Per Rappaport, Jack Del Rio/ Vieselmeyer Fired. Ron will run defense for rest of Season

[Captain Wiggles]

I'd totally hire Mcdermott as a defensive coordinator tho if he's available. 

[samy316]

1 hour ago, Commander202 said:

I feel like that shouldn’t have us say no tho . All the other years the bills been an elite team that was making aggressive moves . And just cause this is his down year doesn’t mean he automatically sucks or a bad coach. Doug P/ Andy Reid / Mike McCarthy all got fired from a terrible season , went to a new one and has there teams looking like they'll have a bright future .

 

Im just trying to keep an open mind . 

 

 

 

No to McDermott.  The Bills SB window has closed, and Josh Allen is just entering his prime.  They wasted their window to get to and win a SB, and now McDermott is the odd man out in Buffalo.  Buffalo needs an offensive minded coach to get the best out of Allen, because clearly McDermott is not the right coach for him to take that next leap.  When you have a franchise QB like Allen or Herbert, you need an offensive minded coach to mold that QB, and get the best out of your offense.  Look at what Herbert's going through in LA.  Staley is ruining Herbert's chances to compete just exactly like McDermott is in Buffalo with Herbert.  McDermott is nowhere near as bad as Staley, but he's not an offensive guy, and Allen needs the right offensive minded coach.  They actually had that person in Brian DaBoll.  Look at how Allen's regressed since DaBoll left.

 

If we're sticking with Howell, we need to get the best offensive minded coach that money can buy.  It will do wonders for him and our offense.  No more defensive minded coaches or retreads.  There's proof of this too. 

 

Look at Jordan Love for example.  Just a couple of weeks ago, people were wondering whether or not Love would be a bust in GB, but now he's starting to figure things out, and has cut down his turnovers dramatically, and he's looking comfortable in the pocket.  The reason for that is his coach Matt LaFleur.  He's a great young offensive minded coach, and he's figured out a game plan to get the best out of Jordan Love, to the point where he looks like a legit starting QB. 

 

On the other hand, Kenny Pickett has regressed severely, and he's looking lost and overwhelmed in Pittsburgh.  He's getting worse each week, and that's because they have a defensive minded coach, who doesn't manage the offensive side of the ball well.  They just fired their disaster of an OC in Matt Canada.  I bet you that Pickett will continue to struggle, until they get the right offensive coordinator/coach to improve him.

Edited November 28, 2023 by samy316

[88Comrade2000]

3 hours ago, Commander202 said:

Idk about everyone else but I think if Sean McDermott is available he be my first choice . We can’t deny how good the bills have been for 5 years and to put it nicely the bills before SM was more of a joke than us. Still I don’t see him getting fired the bills just are having a slump season.

Bills window is closing but they gave him an extension; will they eat it and move on?

[RandyHolt]

 

19 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Again people don't quite grasp the concept of tanking.

 

Nobody is asking the players to lose on purpose. Professionals are going to compete and try to win. I have no issue with that.

 

But the organization should be making moves for the long term. Resting veterans. Giving young players more snaps. Coaching more aggressively(going for more 4th downs, etc.).

 

At the end of the day, once gameday starts the players and coaches will be trying to win and I'm not gonna trash a guy like McLaurin or Allen going out and trying to win. That's why you take it out of their hands.

 

We just finished WEEK 12 - I feel like the annual tank talk should be shelved 5 or 6 more weeks.

 

I get it, draftniks find solace then joy in losses by improving our draft position and re-visting mocks. Annually it seems, some tank talkers don't grasp the reality of the NFL. Fans pay to see wins and the NFL exists to provide competitive games.  Don't hold your breath hoping to see our AAA farm team this Sunday. It doesn't exist and its NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. If it happened enough in the past to warrant a discussion in week 13, we'd have a lottery. 

 

Name names. Who are all the young players you want to see this Sunday, I was talking Sunday and Ron's adjustments when you chimed in. The raw OL, and risk getting Sam killed? You want to see Tariq shadow Tyreek? You ready to sit BRob in his breakout year to see more Rod? More Dyami less Jamison?  If you want more Cole Turner just say it.  Hey I would love to see Tinsley get snaps over Dyami but he is probably raw AF and would log INTs onto Sam's ledger running the wrong route, and look like a damned fool. There is a reason we don't see him.

 

At the end of the day Ron and NFL coaches are not going to do what you want them to do, outside of just a maybe in week 18 by a team or 2 with a ruthless GM.

 

Lets revisit tanking in 2024 when a coach on a bottom feeder may decide to tank.

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Voice_of_Reason]

9 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Josh Allen hasn’t regressed. Look up his numbers. He had a couple bad games but hes been great. Bills wont fire Mcdermott.

If Dabol gets fired (he shouldn’t but who knows) then the Bills need to hire him back as OC.  He was able to get through to Allen better than anybody since.

