The All Things 2022 OTAs/Training Camp Thread

[Mrshadow008]

1 minute ago, oraphus said:

aside from all the rhetoric .. i am actually concerned about the O line going in to the season.

1. Everyone knows O line needs time to jell

2. we have 2 new starters and a center thats not yet ready to hit the field.. so possibly 3 new starters when season starts.

3. If the Oline plays like poo the first half the season (ala Fitzmagic) it could break Wentz's already fragile psyche, and once that happens we have a 2020 Wentz and a bunch of wasted pics/ $$$

I still think Schweitzer is your starting guard once Rouiller is healthy so well technically 2 new starters Wes has played there enough I wouldnt consider him a new starter. But either way your overall point is fair I think because even Wes starts at G hes not playing there now so chemistry may still take some time

[wit33]

18 minutes ago, oraphus said:

aside from all the rhetoric .. i am actually concerned about the O line going in to the season.

1. Everyone knows O line needs time to jell

2. we have 2 new starters and a center thats not yet ready to hit the field.. so possibly 3 new starters when season starts.

3. If the Oline plays like poo the first half the season (ala Fitzmagic) it could break Wentz's already fragile psyche, and once that happens we have a 2020 Wentz and a bunch of wasted pics/ $$$

Chemistry amongst the Oline is overrated—More about the individual, scheme, development, and QB. Not saying it hurts, but no big deal these days. An old romantic ideal coaches promote if they have it and downplay if they don’t. 

 

[Warhead36]

I too am a wee bit worried about the OL. I think they'll be alright at the end of the day but it could be a rough start. Jags Week 1 is actually a potentially tough matchup, their front is underrated and just added a #1 overall pick.

[Koolblue13]

7 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I too am a wee bit worried about the OL. I think they'll be alright at the end of the day but it could be a rough start. Jags Week 1 is actually a potentially tough matchup, their front is underrated and just added a #1 overall pick.

That's why I've been saying that I don't like that opening match up. Their secondary can be had, but that front 7 is great.

 

Just gotta hope we can rag um out with the run and beat their offense.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

Those who stood out

Jahan Dotson

With no Terry McLaurin in the mix, Dotson emerged as Carson Wentz's favorite target. Actually, that may not be enough emphasis.

With no Terry McLaurin in the mix, Dotson emerged as Carson Wentz's FAVORITE TARGET. There, that's better.

When Washington drafted Dotson at pick No. 16 in the NFL Draft, some — including the person writing this story — worried that it wasn't the best possible outcome for a club that could've instead ended up with receiver Jameson Williams or safety Kyle Hamilton at No. 11. How Dotson has looked thus far is easing those concerns.

With the acknowledgment that Dotson will cede plenty of catches to McLaurin when he returns (Logan Thomas, when healthy, will be a factor, too), the Penn State rookie was a force at OTAs and minicamp thanks to his polish and duct tape-like hands. He just seems so professional already.

[Skinsinparadise]

Catching up with Finlay podcast crew.

 

They loved what they've seen from Dotson

 

They've added to the mix vibe I am getting about Dyami Brown, some have liked what they've seen, no one that I recall loves anything, some think "meh".  They are in the "meh" category about Dyami.  This isn't the first time I got that vibe about Dyami from then. 

 

Wentz has good chemistry with Dotson but you don't see much from Cam Sims or Dyami Brown in practice.

 

They go against the grain of Keim and Standig who are positive on Jamin Davis.  They are negative on Davis mainly because of all the reps Mayo gets at Davis' expense

 

It's a bit annoying for me that they among others in the local media seem convinced that the "real" defense was the one that struggled in the first half of the 2021 season versus the 2020 season so they expect the defense to stink.

 

They are worried about Samuel's health this season

 

They seem OK with Wentz

Edited June 21, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[samy316]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Catching up with Finlay podcast crew.

 

They loved what they've seen from Dotson

 

They've added to the mix vibe I am getting about Dyami Brown, some have liked what they've seen, no one that I recall loves anything, some think "meh".  They are in the "meh" category about Dyami.  This isn't the first time I got that vibe about Dyami from then. 

 

Wentz has good chemistry with Dotson but you don't see much from Cam Sims or Dyami Brown in practice.

