The All Things 2022 OTAs/Training Camp Thread

[Mrshadow008]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah some Holcomb too in 1 LB sets.

 

But Paulsen said Davis looks more confident about his instincts and is flying to the ball the way you saw in college.  

 

In college, and we talked about before that draft, Jamin's weakness was being too hesitant as far as reacting to a play.  In his defense he only played one year of college ball so trusting his instincts based on what he saw would arguably be a work in progress.  No shocker that weakness extended to the pros in season 1.

 

I've said before, not that the point has deep insight to it, which is the dude looked in colle like a natural outside LB -- sideline to sideline range -- not an inside LB calling the defense.  I've had Rivera's back on almost everything but I did think they misevaluated Davis if the idea was to play him inside.  And I'd add throwing a rookie wih limited college experience into the fire where he had to play inside and call the plays in training camp likely shook up his confidence some because they immediately took him out of his comfort zone.

 

Paulsen said he looks much more comfortable and confidant now.  I know some here alrready write him off as a bust.  But IMO the story is too early to tell.  I think the dude has a chance.  Aside from him playing now his more natural position, he's a special athlete -- elite level for LB.  And he supposedly has special intangibles -- comes from military familiy, super nice guy, super hard worker.  Will see but I think he at a minimum has a fighting chance. 

Oh I agree with all of this. Though it goes even deeper than only playing one year in college. He only played for two years in HS as well before he got to Kentucky. You could see the hesitation on the field constantly. It was like hed see something but not trust what he was seeing. The fact that he still had 78 tackles despite missing a couple games,  not playing at beginning of the year, and the instinct issues is 100% a testament to his natural physical ability. I dont have any doubt that hell get there based off ability and the fact that he seems to work hard, I think people got so down on him because you had people like Greenie saying stuff like oh he could be DROY behind that d line etc and comparing him to Parsons. 

[Koolblue13]

Bostic called the defense until he got hurt, than Cole got the green dot. Davis never did.

[Warhead36]

The plan from the get go should have been Davis at WSLB. Just let him attack and make plays, don't ask him to think. We've basically wasted a year of his development trying to have him play MLB. 

[Koolblue13]

7 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The plan from the get go should have been Davis at WSLB. Just let him attack and make plays, don't ask him to think. We've basically wasted a year of his development trying to have him play MLB. 

You think he hasn't learned a ton playing MLB? With that under his belt, moving back to outside and sliding inside, it was invaluable. It was a trash year anyway and I'm sure h got to see the field in ways he never would have.

[Conn]

14 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Bostic called the defense until he got hurt, than Cole got the green dot. Davis never did.

yeah but they had him doing it in minicamps and training camp I believe, just to see what he could handle. He couldn’t handle it, it turned out and it set back his development at his actual position. I’m sure the net result will be that in the end, he understands more about the rest of the defense in relation to his assignments rather than just his own position…but that doesn’t seem like the right way to handle a highly drafted raw player that you need to perform ASAP. Get him comfortable at and good at one thing first, then expand.
 

It’s the same sort of old school nonsense imo that kept athletic young TE’s off the field  for years (for some organizations) because they couldn’t block or understand the intricacies of the position…When all along they were just huge slot receivers that needed to be put in position to succeed within the role they could already contribute from, and grow from there. 

[Koolblue13]

8 minutes ago, Conn said:

yeah but they had him doing it in minicamps and training camp I believe, just to see what he could handle. He couldn’t handle it, it turned out and it set back his development at his actual position. I’m sure the net result will be that in the end, he understands more about the rest of the defense in relation to his assignments rather than just his own position…but that doesn’t seem like the right way to handle a highly drafted raw player that you need to perform ASAP. Get him comfortable at and good at one thing first, then expand.
 

It’s the same sort of old school nonsense imo that kept athletic young TE’s off the field  for years (for some organizations) because they couldn’t block or understand the intricacies of the position…When all along they were just huge slot receivers that needed to be put in position to succeed within the role they could already contribute from, and grow from there. 

I think it will be a huge benefit to him in the long run. I don't think that was the coaches plan, but I do see it as a positive. It's an interesting way to handle a highly drafted rookie.

