Per Rappaport, Jack Del Rio/ Vieselmeyer Fired. Ron will run defense for rest of Season

[kingdaddy]

3 hours ago, method man said:

I think we need to find that elite EDGE player, a green dot LB and a FS who can lead the secondary but we are all forgetting that this D was a top 10 D a year ago. 
 

The only guys playing better this year vs last year are Fuller (longtime vet in a contract year) and Davis (he was horrible first quarter of 2022). Everyone else has regressed and, in the cases of BSJ, Allen, Payne, Curl and Forrest, they have regressed hard

With a competent DC and position coaches and some talent upgrades, I think we can get back to respectability next year and at least be average

Watching Curl on Thursday what stood out to me was that he played very reactionary as opposed to attacking. I'd be curious to hear what he has to say and if the changes we make will involve him blitzing/attacking more? 

[SoCalSkins]

2 hours ago, Conn said:

There is literally no reason to think this.

Follow Magic on Twitter. There is every reason to think this. 
 

Also, Harris only owns 30%. If things go south and Magic can get Rales and another partner or two to go against Harris they could make changes. We don’t know what their operating agreement entails but Harris doesn’t have complete power like you think he does. He is in charge now but he is beholden to his partners more than any other NFL owner. 

Edited November 26, 2023 by SoCalSkins

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Follow Magic on Twitter. There is every reason to think this. 

 

Magic on Twitter is kindof s thing.  he does the same stuff for all the teams he’s associated with.  The most captain obvious summary saying nothing on the outcome of the game.

 

8 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

 

Also, Harris only owns 30%. If things go south and Magic can get Rales and another partner or two to go against Harris they could make changes. We don’t know what their operating agreement entails but Harris doesn’t have complete power like you think he does. He is in charge now but he is beholden to his partners more than any other NFL owner. 

Per NFL rules, Harris is the majority owner and there is nothing which is going to change that.  He’s the man in charge.  He has 100% of the voting shares.

 

The NFL set up the ownership rules in such a way there can never be infighting within a group as to who has final say.  
 

And when things got out of control with Dan and his minority owners the NFL stepped in and shut it down.  

 

Josh is the man in charge.  I think there’s no question the person he relies on most is Mitch Rales.  
 

He would be a fool not to consult with Magic and Ein and others.  But the Buck stops with Harris.  And nothing short of another sale will change that.  

[Conn]

36 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Follow Magic on Twitter. There is every reason to think this. 
 

Also, Harris only owns 30%. If things go south and Magic can get Rales and another partner or two to go against Harris they could make changes. We don’t know what their operating agreement entails but Harris doesn’t have complete power like you think he does. He is in charge now but he is beholden to his partners more than any other NFL owner. 

You are fully off on this. The other NFL owners have to approve any sales of any shares, they cannot just make a move on Harris lol, that’s not something that happens. Nevermind that he has personal relationships with the top minority shareholders. That’s why I specifically said “it’s not like Succession”. Harris has exactly as much power as I said. 
 

“Follow Magic on twitter” lol, I stand by my post no matter how much Magic tweets into the void. It doesn’t matter that Harris “only” owns 30%, he is the only party with voting shares so to speak. Everyone else just shares in the profit and the equity.

 

This was all explained to you back when you were obsessed with Bezos and worried that someone with “only” 30% of the team would actually be in charge or have money to spend. Or when you were worried that RG3 would be a 1% member of the ownership group and making personnel decisions or something. 

Edited November 26, 2023 by Conn

[Voice_of_Reason]

7 minutes ago, Conn said:

You are fully off on this. The other NFL owners have to approve any sales of any shares, they cannot just make a move on Harris lol, that’s not something that happens. Nevermind that he has personal relationships with the top minority shareholders. That’s why I specifically said “it’s not like Succession”. Harris has exactly as much power as I said. 
 

“Follow Magic on twitter” lol, I stand by my post no matter how much Magic tweets into the void. It doesn’t matter that Harris “only” owns 30%, he is the only party with voting shares so to speak. Everyone else just shares in the profit and the equity that 

 

This was all explained to you back when you were obsessed with Bezos and worried that someone with “only” 30% of the team would actually be in charge or have money to spend. Or when you were worried that RG3 would be a 1% member of the ownership group and making personnel decisions or something. 