 

They go against the grain of Keim and Standig who are positive on Jamin Davis.  They are negative on Davis mainly because of all the reps Mayo gets at Davis' expense

 

It's a bit annoying for me that they among others in the local media seem convinced that the "real" defense was the one that struggled in the first half of the 2021 season versus the 2020 season so they expect the defense to stink.

 

They are worried about Samuel's health this season

 

They seem OK with Wentz

 

I mean, this isn't necessarily a huge surprise.  I would wager that the D prior to last year was one of the most hyped units in the NFL.  It had pundits predicting us to win the NFC East, and winning playoff games.  To say it was a massive disappointment last year would be an understatement.  Right now, if you had to gage which unit on the team is seen as more reliable or trustworthy of being a good to great unit, it would have to be the offense.  What did we do to address our weak points such as LB, S or CB?  Unless you count the draft, we really didn't do anything of note to improve or enhance our massively underperforming D.  I would argue that the D is more of a liability right now to us having a playoff season than the offense is.  The D-Line in particular should have massive pressure to perform this year.  I think we understate how awful they were (especially Sweat & Young).  They should all have a chip on their shoulder to perform at the level they're expected to, including the overrated coordinator who is overseeing the defense.

[Koolblue13]

Outside of one borderline starter in Holcomb, we're going to field a defense with no linebackers worth a ****, so I'm having a very hard time seeing how this defense will be good.

[Tress Is The Way]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

Outside of one borderline starter in Holcomb, we're going to field a defense with no linebackers worth a ****, so I'm having a very hard time seeing how this defense will be good.

I wouldn't say Jamin isn't worth a damn.. he has the potential to be great.. he just needs things to start clicking. We will see how he does in TC.

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, ZarG3 said:

I wouldn't say Jamin isn't worth a damn.. he has the potential to be great.. he just needs things to start clicking. We will see how he does in TC.

Potential. Like Reyes potential? Or Dax Milne? Davis isn't getting snaps over David Mayo, the special teams linebacker. I'm not banking on Davis. There are a lot of guys with physical gifts and potential that don't play in the NFL.

[Tress Is The Way]

28 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Potential. Like Reyes potential? Or Dax Milne? Davis isn't getting snaps over David Mayo, the special teams linebacker. I'm not banking on Davis. There are a lot of guys with physical gifts and potential that don't play in the NFL.

Eh for only starting 8 games last year he still had half the combined tackles Holcomb did (76 vs. 142). Holcomb was in the top 10 in comb. tackles in the nfl last year. Jamin is a young 23 and I take OTAs with a grain of salt when it comes to players getting more time than others. Training Camp will show us a better picture in my opinion.

[Koolblue13]

Just now, ZarG3 said:

Eh for only starting 8 games last year he still had half the combined tackles Holcomb did (76 vs. 142). Holcomb was in the top 10 in comb. tackles in the nfl last year. Jamin is a young 23 and I take OTAs with a grain of salt when it comes to players getting more time than others. Training Camp will show us a better picture in my opinion.

He can be your imaginary all pro if you want and that's fine, but my original statement was accurate. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Corners potentially look decent.  D line should be good.  Those two spots according to most defensive guru types are the most important spots in the modern NFL defense.

 

Safeties and LB have some unknown variabes, those are the wildcard spots.  Safety might actually be more important than LB considering their 1-2 LB sets and conversely using 3 safeties.   Heavy emphasis on the defense on the safety spot and a major de-emphasis on LB.  Heck it seems like their growing default run stopping defense is going with 5 D lineman and 1 LB let alone 3 LBs. 

 

But I don't think its a coincidence last year that....

 

A.  Great offenses > Good defenses plays out around the league all the time, not always, but it plays out more often than not.  Some cite well what happens in the playoffs.  Yeah when its colder and its tougher to pass the ball -- a good defense has an easier time stopping a great offense.  That's true,  But lets get into the playoffs before worrying about that. 

 

I recall for example the 2018 season how hyped some were about the defense, they were off to a great start, playing mostly mediocre QB play.  All of a sudden they faced a hot Drew Brees and a hot Matt Ryan and they were carved up like they were nothing -- Alex couldn't game manage victories in settings like that. 

 

As to last year, I don't think too many defenses are stopping Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, Herbert, Allen, etc. 

