Game Day Thread - Washingburgh at Dallas

[ixcuincle]

[FLSkinz83]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As I've told you before I don't care about Rivera or really any coach here.   You can dump Rivera, Chase Young, Terry, Jonathan Allen, and name that player and I'd take it in a nano second to get rid of Dan. 

 

You are right that I am obsessed with the theory that Dan is a problem in many ways including that one.  I know you believe that the owner is far from the most important aspect of a team's success and we can win with Dan. 

 

I disagree.  I think it all starts from the top.  So we are on different planets on the topic so we'd be wasting each other times to argue this again. 

 

You also brought up Hurney spending big.....Is Hurney making decisions here?   He's not even the #2 in charge.  

[CommanderCarson]

Dan is a huge problem we all know that but it’s a huge reach to suggest Dan has hamstrung Ron in any way. We’ve given 2 huge deals to our own guys and then traded for Wentz and his entire 28 million dollar salary cause that’s who Ron deemed the best of a bad bunch of options. 
 

Whether it’s intentional or not, it’s an excuse to absolve Rivera of blame. He deserves a lot of it right now and I respect the hell out of the guy. But when you can’t even execute a basic NFL offense with guys that would literally be impact guys on other teams like terry Samuel Gibson then you deserve a nice long hard look. This Dan is poor and poor Ron had to build a team with no reseources is absolute horse crap. 

[IrepDC]

1 minute ago, Leonard Washington said:

Open is open and I’m not seeing it as regularly as we did in the past. #1 wideout attention and route combos aren’t working for Terry. 

I haven't been watching him so I can't say. I have seen him running free at least once a game where Wentz wasn't looking his way. My theory early in camp, when Terry was out negotiating, Wentz built chemistry with Jahan and other guys. They haven't closed that gap since then.

[markmills67]

I feel sorry for Jonathon Allen and Daron Payne having to play for this Disgrace of a franchise. Allen was magnificent today with Payne not far behind. 

[FLSkinz83]

Quote from Rivera...someone please translate this because I have no idea what he's saying. ..“it’s time to take another step…you see enough to tell you to play better, we should play better”

[No Nonsense]

21 minutes ago, Leonard Washington said:

I wouldn’t be surprised.  He does some things well. 

Im interested. What does Scott Turner do well. We’ve all heard that “Heinicke is holding Scott Turner’s offense back.” Now what’s the excuse? As of right now, his unit is worse than JDR’s unit. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think @KDawg summed it well, when he has had some time, granted not often, his accuracy at times is brutal.  The wild errant throws remind me some of McNabb.

 

And I do grade him on a curve, the 28 million to me is relevant.  

Of course the 28M is relevant, but if that $28M so severely impacts their ability to put an O line around him or some linebackers on defense, they should have- it’s on Ron and the FO he put together to do what they have to do assure that’s not the case. 

Of course I won’t be surprised to learn that Dan somehow impacted what they were able to do on that front.  But just on its face, both Norwell and Turner have been god awful replacements and the depth is severely challenged with Chase out.  It has wrecked any chance they had to rejuvenate Wentz career.

[stoshuaj]

59 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

That's not true.  They had plenty of cap money to do whatever they wanted to do.  They could have cleared a ton of cap space if they wanted to without touching Wentz's contract.  

 

$28m for a starting QB isn't that big a deal. 

 

I've done that explanation before, many times, in the off-season.  Galdi has done it on his podcast, Kevin on his, a whole bunch of folks have. The Rams have signed a pro-bowl team and keep signing people.  If they wanted to do it, they could have done anything they want easily.  

And yet he’ll STILL be in here singing that same stupid song. Over and over again, regardless of how many times you attempt to explain it.  
 

His one trick is to be consistently obtuse.

[Mooka]

9 minutes ago, tomwvr said:

Then how did he win 7 games last year and a “much better qb” this year may not win more than one game.

 

7 win seasons aren't going to help this franchise so what's the point? 

 

[The Rook]

As I reviewed all the games, I realized they have only played one bad quarter ...

 

Unfortunately, it has been a quarter of the season.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[MIB__KEVIN]

4 minutes ago, The Rook said:

As I reviewed all the games, I realized they have only played one bad quarter ...

 

Unfortunately, it has been a quarter of the season.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

 

[tomwvr]

11 minutes ago, Mooka said:

 

7 win seasons aren't going to help this franchise so what's the point? 

 

Spending 28 million to get less wins is foolish

[MIB__KEVIN]

Why does this Team continue ro

bring in washed up QB’s who only looking for another years paycheck???

[sebestian]

2 hours ago, CobraCommander said:

So we fire him and hire a new GM right?

Of course not, that is the right thing to do.

[tomwvr]

I think ron needs to step back from the personal side of the game and focus on coaching

[Mooka]

1 minute ago, tomwvr said:

Spending 28 million to get less wins is foolish

 

We could've easily traded multiple first round picks for Wilson/Carr/Ryan and this would be even worse.

 

But you're not going to go into an NFL season with Taylor Heinicke as your starting QB. Just not going to happen. We'd have picked up Marriota/Brissett/Geno Smith or something. 

[sebestian]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I would trade Sweat and re-sign Payne.

 

I'm not going to give up on Young yet.  Rookie of the year in year 1, bad sophomore year and got hurt.  Need to see much, much more before declaring him a bust.  

+1.  You do not even notice Sweat.  Payne is playing good ball, I hope we can re sign him.  

