Official Offensive Line Thread

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Conn said:

Neither of those OT prospects are generational. It’s an extremely deep OL class, we’ll get a good one in the 2nd round. We had arguably two HOF caliber LT’s back to back during our long QB drought and never accomplished a thing. 
 

We have a lot of resources to improve the OL. It won’t all happen in one year, but it also doesn’t require the #2 overall pick to fix. We have a ton of cap space and draft picks over the next couple years to work on the OL. We only have one single resource that can semi-reliably gift you a franchise QB. 

Look at you dropping the logic.

 

The thing is, we have actually spent a number of mid-round picks on OL.  The issue is we really haven't hit on any of them in any meaningful way.  

 

Building through the draft is fine and dandy if you draft well and develop well.

 

Something like 85% of our team last year were our draft picks.  We just sucked at drafting.  And were worse at development.

 

Hopefully with this staff we draft better and develop better.  

[El Mexican]

On 3/4/2024 at 9:13 PM, Conn said:

Neither of those OT prospects are generational. It’s an extremely deep OL class, we’ll get a good one in the 2nd round. We had arguably two HOF caliber LT’s back to back during our long QB drought and never accomplished a thing. 
 

We have a lot of resources to improve the OL. It won’t all happen in one year, but it also doesn’t require the #2 overall pick to fix. We have a ton of cap space and draft picks over the next couple years to work on the OL. We only have one single resource that can semi-reliably gift you a franchise QB. 

 

We'll just to have to differ on that one, friend. Both of those tackles WILL be taken very high up in the draft. They are elite and are "safe picks".

Most draft experts say so. Any two of those guys (Alt or Fashanu) will be NFL stalwarts for years.

 

Our QB draft record is terrible.

We've drafted just one decent to very good QB here in the past 20+ years (Cousins) and he was more of an "insurance" if RG3 imploded (he did).

 

I have to stress that we allowed the most sacks ever in franchise history last season.

 

[Conn]

1 hour ago, El Mexican said:

 

We'll just to have to differ on that one, friend. Both of those tackles WILL be taken very high up in the draft. They are elite and are "safe picks".

Most draft experts say so. Any two of those guys (Alt or Fashanu) will be NFL stalwarts for years.

 

Our QB draft record is terrible.

We've drafted just one decent to very good QB here in the past 20+ years (Cousins) and he was more of an "insurance" if RG3 imploded (he did).

 

I have to stress that we allowed the most sacks ever in franchise history last season.

 

Why does it matter what our QB draft record is? None of those people are here anymore. For the first time in decades, it’s a new dawn for us. Like a normal franchise. 
 

Oh the other hand, if we’re using your logic—our elite LT draft record in the top-5 in recent decades has been excellent. We have nothing to show for it. Zip. Zilch. Nada. 
 

If you believe it’s a new day with new decision-makers, then they have a chance to build around a QB with all their resources. Right? If you don’t believe it’s a new day, and any QB we draft will bust under foreseeable bad circumstances…then who gives a **** what position we draft anyways. I’d personally find it hard to care if I thought that a new Owner, FO, GM, HC, coaching staff, etc. changed nothing for our fortunes. 

[El Mexican]

6 hours ago, Conn said:

Why does it matter what our QB draft record is? None of those people are here anymore. For the first time in decades, it’s a new dawn for us. Like a normal franchise. 
 

Oh the other hand, if we’re using your logic—our elite LT draft record in the top-5 in recent decades has been excellent. We have nothing to show for it. Zip. Zilch. Nada. 
 

If you believe it’s a new day with new decision-makers, then they have a chance to build around a QB with all their resources. Right? If you don’t believe it’s a new day, and any QB we draft will bust under foreseeable bad circumstances…then who gives a **** what position we draft anyways. I’d personally find it hard to care if I thought that a new Owner, FO, GM, HC, coaching staff, etc. changed nothing for our fortunes. 

 

Your logic is sound, bro. I get it.

 

I'm just stressing that our O-line was historically bad last season.

It needs a HUGE revamp that starts with young triple A players.

 

Why bring a shiny rookie QB if you can't even keep him upright?

 

The new FO has a great challenge.

It needs to both start with a bang and convince the fans they know what the heck they are doing and that starts this year's draft and the O-line.

