Moving Towards our Future Front Office and Coaching Hires. All the Way to the Water Boy - Adam Peters Hired as GM! The Mighty Quinn is HC Kliff Kingsbury as OC. Joe Whitt jr at DC.

[zCommander]

50 minutes ago, FrFan said:

On the side note check out his wife.

 

Not a big fan of the long butt chin 😂

[srtman04]

Well I'm definitely not worried about the defense this year.  Not surprising because Quinn is a defensive coach.   My concerns again,  remain with the offense, especially after the Bobby Johnson hire.  I hope we don't get our new QB killed.  

[FrFan]

28 minutes ago, srtman04 said:

Well I'm definitely not worried about the defense this year.  Not surprising because Quinn is a defensive coach.   My concerns again,  remain with the offense, especially after the Bobby Johnson hire.  I hope we don't get our new QB killed.  

This is the one I don't get, I hope Peters or Quinn will address this hire in an upcoming interview. There's gotta be a reason.

Giants fans are piling up on him on x.

 

Edited February 13 by FrFan

[Stoox]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Very few coaches have experience coaching the Air Raid offense.  I'm not sure if you can say the Bills ran an "Air Raid" offense while he was there, but I do know the Bills incorporated a ton of Air Raid concepts into their playbook.  It's especially important for an OL coach to have experience in this system - the OL have to line up in a wider split than they do in a typical WCO and they are on more of an island.  The blocking concepts are different.  I'm not sure if the Giants incorporated any Air Raid into their offense (I know I wouldn't if I had Daniel Jones at QB) - if not, maybe he just isn't as successful outside of that system and Kingsbury is only looking at his success via Air Raid.

 

Bobby Johnson's lines in Buffalo were actually pretty good:

 

2019 Buffalo: 40 Sacks allowed #15 

2020 Buffalo: 27 Sacks allowed #9 

2021 Buffalo: 27 Sacks allowed #2 

 

If he can replicate those results, we are in business.

 

You bring up a good point: if the blocking concepts and techniques are different in the Air Raid....does this mean we would need a different type of lineman (ie - quicker and more athletic, but maybe a little smaller?) If yes, that's good timing, since we need 3 new starters anyway at centre and the two tackles. Stromberg could fit as the C. And Andrew Wylie could actually fit in at LG.

 

https://chiefswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/24/andy-reid-considers-andrew-wylie-one-of-chiefs-better-athletes/

 

Edited February 13 by Stoox

[RVAskins]

8 minutes ago, FrFan said:

This is the one I don't get, I hope Peters or Quinn will address this hire in an upcoming interview. There's gotta be a reason.

Giants fans are piling up on him on x.

 

The Giants were a mess last year. I don't think Daboll had much of a choice but to fire coaches or get fired himself. I wish we still had Bill Callahan but we don't so let's see what Johnson can get out of our OL. We need to nail it on draft day and free agency.

[HTTRDynasty]

14 minutes ago, Stoox said:

You bring up a good point: if the blocking concepts and techniques are different in the Air Raid....does this mean we would need a different type of lineman (ie - quicker and more athletic, but maybe a little smaller?) If yes, that's good timing, since we need 3 new starters anyway at centre and the two tackles. Stromberg could fit as the C. And Andrew Wylie could actually fit in at LG.

 

https://chiefswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/24/andy-reid-considers-andrew-wylie-one-of-chiefs-better-athletes/

 

 

Yes, from what I know, OL are typically required to be more athletic in this scheme - though that doesn't necessarily mean they will be smaller (but it does tend to correlate, to your point).  I think there will probably be a lot of gap and some inside zone when it comes to run plays. 

[RWJ]

Good hire!  With Arizona and Green Bay.  Helped develop Devante Adams and Hopkins got Pro Bowl Honors under him.  

David Raih (buccaneers.com)

 

David Raih (pronounced 'Rye') enters his first season with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 2023 as senior offensive analyst. 

Raih brings 14 years of professional and collegiate experience to Tampa Bay after most recently serving as offensive coordinator at Vanderbilt in 2021. 

Prior to Vanderbilt, Raih spent seven years in the NFL; two seasons (2019-20) as the wide receivers coach with the Arizona Cardinals and five seasons (2014-18) as an assistant coach with the Green Bay Packers.

