Game Day Thread - Commanders 'n Chiefs (No Politics In The Stadium Edition)

[mistertim]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am usually not a down on coaches type of guy but I'll say in the mix of things, I am losing whatever faith I had left in Del Rio.

 

Jay (I know some here think he's an idiot about how to run an offense but i don't) in one of his many podcast appearances was asked about Del Rio.  And Jay more or less said he found him one of the easiest defensive coodinators to scheme up against, he said they put a ton of points on his defense (don't recall if he referred to when that happened with Cincy or here). 

 

He more or less said, he doesn't really challenge your thinking at all unlike some other defensive coordinators he had to scheme against.  What you see on film, is what you get.  Then the podcaster (I think it was Hoffman-Paulsen if I recall) started laughing.  Jay sort of realized what he did.  So he backtracked a little and tried to sell Del Rio's approach in that its an approach that players can master so the focus is on execution.

 

I also recall Rex Ryan talking abiout the scheme last year, Ryan saying that Del Rio coached for him if I recall, and said that Del Rio needs to be more inventive than he was.

 

I remember reading some of the same things about JDR's defenses when he first came here as DC. That he tended to be pretty vanilla and didn't mix things up much; didn't do any exotic blitzing; usually standard 4 man fronts with zone coverage or sometimes off-man.

 

I was a little worried about that at the time, and it seems it's still the case.

[Simmsy]

Watching it again, some notes:

 

1. I can see the lethargy, look at how Wentz comes onto the field for the opening drive. He acts like its too hot for him to be out there, he looks like a teenager being forced to mow the lawn on a Saturday morning.

 

2.Robinson has the starting job, don't deny it.

 

3.  Go back and watch this game. we actually played a decent game for preseason. Still can't catch though, I was going to count the passes, but its not as many as I remember. We just got out played by the better team.

[@DCGoldPants]

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I remember reading some of the same things about JDR's defenses when he first came here as DC. That he tended to be pretty vanilla and didn't mix things up much; didn't do any exotic blitzing; usually standard 4 man fronts with zone coverage or sometimes off-man.

 

I was a little worried about that at the time, and it seems it's still the case.

Being a good defensive coordinator in previous years doesn't mean you are forever. Pretty soon our DBs will be playing 20 yards off the receivers and Ron will say we need to figure out the 3rd down defensive issue still. 

[Simmsy]

17 minutes ago, @DCGoldPants said:

Being a good defensive coordinator in previous years doesn't mean you are forever. Pretty soon our DBs will be playing 20 yards off the receivers and Ron will say we need to figure out the 3rd down defensive issue still. 

This team is slow to start, they're slow to start the game and they're slow to start the season. I'm not that worried watching the game again, but they need to stop digging themselves in a hole by not scoring in the red zone.

 

Edit : 4 I counted 4 dropped passes before the half. two of those resulted in penalties. I think thats it, I'm also high ASF!

Edited August 21, 2022 by Simmsy

[Rex Tomb]

12 minutes ago, Simmsy said:

they need to stop digging themselves in a hole by not scoring in the red zone.

Im hoping they’ve got some things that they’re keeping under wraps for the Jags, like more RPOs and some kind of Deebo type role for Gibson.

[Simmsy]

5 minutes ago, Rex Tomb said:

Im hoping they’ve got some things that they’re keeping under wraps for the Jags, like more RPOs and some kind of Deebo type role for Gibson.

I know they are, but can they execute it? There are plenty of times when I think this team is going to score, just to jizz on their own feet. Jesus, this feels like game day...I'm going to need more weed and Sunkist.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Simmsy

[@DCGoldPants]

21 minutes ago, Simmsy said:

This team is slow to start, they're slow to start the game and they're slow to start the season. 

 

Come on, now. 

[Simmsy]

5 minutes ago, @DCGoldPants said:

 

Come on, now. 

