactly how Houston could afford Lebron in one of his podcasts. I'll try to find it and post the link. They only part I remember was they'd, sadly, have to extend Anderson to stretch out his cap hit. 

[justice98]

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Harden + CP3 + LeBron can beat the Warriors even if they were to lose Capela and Ariza in the process. 

 

Harden concerns me in that scenario.  He is not particularly good in the postseason.  Even Lebron being there to take some of the pressure off wouldnt assuage my concerns.

[Mr. Sinister]

On 6/11/2018 at 1:51 AM, Renegade7 said:

@Mr. Sinister  We'll have to agree to disagree on his intentions for Cleveland. 

 

No, what we're going to do is analyze your claim of what his intentions were  when he arrived, your lack of tangible evidence to support your claim, and you inadvertently shooting down your own smoking gun quote, contradicting your argument.

 

Quote

What I saw were multiple win now moves, not building something for the long haul.  At minimum he was going to get one in Ohio, and then go from there, but the bonanza trades this year for the Cavs to get younger was a direct rebuke to LeBron's desires on how to build the team for what he wanted, not what was best for the franchise. 

 

What? The phrase "Win now" doesn't mean "Win this year and that's it." Thats usually "All in" or something similar.

 

"Win now" refers to a window of opportunity (usually around 3 years) in which a team can compete for a title. And at the end of that 3 years they wouldve reconfigured the roster again to "Win now" (if he decided to stay anotger 3)

 

Building for the long haul is not what top players in their prime do, and it makes zero sense why you even brought it up. No, he was going to "Win now," and try to go for several rings, which is exactly what I've been saying all along in this ultimately pointless discussion.

 

So unless you want to, again, show me something that counters this clear motive (along with his "I'm chasing Jordan" comments after the  '16 Finals, again, tangible evidence), then no, we can't agree to disagree, because we're not at an impasse... You're just wrong. Opinions are fine, but it's not matching reality.

 

[justice98]

 

Marla Ridenour on ESPNLA 710:

 

On where else Lebron could play:

“I heard this from his own lips when we were in Houston this season, he does not like Houston as a city. That would require him moving to a place that he's not crazy about.”

 

Last 10 minutes of the podcast:

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/losangeles/play?id=23765361

[Renegade7]

16 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

No, what we're going to do is analyze your claim of what his intentions were  when he arrived, your lack of tangible evidence to support your claim, and you inadvertently shooting down your own smoking gun quote, contradicting your argument.

 

Fair enough, I'll get back to you later today on that one.  In meantime, do you see a single quote where he said he wanted to win multiple titles in Cleveland?  I wouldn't have gone this far if I found one.

[Mr. Sinister]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

Fair enough, I'll get back to you later today on that one.  In meantime, do you see a single quote where he said he wanted to win multiple titles in Cleveland?  I wouldn't have gone this far if I found one.

 

You're ****ting me with this...

 

You really gonna sit here and tell me he signed that contract, and they made all those acquisitions, and became a Finals competitor, and for the length of that contract, his goal is not winning multiple titles? 

 

Tell me what his goal is/was... ECF? Playoffs? Just have fun? Do you really believe that? Did I not just explain to you that  direct quote from him on the last page which directly implies what I have said? If he won in '15 (if Kyrie/Love we're healthy) do you think he'd just say "Welp, I did it, time to go/let them deconstruct the team and start building for the future! Nothing else matters, I won one ring in Cleveland, yay for me!" in the first year of a 3 year contract?

 

LeBron James is the best player in basketball. He knows this. Anywhere he goes, the expectation is title contention. Anything else is either misinterpreted, or him giving himself an out if he fails.

 

This is getting stupid. And irritating. Im not the repetitive play merry-go-round type.

 

Edited June 12, 2018 by Mr. Sinister

[Renegade7]

12 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

You're ****ting me with this...

 

You really gonna sit here and tell me he signed that contract, and they made all those acquisitions, and became a Finals competitor, and for the length of that contract, his goal is not winning multiple titles? 

 

Tell me what his goal is/was... ECF? Playoffs? Just have fun? Do you really believe that? Did I not just explain to you that  direct quote from him on the last page which directly implies what I gave said?

 

LeBron James is the best player in basketball. He knows this. Anywhere he goes, the expectation is title contention. Anything else is either misinterpreted, or him giving himself an out if he fails.

 

This is getting stupid. And irritating. Im not the repetitive play merry-go-round type.

 

You need to relax. 

