Moving Towards our Future Front Office and Coaching Hires. All the Way to the Water Boy - Adam Peters Hired as GM! The Mighty Quinn is HC Kliff Kingsbury as OC. Joe Whitt jr at DC.

[Skinsinparadise]

Bullock who is obsessive about scheme in his work, still isn't in the context of the HC.  He's right IMO.  It's not purely about X's and O's.     Not saying we can from our couch dicipher their personalities but the FO should be able to gauge their people skills, leadership, motivational skills.  Or how good are they are delegating, managing their time and everyone elses, how connected are they are to lining up strong staff, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

Speaking of a good X's and O's coordiantor who wasn't a good HC.    I'd take him here..

 

 

I

Edited January 20 by Skinsinparadise

[clskinsfan]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Bullock who is obsessive about scheme in his work, still isn't in the context of the HC.  He's right IMO.  It's not purely about X's and O's.     Not saying we can from our couch dicipher their personalities but they should be able to gauge their people skills, leadership, motivational skills.  Or how good are they are delegating, managing their time and everyone elses, how connected are they are to lining up strong staff, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

This is a great post. Johnson ran more play action from under center than any other OC in the league this year. Brings into question how WIlliams, Maye and Daniels could adjust to that. None of them have a ton of tape under center. And Maye has zero that I could find. Whichever rookie ends up here is going to have a pretty stiff learning curve when it comes to playing under center. Not saying that they cant do it. But under Johnson it is going to be a lot to learn.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

So far much of the speculation around the NFL has centered around Lions offensive coordinator Ben Johnson, arguably the hottest young assistant on this offseason's coaching carousel. There is a strong belief that Peters wants to find his own version of Kyle Shanahan — the next young, bright offensive mind.

Three of the known candidates have actually coached with Shanahan, including one (Texans offensive coordinator Bobby Slowik) who was an assistant in San Francisco while Peters was there. But five of the seven candidates have been primarily defensive coaches in their careers.

And there could still be more added to the list.

For now, though, here's a closer look at the seven candidates so far:

Ben Johnson: The 37-year-old Detroit Lions offensive coordinator is the man of the moment on the head coaching carousel with interviews set with six teams, including the Panthers, Falcons, Chargers, Titans and Seahawks. He's the hottest candidate because of the revival in Detroit and the masterful work he's done building an offense around quarterback Jared Goff.

Johnson was a holdover from the Matt Patricia regime in Detroit when Dan Campbell was hired in 2021 and named him the passing game coordinator. One year later, he was the offensive coordinator and the Lions became a top-five offense in each of the last two years. He also turned Goff, cast off by the Rams, into one of the most reliable and productive quarterbacks in the NFC.

The obvious hope in Washington would be that he could do the same for either Sam Howell or whichever quarterback the Commanders take with the No. 2 pick in the NFL Draft.

Edited January 20 by Skinsinparadise

[Command The 414]

 

Just now, clskinsfan said:

This is a great post. Johnson ran more play action from under center than any other OC in the league this year. Brings into question how WIlliams, Maye and Daniels could adjust to that. None of them have a ton of tape under center. And Maye has zero that I could find. Whichever rookie ends up here is going to have a pretty stiff learning curve when it comes to playing under center. Not saying that they cant do it. But under Johnson it is going to be a lot to learn.

I totally agree, but theres always going to be those naysayers who will say it’s not that big of a deal, they’ll adjust to it…it is a huge deal imho for these guys… if anything just the comfortability of it… we shall see how this all pans out

[ThatNFLChick]

13 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

This is a great post. Johnson ran more play action from under center than any other OC in the league this year. Brings into question how WIlliams, Maye and Daniels could adjust to that. None of them have a ton of tape under center. And Maye has zero that I could find. Whichever rookie ends up here is going to have a pretty stiff learning curve when it comes to playing under center. Not saying that they cant do it. But under Johnson it is going to be a lot to learn.

 

This is a great point that I didn't even consider. Howell never seemed comfortable under center. 

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

This is a great post. Johnson ran more play action from under center than any other OC in the league this year. Brings into question how WIlliams, Maye and Daniels could adjust to that. None of them have a ton of tape under center. And Maye has zero that I could find. Whichever rookie ends up here is going to have a pretty stiff learning curve when it comes to playing under center. Not saying that they cant do it. But under Johnson it is going to be a lot to learn.