[Warhead36]

We have 90 Mil in cap room and four other picks in the top 100 to address OL. Calm.

[El Mexican]

11 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

We have 90 Mil in cap room and four other picks in the top 100 to address OL. Calm.

 

No Alt or Fashanu sends the wrong message to the hypothetical rook.

 

"Yeah you know we took you to be our our savior. Do you magic with our crappy O-line".

[Destino]

On 3/6/2024 at 8:40 AM, Warhead36 said:

We have 90 Mil in cap room and four other picks in the top 100 to address OL. Calm.

Not as much FA activity as I was hoping for. Got a center lost a tackle. Still a weak line.

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, Destino said:

Not as much FA activity as I was hoping for. Got a center lost a tackle. Still a weak line.

We only lost Leno who is probably gonna retire anyway due to the hip surgery. We gained a good C and a solid depth G. My guess is T will be addressed in the draft as the T market was pretty dry in FA.

[Est.1974]

Still need 3 additions 

 

Starting LT

Starting / or at the very least, competition for RT

IOL depth

 

[Destino]

20 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

We only lost Leno who is probably gonna retire anyway due to the hip surgery. We gained a good C and a solid depth G. My guess is T will be addressed in the draft as the T market was pretty dry in FA.

Starting LT isn’t a small deal, but so far we have just a single upgrade and most free agents are spoken for.

[Est.1974]

The time to have OT concerns would be if we are in the same situation after the draft

[Bifflog]

12 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

The time to have OT concerns would be if we are in the same situation after the draft

 

Someone mentioned in the FA thread that we didn't acquire Leno until May 15 of the 2021 season.  I'd be surprised if this regime doesn't find answers, but we'll see.

[Destino]

49 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

The time to have OT concerns would be if we are in the same situation after the draft

That’s almost certain. Even if they go LT in the second round, that’s not a can’t miss prospect. Anything in the later rounds is as likely to be mediocre as good. Especially in year one.

 

we need a major upgrade to the line this season. Otherwise you’re throwing a rookie QB to the wolves. I was hoping to see at least two upgrades in FA. 

[skinny21]

23 minutes ago, Destino said:

That’s almost certain. Even if they go LT in the second round, that’s not a can’t miss prospect. Anything in the later rounds is as likely to be mediocre as good. Especially in year one.

 

we need a major upgrade to the line this season. Otherwise you’re throwing a rookie QB to the wolves. I was hoping to see at least two upgrades in FA. 

I hear you.

Well, on one hand, you could argue they have upgraded 2 spots - C and LG - and frankly, that could be the case even if one doesn’t see Allegretti as starting caliber (Charles and Paul were pretty bad).  Of course, they also (depending on how you view it) downgraded LT, lol.

 

To be fair, both tackle spots were always going to be a bit difficult to upgrade via FA with high demand, low supply, and particularly with an eye toward responsible spending.  Still a lot of remaining time/ways to address oline including FA, trades, the draft (including trading up), post draft roster cuts.  Here’s hoping we feel a lot better about the line by the start of the season!

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Destino said:

That’s almost certain. Even if they go LT in the second round, that’s not a can’t miss prospect. Anything in the later rounds is as likely to be mediocre as good. Especially in year one.

 

we need a major upgrade to the line this season. Otherwise you’re throwing a rookie QB to the wolves. I was hoping to see at least two upgrades in FA. 

I posted something similar to this in the FA thread, but there wasn't much they could do at tackle except overpay for mediocrity or sign a guy who's most likely going to get hurt.

 

I like the depth signing for Allegretti.  And they got a center.  They re-signed Lucas. 

 

I am convinced they are going to do 2 things:

1. They are going to sign another LT, probably after teams make the next round of cuts after the draft.  There's always a guy or two.  That's how we got Leno.  

2. They're going to draft somebody either at 36 or trade up to get a guy.

 

There is no such thing as a sure prospect.  And even with FA, a lot of FAs never reach the level they had on their former team.

 

I do think they're stuck with Wylie at RT.  They aren't going to want 2 rookie tackles + a rookie QB if they can avoid it.  And there really wasn't a great option to upgrade Wylie in FA.

 

Ron screwed everybody with his roster malpractice.  Shrug. 

 

I do think better coaching and scheme will help a lot.  Also, if they draft Maye, he's pretty good already at having the back foot hit and throw the ball on time. That would help.