 

I think we can all agree that he shouldn't have been a first round pick, so that is where the main mistake happened, but if he was a second rounder like he should have been, I don't think playing him out of position gets criticized as much.

[Llevron]

3 hours ago, ntotoro said:

My first year of little league football (Annandale Boys Club... 1985), I got a trophy for most improved player. Basically, I sucked and improved to "useable" in the first season I played. 

 

We'll see how Davis looks. Maybe he's useable now. Not bad for a 1st-round pick...

 

I mean, if he gets up to 1 round pick speed in his second season, I almost dont mind the extra time with a nobody at QB for the season. 

 

Thats if he gets that far though. Thats a lot to expect of him i think this season. We will see 

[kingdaddy]

Speaking of training camp....I just received my 2022 camo training camp visor and this thing is very nice. It's lightweight very comfortable. Highly recommend you grab this if you're a visor fan. JDR wore this during mini-camp. 

[Conn]

1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

Speaking of training camp....I just received my 2022 camo training camp visor and this thing is very nice. It's lightweight very comfortable. Highly recommend you grab this if you're a visor fan. JDR wore this during mini-camp. 

So it does not come with an anti-tweeting function enabled, noted 

[Koolblue13]

2 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

JDR wore this during mini-camp. 

I can't tell if that's a selling point or the opposite.

[Skinsinparadise]

10 hours ago, Mrshadow008 said:

Oh I agree with all of this. Though it goes even deeper than only playing one year in college. He only played for two years in HS as well before he got to Kentucky. You could see the hesitation on the field constantly. It was like hed see something but not trust what he was seeing. The fact that he still had 78 tackles despite missing a couple games,  not playing at beginning of the year, and the instinct issues is 100% a testament to his natural physical ability. I dont have any doubt that hell get there based off ability and the fact that he seems to work hard, I think people got so down on him because you had people like Greenie saying stuff like oh he could be DROY behind that d line etc and comparing him to Parsons. 

 

We did our rankings on the draft thread before that draft, and i easily had Parsons as the #1 LB so I agreed with the draftnik consensus on that.  He among other things easily looked to be the best pass rusher among the LBs.  Some were concerned about his personality but i mentioned at the time that watching Parson's on ther ESPN show Hey Rookie, he came off to me really well on that program -- super competitive and really charasmatic.  Ironically, I touted Parsons' close friend the season after that for also how he came off on the Hey Rookie show -- that was Jahan Dotson.  With all of that, I didn't think Parsons would be this level good -- he's already arguably one of the better players in the NFL.

 

I spent a lot of time on Jamin Davis on the draft thread before that draft.  He wasn't the guy I wanted at 19.  That was JOK.  I saw Jamin as a late first rounder-early 2nd.   But part of what I saw that intrigued me about Jamin was in limited snaps he was a good pass rusher to my eyes.  And one of his Kentucky coaches said they considered making Jamin an edge rusher early in his career.  Towards the end of the season they stated using Jamin to blitz the passer, and he showed flashes.  So i am intrigued to see more of that.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Mrshadow008]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

We did our rankings on the draft thread before that draft, and i easily had Parsons as the #1 LB so I agreed with the draftnik consensus on that.  He among other things easily looked to be the best pass rusher among the LBs.  Some were concerned about his personality but i mentioned at the time that watching Parson's on ther ESPN show Hey Rookie, he came off to me really well on that program -- super competitive and really charasmatic.  Ironically, I touted Parsons' close friend the season after that for also how he came off on the Hey Rookie show -- that was Jahan Dotson.  With all of that, I didn't think Parsons would be this level good -- he's already arguably one of the better players in the NFL.

 

I spent a lot of time on Jamin Davis on the draft thread before that draft.  He wasn't the guy I wanted at 19.  That was JOK.  I saw Jamin as a late first rounder-early 2nd.   But part of what I saw that intrigued me about Jamin was in limited snaps he was a good pass rusher to my eyes.  And one of his Kentucky coaches said they considered making Jamin an edge rusher early in his career.  Towards the end of the season they stated using Jamin to blitz the passer, and he showed flashes.  So i am intrigued to see more of that.

