2024 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[RWJ]

Just now, KDawg said:

Yes.

A shame a lot of talent wasted.  

[JamesMadisonSkins]

It's possible, too, that Antonio Gibson doesn't have a robust FA market and comes back here on a modest extension. I think he could be a perfect 3db on this offense with a proper OL. Given we have boatloads of money to spend in FA, the FO might opt to bring back Gibby and continue with our trio of Robinson-Gibson-Rodriguez in hopes that an improved OL improves our overall running attack. 

[Bantu]

I'm not one of those "the o-line is terrible, hence improvement there is all Howell needs to show he's THE guy" etc., etc. I'm also not a "I know" Howell isn't the answer guy, either. I'm open to possibilities and open to consider whatever the new GM's philosophy might be

 

All that being said, out of the "consensus" blue chip non-QB's, it is REALLY hard not to like Fashanu from Penn State as a great fit and centerpiece for years and years to come. Love Harrison and Bowers, don't get me wrong... I know people want to make BOLD moves, but Fashanu seems like as safe a pick you can make in the top 5 at a premium position that any team would gladly pony up the cash to sign to a 2nd contract if they pan out.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Bantu

[method man]

23 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

It's possible, too, that Antonio Gibson doesn't have a robust FA market and comes back here on a modest extension. I think he could be a perfect 3db on this offense with a proper OL. Given we have boatloads of money to spend in FA, the FO might opt to bring back Gibby and continue with our trio of Robinson-Gibson-Rodriguez in hopes that an improved OL improves our overall running attack. 

You can justify bringing Gibby back as a KR at a minimum. I think of him as a poor man’s Cordarelle Patterson

[Skinsinparadise]

Was listening to Jay on Standig's podcast about the roster.  He lets all it loose because he has nothing to lose.  Some interesting points hearing it from his perspective. Most of which echoes many of our points

 

A.  He admits this team, including who he drafted, didn't get elite talent.   He thinks Allen and Payne are very good players but they aren't game wreckers like Chris Jones or Donald, etc.  Ditto Terry.  

 

B.  He thinks on defense the main needs are edge and corner.  then LB.

 

C.  He thinks this team needs a tall WR

 

D.  He's been on the lack of TE talent all season.  He loves Bowers and likes him as a pick.

 

E. He thinks O line needs an upgrade especially the interior

 

He's a big fan of adding elite talent.  You work the rest of the roster around elite talent.  The great teams tend to have some elite players.  Interesting to hear him say that while also admitting that both his regime and Ron's didn't find elite guys.

 

He likes Howell a lot but doesn't rule out a QB if they love one.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[method man]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Was listening to Jay on Standig's podcast about the roster.  He lets all it loose because he has nothing to lose.  Some interesting points hearing it from his perspective. Most of which echoes many of our points

 

A.  He admits this team, including who he drafted, didn't get elite talent.   He thinks Allen and Payne are very good players but they aren't game wreckers like Chris Jones or Donald, etc.  Ditto Terry.  

 

B.  He thinks on defense the main needs are edge and corner.  then LB.

 

C.  He thinks this team needs a tall WR

 

D.  He's been on the lack of TE talent all season.  He loves Bowers and likes him as a pick.

 

E. He thinks O line needs an upgrade especially the interior

 

He's a big fan of adding elite talent.  You work the rest of the roster around elite talent.  The great teams tend to have some elite players.  Interesting to hear him say that while also admitting that both his regime and Ron's didn't find elite guys.

 

He likes Howell a lot but doesn't rule out a QB if they love one.

This perspective around elite talent is where I’ve landed as well. Most of the contending teams seem to have at least 4 blue chip players. A major reason a team like the Jags won’t breakthrough is because they have 0 blue chip players (maybe Etienne is an exception)

[RedskininATL]

2 minutes ago, method man said:

This perspective around elite talent is where I’ve landed as well. Most of the contending teams seem to have at least 4 blue chip players. A major reason a team like the Jags won’t breakthrough is because they have 0 blue chip players (maybe Etienne is an exception)

 

May not be having his best year... but Lawrence is blue chip.   Maybe 4-5 teams in the league who wouldn't take him over what they currently have.   

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I'm starting to approach the off-season in a certain way in my mind ...

 

Go all-in on the offense. Including an offensive minded HC. Scrap-heap/piece together the defense for 2024. This can be done well if you have a quality DC and an analytical FO.

 

What does this mean when it comes to the draft? Load up on talent and prioritize the offense over the defense. In FA, balance it out, bring in pieces on defense, but spend wisely and get a bunch of "analytic" type of free agents that can be coached up to be decent without blowing a lot of cap space.