 

I said he wanted to get one in Cleveland and go from there.  You keep saying he wanted to win multiple titles in Cleveland, I don't believe he would've committed to that unless he felt it was realistic after getting his first and would leave if he felt it wasn't, which is exactly what he's doing. I never said he didn't want multiple titles, I said I didn't believe his commitment to doing that in Cleveland, the way he talked about moving back, it sounded more like ending the championship drought, that first one was more important than anything that came after it. 

 

You want to throw in the technicality between "Win Now" and "All In", Cleveland had the oldest team in the NBA once the season started, call it what you want.  The point of this pointless discussion that I was perfectly fine walking away from is that LeBron is committed to LeBron more then any single franchise, more then Cleveland, more then Miami, and winning one in Cleveland was about doing it for Ohio and proving it could be done, that's it.  That box is checked, he owes them nothing, and everyone expects him to leave

.

 

He's in a position where the only thing left to do is chase Jordan, and considering how inept a franchise the Cavs have been before and since LeBron left and came back, no way do I believe he went back to Cleveland thinking he could catch up to him there.  Why would he keep threatening that franchise with player options?  Ask him what he wants to do know, "I have no idea", is what I keep seeing, sound like somebody committed to the long haul with anyone?

 

Again, chill, I never said he didn't want multiple rings period, if that's what you think I'm thinking.  I'll review your other posts later to make sure I didn't miss anything, but your last post made it sound like I think this guy doesn't care about getting anymore rings, I don't believe that and never said that.  That last sentence of any paragraph is called the conclusion for a reason.

Quote

When I left Cleveland, I was on a mission. I was seeking championships, and we won two. But Miami already knew that feeling. Our city hasn’t had that feeling in a long, long, long time. My goal is still to win as many titles as possible, no question. But what’s most important for me is bringing one trophy back to Northeast Ohio.

 

I'm not contradicting myself, since he came back, he never said he wanted multiple rings in Cleveland.  His primary goal was ending their championship drought, he said that a million times more then trying to create a dynasty in Ohio of all places.  I'm starting to wonder if you just misunderstood my point on what LeBron wants, because you haven't posted anything showing he wanted multiple rings in Cleveland.  I'm telling you, I looked already, if you find something that he says that clearly indicates that, I'll listen to it.

[Mr. Sinister]

We're done.

[PeterMP]

I'm sure that Lebron would have loved to win multiple championships in Cleveland.

 

Realistically, Lebron's goal every year is most likely to win a championship.  It was in Cleveland and Miami, and it will be where ever he goes next.

 

Do I think he ever thought the chances of him winning multiple championships were very high (especially considering they were nothing before he went there)? 

 

Probably not.

 

Did he want to, was that the goal at some level?  Sure.  Did he think it was realistic?  Probably not.  And then in that context, the goal was to bring at least one home to Cleveland.

Edited June 12, 2018 by PeterMP

[Mr. Sinister]

13 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

I'm sure that Lebron would have loved to win multiple championships in Cleveland.

 

Realistically, Lebron's goal every year is most likely to win a championship.  It was in Cleveland and Miami, and it will be where ever he goes next.

 

Do I think he ever thought the chances of him winning multiple championships were very high (especially considering they were nothing before he went there)? 

 

Probably not.

 

Did he want to, was that the goal at some level?  Sure.  Did he think it was realistic?  Probably not.

 

Then you are in agreement. Realistic doesn't matter when he signed that contract and they made all those signings. And it was certainly realistic.

 

The glaring foil to all of this was the Golden State Warriors, which he did not account for initially, yet still would have been in position to counter, until Durant.

 

That's the expectation, and what happened on the court reflected it. 

Edited June 12, 2018 by Mr. Sinister

[PeterMP]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

Then you are in agreement. Realistic doesn't matter when he signed that contract and they made all those signings. And it was certainly realistic.

 

The glaring foil to all of this was the Golden State Warriors, which he did not account for initially, yet still would have been in position to counter, until Durant.

 

That's the expectation, and what happened on the court reflected it. 

 

I'm not sure what was built in Cleveland was better than what had been in Miami, and there was only one championship there in 3 years and that required essentially a miracle from Ray Allen.  If he only won one in Miami, I don't think Lebron went into Cleveland with a  realistic higher expectation that that.

 

(And I'd honestly take those Miami teams over the Cleveland teams, and I certainly don't thing that Lebron thought those Cleveland teams were a lot better than those Miami teams.)

Edited June 12, 2018 by PeterMP

[Renegade7]

Winning championships is hard, so whether its realistic should matter.

