Welcome to the Commanders Jartavius Martin S/CB Illinois Fighting Illini

[method man]

14 minutes ago, bird_1972 said:

 

I forgot about Castro-Fields. We took him off of someone's practice squad (Philly maybe?). In the run up to the draft, he was supposed to be pretty good I think. Would be interesting to see more of him in preseason.

 

Castro-Fields was picked off SF's practice squad. They had to let him go due to the depth they had last year at CB

[“Misdirection”]

There’s a consistent theme of folks breaking down corners lately where we’re discounting interceptions as just QB mistakes or luck and that won’t happen in the NFL. Which is fine and fair. 
 

But it does happen. How many picks in the NFL year to year are a QB staring down, a bad throw, a tipped ball, WR falls down, a hail Mary gone wrong etc.

 

Or, rather, what % of NFL INTs are the result of masterful coverage, baiting a QB, or elite catch-point skills on 50/50? Or however you’d describe INTs we want to give credit for.

[KDawg]

7 hours ago, “Misdirection” said:

There’s a consistent theme of folks breaking down corners lately where we’re discounting interceptions as just QB mistakes or luck and that won’t happen in the NFL. Which is fine and fair. 
 

But it does happen. How many picks in the NFL year to year are a QB staring down, a bad throw, a tipped ball, WR falls down, a hail Mary gone wrong etc.

 

Or, rather, what % of NFL INTs are the result of masterful coverage, baiting a QB, or elite catch-point skills on 50/50? Or however you’d describe INTs we want to give credit for.

Sure. The interception happened. And it gets credited to them, but I’d argue that what we need to get away from is looking at stats in a vacuum.

 

Two QBs can both throw 10 INT. One of them had 6 receiver drops that wound up in a DBs hands, one of them just missed the read and threw it directly to the other team. Are those 10 INTs equally on the QB?

 

The same goes for defense. Anticipatory moves where the DB makes a play on the ball due to being in great positioning versus the DB being in a bad spot and happening to catch it are two entirely different things.

 

The great news is that DB converted the int and got the ball back for his team. Regardless of how. But not all stats are the same.

Edited May 3, 2023 by KDawg

[Spaceman Spiff]

I’ve always felt that picks that bounce off a receiver and are tipped in the air shouldn’t count. Or count as much, like a half interception. If a rusher can get a credit for half a sack, I think QBs, to @KDawg’s point, shouldn’t have all their picks weighted the same. 

[“Misdirection”]

14 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Sure. The interception happened. And it gets credited to them, but I’d argue that what we need to get away from is looking at stats in a vacuum.

 

Two QBs can both throw 10 INT. One of them had 6 receiver drops that wound up in a DBs hands, one of them just missed the read and threw it directly to the other team. Are those 10 INTs equally on the QB?

 

The same goes for defense. Anticipatory moves where the DB makes a play on the ball due to being in great positioning versus the DB being in a bad spot and happening to catch it are two entirely different things.

 

The great news is that DB converted the int and got the ball back for his team. Regardless of how. But not all stats are the same.

We agree on this. I appreciate QBs being graded for things like “interceptable passes”, like when “you know who” led the league last year but they were all dropped lol. 
 

Much like examining pass rush win rate etc.

 

We have some man/zone PFF grades that evaluate stickiness and awareness. But what’s the defense equivalent advanced stat for interceptable throws?

 

 Gotta be a statistical way to separate the Joey Porter/Carlos Roger types from the Forbes/D Hall types in the way of measuring ball skills, aggressiveness, etc. 

 

Have to imagine even the best corners only truly manufacture 3-4 INTs/year by themselves without any flukiness on the play. 
 

sorry my posts here are more ramblings on the statistical possibilities and nuances than disagreement with either of you @KDawg or @Spaceman Spiff lol

[Number 44]

Well, it would be nice to have DBs that actually catch the ball when it's tipped or the QB makes a mistake.  I'm tired of saying, "Oh man, that could have been a pick six."  Then seeing the next play go for a first down for the opponent.

[Skinsinparadise]

As for interceptions, its subjective of course to judge meaningful picks versus not.  For me I look for good hands, good anticipation (like the Forbes pick versus Kentucky), contested catches.

 

For Martin I was impressed if I recall with 2 out of this three picks.  His teammate Sydney Brown had 6 picks, but most of them to my eye were easy types.  QB throwing it right to him without much clutter around him.

 

I just watched another Illionis game to watch Kendall Smith who had 5 picks last season.  He's not easy to watch because he played a lot of post safety and was out of the camera angle but made one killer pick in that game showcasing good range.