 

Have the goal be a Top 12 offense in 2024 and a defense that isn't in the bottom 1/4.

 

How does this play out? In Free Agency, get a solid S, CB, LB and DE that don't break the bank. In the draft, do not target defense before Round 3 Pick 2. From then on, grab all sorts of pieces on defense.

 

On offense, get a premier piece in free agency and spend the first 4 picks on offense.

 

Example draft ... forget the players since surely they'll move all over the place. But the concept. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by JamesMadisonSkins

[RWJ]

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Was listening to Jay on Standig's podcast about the roster.  He lets all it loose because he has nothing to lose.  Some interesting points hearing it from his perspective. Most of which echoes many of our points

 

A.  He admits this team, including who he drafted, didn't get elite talent.   He thinks Allen and Payne are very good players but they aren't game wreckers like Chris Jones or Donald, etc.  Ditto Terry.  

 

B.  He thinks on defense the main needs are edge and corner.  then LB.

 

C.  He thinks this team needs a tall WR

 

D.  He's been on the lack of TE talent all season.  He loves Bowers and likes him as a pick.

 

E. He thinks O line needs an upgrade especially the interior

 

He's a big fan of adding elite talent.  You work the rest of the roster around elite talent.  The great teams tend to have some elite players.  Interesting to hear him say that while also admitting that both his regime and Ron's didn't find elite guys.

 

He likes Howell a lot but doesn't rule out a QB if they love one.

Jay had restrictions as we know in a say in who he wanted because of Sndyer and any HC that was under SnyderAllen.  I give Jay a C grade as a HC.  Agree about OL but we need a complete overhaul minus Cosmi at OG and we don't know what we have in Stromberg.  Wylie is a bust at OT but maybe gives us average play at OG. I think we need to concentrate on two legit OTs and an OG.  Definitely TE and LB.  Howell is THE GUY at QB, hands down to me and get another backup in the 3rd.  I like Pratt from Tulane.  I think we need to move Gibson back to WR; IMO and he'll be more productive and use Robinson and Rodriguez as the horses at RB.  Draft a tall WR and the only decent FAs I see this year are secondary players, so spend the FA money there. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

32 minutes ago, RedskininATL said:

 

May not be having his best year... but Lawrence is blue chip.   Maybe 4-5 teams in the league who wouldn't take him over what they currently have.   

 

Still waiting for Lawrence to live up to his rep and actually become blue chip.  Hasn't happened yet.  

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Jay had restrictions as we know in a say in who he wanted because of Sndyer and any HC that was under SnyderAllen.  I give Jay a C grade as a HC.  Agree about OL but we need a complete overhaul minus Cosmi at OG and we don't know what we have in Stromberg.  Wylie is a bust at OT but maybe gives us average play at OG. I think we need to concentrate on two legit OTs and an OG.  Definitely TE and LB.  Howell is THE GUY at QB, hands down to me and get another backup in the 3rd.  I like Pratt from Tulane.  I think we need to move Gibson back to WR; IMO and he'll be more productive and use Robinson and Rodriguez as the horses at RB.  Draft a tall WR and the only decent FAs I see this year are secondary players, so spend the FA money there. 

 

FA doesn't look bad IMO at safety, edge, CB, LB, WR.   Interior O line is just OK IMO.

 

I liked Gibson even before we took him.  I don't know if its so but Logan Paulsen mentioned that Gibson isn't a good route runner hence he wasn't used as much as people thought they would as a pass catching RB.  I know that sounds weird for a dude who played Wr in college.  But I am not sure Wr is his future spot.  Will see.  I suspect they just let him go in FA. 

 

FA could be interesting.  Under Ron we shoot low in FA, i know Dan has something to do with that but I get the vibe that Ron is part of that too.  I suspect that is going to change.

 

Needs might change post FA.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, DWinzit said:

We definitely need this type of RB. Lloyd is a guy I have looked at some. I am much higher on Henderson. I am not a fan of the dancing in the backfield. Yeah it can lead to a big play (especially in college) like the one clip shows, but in the pros it so often doesn't lead to a good play. While Henderson doesn't just slash to a hole, he shows patience in watching his blocking then ripping.

 

The other thing is your comment about no fumbles. When I saw that I found it incredibly exciting and had to go back to look over his stats, I think he had a few fumbles...unless what I am reading is incorrect. I do however agree that he would fit our team well and that the RB's are not strong but filled with day 3 talent. I am hoping the same for TE's because their front talent is poor other than Bowers. 

 

This is from ESPN, so you are saying they are wrong I assume as for fumbles?  I did read one of the average YPC wrong.

 

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[philibusters]

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I'm starting to approach the off-season in a certain way in my mind ...