I'm not necessarily saying that is a bad thing. I remember when jay was coaching, if we weren't winning by half time, game over, man. I have faith in this team to stick around and dig out a win. The Chiefs are just too good a team.

 

Edit: Switching to the Browns/Eagles.

 

Aidnt Kinanaba has a nice body, messed up that name.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Simmsy

[Renegade7]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Does anybody know if there's a way to re-watch the game?  I was traveling, and my DVR crapped out.  I looked on NFL Network, and it doesn't appear that it's being replayed.  

 

I listed to a few recap podcasts, but I like to see things with my own 2 eyes.  

 

Aren't you in Vienna?  NBC Sports Washington broadcasted it, they typically replay it at least once, advice would be look for that and record that (sometimes it's at odd hours when they've done that in the past)

[Califan007 The Constipated]

In case it wasn’t posted…nice thread on some of the positive plays.

 

 

[@DCGoldPants]

24 minutes ago, Simmsy said:

I'm not necessarily saying that is a bad thing. 

 

It's a bad thing. As bad as having fumbling issues. As bad as having a terrible 3rd down defense. As bad as an offense who snaps from the same bunched look over and over. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Does anybody know if there's a way to re-watch the game?  I was traveling, and my DVR crapped out.  I looked on NFL Network, and it doesn't appear that it's being replayed.  

 

I listed to a few recap podcasts, but I like to see things with my own 2 eyes.  

 

 

[Simmsy]

9 minutes ago, @DCGoldPants said:

 

It's a bad thing. As bad as having fumbling issues. As bad as having a terrible 3rd down defense. As bad as an offense who snaps from the same bunched look over and over. 

The offense looked good, minus the dropped passes. That defense is terrible, no need to to criticize that mess.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Simmsy

[Renegade7]

@Warhead36 can't find your post talking about drafting Robinson in Fantasy Football this year.

 

But more I thought about, more it feels like he's destined to get handcuffed with Gibson, at minimum.  There's no way they don't steal TDs from each other, not to mention McKissick is back.  

 

Sounds like RBBC regardless of the starter, good for us, bad for FF...

 

 

[RWJ]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am usually not a down on coaches type of guy but I'll say in the mix of things, I am losing whatever faith I had left in Del Rio.

 

Jay (I know some here think he's an idiot about how to run an offense but i don't) in one of his many podcast appearances was asked about Del Rio.  And Jay more or less said he found him one of the easiest defensive coodinators to scheme up against, he said they put a ton of points on his defense (don't recall if he referred to when that happened with Cincy or here). 

 

He more or less said, he doesn't really challenge your thinking at all unlike some other defensive coordinators he had to scheme against.  What you see on film, is what you get.  Then the podcaster (I think it was Hoffman-Paulsen if I recall) started laughing.  Jay sort of realized what he did.  So he backtracked a little and tried to sell Del Rio's approach in that its an approach that players can master so the focus is on execution.

 

I also recall Rex Ryan talking abiout the scheme last year, Ryan saying that Del Rio coached for him if I recall, and said that Del Rio needs to be more inventive than he was.

@Skinsinparadise Do you think that RR replaces JDR this year?  I hope so, personally. You?  Do you think he does it though?  If not Wilks, who would be a good candidate.  Wilks is there for the taking.  He's only a DB coach and his DBs are playing lights out right now.  He was there with RR in Carolina.  Ony concern he may be up for consideration for a HC or DC job next year so if RR wants him, he's going to need to make a move soon.  The coaches RR has here are basically from Carolina anyway.  I don't think it's too late to make a change and try for Wilks if he wants to become DC for RR.  

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, RWJ said:

@Skinsinparadise Do you think that RR replaces JDR this year?  I hope so, personally. You?  Do you think he does it though?  If not Wilks, who would be a good candidate.  Wilks is there for the taking.  He's only a DB coach and his DBs are playing lights out right now.  He was there with RR in Carolina.  Ony concern he may be up for consideration for a HC or DC job next year so if RR wants him, he's going to need to make a move soon.  The coaches RR has here are basically from Carolina anyway.  I don't think it's too late to make a change and try for Wilks if he wants to become DC for RR.  