Yeah, @SoCalSkins you were loud wrong about just about everything ownership related.  
 

I think maybe discretion might be the better part of valor here.  
 

Trust literally every report snd the NFL bylaws: Josh Harris is the final decision maker and there is no recourse for any of his minority owners to do anything but influence his decision based on suggestions.  
 

That’s by NFL design.  It’s not debatable.  

[PlayAction]

 

A new GM may conclude that with a few more players in the right positions our ceiling is still 9-7.  That really sucks after four years of Rivera team-building.  The best that Rivera can do now is to show that some of these defensive players are actually worth keeping for the future.  Otherwise, it makes sense to dump your stars for draft picks because the team will not benefit long-term from keeping them on the roster.  We only have 2 DTs and a WR with significant trade value.  Shottenheimer did a major reset and it's possible a good GM would take the same approach. Oh, the woe.  I'd respect that approach much more than the delusion that the roster is just a few pieces away from being competitive.    

[lovemaskins]

Question, speaking of Dfo, where has he been? Did he get hurt? Seen a lot of Butler but where the hell has Dfo been, the other half of the supposed “best safety tandem in football?”

[Voice_of_Reason]

12 minutes ago, PlayAction said:

 

A new GM may conclude that with a few more players in the right positions our ceiling is still 9-7.  That really sucks after four years of Rivera team-building.  The best that Rivera can do now is to show that some of these defensive players are actually worth keeping for the future.  Otherwise, it makes sense to dump your stars for draft picks because the team will not benefit long-term from keeping them on the roster.  We only have 2 DTs and a WR with significant trade value.  Shottenheimer did a major reset and it's possible a good GM would take the same approach. Oh, the woe.  I'd respect that approach much more than the delusion that the roster is just a few pieces away from being competitive.    

I haven’t heard anybody say they think the roster is close.  Not with the complete implosion of the defense.  
 

We’re actually closer on offense, if Howell is a legitimate starter.  
 

And we still need 4 new OL starters, another WR, RB and upgrade at TE.

 

And that’s the closer side of the ball.  

1 minute ago, lovemaskins said:

Question, speaking of Dfo, where has he been? Did he get hurt? Seen a lot of Butler but where the hell has Dfo been, the other half of the supposed “best safety tandem in football?”

He’s on IR. 

[lovemaskins]

14 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

He’s on IR. 

What was the injury, how serious? Career type stuff or minor but still season ending? Seemed like I remember him getting hurt but never heard a prognosis…

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 minutes ago, lovemaskins said:

What was the injury, how serious? Career type stuff or minor but still season ending? Seemed like I remember him getting hurt but never heard a prognosis…

I don’t honestly remember but I don’t think it was career threatening.  But might have been season ending.

[kingdaddy]

Steelers go over 400 yards of total offense for the 1st time in 56 games. Seems it pays to fire ineffective coordinators?

30 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

We’re actually closer on offense, if Howell is a legitimate starter.  

Based on this season and how it's gone you are correct, but I'm not convinced a new D-coordinator cant turn things around. 

[Captain Wiggles]

According to Rivera last week Forrest is close to returning. 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/commanders/news/washington-commanders-darrick-forrest-return-injury-ron-rivera

 

Quote

Commanders (4-6) safety Darrick Forrest has been on the injured reserve since Week 6 with a shoulder injury. Washington head coach Ron Rivera commented on the safety's progress and how he's getting closer to returning to the field. 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

52 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Steelers go over 400 yards of total offense for the 1st time in 56 games. Seems it pays to fire ineffective coordinators?

Based on this season and how it's gone you are correct, but I'm not convinced a new D-coordinator cant turn things around. 

The issue is almost all of the defensive players are FA.  All the DEs except for the 2 draft picks are FAs.  Curl is a FA.  Fuller is a FA.  Barton is a FA.

 

So by circumstance, we have to re-sign all those players to give a new DC a chance.