I am curious to see how Parsons fairs as a pass rusher this season. I wouldn’t be surprised to him take a step back as pass rusher this season. The surprise of him as a pass rusher isn’t there any more and teams will prepare for it. Teams obviously have a year of film on him as a pass rusher. I think the loss of Gregory hurts a little bit. With with Gregory and Lawrence as the primary rushers it made it harder to key in on Parsons as a rusher. I think the loss of Gregory makes it easier to key in on Parsons. 
Agree about wanting to see Davis used more as a rusher. I think you could catch teams off guard early doing that. Having him come off the edge behind Sweat or a delayed blitz up the middle behind JA and Payne with his speed would be extremely difficult to contend with. 

[philibusters]

I liked the Jamin Davis pick at the time we made it because I thought it filled a need with a high ceiling player.  I didn't really consider Micah Parsons because I didn't think he would be on the board at 19 and because of his character issues.  The three LB'ers I looked thought about when looking at the draft was Zaven Collins, Jamin Davis, and Jeremiah Owusu-Koromiah.  I had them ranked in that order, which is the order they went in the draft.  With one year hindsight, I would probably take JOK first.  That said, I am still hopeful about Davis.  I did know he was the least ready to play, but when you see them struggle in year 1 its always a bit of a surprise.  Its a bit like the Trey Lance--Mac Jones sitaution.  Everybody said Lance's ceiling was higher, but Jones had the higher floor and was more year 1 ready.  2021 season proved that Jones was more year 1 ready, yet I think the tv commentators were a bit surprised even though it agreed with their pre-draft analysis.  Its the same with Jamin Davis.  I knew he was raw and theoretically factored that into my analysis, but when his rawness was on display in year 1, I was still surprised.

[Koolblue13]

If we're playing LBer hindsight, I'd have moved back and taken Moehrig and then Bolton and that would have been awesome, but it doesn't work like that.

[Skinsinparadise]

I had concerns about Parson's character too until I saw the Hey Rookie show, that swayed me on that front.  I recall when Parsons struggled in a preseason game there was a lot of a I told you so he's not good comments on a thread and I recall saying they are jinxing it and its bad karma. 😧  

 

I really wanted JOK bad.  And JOK did look really good in season 1.  I saw Collins as more of a strong LB so didn't see the fit, I liked him also as a pass rusher. 

 

I was agnostic about Bolton.  I didn't get around to watching him much.  Once I saw his slow 40 time, I didn't really bother.  But he also had a good rookie season. 

 

I liked aspects of Jamin's game.  Not at 19 though.  But it didn't surprise me they took him.  When TK had a survey on draft day about who the team would take if I recall I was the only one who guessed Jamin.

 

I was a big Moehrig guy and I dived deep into him on the draft thread.  I did though wanted JOK or Darrisaw before Moehrig.  But I loved Moehrig's instincts. 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

Yeah, it was Moehrig or Harris for me. Now that time has past, I'm glad we didn't go Najee, because we still got a Bama back, but in the 3rd instead and I'm really good with it. I think he has stud potential.

 

I'm still bummed about Moehrig. Could have traded back again and took Lloyd this year and one of the many WRs in the 2nd and I think this team is a whole lot better.

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Yeah, it was Moehrig or Harris for me. Now that time has past, I'm glad we didn't go Najee, because we still got a Bama back, but in the 3rd instead and I'm really good with it. I think he has stud potential.

 

I'm still bummed about Moehrig. Could have traded back again and took Lloyd this year and one of the many WRs in the 2nd and I think this team is a whole lot better.

 

I did like Harris, too.  The other one I loved was Elijah Moore but I thought 19 was a bit early for him.

 

I didn't hate the Davis pick though.  I thought I saw plenty of potential in him.   LBs can struggle in season 1, especially those with limited experience.  Some of the LBs we have coveted on the FA thread were dudes who didn't start their career with their hair on fire. 

 

That draft isn't looking bad potentially if the reports from camp end up playing out during the season.  Bates and Cosmi look like keepers.  St. Juste supposedly was the star of camp.  So even if it just rests with three good players, that's a good draft.

 

Then you got Jamin.  Dyami I am not sure about.  Forrest supposedly has had a decent camp.   Toney for a 7th rounder, backup, isn't bad.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I did like Harris, too.  The other one I loved was Elijah Moore but I thought 19 was a bit early for him.