 

I've soured on Del Rio, so personally I wouldn't mind to see him go.  As for Rob, got no idea what he does.  I do think if the defenses struggles, its not out of the realm of possibility, especially considering their soft schedule. 

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, Rex Tomb said:

Im hoping they’ve got some things that they’re keeping under wraps for the Jags, like more RPOs and some kind of Deebo type role for Gibson.

 

[Renegade7]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've soured on Del Rio, so personally I wouldn't mind to see him go.  As for Rob, got no idea what he does.  I do think if the defenses struggles, its not out of the realm of possibility, especially considering their soft schedule. 

 

If Ron wanted a blitz happy defense, he wouldn't of hired Del Rio, so keeping my hopes for change in context.

 

I wish he would take over the defense this year if he fires Del Rio, but he has too many responsibilities as it is already, can he keep up with that?

 

He really needs someone who can enact his vision on defense that the players respect, if that person isn't already on his staff, he may do it jus because he doesn't want to miss the playoffs in year 3, then hire someone new in the offseason.

 

At this point I'm convinced Ron is more likely to retire for "health related reasons" then being fired, he's trying to do too much already and jus had cancer two years ago.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Renegade7

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

If Ron wanted a blitz happy defense, he wouldn't of hired Del Rio, so keeping my hopes for change in context.

 

I wish he would take over the defense this year if he fires Del Rio, but he has too many responsibilities as it is already, can he keep up with that?

 

He really needs someone who can enact his vision on defense that the players respect, if that person isn't already on his staff, he may do it jus because he doesn't want to miss the playoffs in year 3, then hire someone new in the offseason.

 

At this point I'm convinced Ron is more likely to retire for "health related reasons" then being fired, he's trying to do too much already and jus had cancer two years ago.

 

I am not that zoned in on blitz happy.  Haz was blitz happy and was arguably a bad coordinator.  Gregg Williams wasn't blitz happy yet arguably our best D coordinator in eons. Del Rio blitzes enough IMO -- ranked 8 last year in number of blitzes.  Gregg though IMO was more inventive including with blitzing.  Recall Shawn Springs led the team in sacks one year.

 

The blitz happy defenses aren't necessarily the better ones.  Sometimes yes, sometimes no.   Not saying you are saying otherwise. 

 

But it really got my attention when Jay talked about preparing for defenses and that he found Del Rio's defense was one of the easier ones to prepare for.  It makes me wonder that teams are so good at scoring on this defense in the first drive during both halves and also on third down -- those metrics seem to lend to an extent the idea that Del Rio is easier to prepare for because of tendencies that he doesn't disguise very well or change up much. 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/opp.htm

 

Team Advanced Defense

 

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Tm	G	Att	Cmp	Yds	TD	DADOT	Air	YAC	Bltz	Bltz% ▼	Hrry	Hrry%	QBKD	QBKD%	Sk	Prss	Prss%	MTkl
Tampa Bay Buccaneers	17	680	445	4062	26	7.2	2451	2420	313	40.8%	95	12.4%	77	11.3%	47	219	28.6%	120
Miami Dolphins	17	608	373	3871	23	8.0	2262	1985	268	39.6%	68	10.0%	77	12.7%	48	193	28.5%	118
Carolina Panthers	17	515	337	3266	26	7.8	1957	1602	192	33.7%	62	10.9%	48	9.3%	39	149	26.1%	106
Arizona Cardinals	17	561	367	3645	30	7.4	2317	1784	210	33.6%	61	9.8%	60	10.7%	41	162	25.9%	110
Jacksonville Jaguars	17	543	377	3875	24	7.6	2247	1864	190	31.5%	65	10.8%	49	9.0%	32	146	24.2%	130
Baltimore Ravens	17	621	397	4742	31	8.4	2500	2467	209	31.1%	58	8.6%	62	10.0%	34	154	23.0%	115
Washington Football Team	17	597	400	4333	34	8.6	2714	1805	206	31.0%	68	10.2%	55	9.2%	38	161	24.2%	99
Kansas City Chiefs	17	610	401	4273	27	7.4	2469	2793	190	28.1%	88	13.0%	59	9.7%	31	178	26.4%	93
Detroit Lions	17	544	359	4160	31	8.7	2458	1896	165	27.3%	65	10.7%	29	5.3%	30	124	20.5%	132
Dallas Cowboys	17	612	364	4049	24	8.0	2131	2364	184	27.1%	79	11.6%	68	11.1%	41	188	27.6%	106