 

I think I saw somewhere he had 4 reps under center.  But in general as you know these days most college QBs are out of the gun.

 

Whether its deserved or not, Ben Johnson is billed for being a chameleon as to his style.  A hybrid from multiple influences.  And was applauded for finding a scheme that works for Goff as to forcing him into a specific scheme.

 

So I'd presume the same point applies for whatever QB is here.

Edited January 20 by Skinsinparadise

[HTTRDynasty]

Yeah, here it is. 
 

 

[ThatNFLChick]

15 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Yeah, here it is. 
 

 

 

This must just be for 2023. Daniels took snaps from under center when he was at Arizona State but either way, that's going to be a transition for whatever QB that is chosen. We have seen the struggle with QBs trying to make the adjustment.

 

 

Edited January 20 by ThatNFLChick

[HigSkin]

You would think if they go with a young, first year HC then they'd be looking for more experienced coordinators like a Gregg Williams, etc. (example)

 

https://www.the33rdteam.com/why-nfl-head-coaches-need-complementary-coordinators/

 

Why NFL Head Coaches Need Complementary Coordinators

By Bill Parcels

 

As we go through another NFL coach hiring cycle, I’m reminded that the attrition rate for head coaches is around 25% annually. If you compare pro football to other industries, there aren't a lot of them with that much CEO turnover each year.

 

When you see all of that firing, followed by all of the hirings it leads to, you have to look at some of the reasons for the attrition, starting with how those decisions are being made in the first place. Doing it right is sometimes difficult for the people doing the hiring.

 

Based on first-hand experience and many years observing the game, I think the single most important aspect for a head coach hiring a coordinator is to find a counterpart on the opposite side of his degree of expertise. The guys that can do that well have had more sustained success than the guys that can’t. The guys that can’t are always changing coordinators. They’re changing this and that, and the program never gets settled and structured.

 

No matter what side of the ball his expertise comes from, the head coach has to coach the whole team in terms of leadership, structure and discipline. If the head coach has a degree of expertise, say, on the offensive side, he can fix that offense if he has to, and if he has the right counterpart on defense, that coach can do the same on that side.

 

In my case as a head coach, I needed to find a coordinator with a strong degree of expertise in offense because my special area was defense. With the New York Giants, I was fortunate enough to find an offensive coordinator named Ron Erhardt, who was someone I had worked for and knew well. Having been a head coach himself, Erhardt contributed significantly to our operation.

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

For the draft people, @Koolblue13, looks like Ben Johnson likes TEs who can block, too versus the F type TE.  It's common when teams target players in the draft that they at least review them with the coordinators.  I know Washington, did based on reports.

 

https://www.detroitlions.com/news/camp-notes-how-laporta-is-earning-first-team-reps-with-lions-offense

 

Johnson said he can't wait until the pads come on and even more is put on his rookie tight end's plate to see how he responds.

"It's a position that, if you cannot block and deal with the physicality, then in all offenses, the value goes down," Johnson said. "Tight ends that can't block really are glorified receivers and that's really a lot of Sam's value that he had at Iowa was the ability to do both, be a pass catcher and also a run blocker. So, looking forward to seeing that versatility come to life when we do get the pads on."

Edited January 20 by Skinsinparadise

[clskinsfan]

9 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

This must just be for 2023. Daniels took snaps from under center when he was at Arizona State

Yep. And caleb took them some at Oklahoma as well. But as SIP said being under center is not really a think in college anymore. And we will get to see them all under center at their pro days as well.

[Command The 414]

4 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

You would think if they go with a young, first year HC then they'd be looking for more experienced coordinators like a Gregg Williams, etc. (example)

 

https://www.the33rdteam.com/why-nfl-head-coaches-need-complementary-coordinators/

 

Why NFL Head Coaches Need Complementary Coordinators

By Bill Parcels

 

As we go through another NFL coach hiring cycle, I’m reminded that the attrition rate for head coaches is around 25% annually. If you compare pro football to other industries, there aren't a lot of them with that much CEO turnover each year.