 

I didn't hate the Davis pick though.  I thought I saw plenty of potential in him.   LBs can struggle in season 1, especially those with limited experience.  Some of the LBs we have coveted on the FA thread were dudes who didn't start their career with their hair on fire. 

 

That draft isn't looking bad potentially if the reports from camp end up playing out during the season.  Bates and Cosmi look like keepers.  St. Juste supposedly was the star of camp.  So even if it just rests with three good players, that's a good draft.

 

Then you got Jamin.  Dyami I am not sure about.  Forrest supposedly has had a decent camp.   Toney for a 7th rounder, backup, isn't bad.

I was ultimately happy that we drafted a LB early and I know they take a year or two generally. I guess it's mostly where he was drafted that I have the issue with. Not sure if it's lip service or he does actually look better.

 

Forrest is a late rounder, so if he ends up just being a ST guy that plays out his rookie deal and ends up out of the league,, that's fine.

 

Dyami we'll know all about him the season. If he is just a 20 yard and deep guy, that's fine too with his draft position and it's a good role player t have. We're expecting him to be WR4.

 

I try not to judge a draft until 2 or 3 years later, so questions like will Cosmi stay on the field, Is Juice hard enough, will Davis have hius light come on, have time to be answered.

 

I think this most recent draft will be full of legit guys and was a quiet homerun. If last years draft, which was full of potential, it'll be great and an interesting way to build the team.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

I was ultimately happy that we drafted a LB early and I know they take a year or two generally. I guess it's mostly where he was drafted that I have the issue with. Not sure if it's lip service or he does actually look better.

 

Forrest is a late rounder, so if he ends up just being a ST guy that plays out his rookie deal and ends up out of the league,, that's fine.

 

Dyami we'll know all about him the season. If he is just a 20 yard and deep guy, that's fine too with his draft position and it's a good role player t have. We're expecting him to be WR4.

 

I try not to judge a draft until 2 or 3 years later, so questions like will Cosmi stay on the field, Is Juice hard enough, will Davis have hius light come on, have time to be answered.

 

I think this most recent draft will be full of legit guys and was a quiet homerun. If last years draft, which was full of potential, it'll be great and an interesting way to build the team.

 

I agree things need to play out.  Cosmi needs to show he can stay healthy.  

 

As to Forrest.  Agree for a 5th rounder if he ends up just a special teams ace, that's a hit.  Most 5th rounders are busts.

 

I've heard mixed things about Dyami's camp so far.  I said at the time shortly after that draft almost every one of players in that draft were killer interviews in terms of them showcasing intangibles.  The two who jumped out to me not so much so was Dyami and Forrest.  Forrest seemed to see himself more as a special teams guy than a safety so it hit me strange but he came off well personality wise. 

 

Dyami was ordinary as an interview and the intangibles didn't strike me special or for that matter bad -- nothing stood out good or bad.   The others guys I recall saying I could see why Rivera was taken by their interviews.  But as for Dyami, for sure, I am open minded to see what he does this season.   Jahan came here and set practice on fire from the jump.  So did Terry years back.   Dyami at least judging by camp reports hasn't caught fire yet even in camp #2.   But will see.  I have more faith that Jamin takes that leap than I do Dyami.

 

As far as intangibles-jumping out in camp -- Cole Turner seems to be the sneaky runner up to Jahan.  I've heard multiple times he's a really hard worker who grinds and is obsessed with being great.  Not saying a Rocky level committment to being great makes a player great in itself but I do think it tips the balance if everything else is cooking.

 

I watched a ton of Carson Strong from the jump of the last college season.  And I recall saying on the draft thread, I wasn't sold that his go to WR, Romeo Doubs, would translate to the NFL but I was intrigued by his go to TE, Cole Turner.  Now I got to hope I am right. 

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

I definitely think we got 3 cornerstones for our offense in BRob, Jahan and Cole. I'm pretty sure that like me, you're a big fan of the Turner offense and the potential is there to truly be pretty unstoppable. It's exciting. 

 

I think the defense is going to need to play opportunistic football and do a lot of gambling and get lucky for it to be good, which I think it can. It was 2 years ago and I think it's a much improved unit. 