 

Go all-in on the offense. Including an offensive minded HC. Scrap-heap/piece together the defense for 2024. This can be done well if you have a quality DC and an analytical FO.

 

What does this mean when it comes to the draft? Load up on talent and prioritize the offense over the defense. In FA, balance it out, bring in pieces on defense, but spend wisely and get a bunch of "analytic" type of free agents that can be coached up to be decent without blowing a lot of cap space.

 

Have the goal be a Top 12 offense in 2024 and a defense that isn't in the bottom 1/4.

 

How does this play out? In Free Agency, get a solid S, CB, LB and DE that don't break the bank. In the draft, do not target defense before Round 3 Pick 2. From then on, grab all sorts of pieces on defense.

 

On offense, get a premier piece in free agency and spend the first 4 picks on offense.

 

Example draft ... forget the players since surely they'll move all over the place. But the concept. 

 

 

Its funny to see Graham Mertz at 197.  A couple years ago SIP liked him very early in the process and I commented that Mertz isn't even a good college football yet even if he does make some nice throw.  I think Mertz is a good college player now (he transferred from Wisconsin to Florida), but he actually probably had more hype a few years ago (when he was living off his HS ranking).  Bo Nix is a similar case, but the difference between Nix and Mertz is Mertz has had one good season now whereas Nix has put together back to back good seasons.  But Nix had two seasons as a starter at Auburn before he transferred where he was not good player yet.    Guys definitely do develop in college.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

@philibusters I’m pretty sure he’s gonna stay in school anyway. He could be more highly sought after next year. Florida fans seemed to really like him this year too. I bet he goes back. 

[Chump Bailey]

New site for me that may be of use to my fellow ES draft nerds: https://bnbfootball.com/2024-nfl-draft/wide-receiver-rankings/

[Warhead36]

I agree with going all in on offense. Defenses tend to fluctuate in today's NFL anyway and if your offense is really good, you can piece together a defense built around blitzing with a lead and just kinda concede bad run defense(I think with Payne and Allen we'll always be pretty solid in run defense).

[Chump Bailey]

Trey Benson Florida State is another RB I like.

[DWinzit]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

This is from ESPN, so you are saying they are wrong I assume as for fumbles?  I did read one of the average YPC wrong.

 

 

I find it impressive if he had no fumbles to go with his talents as I mentioned.

It's funny, I went back through to find where I saw that he fumbled and had a hard time locating it. I have no idea if it is accurate but I did find a mention in below, they are usually okay with their basic info although I see slight differences. 

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/MarShawn-Lloyd-RB-SouthCarolina

 

In 2021 as a freshman Lloyd saw action in 12 games for the Game****s as he ran for 228 yards on 64 attempts for just 3.6 yards per carry, with one TD, with 3 fumbles. As a receiver he made just 3 receptions for 44 yards.

As a sophomore in 2022 he played 9 games. and rushed for 565 yards on 110 carries for an excellent 5.1 ypc, with 9 TDs, with 2 fumbles. In the passing game he pulled in 18 receptions for 173 yards.

[Est.1974]

5 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

It's possible, too, that Antonio Gibson doesn't have a robust FA market and comes back here on a modest extension. I think he could be a perfect 3db on this offense with a proper OL. Given we have boatloads of money to spend in FA, the FO might opt to bring back Gibby and continue with our trio of Robinson-Gibson-Rodriguez in hopes that an improved OL improves our overall running attack. 

We should not even consider bringing Gibson back. He’s not very good and can’t be trusted with the ball.

[Forehead]

I can't figure out how to share my draft results from PFF, but I didn't bother with trades, just went straight up with the picks as they came.

 

5 - Fashanu, OT - Penn State

36 - Fautanu, OG - Washington

38 - Tuimoloau, Edge - Ohio State

70 - Guyton, OT - Oklahoma

96 - Corley, WR - Western Kentucky

101 - Eichenberg, LB - Ohio State

132 - Mondon, LB - Georgia

166 - Baron, Edge - Tennessee (I don't actually know who this guy is)

197 - Warren, TE - Penn State (Homer pick, but he catches TD's.  Also, he is Donnie Warren's kid.  He isn't really, but you believed me for a second because his last name is Warren and he plays TE)

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

I find it impressive if he had no fumbles to go with his talents as I mentioned.

It's funny, I went back through to find where I saw that he fumbled and had a hard time locating it. I have no idea if it is accurate but I did find a mention in below, they are usually okay with their basic info although I see slight differences. 

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/MarShawn-Lloyd-RB-SouthCarolina

 

In 2021 as a freshman Lloyd saw action in 12 games for the Game****s as he ran for 228 yards on 64 attempts for just 3.6 yards per carry, with one TD, with 3 fumbles. As a receiver he made just 3 receptions for 44 yards.