[Skinsinparadise]

47 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

These are two different arguments.      Now you're talking about the big picture when it comes to Dan.   I'm not disagreeing with that.   But you're suggesting that Dan being cheap is the reason we have no depth, etc...

 

And if it's true, even more reason why taking on the entire Wentz contract makes no sense.  

 

 

OK.  Thus far, yeah I've made the same point on this very thread so not sure then what we are debating?  So far the 28 million on Wentz looks like a mistake.  It can change.  But for now it looks like the idea that they will be hung by that decision.  So if Wentz bombs that's absolutely on Rivera.  And while I do think Dan's been cheap -- I also think Rivera should have factored that.   So no I don't put the off season all on Dan.  It's a combination. 

 

Just to make my position clear on Ron.  I liked the hire.  Didn't love it.  I think he's a good coach.  Not a great coach.  But for THIS franchise I thought it was a big hire.  Bigger name than what Dan should be able to attract.  And I put stock in him being a good person considering the context of this team.

 

I debated @Zim489 some on this point as to specifics.  But I don't disagree with his bottom line -- his bottom line is crash at the right season and get the golden goose QB which has alluded us.   I've been on that same train for a long time.  While I don't root for losses, i do think there is a benefit from crashing versus staying medium.   I don't expect a coach to do it intentionally though.   So lol, I'd take a 4-13 season over an 8-9.

 

I actually like this FO's drafts and most of its FA signings.  But I hate their lack of gusto as to going for it in an off season ala Howie Roseman in Philly.  Do I think Dan is part of that problem.  Heck, yes.  But I also don't think this FO has a lot of imagination.  And among their moves if they fail on Wentz, that's a big miss. 

 

Whether Ron works out or not, i don't really care.  I do believe there is a dark cloud on this organization as long as Dan is here.  The last time i was really excited about a coach was Shanny and before that Gibbs and Gregg Williams.  But i've lost my luster-excitement for any new coaching hire.   And I think Dan has a better shot to make a Zorn type hire to replace Ron than upgrade on him.  But I frankly don't care that much one way or another.  My hope is driven by the long-shot hope that Dan sells and i am genuinely optimistc that there is a fighting chance. 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[FLSkinz83]

It's only a matter of time before "reports" come out that Rivera never wanted Wentz and it was all Snyder's idea.

[Skinsinparadise]

37 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

You also brought up Hurney spending big.....Is Hurney making decisions here?   He's not even the #2 in charge.  

 

Don't know.  But I got 10 things or so pointing to the budget and or Dan being cheap especially of late.

 

And for all the criticism of a coach centric model -- its typically driven by the OPPOSITE thought which is the coaches tend to be the future is now and overspend the cap.  Somehow i am supposed to believe Ron is the opposite extreme?

 

Be like putting a fat dude in front of a buffet and betting that he'd fast.  And then there is a competing narrative that the dude paying for the buffet is telling his employees to cut back on food -- and we are supposed to bank on the logic of the fat man forging the buffet?  It's possible but it defies logic.

 

I admit part of it for me is whenever I've given Dan the benefit of the doubt in the past and yes i did especially during the Shanny era, it has burned me. 

Edited October 2, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[zCommander]

14 minutes ago, Mooka said:

 

We could've easily traded multiple first round picks for Wilson/Carr/Ryan and this would be even worse.

 

But you're not going to go into an NFL season with Taylor Heinicke as your starting QB. Just not going to happen. We'd have picked up Marriota/Brissett/Geno Smith or something. 

 

I look at Seattle and wonder why Geno? I think they have their eyes set on the QB class of 2023. If it pans out then they will look like super smart even if people were making fun of them this year for going with Geno. I don't think anyone thinks Geno is their franchise QB of the future. Build for the future if you can or allowed to. 

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by zCommander

[Zim489]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Don't know.  But I got 10 things or so pointing to the budget and or Dan being cheap especially of late.

 

And for all the criticism of a coach centric model -- its typically driven by the OPPOSITE thought which is the coaches tend to be the future is now and overspend the cap.  Somehow i am supposed to believe Ron is the opposite extreme?

 

Be like putting a fat dude in front of a buffet and betting that he'd fast.  And then there is a competing narrative that the dude paying for the buffet is telling his employees to cut back on food -- and we are supposed to bank on the logic of the fat man forging the buffet?  It's possible but it defies logic.

 

I admit part of it for me is whenever I've given Dan the benefit of the doubt in the past and yes i did especially during the Shanny era, it has burned me. 

Think Hurney hold major influence here. 

[sebestian]

Can we be realistic here.  No matter what QB you are, behind this O line, you have no chance unless your name is Lamar Jackson.  Wentz is not great/elite, however how can we make a fair evaluation if the guy is running for his life every freakin time he drops back.  Its beyond ridiculous.  I am not surprised he is not accurate, he feels the pressure even if the defence drops 11 in coverage.  You cannot be hit and pressured as much as he has been and be effective.  At least in my opinion.  Again, I am not trying to make an excuse or absolve Wentz from any constructive criticism, but from what I saw today, that might be the worst o line play I have ever seen.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

It's only a matter of time before "reports" come out that Rivera never wanted Wentz and it was all Snyder's idea.

You like to say that you’re not in the bag for Snyder but you regularly go out of your way to dismiss most things about him.  As if Dan hasn’t had his hand in most every big decision at QB since he bought the team.  Yet you put ‘reports’ in quotations as if that’s not realistic and it’s all just a media conspiracy.  
 

23 years.  Everybody that comes here fails.  There is only one common denominator, and it ain’t the media.