tshile Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 52 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Want to believe they have enough evidence to prove this...Bibi basically would have to be careful which country he visits as they help send him to The Hauge... Meh. I’m sure they have enough evidence. the problem is it’s sort of a joke. Israel doesn’t sign onto the ICC. Neither do we. Hamas is a terrorist organization. Muslim countries are not going to turn them over. We already have US senators that went threatening letters about this. my bet is dog and pony show that means nothing. I’ve been saying for a while the whole thing is a joke - guess here’s the chance to see if I’m right or wrong. My bet is this will have the same result as ES collectively issuing warrants for their arrest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 12 minutes ago, tshile said: Meh. I’m sure they have enough evidence. the problem is it’s sort of a joke. Israel doesn’t sign onto the ICC. Neither do we. Hamas is a terrorist organization. Muslim countries are not going to turn them over. We already have US senators that went threatening letters about this. my bet is dog and pony show that means nothing. I’ve been saying for a while the whole thing is a joke - guess here’s the chance to see if I’m right or wrong. My bet is this will have the same result as ES collectively issuing warrants for their arrest. If you only find value in folks being arrested, I can see why you feel that way. This is far as the existing process is allowed to go, but it does establish that an International body has enough evidence to press for charges of war crimes versus folks jus debating on the Internet. These accusations have different level of validity now, even if there's still not enough teeth to put them in jail. Bibi has a thing with going to different countries to make his case...that list of countries he's welcome to do that is shrinking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 49 minutes ago, tshile said: We already have US senators that went threatening letters about this. Oh, I'm pretty sure there will be a show vote, to expell the UN from the US. The Republicans love to threaten that, every few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/21/media/israel-gaza-live-camera-shut-down/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 A woke argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 Ix spending his morning filling the forum with clips of Maher on The View is very on-brand for him. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 https://www.yahoo.com/news/norways-prime-minister-says-norway-064201208.html Norway, Spain, Ireland will recognize a Palestinian state.... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted May 22 Author Share Posted May 22 GWOT part 2.0 One side is calling for the annihilation of the Jews. The other is calling for the annilihation of Hamas and actually annihilating "Hamas" as in a lot of men and women and children, who we have no idea are actually Hamas. Let me just throw this out here. I know it is apples and oranges. December 5, 2001, the United States formed an Afghanistan government. Less than 3 months after 9/11. December 9, 2001, the Taliban collapsed. By this metric, Israel is doing a really horrible job of getting rid of Hamas. We invaded Iraq in March 2003, deposed Saddam in April and established the Coalition Provisional Authority in May. Again, apples and oranges... but shouldn't we start to question how effective they ace at "destroying Hamas"? An enemy that they have known about. Right in their backyard? Sure. United States had allies there. But so does Israel. THEMSELVES. Just take over the WB and Gaza and try your best to run it democratically like America. One state it under the UN (or unilaterally) until Palestine gets their act together. Try to actually do them good and you will do yourselves good. This is what America did, as best as possible... Stop bombing them and run the country... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 2 hours ago, Fergasun said: GWOT part 2.0 One side is calling for the annihilation of the Jews. The other is calling for the annilihation of Hamas and actually annihilating "Hamas" as in a lot of men and women and children, who we have no idea are actually Hamas. Let me just throw this out here. I know it is apples and oranges. December 5, 2001, the United States formed an Afghanistan government. Less than 3 months after 9/11. December 9, 2001, the Taliban collapsed. By this metric, Israel is doing a really horrible job of getting rid of Hamas. We invaded Iraq in March 2003, deposed Saddam in April and established the Coalition Provisional Authority in May. Again, apples and oranges... but shouldn't we start to question how effective they ace at "destroying Hamas"? An enemy that they have known about. Right in their backyard? I think that has been the point Biden has been trying to make to Israel. They aren’t listening though. 2 hours ago, Fergasun said: Sure. United States had allies there. But so does Israel. THEMSELVES. Just take over the WB and Gaza and try your best to run it democratically like America. One state it under the UN (or unilaterally) until Palestine gets their act together. Try to actually do them good and you will do yourselves good. This is what America did, as best as possible... Stop bombing them and run the country... I think the problem with your plan is that there are other countries like Egypt and Iran and other powerful actors like Hezbollah that would probably have a military reaction to Israel unilaterally annexing Gaza and Westbank, even with the promise of democracy. They give no ****s about democracy. And there is zero chance the UN will vote to give Israel control over those two areas. Why would they? Israel has “governed” parts of West Bank in the past and currently but they haven’t been equitable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted May 23 Author Share Posted May 23 @CousinsCowgirl84 Read a little bit here: https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/menasource/gaza-israel-occupied-international-law/ I would argue the only way to effectively destroy Hamas is to effectively rule, occupy, take over Gaza. Israel is trying to have its cake and eat it. It displaced 85% of 1.7M people in Gaza. They have effective control of Gaza. Why are our politicians not pointing out the obvious in way I did? Because they cling to their partisan/biased talking points. Our "politics" is an endless, stupid PR campaign. And does Faisal hate Israel because they are Jewish or because they killed half of his family? Why is this never a consideration either? Should Israel never be asked to win their hearts and minds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 (edited) 1 hour ago, Fergasun said: @CousinsCowgirl84 Read a little bit here: https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/menasource/gaza-israel-occupied-international-law/ I would argue the only way to effectively destroy Hamas is to effectively rule, occupy, take over Gaza. … Should Israel never be asked to win their hearts and minds? So you honestly think annexing Gaza and the West Bank will win hearts and minds? Edited May 23 by CousinsCowgirl84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 (edited) 2 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: So you honestly think annexing Gaza and the West Bank will win hearts and minds? If it it means the Palestinians will get Israeli citizenship and same level of access as everyone else in the country, eventually. One state would be sharing the land, but idealistic considering Israel is showing it doesn't want to do this. The real having their cake and eating it to is right in our face expanding their settlements while blocking Palestinian sovereignty. Israel is showing they want the land but without the Palestinians in it. Without significant outside investment an independent Palestine would be a dilapidated third-world country prime for sabatoge from the Iranian proxy groups. I respect the Afghanistan and Iraq examples, but Iraq is borderline a proxy state of Iran now and Taliban took back Afghantain. Can't just acknowledge their sovereignty and leave them for dead, a more disconcerting allegory would be Haiti. Even Israeli trying to prop them up by themselves is mistake US made with Iraq and Afghanistan...the world is talking a good game but needs fo shown up on what they pushing for once its done. Splitting Sudan in half now looks stupid because now instead of one country in chaos there's two. I hate to say this, but it feels like worst case scenario is inevitable...Israeli will own being a pariah now having the military capability to defend itself from its neighbors. What's happening in Gaza will eventually happen in the West Bank. If their neighbors are ready to make reconciliation deals with them as part of accepting this, good luck getting sanctions on them to slow them down. FAFO Israel feeds off "them against the world"... Edited May 23 by Renegade7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 (edited) I feel like Biden’s legacy will be impacted by the Gaza crisis and most of the country either thinks he's doing too little or too much to help Israel. he can't win bitter minds any way who are already convinced he is "genocide Joe" Edited May 23 by ixcuincle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long n Left Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 1 hour ago, ixcuincle said: is "genocide Joe" Dude, you need a social media intervention, stat! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 You mean like the many other times Israel has offered reasonable deals only to see them rejected by Hamas? That's not excusing the wanton civilian violence, but still. Do you think Hamas is interested in the cessation of violence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 https://www.mmaweekly.com/news/khabib-nurmagomedov-makes-desperate-plea-to-donald-trump Gaza has been at war for an increasing amount of time, and the pain and suffering only seems to be elevating. While meeting Donald Trump in attendance at UFC 302 on Saturday, Khabib Nurmagomedov urged the former United States President to do everything in his power to bring an end to the war. Khabib is just one of the many UFC fighters past and present that are hoping to see the Israel-Hamas feud come to an end. The conflict has been ongoing for almost an entire year, with no signs of it slowing down anytime soon. In hopes of speeding up the process and making peace for the Palastinian's in an escalating war, Khabib Nurmagomedov pounced on his chance to ask Donald Trump for help. 'The Eagle' suggested that Trump should aid in stopping the war in Palestine, to which Trump agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 Not angry, jus disappointed I'm not suprised... Israel Secretly Targets U.S. Lawmakers With Influence Campaign on Gaza War https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/05/technology/israel-campaign-gaza-social-media.html?smid=nytcore-android-share Quote The campaign began in October and remains active on the platform X. At its peak, it used hundreds of fake accounts that posed as real Americans on X, Facebook and Instagram to post pro-Israel comments. The accounts focused on U.S. lawmakers, particularly ones who are Black and Democrats, such as Representative Hakeem Jeffries, the House minority leader from New York, and Senator Raphael Warnock of Georgia, with posts urging them to continue funding Israel’s military. ChatGPT, the artificial intelligence-powered chatbot, was used to generate many of the posts. The campaign also created three fake English-language news sites featuring pro-Israel articles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 Wow, Hamas rejects another Israeli ceasefire? Shocking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 Hamas has no cards to play except to drag this out which requires holding the hostages in hopes Israel agrees to a permanent cease fire and withdrawal or international pressure forced them to withdrawal. Israel is never going to agree to that. So it’s cute people get hopeful/excited about ceasefire talks but a basic understanding of reality tells you it’s not possible at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 The sad reality is that I'm not sure how many hostages are still around. Israel announced the other day they found 3 of them and it looked like they were already dead for months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 I'd be surprised if more than a handful are even alive at this point, if they ever were back in November. I understand supporting the Palestinian cause to an extent, but it's sad that their supporters don't seem to think that taking hostages, who were just civilians, is wrong. None of this is going to change if/until Hamas renounces its stated mission to destroy Israel (not likely) or is entirely destroyed (more likely, but with 100k+ civilian deaths to go along with it). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 2 hours ago, BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen said: I'd be surprised if more than a handful are even alive at this point, if they ever were back in November. I understand supporting the Palestinian cause to an extent, but it's sad that their supporters don't seem to think that taking hostages, who were just civilians, is wrong. None of this is going to change if/until Hamas renounces its stated mission to destroy Israel (not likely) or is entirely destroyed (more likely, but with 100k+ civilian deaths to go along with it). Israeli government intelligence is pretty good. I don’t think they would be negotiating if they thought all the prisoners were dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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