[Renegade7]

https://www.slamonline.com/nba/ex-cavs-gm-says-lebron-james-contracts-unsustainable-teams/

 

Ex-Cavs GM Says LeBron’s Contracts Are ‘Unsustainable’ For Teams

 

Since returning to the Cleveland Cavaliers in 2013, LeBron James has technically been a free agent three different times. To keep his options open, James has signed a series of short-term deals that feature player options that allow him flexibility financially and organizationally. Although James is signed through 2019 on his current deal, he has the ability to opt out this summer to either sign a new deal with Cleveland or another team should he decide to do so.

 

Ex-Cavaliers General Manager David Griffin, who signed off on several of these types of deals while he was in Cleveland, said it’s “unsustainable” to franchises while featuring as a guest on The Bill Simmons Podcast:

 

Quote

“When LeBron is on a one-year contract every year, you don’t get to be sustainable, you don’t get to be Danny Ainge. You don’t get to play that game, those aren’t the cards you’re being dealt. You have to win right now and put (LeBron) in a position and a frame of mind where he belives he’s going to win in the future. Everything that happens because he’s on one-year deals for the absolute maximum amount of money is an unsustainable formula. So to some degree, he puts himself in that situation as well. I think he appreciates that because it’s what gives him to ability to make make Cleveland do what they did (at the trade deadline). He doesn’t care if Cleveland has nothing left if he walks. He cares that Cleveland believes in him enough to invest in him.”

 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

54 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

I'm not sure what was built in Cleveland was better than what had been in Miami, and there was only one championship there in 3 years and that required essentially a miracle from Ray Allen.  If he only won one in Miami, I don't think Lebron went into Cleveland with a  realistic higher expectation that that.

 

(And I'd honestly take those Miami teams over the Cleveland teams, and I certainly don't thing that Lebron thought those Cleveland teams were a lot better than those Miami teams.)

 

Well he had just been run off the court against San Antonio and Miami seemed very old and slow around him. I think that was the appeal of Cleveland, teaming up with a young Kyrie, Wiggins (or trade for another star) and go to battle against an aging Spurs team and a West that had a bunch of young upstarts in Golden State and the Griffin/Paul Clippers. Seemed better than his prospects of staying in Miami honestly. Agree with Sinister that he just didn't count on Golden State taking off and still, he beat the best version of them until Durant joined. 

 

They won two in Miami also.

[Mr. Sinister]

14 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

Well he had just been run off the court against San Antonio and Miami seemed very old and slow around him. I think that was the appeal of Cleveland, teaming up with a young Kyrie, Wiggins (or trade for another star) and go to battle against an aging Spurs team and a West that had a bunch of young upstarts in Golden State and the Griffin/Paul Clippers. Seemed better than his prospects of staying in Miami honestly. Agree with Sinister that he just didn't count on Golden State taking off and still, he beat the best version of them until Durant joined. 

 

They won two in Miami also.

 

Pretty much

[Renegade7]

What's so funny, @Mr. Sinister ?  : )

[justice98]

1 hour ago, PeterMP said:

 

I'm not sure what was built in Cleveland was better than what had been in Miami, and there was only one championship there in 3 years and that required essentially a miracle from Ray Allen.  If he only won one in Miami, I don't think Lebron went into Cleveland with a  realistic higher expectation that that.

 

 

Cuz the all-time leader in 3s making one was unlikely.  

[Mr. Sinister]

37 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

What's so funny, @Mr. Sinister ?  : )

 

That that article was anything more than a waste of everyone's time.

 

He just held a gun to their head. Nothing more than a threat. A threat they have finally started calling him on. He was staying there, and he was going for it all, period. If he truly thought he couldn't win there then he would've left. He wanted them to kiss his ass (like I said from the start) Nothing more, nothing less.

 

 None of those teams, pieces included, were by far and away best in the East. Only with him. And he could do that on a lot of teams. Why didn't he?

 

He won his title in '16. He stayed. Why? He lost humiliatingly in '17. He stayed (when it wouldve been clear to this LeBron that you speak of that it was time to bounce, or stop clearly and obviously scrambling people together to try and compete for a title ). Why? Because of everything I've already saud, a million times. His ego allowed him to think he could get more people to Cleveland, and make it all work, because he's LeBron James, Lord of all universes.

 

Nothing he couldve done from 16-'17 onward wouldve made a damn bit of difference anyway, despite the age of that team this year. Thats the KD factor. And he STILL reached the Finals anyway (with a razor thin chance to actually extend it and be up in it) changing the team midseason. What happened with that team was of his own making.