During his time in Arizona, Raih coached wide receivers Larry Fitzgerald and DeAndre Hopkins. Fitzgerald played the final two seasons of his career under Raih's direction, breaking an NFL record for the most consecutive seasons with 50-or-more receptions (17). In his lone season with Raih as his position coach in 2020, Hopkins earned first team All-Pro and Pro Bowl honors. He ranked second in the NFL in receptions (115), third in receiving yards (1,407), second in receiving first downs (75) and fifth in yards after catch (528). 

In 2018, with the Green Bay Packers, Raih helped guide Davante Adams' to his first 100-catch and 1,000-yard receiving season. During that same year, Adams ranked sixth in receptions (111), and seventh in receiving yards (1,386).

Raih began his coaching career as a coaching intern with the quarterbacks at UCLA (2008-09) before accepting roles at his alma mater, Iowa (2010-12), and Texas Tech (2013). 

The Minnesota native played quarterback at Iowa (1999-2003) and went to St. Thomas Academy, a catholic, military high school in St. Paul, MN. He and his wife, Lauren, have two children: Goldie and Rockford.

Edited February 13 by RWJ

[Warhead36]

44 minutes ago, Stoox said:

 

Bobby Johnson's lines in Buffalo were actually pretty good:

 

2019 Buffalo: 40 Sacks allowed #15 

2020 Buffalo: 27 Sacks allowed #9 

2021 Buffalo: 27 Sacks allowed #2 

 

If he can replicate those results, we are in business.

 

You bring up a good point: if the blocking concepts and techniques are different in the Air Raid....does this mean we would need a different type of lineman (ie - quicker and more athletic, but maybe a little smaller?) If yes, that's good timing, since we need 3 new starters anyway at centre and the two tackles. Stromberg could fit as the C. And Andrew Wylie could actually fit in at LG.

 

https://chiefswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/24/andy-reid-considers-andrew-wylie-one-of-chiefs-better-athletes/

 

So basically as his QB got good, the OL suddenly stopped sucking. Funny how that works.

 

Giants OL looked a lot worse than it was similar to ours because their QBs sucked. But they were also absolutely ravaged by injuries last year.

[Redwards]

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Also we don't know how much of the Giants OL issues were on bad QB-ing. Tommy Devito in particular held the ball a ton, and Daniel Jones has always been prone to getting knocked around. But ultimately their talent level is crap and they had tons of injuries.

The worrisome thing is the Giants had several high picks on that line and none were developed.  That's a huge red flag.  

 

I think the spider-web entanglement here in terms of faith in this hire is basically the level of trust a fan has in Quinn and Kingsbury.   I don't distrust Quinn (I am a huge fan of his on a personal level and am rooting for him big time, not just because he's our coach, but he is earnest and desperately wanted this job) but I don't trust him either.  

 

And, just speaking for me, of course, I really don't trust the hire of Kingsbury.  The more and more I read about his offense and see interviews with media from Arizona who have covered him there, I get more nervous.   His offense to me seems borderline gimmicky and more smoke and mirrors than pure substance.  I'm seeing in interviews that he doesn't really adjust in-game, which is exactly the problem we had with EB.  He doesn't play the chess match.  Also, his offenses never finish all that high.  And, as has been mentioned here a ton, his offenses ALWAYS get figured out about 2/3rds of the way though the season and fall off a cliff with zero answer from Kliff.  That goes back to college as well.  

 

People say that if those guys don't produce, Quinn can fire them and hire a new OC, etc.  But the question then becomes two things: 

 

1.  How much rope will Quinn give his hires? 

2.  Can he get it right the next time (if needed).

 

I want to clarify that I'm not putting nails in coffins or predicting our doom.  Not at all.  I'm looking at this with a clear head...but, at this point after learning more about Kliff and looking at the horrific results in NY by Johnson and the lack of player development by him, I'm just extremely doubtful with regard to those offensive hires thus far.  Obviously, we gotta wait and see.  BUT...we better not ruin another high pick QB in the process.  This fanbase will go nuclear, and rightfully so.

 

 

Edited February 13 by Redwards

[Riggo#44]

6 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

So basically as his QB got good, the OL suddenly stopped sucking. Funny how that works.