 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

34 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've soured on Del Rio, so personally I wouldn't mind to see him go.  As for Rob, got no idea what he does.  I do think if the defenses struggles, its not out of the realm of possibility, especially considering their soft schedule. 

Rob?  I was talking about a RR and Steve Wilks reunion.   

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, RWJ said:

Rob?  I was talking about a RR and Steve Wilks reunion.   

 

Typo on my end, Ron.  I got no idea how good Wilks is or not.  I recall Norman loved him.    Right now he's as assistant for a lower tier college team, not even their coordinator. 

[WilberMarshall]

I thought this was a better played Preseason game by the Commanders. It took exceptional talent of Mahomes for them to convert the 3rd downs and keep drives alive.

 

What I wanted to see was if the team was winning their one-on-one matchups. We won our fair share.

 

Guys were around the ball to make plays. 

 

The other thing I learned was that we might have to look for a go to guy on 3rd downs... because No10 ain't it.

 

The team is coming together nicely. 

[Chris 44]

17 minutes ago, WilberMarshall said:

I thought this was a better played Preseason game by the Commanders. It took exceptional talent of Mahomes for them to convert the 3rd downs and keep drives alive.

 

What I wanted to see was if the team was winning their one-on-one matchups. We won our fair share.

 

Guys were around the ball to make plays. 

 

The other thing I learned was that we might have to look for a go to guy on 3rd downs... because No10 ain't it.

 

The team is coming together nicely. 

After watching the game today I agree, the offense is going to be pretty good. I don't have any worries there. Get McKissik back, the tight ends back, get a healthy o line, I think they will be good.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Chris 44

[Renegade7]

@Skinsinparadise that comment about blitzing wasn't really directed at you, but I'm glad you broke that down (yet again for us) to help hit home the reality of what's wrong with Del Rio is looking unfixable because it's him specifically.

 

At one point yes I wanted a more exotic blitzing defense, then surrendered when Ron double-downed in Dline with the Chase Young pick, the majority of the pressure was designed to come from dline and make gaining every yard a war of attrition with the back 7 until something stupid happened, like a turnover or a sack.

 

The players have to be in the right position and not so obvious what they're doing if that's the plan, which has worked in other places so can work here.  It has to work here because Ron is not going to do something differently no matter who the coordinator is, the next DC will be one that also agrees with him and that philosophy.

 

But these secondary communication issues, the truth that it does seem easy to call out what we are doing on opening drives...there's only so much the players can do about that.

 

I'm not ready to buy Curl has regressed so badly versus being put in bad spots over and over again, Fuller and Jackson have the talent to be better then what we've seen.  I can buy the derth of linebacker talent (and importantly speed) having a big impact, but what's going on with our secondary screams coaching problems.  At best they are underachieving and not on the same page.

 

Ron probably fired the dline coach because Del Rio wouldn't, they aren't the 85 Bears talent wise, but they shouldn't be 31st in 3rd Conversion rate on defense.

[Warhead36]

You invest four firsts in a DL you shouldn't have to resort to blitzing so often. 

 

But our back end coverage is so bad it kinda forces it.