As a sophomore in 2022 he played 9 games. and rushed for 565 yards on 110 carries for an excellent 5.1 ypc, with 9 TDs, with 2 fumbles. In the passing game he pulled in 18 receptions for 173 yards.

 

Pro football reference has his fumble numbers at zero, too.

 

No way to know but as to credibility I'l trust ESPN and Pro Football Reference over NFLDraftBuzz. 

[DWinzit]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Pro football reference has his fumble numbers at zero, too.

 

No way to know but as to credibility I'l trust ESPN and Pro Football Reference over NFLDraftBuzz. 

I'd go with ESPN. I checked a few other places finding some didn't list fumbles and others that had him at zippo fumbles! 

 

Moving to a different post of yours, I was surprised Jay identified the IOL opposed to the OT play or all OL as "especially" needing upgrade...Wylie has been piss poor. I still wish they would move him to LG and give Locus a shot at RT.

[Chump Bailey]

I'm a fan of RB Ray Davis Kentucky too. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Marshawn Lloyd and Treveyon Henderson to me both fit the profile of what i want -- a RB who is explosive with speed.  Watching USC some, I am surprised they didn't have a better season. USC has a nice rotational RB group with Marshawn, Quinton Joyner and Austin Jones.  Joyner IMO has some star potential in the future.  Caleb's talent is sick.  It pained me to watch him when watching Marshawn. 

 

Whomever lands Caleb, even though he's a diva, I think will be good in short order.  His off platform ability is out of this world, ditto his arm talent.  I saw one play where he got a bad snap, struggled initially to find the ball, had to go back like 6 yards to retrieve it and then grabbed it under pressure and threw a perfect 30 yard pass off his back foot.  Sick.

 

Freaky how Henderson and Lloyd's numbers are so similar.  Thanks to goading from @DWinzit I only watched both players today.  they both fit the profile of what I believe this team needs as to a rotational back.

 

I'll stick to my take that I like Marshawn a hair over Henderson and its just for one reason.  That is he hits me as more slippery in traffic.  His elusive score from PFF seems to reflect that.  Neither RB is as physical as I'd like.  You can stuff them at the line of scrimmage if there is little daylight.  But both are elusive and slippery in traffic and bounce off defenders.  To my eyes Marshawn has a litle more of that Spiderman in him than Henderson.  I think Henderson is better when he catches the ball in space albiet Lloyd's has the better YPC numbers.  But they both have similar super powers IMO.  Henderson looks to me a little more of a straight line runner versus Lloyd.

 

Neither dude I'd pound the table for to take early.  I don't have any RB that feels that way for me.  But i'd put those two along with Corum in my mix of dudes I'd take early 3rd.  I wouldn't take any of these guys early 2nd.  Late 2nd, maybe. 

 

Neither is Gibbs or Achane as far as explosiveness or speed but i think they are both plenty fast enough.   And ideal 3rd down backs -- they can catch and while I didn't see either block a lot, they seemed fine at it when they did.  Bucky Irving in that mix too, who I've talked about but I worry some about under 200 pound RBs, especially ones from Oregon in the pros.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, DWinzit said:

I'd go with ESPN. I checked a few other places finding some didn't list fumbles and others that had him at zippo fumbles! 

 

Moving to a different post of yours, I was surprised Jay identified the IOL opposed to the OT play or all OL as "especially" needing upgrade...Wylie has been piss poor. I still wish they would move him to LG and give Locus a shot at RT.

 

He's not in love with the tackles either but he thought the interior was worse.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, Forehead said:

I can't figure out how to share my draft results from PFF, but I didn't bother with trades, just went straight up with the picks as they came.

 

5 - Fashanu, OT - Penn State

36 - Fautanu, OG - Washington

38 - Tuimoloau, Edge - Ohio State

70 - Guyton, OT - Oklahoma

96 - Corley, WR - Western Kentucky

101 - Eichenberg, LB - Ohio State

132 - Mondon, LB - Georgia

166 - Baron, Edge - Tennessee (I don't actually know who this guy is)

197 - Warren, TE - Penn State (Homer pick, but he catches TD's.  Also, he is Donnie Warren's kid.  He isn't really, but you believed me for a second because his last name is Warren and he plays TE)

 

I was planning to watching Theo Johnson soon, didn't relalize Penn State has two TEs coming out in this draft that are draftable.

 

Guyton at 70 IMO would be a steal. 

5 hours ago, Chump Bailey said:

Trey Benson Florida State is another RB I like.

 

He's on my watch list