 

And the Cavs were psychologically broken enough to allow that ****.

 

And not a shred of that says anything about him doing anything other than what I already said... Winning right now, there. Maximizing every available  opportunity to win as many titles as possible. And it was Cleveland, at least for these 4 years.

 

Realistic DOES matter, when wrapped in the context of goals. We do not achieve all of our goals/expectations. That doesn't stop us from setting them.

 

So unless you want to show me, again, anything that proves (beyond opinions) at all what you're saying, then we can agree that you're wrong about this, and move on. Because it's clear what happened(and what was happening) from a visible, tangible standpoint 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2018 by Mr. Sinister

[Momma There Goes That Man]

10 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

Cuz the all-time leader in 3s making one was unlikely.  

 

I laughed but still. In a vacuum, no, it's not unlikely. In the context of that moment, yeah it was pretty miraculous. 

Edited June 12, 2018 by Momma There Goes That Man

[Mr. Sinister]

3 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

I laughed but still. In a vacuum, no, it's not unlikely. In the context of that moment, yeah it was pretty miraculous. 

 

Don't bother me. Only one that ever threw me was someone throwing together some crazy, coked out theory as to why we were lucky to beat OKC ?

Edited June 12, 2018 by Mr. Sinister

[RonArtest15]

Why would Lebron go to the West?  It's going to be a gauntlet again.  More of a task for him to come out of that conference than the East.  If he does choose a team from the West, I could see him linking up w/ Pop in SA.  They have great admiration for one another.  However, I think that particular signing would hinge on what happens w/ Kawhi.  Lebron would be a no-go if Kawhi's out. 

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, RonArtest15 said:

Why would Lebron go to the West?  It's going to be a gauntlet again.  More of a task for him to come out of that conference than the East.  If he does choose a team from the West, I could see him linking up w/ Pop in SA.  They have great admiration for one another.  However, I think that particular signing would hinge on what happens w/ Kawhi.  Lebron would be a no-go if Kawhi's out. 

 

The problem for the Spurs is the same as for the Wizards: money.  Unless Rudy Gay and Danny Green opt out, then San Antonio won't have cap space this summer.  And, realistically, I don't know that either of those guys will opt out.  Danny Green is looking at an MLE contract this summer and he's already making slightly more than that in San Antonio.  And Rudy Gay would probably be lucky to make that kind of money this summer in such a squeezed market.

 

So if LeBron is faced with signing an MLE in order to play for a legit team, then would you rather:

 

1 - Run the Western Conference gauntlet with a Houston team that has great top end talent but a hollowed out front court, in a city that he apparently dislikes.

2 - Run the Western gauntlet with a San Antonio team that has a Popovich on the doorstep of retirement, a disgruntled and injured Kawhi with an uncertain future, and a ton of money locked up in a 33 year old LaMarcus Aldridge, 30 year old Patty Mills, and 38 year old Pau Gasol

 

or

 

3 - Stay in the softer Eastern Conference and run the show in DC with a 28 year old Wall, 26 year old Porter, and 25 year old Beal, all of whom are locked up through 2020 and Wall is locked up to 2022.

 

The Wizards are the best MLE choice,

 

The Rockets are the best weird money choice (but honestly, I'd rather sign the MLE to play in Houston than force them to hollow out their team to sign me for a little bit more if I had already made LeBron career money).

 

The 76ers are the best max contract choice.

 

The Lakers are the best "**** it, I want to make money and build my brand" choice.

[Renegade7]

I said LeBron's primary goal in going back to Cleveland was to end the championship drought in Cleveland, then assess where to go from there.  I've tried to explain that he did this in a way that damaged the future of the Cav's franchise and the reason why the roster looks like that is because he wanted to make sure he could get out of there if it didn't go the way he wanted it to.  If you don't believe that's what I said or meant, show me why in my post history, because I want to make sure we're on the same page about this one.

 

4 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

That that article was anything more than a waste of everyone's time.

 

He just held a gun to their head. Nothing more than a threat. A threat they have finally started calling him on. He was staying there, and he was going for it all, period. If he truly thought he couldn't win there then he would've left. He wanted them to kiss his ass (like I said from the start) Nothing more, nothing less.

 

 None of those teams, pieces included, were by far and away best in the East. Only with him. And he could do that on a lot of teams. Why didn't he?