 

And there’s no way I would re-sign all those players to see what a new DC could do with them. 
 

Yhe defense is going to have 5-7 new starters next year just because of contracts.  

38 minutes ago, Captain Wiggles said:

According to Rivera last week Forrest is close to returning. 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/commanders/news/washington-commanders-darrick-forrest-return-injury-ron-rivera

 

 

He should stub his toe and stay out the rest of the season.  He gains nothing by playing this season at all. 

[Spearfeather]

16 hours ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

Man did you see number 71 in the endzone celebrating? Trent has some serious longevity skills over the decades. Very impressive.

 

[DWinzit]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The issue is almost all of the defensive players are FA.  All the DEs except for the 2 draft picks are FAs.  Curl is a FA.  Fuller is a FA.  Barton is a FA.

 

So by circumstance, we have to re-sign all those players to give a new DC a chance.

 

And there’s no way I would re-sign all those players to see what a new DC could do with them. 
 

Yhe defense is going to have 5-7 new starters next year just because of contracts.  

He should stub his toe and stay out the rest of the season.  He gains nothing by playing this season at all. 

That's all part of why the sooner a GM is signed, the better. It is a long run for them to then get a coaching staff and scouting staff in place to evaluate the players and to ready for FA and the draft. 

Edited November 26, 2023 by DWinzit

[Conn]

3 hours ago, DWinzit said:

That's all part of why the sooner a GM is signed, the better. It is a long run for them to then get a coaching staff and scouting staff in place to evaluate the players and to ready for FA and the draft. 

We’re following the appropriate timetable, GM candidates working for NFL teams currently (the only candidates we should be interested in) can’t be approached and interviewed until the end of the season, same timetable as HC and assistant candidates.  

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

4 hours ago, Spearfeather said:

 

Lol. I was gonna say that there was no #71 on the oline when that play started. So I guess it was this defensive end? That seems so weird to me. Nowadays you'll never see a defensive lineman run onto the field to celebrate an offensive touchdown. Maybe it's not allowed these days, idk.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Can you guys imagine some of the exotic schemes Ron will be cooking up this week??? All that coaching he be doin’… Buckle up, baby!!

[DWinzit]

16 minutes ago, Conn said:

We’re following the appropriate timetable, GM candidates working for NFL teams currently (the only candidates we should be interested in) can’t be approached and interviewed until the end of the season, same timetable as HC and assistant candidates.  

I get it, I just see me and others getting impatient and frustrated as we get to about week 16. Then as others are interviewing coaches and we are working on GM candidates. I know, patience is a virtue  

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

12 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Can you guys imagine some of the exotic schemes Ron will be cooking up this week??? All that coaching he be doin’… Buckle up, baby!!

With his eyes closed and arms crossed and not saying a word too

[Conn]

33 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I get it, I just see me and others getting impatient and frustrated as we get to about week 16. Then as others are interviewing coaches and we are working on GM candidates. I know, patience is a virtue  

Hey, I’m impatient for it as well, I get it. But franchises hire new GM’s and still get their top choice HC’s (and assistants) all the time. Smart teams usually go through weeks of interviews and cast a wide net—and the timetable will be even more drawn out now because candidates from playoff teams are not allowed to take in-person interviews until after the playoffs now. 
 

You’re used to a new hire being made quickly because Snyder never cast a wide net and never actually did things normally. He hired Zorn so quickly to be the OC that it actually sabotaged his own HC search. He tried to hire Mike Shanahan halfway through the NFL season (Mike made him wait until it was over—he was out of the NFL at the time). He and Bruce already knew they were hiring Gruden. He desperately offered Rivera full decision-making power immediately. We basically never navigated a hiring cycle normally—and we never did a real deep, wide search for actual GM candidates before looking for the HC (though some will admittedly come as potential package deals). 
 