 

Giants OL looked a lot worse than it was similar to ours because their QBs sucked. But they were also absolutely ravaged by injuries last year.

 

I wonder how many people raging about this hire wanted to interview, if not hire, Mike Kafka.

[Redwards]

38 minutes ago, RVAskins said:

The Giants were a mess last year. I don't think Daboll had much of a choice but to fire coaches or get fired himself. I wish we still had Bill Callahan but we don't so let's see what Johnson can get out of our OL. We need to nail it on draft day and free agency.

The worst thing here is that the Giants had plenty of high draft picks on the OL and none were developed.  That's incredibly alarming.  We've just been through 4 years of that.  We cannot afford four more.  Quinn will be gone and our new QB will probably be ruined in the process.

 

This hire was absolutely critical.  Maybe we get pleasantly surprised.  Hope so. 

[goskins10]

This really seems to be do we get the BIlls version or the Giants version of Bobby Johnson. There can be a lot of internal things going on keeping Johnson from doing the job he wanted to do. Just because Dabol brought him does not mean they didn't start to disgree as the **** went bad in NY. I am willnig to give them the benitift of the doubt for now (as if my opinion matters - LOL). But I would be lying if I said I was not concerned about the ffesnive side of the call, Quinns weakness already. 

 

Not a huge fan of the K Kingsbury hire and this is a real head scratcher. But maybe this is the magic combination We will see soon enough. The draft may give some indication. We will see. 

[LetMeSeeYourWarFace21]

 

[CTskins]

While hiring Bobby Johnson from the Giants doesn't make sense on it's face, the Giants' line was also devoid of talent. So much so, that they signed a guy from his couch, staying in shape by loading UPS trucks from the sorting line, who was literally getting starters reps 3 days later. That said, Washington needs more talent along the line as well.

 

I don't mind that Kerrigan remains. He's assisting a position coach. He's not one himself. He's basically a quality control coach with a better title.

[Warhead36]

42 minutes ago, Redwards said:

The worrisome thing is the Giants had several high picks on that line and none were developed.  That's a huge red flag. 

 

 

Andrew Thomas is a stud, just injury prone. Evan Neal looks like a bust though. It could very well also be that they simply drafted bad players.

 

Its like when we took 3 receivers in the 2nd round of the 08 draft and they all sucked. But it had nothing to do with coaching, they were just bad players.

[Captain Wiggles]

5 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm great at the second part. I've worked in restaurants most of my life and been a member here for close to 20 years. You break down the technical stuff to me and I'll bust out the crayons for Josh and co.

 

How our job interview would turn out. 🤣

 

 

 

[Dah-Dee]

I take the Buffalo results with a much larger serving of salt than I do with the Giants results where Bobby Johnson is concerned. 

 

Like others have said, NYG invested heavily in OL via draft last several years, including picks during the Johnson years that you'd think were heavily influenced by what the OL coach wanted. And the word out of NY has consistently been - going back to his first year and not just since he got fired - that Johnson failed miserably at developing all that drafted talent. Also: 134 sacks allowed in two years!! Holy crap.

 

As for Buffalo, seems Josh Allen made/makes that OL look a lot better than it could/should:

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2019/09/26/josh-allen-among-nfl-most-pressured-quarterbacks/

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2022/02/20/pro-football-focus-buffalo-bills-josh-allen-preventing-sacks/

 

 

Edited February 13 by Dah-Dee

[Stoox]

More on the Air Raid:

 

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/uw/2022/12/08/what-does-air-raid-offense-mean-if-its-indeed-coming-to-wisconsin/69712146007/

[CTskins]

33 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

I take the Buffalo results with a much larger serving of salt than I do with the Giants results where Bobby Johnson is concerned. 

 

Like others have said, NYG invested heavily in OL via draft last several years, including picks during the Johnson years that you'd think were heavily influenced by what the OL coach wanted. And the word out of NY has consistently been - going back to his first year and not just since he got fired - that Johnson failed miserably at developing all that drafted talent. Also: 134 sacks allowed in two years!! Holy crap.