 

But I think he would get another HC job.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

At the end of the day Ron and NFL coaches are not going to do what you want them to do outside of just a maybe in week 18.

 

Nobody expects Ron to deliberately lose.  I think we are all more than confident that he’s going to try to win and still lose a lot more often than not.

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, RandyHolt said:

 

 

ITS WEEK 12 - I feel like the annual tank talk should be shelved 5 or 6 more weeks.

 

I get it, draftniks find solace in losses by improving our draft position. Annually it seems, some DNs don't grasp the reality of the NFL. Fans pay to see wins and the NFL exists to provide competitive games.  Don't hold your breath hoping to see our AAA farm team this Sunday. It doesn't exist and its NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

 

Name names. Who are all the young players you want to see this Sunday. The raw OL, and risk getting Sam killed? You want to see Tariq shadow Tyreek? You ready to sit BRob in his breakout year to see more Rod? More Dyami less Jamison?  If you want more Cole Turner just say it.  Hey I would love to see Tinsley get snaps over Dyami but he is probably raw AF and would log INTs onto Sam's ledger running the wrong route.

 

At the end of the day Ron and NFL coaches are not going to do what you want them to do outside of just a maybe in week 18.

 

 

There is no question the higher your draft pick the better your position to acquire players.  The higher draft picks are better assets.

 

We’re not going to see a lot of different players though because the young guys are either on IR or already playing.

 

Quan Martin and Butler are young and playing.  
 

Forbes is hurt.

 

Stromboli is on IR.  I’m not sure there’s a point changing the OL at this point, and I’m not sure there is a young guy to plug in worth evaluating who isn’t on IR.
 

The young DEs are already playing. 
 

I’m not sure who’s left.  
 

The real bottom of the roster guys will get a few reps but most of the guys who are able to play are playing.  

Shrug.

 

The team is going ti tank because they are bad.  The real way to tank is to pull the QB but we’re not doing that. 
 

Now if Howell did get hurt, I’d say you skip Brissett, and go to whatshisname.  

[RandyHolt]

I am too lazy to go back to see what triggered tank talk but I simply said I wanted to see Ron's adjustments and our new scheme D to kick ass. Its just odd to see such a simple position face ANY push back at all.

 

 

[Llevron]

5 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

I am too lazy to go back to see what triggered tank talk but I simply said I wanted to see Ron's adjustments and our new scheme D to kick ass. Its just odd to see such a simple position face ANY push back at all.

 

We literally do this every year. Nothing odd about it. 

[samy316]

40 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

I am too lazy to go back to see what triggered tank talk but I simply said I wanted to see Ron's adjustments and our new scheme D to kick ass. Its just odd to see such a simple position face ANY push back at all.

 

 

 

Lucky for us, the team doesn't have to try to tank, they just actually suck.  They can try as hard as they want to to win, but they still really suck.  I'm comforted by the fact that they won't be able to backdoor into any frustrating, meaningless victories with their schedule coming up.  They can (and probably will) lose out, while giving their "best effort" (LOL).

Edited November 28, 2023 by samy316

[Ball Security]

42 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

I am too lazy to go back to see what triggered tank talk but I simply said I wanted to see Ron's adjustments and our new scheme D to kick ass. Its just odd to see such a simple position face ANY push back at all.

 

 

So, for fun, let’s say it does and we get to 9-8. Would you bring Rivera back next year?

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

9 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Nobody expects Ron to deliberately lose.  I think we are all more than confident that he’s going to try to win and still lose a lot more often than not.

 

 

All Ron has to do to deliberately lose is keep doing what he's done for 4 years...show up on the sidelines and fold his arms.

[Andre The Giant]

 

[RandyHolt]

Welp I think we have one coach that may survive the inevitable purge of Dan's coaching staff.

[Skinsinparadise]

Listening to Logan Paulsen's latest podcast, he lambastes the scheme.

 

In short, he thinks they played man way too much.  the secondary got burned over and over again in man.  He said offensive players love it when opponents play man -- much easier to beat versus a good zone defense. 

 

Logan isn't hung up on blitzing.  He goes some of the top defenses don't blitz much.  But he's a big fan of creating chaos and moving players around causing confusion by overstacking one side, doing stunts, changing the positions of players, etc.  But Del Rio just lines them up and hopes they will beat the O lineman in front of them.    He goes Dallas for example is constantly creating confusion based on their alignments.  Parsons could be on the right side, the left side, heck he could be lined up at 0 (nose spot).

 

Players are just out of position a lot.  The secondary isn't aligned with the d line.  On and on

Edited November 29, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

The ironic thing is we're the only offense in the league that can't get receivers open against man coverage.

 

Literally every offense in the league destroys man coverage in today's NFL. Our guys have CBs stuck on them like white on rice.