So, I get that it seems odd to not be able to immediately jump on the top HC candidates right away. But it is healthy to expect a thorough, normal hiring process like other regular franchises. It’ll all go according to plan. And you don’t really want the candidates that aren’t at least equally concerned with finding the absolute best fit for themselves and the staff who will be following them into their next venture. If somebody wants to jump into bed with Davis and the Raiders on hour three of the hiring cycle without finding themselves and their people the best chance to succeed—let them. That’s disqualifying. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Conn

[El Mexican]

7 hours ago, PlayAction said:

 

A new GM may conclude that with a few more players in the right positions our ceiling is still 9-7.  That really sucks after four years of Rivera team-building.  The best that Rivera can do now is to show that some of these defensive players are actually worth keeping for the future.  Otherwise, it makes sense to dump your stars for draft picks because the team will not benefit long-term from keeping them on the roster.  We only have 2 DTs and a WR with significant trade value.  Shottenheimer did a major reset and it's possible a good GM would take the same approach. Oh, the woe.  I'd respect that approach much more than the delusion that the roster is just a few pieces away from being competitive.    

 

That's a great point. If there ever was a time to do a hard reset it's at the end of THIS season.

 

Marty cleaned house with the roster he received from the previous coach and he actually showed good advances in the final third of the season.

Sadly El Dano put the kibosh on that before any fruits were reaped. Weird times.

 

But the Marty example does show you a franchise can dramatically improve from one season to the next if the owner selects a good GM.

It was Marty ball or nothing. Run run run and the occassional long pass. Stout defense. A winning formula even in today's NFL, IMO.

 

I have HUGE expectations Harris will eliminate the pestilence from the previous regime in a swift manner.

That includes the coach and a lot of players and maybe even a different name for the beloved team.

 

[DWinzit]

7 hours ago, Conn said:

Hey, I’m impatient for it as well, I get it. But franchises hire new GM’s and still get their top choice HC’s (and assistants) all the time. Smart teams usually go through weeks of interviews and cast a wide net—and the timetable will be even more drawn out now because candidates from playoff teams are not allowed to take in-person interviews until after the playoffs now. 
 

You’re used to a new hire being made quickly because Snyder never cast a wide net and never actually did things normally. He hired Zorn so quickly to be the OC that it actually sabotaged his own HC search. He tried to hire Mike Shanahan halfway through the NFL season (Mike made him wait until it was over—he was out of the NFL at the time). He and Bruce already knew they were hiring Gruden. He desperately offered Rivera full decision-making power immediately. We basically never navigated a hiring cycle normally—and we never did a real deep, wide search for actual GM candidates before looking for the HC (though some will admittedly come as potential package deals). 
 

So, I get that it seems odd to not be able to immediately jump on the top HC candidates right away. But it is healthy to expect a thorough, normal hiring process like other regular franchises. It’ll all go according to plan. And you don’t really want the candidates that aren’t at least equally concerned with finding the absolute best fit for themselves and the staff who will be following them into their next venture. If somebody wants to jump into bed with Davis and the Raiders on hour three of the hiring cycle without finding themselves and their people the best chance to succeed—let them. That’s disqualifying. 

Great post Conn. Calmed me lol.

We certainly don't want to be staring at another Zorn debacle! I am excited for the real professional process and all the top candidates being interested!

[PlayAction]

9 hours ago, El Mexican said:

Marty cleaned house with the roster he received from the previous coach and he actually showed good advances in the final third of the season.

Sadly El Dano put the kibosh on that before any fruits were reaped. Weird times.

 

But the Marty example does show you a franchise can dramatically improve from one season to the next if the owner selects a good GM.

It was Marty ball or nothing. Run run run and the occassional long pass. Stout defense. A winning formula even in today's NFL, IMO.

 

Marty knew what he was doing - he had to clean out the bad contracts and find out which players were going to carry the lunch pail every day.  After one year, he had created cap space and acquired draft picks.  But the owner fan was bored with the process, so he fired Marty.  We never got to see whether the team would have developed into a long-term winner IF Marty had been able to deploy the money and draft picks appropriately.  It's a cautionary tale for fans today.  Fixing a poorly designed roster may require changes that fans don't like and result in a season with few wins.

 

As you said, getting a good GM with good vision is the key to changing this team for the better.  All of the talk of potential coaches or preferred draft choices is premature.    

[Warhead36]

Noone should be considered untouchable. New regime should be able to shape this team in the image they want.