 

When you see all of that firing, followed by all of the hirings it leads to, you have to look at some of the reasons for the attrition, starting with how those decisions are being made in the first place. Doing it right is sometimes difficult for the people doing the hiring.

 

Based on first-hand experience and many years observing the game, I think the single most important aspect for a head coach hiring a coordinator is to find a counterpart on the opposite side of his degree of expertise. The guys that can do that well have had more sustained success than the guys that can’t. The guys that can’t are always changing coordinators. They’re changing this and that, and the program never gets settled and structured.

 

No matter what side of the ball his expertise comes from, the head coach has to coach the whole team in terms of leadership, structure and discipline. If the head coach has a degree of expertise, say, on the offensive side, he can fix that offense if he has to, and if he has the right counterpart on defense, that coach can do the same on that side.

 

In my case as a head coach, I needed to find a coordinator with a strong degree of expertise in offense because my special area was defense. With the New York Giants, I was fortunate enough to find an offensive coordinator named Ron Erhardt, who was someone I had worked for and knew well. Having been a head coach himself, Erhardt contributed significantly to our operation.

 

 

 

 

Wink Martindale come on down… you get to play against the Giants 2 times a season… DaBoll will love that 

[ThatNFLChick]

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

Yep. And caleb took them some at Oklahoma as well. But as SIP said being under center is not really a think in college anymore. And we will get to see them all under center at their pro days as well.

 

Yeah. To be fair, Goff never took snaps under center in college but he's also a vet who had several years of experience in the NFL before moving into Ben Johnson's offense. 

[SoCalSkins]

3 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

I think people are really underestimating Morris. He served two years as Shanahan’s wide receiver coach and passing game coordinator, and then kept that role after Shanahan left for San Fransisco.

 

 

Let’s get the facts straight. Morris was hired as the Assistant Head Coach Defensive backs with Atlanta. He was fired from that role by Dan Quinn who knows a few things about coaching defense. Instead of showing him the door outright, his buddy Kyle made him the Wide Receivers coach as basically a token position to save face. He lost his Assistant Head Coach title and it was a huge demotion. 
 

The fact Kyle didn't take Morris to SF and instead leaned on guys like Saleh and Demico Ryans shows how little Kyle thought of his buddy after their stint in Atlanta. Quinn kept him on because they had just come off a Super Bowl run. Quinn got on the hot seat a year  later and Arthur Blank was looking at the next staff. He was not throwing good money after bad on Quinn. Morris kept that job by default and took over defense after they started 1-7 and had to do a shake up.

 

Let’s not pretend Morris has actually accomplished anything in this league. Sure he won a super bowl after tanking the league’s number 1 defense to 17, but had McVay on the other side to bail him out. McVay who is now basically begging people to solve his Morris problem by hiring him away. He’s an albatross not an asset.
 

So let’s be honest with the facts and not rewrite them as some fanboy fantasy about a redemption story. It’s not. The guy sucks and has been worse every step of the way. 
 

 

Edited January 20 by SoCalSkins

[Skinsinparadise]

Johnson from what I've read many times borrowed concepts Goff was comfortable with in McVay's offense. 

 

https://www.the33rdteam.com/sean-mcvay-rams-offensive-evolution-makes-them-dangerous-playoff-team/

 

The Rams have gone under center just less than 40 percent of the time this season, and they are one of the league’s best offenses while doing it. They rank fifth in EPA per play and first in EPA per dropback under center.

The under-center offense is devastating because the Rams have killed the play-action game. Stafford is just below the league average in overall play-action rate, but the Rams run play-action on 88 percent of his under-center dropbacks. With a league-average 70-30 run-to-pass ratio under center, defenses can’t focus on a tendency.

This is more difficult for defenses because the Rams’ offense looks the same before the snap. One of the Rams’ most-used looks under center is a pre-snap motion from Nacua. 

The Rams will come out in a 2x2 set, and Nacua starts in a condensed split to the tight end side before motioning across the formation to the two-receiver side.

Occasionally, he’ll motion back as the ball is snapped to act as a lead blocker for the Rams’ inside runs. However, when he goes out on a route, the offense shows many different concepts off the same look. 