 

That game also reinforced my draft man crush on Quan Martin -- he was everywhere and packs a whallop in the run game even though he's not a big dude. 

Edited May 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[KDawg]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As for interceptions, its subjective of course to judge meaningful picks versus not.  For me I look for good hands, good anticipation (like the Forbes pick versus Kentucky), contested catches.

 

For Martin I was impressed if I recall with 2 out of this three picks.  His teammate Sydney Brown had 6 picks, but most of them to my eye were easy types.  QB throwing it right to him without much clutter around him.

 

I just watched another Illionis game to watch Kendall Smith who had 5 picks last season.  He's not easy to watch because he played a lot of post safety and was out of the camera angle but made one killer pick in that game showcasing good range.

 

That game also reinforced my draft man crush on Quan Martin -- he was everywhere and packs a whallop in the run game even though he's not a big dude. 

I came away from watching the secondary and being most impressed with Spoon and Smith.

 

I like Quan a touch more than Sydney, though. Quan is more physical.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[XxSpearheadxX]

@Skinsinparadise that was a fun watch! 

[Skinsinparadise]

11 hours ago, KDawg said:

I came away from watching the secondary and being most impressed with Spoon and Smith.

 

I like Quan a touch more than Sydney, though. Quan is more physical.

 

Quan is better IMO playing in the box, slot and FS (FS going more on reputation because I couldn't see a ton of reps there) than outside corner.  I couldn't really see enough of Smith, granted only watched 2 games, because he was mostly playing it seems post safety so he wasn't in line with most of the camera angles but killer pick in one of the games I watched, good tackler from what I saw but not on the level of Quan on the front -- but again hard to tell because he wasn't easy for me to see enough of.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

He will end up as the starting FS is my guess.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, Est.1974 said:

He will end up as the starting FS is my guess.

 

 

Based on his interview where he was asked what he was told -- nickle and FS.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Based on his interview where he was asked what he was told -- nickle and FS.

Yeah and when Rivera was asked about him the first position that came out of mouth was FS. Maybe just coincidence but he listed the position flex options but FS came first.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Yeah and when Rivera was asked about him the first position that came out of mouth was FS. Maybe just coincidence but he listed the position flex options but FS came first.

 

Heard mulitiple times from others including Keim that they don't want Curl to play as much as he did last year at big nickel, it wears him down, and part of the desire for Martin is to help on this front. 

 

As far as FS, he has the best profile for it on the team IMO.  

[Going Commando]

Given his size, speed, skill set, college background, and the fact we cut Bobby McCain, he's probably going to get McCain's snaps.  I think he's going to spend most of his time man covering the slot.

[KDawg]

22 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Given his size, speed, skill set, college background, and the fact we cut Bobby McCain, he's probably going to get McCain's snaps.  I think he's going to spend most of his time man covering the slot.

It's that or they plan on Curl/Forrest playing in the slot and Martin being the high safety. But given Martin's skillset he fits better in the hybrid/slot role. 

[Warhead36]

Slot CB is a starter in today's NFL anyways since almost every team is in 3 WR base nowadays.

[KDawg]

11 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Slot CB is a starter in today's NFL anyways since almost every team is in 3 WR base nowadays.

Today's NFL usually employs 1 pure safety, 2 hybrid safeties, 2 ILB, 4 DL, 2 CB.

 

Those two hybrid safeties have slight variation in the kind of player they are. Some are more traditional strong safety, some are more slot CB, some are more OLB/S types, some are better run defenders that can cover a little.

 

The 4-2-5 is a very prevalent defense. 

[actorguy1]

 

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Come on Quan

[XxSpearheadxX]

As much as I miss grind it out runs and counter treys I've actually grown to enjoy more DBs on the field. DBs are exciting and make plays, especially ones with 44 inch standing verticals. 

 

But teams are getting wise and its bringing back the power RB in a fun way also

[method man]

Keim had his DB coach on recently. Supposedly, there was a serious internal debate among the coaching staff on whether to play Quan as a boundary corner or safety. They went with the latter because they have a lot of depth at the former.

[Skinsinparadise]

-- Speaking of Martin, the defense utilized him at several positions on the field and held his own against bigger offensive targets like Logan Thomas. On one play, Martin's coverage was so effective that Thomas had to dive to try and make a play, although the pass from Howell ultimately fell the ground before he could secure it.

 

https://www.commanders.com/news/ota-notebook-sam-howell-looks-sharp-in-first-reps-as-qb1