 

I never said LeBron thought couldn't win a championship in Cleveland, I said his original goal was not multiple titles, it was to get the first one.

 

If the GM is saying he can't plan for the future of the franchise because his best player won't sign a long-term contract, how is that not relevant to this conversation about him wanting multiple championships with that franchise?  You're basically saying its obvious to everyone he wasn't going anywhere, um, obviously not Cleveland:  

 

In the 2015 Offseason, Love had to squelch rumors that he disliked his role with the Cavs and relationship with LeBron so much that he would leave via Free Agency, enough so reports were Cavs front office was legit scared he might leave.

 

https://www.sbnation.com/2015/5/6/8560893/kevin-love-status-free-agent-cavaliers-rumors-2015

 

This was at the same time LeBron used his player option and then refused to resign with the Cavs until Tristain Thompson got an extension.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/report-lebron-wont-re-sign-with-cavs-until-thompson-deal-2015-7

 

Love and Thompson both got 5 year deals, LeBron took another two year with a player option, essentially a one-year deal making him a free agent after the 2016 season.  Why? So if it didn't go well he had the option to get out of there, that's why.

 

For someone with that kind of leverage, you don't think he threatened to leave if Blatt wasn't let go of?  Now the rumor is he lost the locker room, but there is totally smoke that LeBron had planned to get rid of Blatt from get-go (which I find more plausible):

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/how-david-blatt-never-stood-a-chance-with-lebron-james-and-his-camp-035612484.html

 

You're question on why he hadn't left yet going into the 2016 season has already been answered:  He didn't have that first ring in Cleveland yet.  That was goal #1 and I stand by that, he keeps saying that, I believe him, you should, too.

 

Quote

Gilbert made Lue the league's highest-paid assistant coach at $2 million-plus a year, forever considering him the head-coach-in-waiting should Blatt need to go. Ultimately, Blatt had little staying power with the Cavaliers, because James had turned Blatt's removal into an inevitability. As the games wore on, opposing players on the floor weren't only watching James constantly wave off plays from the coach – but role players feeling emboldened to disregard the head coach's instructions, too.

 

James had the Cavaliers existing in open rebellion for more than a season now, with no Pat Riley in the organizational shadows to scare everyone into compliance.

 

Despite winning 11 of 13 games – losing only to the Golden State Warriors and San Antonio Spurs – James had become increasingly vocal in his opposition of Blatt in recent practice sessions and game environments. Within the franchise, it was hard to hear anything else. LeBron James and Rich Paul never had to walk into the GM's office and demand the firing of the coach. All together, they had the capability of making everyone's life hell until the deed was done.

 

Blatt made mistakes in his transition to the NBA, struggled sometimes to gather the nuances of a complex game of matchups and situations. He had coached in the Euroleague for two decades, and had to sell himself on a new coaching staff, a new roster and the generation's best player.

 

With that kind of plan in place, you don't think LeBron was threatening the Cav's front office with that player option he had?

 

Quote

He won his title in '16. He stayed. Why? He lost humiliatingly in '17. He stayed (when it wouldve been clear to this LeBron that you speak of that it was time to bounce, or stop clearly and obviously scrambling people together to try and compete for a title ). Why? Because of everything I've already saud, a million times. His ego allowed him to think he could get more people to Cleveland, and make it all work, because he's LeBron James, Lord of all universes.

 

The underlined question is something I've answered repeatedly but you won't accept and instead claiming you were right from get-go. 

 

I said his goal when he got there was to end the championship drought for Cleveland first and foremost and then decide where to go from there.  Which is what he did, he signed a three year contract with a player option (which he used, so really a two year contract).  That's why he didn't leave after the 2017 season even after being humiliated like that in the finals, he couldn't, and wouldn't lift his no trade clause.  He maintained that stance of not wanting to be traded even after Kyrie and eventually IT was traded off the team.  From what was leaking, LeBron was going off on people in the front office for an oh so familiar reason:

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lebron-james-reportedly-lashed-out-at-cavs-execs-during-expletive-laden-team-meeting/

 

Quote

James and Gilbert have no relationship. Neither do James and Altman, multiple sources with knowledge of the situation told The Athletic. Whereas Griffin would consult with James and keep him informed of major roster decisions, that is no longer happening. James doesn't trust this front office, and there is no communication now between management and star player. It perhaps played a role in James yelling and cursing at multiple front office executives during the now-famous team meeting a couple of weeks ago that began with players questioning Kevin Love's absence from a recent practice.