 

As for Buffalo, seems Josh Allen made/makes that OL look a lot better than it could/should:

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2019/09/26/josh-allen-among-nfl-most-pressured-quarterbacks/

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2022/02/20/pro-football-focus-buffalo-bills-josh-allen-preventing-sacks/

 

 

The QB factor shouldn't be ignored. Daniel Jones making 40M/year means his agents did a phenomenal job of leveraging a mediocre 2022 season after his 5th year team option was declined. It doesn't mean he's good at playing football. Jones is not a $40M QB (37 sks/6 games). Undrafted and inexperienced Tommy Devito was sacked 30 times over 9 games (6 starts), and aging journeyman Tyrod Taylor went down only 17 times in 11 games (5 starts) due to his experience.

 

That's 85 sacks over just over 500 pass attempts.

Edited February 13 by CTskins

[HigSkin]

 

[woodpecker]

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

So basically as his QB got good, the OL suddenly stopped sucking. Funny how that works.

 

Giants OL looked a lot worse than it was similar to ours because their QBs sucked. But they were also absolutely ravaged by injuries last year.

15th, 9th, and then 2nd…when did they “suck”?? Not saying QB improvement didn’t matter, but seems to me he took them from mediocre, to good, to great in three years.

[FrFan]

2 hours ago, Stoox said:

More on the Air Raid:

 

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/uw/2022/12/08/what-does-air-raid-offense-mean-if-its-indeed-coming-to-wisconsin/69712146007/

In the mean time, in our opponents' stadiums, sprint bomb 2.0 on its way.

 

Edited February 13 by FrFan

[ThatNFLChick]

41 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

 

I like the defensive hires SIGNIFICANTLY more than I like the offensive hires. I don't like using the air raid offense in the NFL to the extent people think Washington will, I don't really trust Kingsbury to make adjustments (he never did with the Cardinals), and the less said about the Johnson hire the better.

[ThatNFLChick]

1 hour ago, Stoox said:

More on the Air Raid:

 

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/uw/2022/12/08/what-does-air-raid-offense-mean-if-its-indeed-coming-to-wisconsin/69712146007/

 

This is just.....

 

"The Air Raid is more a process than a playbook these days," Russo wrote. "Keeping things simple, stressing execution over matchups and seemingly endless repetition of a relatively small number of plays in practice are what links the Air Raid’s past and present."

 

“The offense is designed to be simpler,” Longo added. “It’s designed to be more flexible so that regardless of our talent base we have the flexibility in the offense to promote the more talented players.”

 

 

“The philosophy is to stay simple, spread teams out, horizontally pre-snap, vertically post-snap, and it really displace 11 defenders throughout the field as much as we possibly can.”

 

If there are drawbacks, it's that teams with elite corners can defend a "run to where the grass is" concept and the lack of structured route-running might pose a challenge for certain types of receivers. Plus, the running game doesn't receive the benefit of blocking from its wideouts, which theoretically inhibits the potential for long runs. Thirdly, that stigma against air raid athletes could discourage top-end quarterback talent in recruiting."

"So why hasn't air raid become more popular as an overall offense in the NFL? There's more than one reason, but strangely enough, the hash marks — which are much closer together in the NFL than in college — might have a decent amount to do with it. With the college hashes so much closer to the sideline, it creates a more lopsided field and more space on one side for offenses to operate."

 

I guess I get making things as simple as possible for college QBs (though a simplified system like this does not really set them up for success at the NFL level, there's a bigger learning curve like we saw with Howell).

 

Not taking advantage of matchups and not adjusting for the looks that the defense is giving you and providing more options for the QB is almost coaching malpractice at the NFL level in 2024 IMO. The system is basically just a small number of plays repeated over and over again and the same 1, 2, 3 reads. Did people see Macdonald's defense this year or the defense that Spags put together? How does such a simple system combat that? I feel like I am really missing something here with anyone being excited about Kinsbury implementing it.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

So basically as his QB got good, the OL suddenly stopped sucking. Funny how that works.

 

Giants OL looked a lot worse than it was similar to ours because their QBs sucked. But they were also absolutely ravaged by injuries last year.

 

Tyrod Taylor's sack rate was right around league average. Yet Daniel Jones sack rate shot up. So something is a bit weird there. Could be that this OL coach could not get the OL to block in a way that supported how Daniel Jones navigated the pocket? We need a larger sample size, and unfortunately we'll figure that out on the fly with our own team.