[Skinsinparadise]

On 11/28/2023 at 8:18 AM, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Nobody expects Ron to deliberately lose.  I think we are all more than confident that he’s going to try to win and still lose a lot more often than not.

 

 

 

If Logan is right, talent isn't the problem on defense its the scheme and teaching.  He and Craig talked about the teaching issue in a recent podcast -- in short they don't think there are good teachers on this staff.

 

As far as the scheme goes according to Logan its about shifting away from man and playing more zone and move the D lineman around -- more stunts, more confusion and marry the D line rush with the secondary, the two are right now aren't playing in synch.  If Logan is right, it all sounds fixable.

 

On another note, oddly now Logan seems to admit the O line is an issue and its effecting Sam.  He wasn't on that plane earlier this season or most of camp.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Chris 44]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If Logan is right, talent isn't the problem on defense its the scheme and teaching.  He and Craig talked about the teaching issue in a recent podcast -- in short they don't think there are good teachers on this staff.

 

As far as the scheme goes according to Logan its about shifting away from man and playing more zone and move the D lineman around -- more stunts, more confusion and marry the D line rush with the secondary, the two are right now aren't playing in synch.  If Logan is right, it all sounds fixable.

 

On another note, oddly now Logan seems to admit the O line is an issue and its effecting Sam.  He wasn't on that plane earlier this season or most of camp.

I like listening to Logan break down plays etc. Just feels like he often tempers his opinions due to him being employed by the team and needing to keep a good relationship with the staff in order to do his job. With the end of this staff in sight he may open up a little more.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If Logan is right, talent isn't the problem on defense its the scheme and teaching.  He and Craig talked about the teaching issue in a recent podcast -- in short they don't think there are good teachers on this staff.

 

As far as the scheme goes according to Logan its about shifting away from man and playing more zone and move the D lineman around -- more stunts, more confusion and marry the D line rush with the secondary, the two are right now aren't playing in synch.  If Logan is right, it all sounds fixable.

This checks out.

 

Our back 7 are always reacting and the DL might as well be pushing sleds on every down.  
 

 

18 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The ironic thing is we're the only offense in the league that can't get receivers open against man coverage.

 

Literally every offense in the league destroys man coverage in today's NFL. Our guys have CBs stuck on them like white on rice.

Not being able to hold blocks up front in conjunction with predictable routes is a major leg up for opposing corners.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

This checks out.

 

Our back 7 are always reacting and the DL might as well be pushing sleds on every down.  
 

 

 

Logan in his usual non-mean nice style was tearing Jack to shreds.  He goes Parsons would likely only have 9-10 sacks if he played here because they'd just line him up at the same place every time and that's not how Parson's wins to the extent he does.  Parson is moved around as a chess piece, and Del Rio doesn't move anyone around.

 

If Logan is right shifting from a man heavy scheme to zone would help a lot.  Ditto running some stunts, moving the D lineman around.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

34 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

I like listening to Logan break down plays etc. Just feels like he often tempers his opinions due to him being employed by the team and needing to keep a good relationship with the staff in order to do his job. With the end of this staff in sight he may open up a little more.

 

He says everything with a very nice demeanor sort of like Keim.  But he was especially brutal notwithstanding his nice demeanor dissecting this defense.

 

The good news for me listening to it is if he's right this defense doesn't need a major talent infusion.  It needs much better coaching

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Logan in his usual non-mean nice style was tearing Jack to shreds.  He goes Parsons would likely only have 9-10 sacks if he played here because they'd just line him up at the same place every time and that's not how Parson's wins to the extent he does.  Parson is moved around as a chess piece, and Del Rio doesn't move anyone around.

 

If Logan is right shifting from a man heavy scheme to zone would help a lot.  Ditto running some stunts, moving the D lineman around.

Basically, Logan had to wait until Jack was fired to say all this stuff. 🤣

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Basically, Logan had to wait until Jack was fired to say all this stuff. 🤣

 

Yep speaking of working for the team.  I think Logan and Craig dancing around the O line issue has been amusing.  Logan started off concerned at the beginning of camp about the o line. 

 

Then we heard the report that Ron wasn't happy about the media's reporting about the O line in practice at camp and then soon after we heard Logan have a conversion about the O line thinking it will be OK.    then at the beginning of the season when they were giving up a ton of sacks, Logan put that mostly on Howell.

 

Now i noticed in recent weeks he's critical again about the O line. 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Now i noticed in recent weeks he's critical again about the O line. 

Logan is a Yes man, IMO to Ron since Logan works for the Commanders.  The O line has been the problem all along and thank goodness we drafted Howell. 

[RandyHolt]

@Skinsinparadise Do you think zone match man is considered man, when we hear man vs zone tendencies of defenses?

 

I assume its considered man coverage but its a guess. Thanks