[Conn]

Also easier for the defense to gamble and play with aggression and true swagger when they know in their hearts that the offense can just…score. Having to play with the knowledge that every game rests on your shoulders because every play needs to be perfect leaves you balanced on a knife’s edge, not a state that everyone performs well under. That leads to even more overthinking, but also just a lack of true confidence on the field when you don’t have faith your offense can score at any time. 

[Koolblue13]

I think we have the potential to be a 28+ average offense, who can hang 40 points on you in a shoot out or grind the ball on the ground if needed and that should allow the defense to really play with their ears pinned back and that's pretty exciting. Huge boom bust potential and I'm fine with it either way honestly.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

I definitely think we got 3 cornerstones for our offense in BRob, Jahan and Cole. I'm pretty sure that like me, you're a big fan of the Turner offense and the potential is there to truly be pretty unstoppable. It's exciting. 

 

I think the defense is going to need to play opportunistic football and do a lot of gambling and get lucky for it to be good, which I think it can. It was 2 years ago and I think it's a much improved unit. 

 

Yeah I like Scott Turner.  Like you, I am jazzed about Bates' potential.  If I recall I think i am a little higher on Logan Thomas than you?  I do like the potential of Cole.  And Hodges intrigues me too. 

 

As far as WRs, if Samuel is healthy its one of the better groups in the league.  Jahan I think will be good.  Terry is IMO great. 

 

I agree with you that this draft could end up being really good.  I am surprised that so many driftniks think "meh".  Diving deeper into why, they seem to think Jahan was overdrafted and Mathis and Robinson were taken too high.  IMO they are wrong but will see.  I'd say Robinson is the most frowned upon pick.  I personally don't get that.  Robinson to my eyes is a thumper with more wheels than some of the draftniks realize IMO.  A pass weapon, too.  In the third round he was one of the three players I clamored for before the pick came in. 

 

For the defense to take it up a notch IMO the D line has to live up to their billing.  When you have a monster front 4 like that, they should be better than just good -- they need to be great.  If they dominate, I think the secondary is good enough to feast off of it.  

 

I do think they need to add another CB and LB for depth and listening to Keim among others, feels like its going down but they certainly are taking their time.  I am OK with the defensive lineup but the depth scares me and depth is always tested. 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

I think the offense can be really good IF Samuel and Thomas can return to form and IF the OL doesn't fall off too hard from losing Scherff and Flowers. But those are two fairly big IFs.

[Koolblue13]

29 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah I like Scott Turner.  Like you, I am jazzed about Bates' potential.  If I recall I think i am a little higher on Logan Thomas than you?  I do like the potential of Cole.  And Hodges intrigues me too. 

 

As far as WRs, if Samuel is healthy its one of the better groups in the league.  Jahan I think will be good.  Terry is IMO great. 

 

I agree with you that this draft could end up being really good.  I am surprised that so many driftniks think "meh".  Diving deeper into why, they seem to think Jahan was overdrafted and Mathis and Robinson were taken too high.  IMO they are wrong but will see.  I'd say Robinson is the most frowned upon pick.  I personally don't get that.  Robinson to my eyes is a thumper with more wheels than some of the draftniks realize IMO.  A pass weapon, too.  In the third round he was one of the three players I clamored for before the pick came in. 

 

For the defense to take it up a notch IMO the D line has to live up to their billing.  When you have a monster front 4 like that, they should be better than just good -- they need to be great.  If they dominate, I think the secondary is good enough to feast off of it.  

 

I do think they need to add another CB and LB for depth and listening to Keim among others, feels like its going down but they certainly are taking their time.  I am OK with the defensive lineup but the depth scares me and depth is always tested. 

Yeah, I'm not super high on Thomas. He has a great year, but his age and injury might negate all of that and I'm just tired of seeing pass catching TEs who don't play. It's been our MO for too long.

 

I am extremely high on Bates and like him as a receiver more than most do.

 

I think we have some pretty interesting pieces in our secondary and if the line can put pressure on, they'll be very good and able to disguise a lot of looks. I've definitely soured on JDR though.

 

The Bills had 4 1rst rounders on their Dline for years that under performed and they don't get hardly any criticism, which I find odd.