[RabidFan]

I'm a big NO on bringing Gregg back.  I don't like guys that think their system is the end all be all over players and does not cater to the strength of the players you have.   On the first part it still grinds my gears that he allowed Antonio Pierce to go the the Giants for not really much more money feeling that he can replace him as its the system that works.  He also didn't fight to keep Ryan Clark who was an integral vet sounding board/mentor to Sean Taylor and we got that bodybuilder Laron Landry.   Those two moves alone hurt our defense dramatically.

 

Gimme someone new and flexible to use their roster's strengths for the greater good of the entire unit.

Edited January 20 by RabidFan

[ThatNFLChick]

 

[SoCalSkins]

Just now, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Would be hilarious if they hire Vrabel and he wants Arthur Smith as his OC. 😂 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I bet Jamin Davis would be a great player in Gregg’s scheme.

 

I’m really excited to see Quan/Payne/Allen/Jamin/DeFo in a new (hopefully aggressive) defensive scheme. 

[FootballZombie]

44 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

Oof.

 

Now I gotta start projecting which QBs have the best physical ability to drop back after taking a snap under center since we don't have a lot in the way of actual example.

 

"Yeah, this guy can throw, but does he have oily hips? Can he swivel his head like an owl? Can he crab walk?!"

[CapsSkins]

19 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Let’s get the facts straight. Morris was hired as the Assistant Head Coach Defensive backs with Atlanta. He was fired from that role by Dan Quinn who knows a few things about coaching defense. Instead of showing him the door outright, his buddy Kyle made him the Wide Receivers coach as basically a token position to save face. He lost his Assistant Head Coach title and it was a huge demotion. 
 

The fact Kyle didn't take Morris to SF and instead leaned on guys like Saleh and Demico Ryans shows how little Kyle thought of his buddy after their stint in Atlanta. Quinn kept him on because they had just come off a Super Bowl run. Quinn got on the hot seat a year  later and Arthur Blank was looking at the next staff. He was not throwing good money after bad on Quinn. Morris kept that job by default and took over defense after they started 1-7 and had to do a shake up.

 

Let’s not pretend Morris has actually accomplished anything in this league. Sure he won a super bowl after tanking the league’s number 1 defense to 17, but had McVay on the other side to bail him out. McVay who is now basically begging people to solve his Morris problem by hiring him away. He’s an albatross not an asset.
 

So let’s be honest with the facts and not rewrite them as some fanboy fantasy about a redemption story. It’s not. The guy sucks and has been worse every step of the way. 
 

 

 

Whenever a staff is begging teams to hire one of their guys, I'm always leery. 

 

Dan Campbell didn't spend 3 minutes of a press conference making an impassioned case for Ben Johnson. As far as I'm aware, Kyle Shanahan didn't spend 3 minutes of a press conference begging Houston to take DeMeco Ryans. True top candidates don't need a public PR campaign - they let their agents do the stumping behind the scenes. The closest is probably Antonio Pierce and that's a much different situation.

 

The two cases that come to mind are KC & EB, which we saw was a disaster, and now LAR and Raheem. My orientation is that SoCal is right based on the trajectory and that Morris is a great guy who's highly respected but not a great coach.

 

It's basically another Rivera. Players may love him, but that ain't good enough.

[HigSkin]

26 minutes ago, Command The 414 said:

Wink Martindale come on down… you get to play against the Giants 2 times a season… DaBoll will love that 

 

 

He could probably have his choice to face Giants with Commanders, Eagles or Cowboy!

[RVAskins]

3 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Oof.

 

Now I gotta start projecting which QBs have the best physical ability to drop back after taking a snap under center since we don't have a lot in the way of actual example.

 

"Yeah, this guy can throw, but does he have oily hips? Can he swivel his head like an owl? Can he crab walk?!"

 

[clskinsfan]

9 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I bet Jamin Davis would be a great player in Gregg’s scheme.

 

I’m really excited to see Quan/Payne/Allen/Jamin/DeFo in a new (hopefully aggressive) defensive scheme. 

If Vrabel doesnt get a HC gig I would love to have him as our DC. That Parcells/Belichick system is nasty.

[RWJ]

It's going to be interesting to see who the DC is here.  No idea.  I hope it's new blood like Ben Johnson, if he's the hire.