 

And if we draft Daniels, when pressure comes, he'll just run.  

 

Again.  Shrug.  

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

Really concerned about Wylie. There were times where my jaw practically hit the ground last season , watching him. Bad isn't the word for it. Hideous, atrocious, egregious, ludicrous, preposterous, inexplicably terrible might suffice. It was really, really bad at times. I would love an upgrade and a demotion to the bench for him but not sure if that will happen.

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

Really concerned about Wylie. There were times where my jaw practically hit the ground last season , watching him. Bad isn't the word for it. Hideous, atrocious, egregious, ludicrous, preposterous, inexplicably terrible might suffice. It was really, really bad at times. I would love an upgrade and a demotion to the bench for him but not sure if that will happen.

Wylie is an interesting case. Advanced metrics suggest he wasn't really that bad. He was more along the lines of league average in terms of how often he got beat.

 

The problem is that when he got beat, he got beat BAD. It wasn't like a hard fought battle where another guy beats him. He would often just straight up whiff on a guy.

 

I'd prefer to move him inside but since we signed a LG and haven't signed any Ts, good chance he's our starting RT this year.

[MrJL]

On 3/20/2024 at 1:18 PM, Warhead36 said:

Wylie is an interesting case. Advanced metrics suggest he wasn't really that bad. He was more along the lines of league average in terms of how often he got beat.

 

The problem is that when he got beat, he got beat BAD. It wasn't like a hard fought battle where another guy beats him. He would often just straight up whiff on a guy.

 

I'd prefer to move him inside but since we signed a LG and haven't signed any Ts, good chance he's our starting RT this year.

maybe we'll swap him and Cosmi

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

Interesting. Cornelius Lucas says that he realizes that he has been a swing tackle the last four years but he wants to start! Says that he will compete and try to win the job. Who knows, maybe he will accomplish becoming the starting LT.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

6 hours ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

Interesting. Cornelius Lucas says that he realizes that he has been a swing tackle the last four years but he wants to start! Says that he will compete and try to win the job. Who knows, maybe he will accomplish becoming the starting LT.

 

He'll get that opportunity and will likely win as a 2nd round rookie probably needs a bit more time to fix glaring mistakes. Who ends the season as a starter is TBD. But Lucas and Wylie are opening day starters. There's a limit to what we could fix, at least the IOL shouldn't be a massive weakness.

[Rex Tomb]

I'm still convinced we will likely go with the best T we can find in the second round.

[Scotty doesn't know]

I’m growing more accepting of Lucas s the starting LT. So many of our backup players leave and thrive on over teams like Lorenzo Alexander, Chris Clemons, etc because they never got the opportunity. Why not allow that to happen here for once

[Conn]

40 minutes ago, Scotty doesn't know said:

I’m growing more accepting of Lucas s the starting LT. So many of our backup players leave and thrive on over teams like Lorenzo Alexander, Chris Clemons, etc because they never got the opportunity. Why not allow that to happen here for once

I’m not saying this would have been the case with Lucas if he hit FA, but your memory is extremely selective here. The vast, vast, vast majority of our backup/depth players throughout the Snyder era went on to do nothing. Our starters mostly drunk so our depth was even worse. Very few of our depth/rotational guys ever ended up being hidden gems that did better elsewhere, you’re remembering the exceptions. 
 

i expect that to change going forward btw. Just saying that it didn’t happen often in the past. 

Edited March 24 by Conn

[MrJL]

1 hour ago, Conn said:

I’m not saying this would have been the case with Lucas if he hit FA, but your memory is extremely selective here. The vast, vast, vast majority of our backup/depth players throughout the Snyder era went on to do nothing. Our starters mostly drunk so our depth was even worse. Very few of our depth/rotational guys ever ended up being hidden gems that did better elsewhere, you’re remembering the exceptions. 
 

i expect that to change going forward btw. Just saying that it didn’t happen often in the past. 

the backups who failed never signed anywhere else after they left.  The ones who were picked up did decent

[skinny21]

Man, they’ve really revamped our interior.  Allegretti/Deiter/Stromberg fighting for LG (as well as Cosmi’s backup), and along with Biadacz, the latter 2 give us 3 legit center options. Glad they re-signed Lucas.  Now hopefully they can add one or two more tackles in the draft…