Multiple sources confirmed James cursed toward at least two team executives during the heated meeting. When asked about the exchange, James told The Athletic he couldn't remember everything that was said.

 

He was also back to making 30+ million a year, so any attempt like his first two years to take less money for them to have a chance at Cleveland's first ring was over, no more hometown discounts after that. 

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/cleveland-cavaliers/lebron-james-2257/

 

And why would he going forward?  Front Office isn't listening to him anymore and the team for the most part was playing like a team waiting to get dethrowned in the playoffs (I think many of us are still kinda shocked they didn't, but LeBron is that good even if that roster was that bad).  And this would be the fourth offseason in a row he's non-committal about his long-term commitment to the franchise (which if you're keeping track and not tuned me out by now with your ready-made response is every single offseason since he signed there), when that should've been clear from his refusal to sign a long-term contract, which you say he never intended to act on in terms of actually leaving. 

 

I maintain that he did whatever he could to get that first ring then was playing with house money in regards to what he wanted to do next, not the other way around.  

 

Quote

Nothing he couldve done from 16-'17 onward wouldve made a damn bit of difference anyway, despite the age of that team this year. Thats the KD factor. And he STILL reached the Finals anyway (with a razor thin chance to actually extend it and be up in it) changing the team midseason. What happened with that team was of his own making.

 

And the Cavs were psychologically broken enough to allow that ****.

 

He's been 1-8 against the KD Warriors in the Finals, so razor thing nothing, I don't know why you're even putting that out there.  He didn't stand a chance against the KD Warriors, he knew it, everyone knew it, let's just leave it there.

 

At this point, the GM that constructed a roster per LeBron's bidding that was over the luxury cap with only 8 players on the roster going into the 2017 offseason was gone.  The owner has gotten personal with LeBron (again).  You scoff at the Cavs being the oldest team going into the 17-18 season, if LeBron was serious about staying in Cleveland the rest of his career, why would he have pushed the team into cap hell with the roster like that so early in his return?  This stopped being about Cleveland after he got his first ring, that's why.

 

Quote

And not a shred of that says anything about him doing anything other than what I already said... Winning right now, there. Maximizing every available  opportunity to win as many titles as possible. And it was Cleveland, at least for these 4 years.

 

Given how manipulative and self-centered LeBron has shown he's capable of, I've tried to give you examples of how he could've easily said "F this ****" going into it if he didn't think he could get Cleveland his first ring (which I stand by as his primary goal coming back to Cleveland) and if it didn't go according to the way he wanted it to after that happened he would leave first chance he got (which is what he's doing this offseason).

 

Question:  If we're 4 years into LeBron in Cleveland and he still doesn't have a ring, does he still stay?

 

Quote

Realistic DOES matter, when wrapped in the context of goals. We do not achieve all of our goals/expectations. That doesn't stop us from setting them.

 

He left Cleveland the first time because he didn't think it was realistic to win a championship there.  He's going to leave again for the same reason.  If anyone can understand the concept of your best not being good enough, its LeBron.  If you listen to his interviews when he first came back, he emphasized how hard it was to get just one championship, and there's a reason for that.  There's a reason he didn't come back to Ohio talking about "not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4".

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPBqz17Ru3c

 

That is not the tone of someone thinking they can walk into that sorry-ass franchise and walk out with multiple rings.  That's the tone of someone who is fully aware that he might fail and take that first one as seriously as he can. That's huge reason he was crying after Cavs finally got that first one, that wasn't just any other ring. Below is the transcript if you're like me and can read faster then he can talk:

 

https://www.foxsports.com/ohio/story/lebron-james-cavs-media-day-press-conference-transcript-092614

 

You'll notice one of his responses was in regards to the future or the past, he isn't thinking about that, just the present.  You can see that in how he's tried to force the build of the team since he got there until the Owner took back control and cut him out completely from those type of decisions.

 

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So unless you want to show me, again, anything that proves (beyond opinions) at all what you're saying, then we can agree that you're wrong about this, and move on. Because it's clear what happened(and what was happening) from a visible, tangible standpoint 

 

 

 

Here is my problem with your assessment of anything I have put forth so: you have a different interpretation of his actions then I do and ignoring his words.  For someone as angry with LeBron about his lack of commitment to ya'll, I'm surprised you are so adamantly defending his commitment to Cleveland.  And for what reason?  I'm glad we finally disagree on something, but at some point I'd like to know why you don't want to let this go, whether you agree with me or not.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Renegade7

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

He isn’t going to the Wizards.