 

I am not saying the defense wasn't playing poorly.  The secondary in particular was a hot mess.  But this isn't the 80s-90s anymore where defense trumps offense.  

 

B.  Landon playing Buffalo nickle and the secondary's screw ups settiing down seemed to help. The defense looked better in the 2nd half pre COVID outbreak and losing Collins.  Granted part of that was playing more mortal QBs.  

 

So as much as some make fun of Rivera's obsession with talking about the Buffalo nickle, I make fun of it too 😀 I get his obsession because that move seemed to coincide with their defense's emergence.  Feels like they are banking on Curl being that dude and St. Juste's size might help too in that nickle spot.

 

C.  Bad offense doesn't help the defense.  When the team was holding on to the ball and moving the ball some, the defense was rested and didn't have to play short fields as much.  So in my view, if this offense does make a leap, it should help the defense. 

 

But I think the local media's somewhat gone from one extreme to another.  2 years ago we had the 2nd coming of the 85 Bears defense to some of them (hyperbole to make a point) -- and now its a joke defense on par with any of the bad ones we've had during the Shanny and Jay era. 

 

Maybe the truth is somewhere in between?  I'd be surprised if this defense sucks.  But it wouldn't surprise if its middle of the pack.  I think though the lack of big QBs on their schedule might help them into the top 10. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

The LBs worry me too. Looks like we're planning on being in Nickel a lot, and I think a CB trio of WJ3/Fuller/Juice should be decent assuming the communication issues are taken care of. McCain/Kurl is an above average Safety duo(mainly because Kurl is very good). But man I feel like teams are just gonna go heavy and run right at us to get us out of our Nickel sets. 

[Tress Is The Way]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

He can be your imaginary all pro if you want and that's fine, but my original statement was accurate. 

In your opinion anything can be accurate lol, comparing potentials of a first round draft pick to a UDFA and a 7th rounder though, in my opinion, is asinine. To each their own though.

[Koolblue13]

8 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The LBs worry me too. Looks like we're planning on being in Nickel a lot, and I think a CB trio of WJ3/Fuller/Juice should be decent assuming the communication issues are taken care of. McCain/Kurl is an above average Safety duo(mainly because Kurl is very good). But man I feel like teams are just gonna go heavy and run right at us to get us out of our Nickel sets. 

I'm thinking a lot of 5-1-5 with a SS playing BN. Could be a really cool and exciting defense.

 

Could also suck again. 85 Bears or 21 WTF (first half).

[Conn]

46 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The LBs worry me too. Looks like we're planning on being in Nickel a lot, and I think a CB trio of WJ3/Fuller/Juice should be decent assuming the communication issues are taken care of. McCain/Kurl is an above average Safety duo(mainly because Kurl is very good). But man I feel like teams are just gonna go heavy and run right at us to get us out of our Nickel sets. 

This would be ideal. The MOST efficient thing for an NFL defense to do these days is entice the opposing offense to make the LEAST efficient choice they could possibly make—consistently run the ball. Then you just need to not get gashed for 2-300 yards. But if you have an explosive offense, by all means, encourage the opposing team to run the ball and fall behind. The pass is what you need to be able to stop. The paradigm just simply shifts if you have a QB and offense that can actually score points. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Conn said:

This would be ideal. The MOST efficient thing for an NFL defense to do these days is entice the opposing offense to make the LEAST efficient choice they could possibly make—consistently run the ball. Then you just need to not get gashed for 2-300 yards. But if you have an explosive offense, by all means, encourage the opposing team to run the ball and fall behind. The pass is what you need to be able to stop. The paradigm just simply shifts if you have a QB and offense that can actually score points. 

 

Yep and I'd add they were actually good for a change against the run last year.    And that's primarily playing with 1-2 LB sets.    Going with a big nickel or 5 D line sets

 

In previous seasons, before that, they were mediocre to bad against the run.  

Edited June 21, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[formerly4skins]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

I think a CB trio of WJ3/Fuller/Juice should be decent assuming the communication issues are taken care of.

 

WJ3 as CB1 and Juice as CB3 both make me nervous.

 

Juice got picked on badly in his limited appearances on D last year...dude can make a nice open field tackle, but got straight abused in coverage.

 

WJ3 just looked lost sometimes, and maybe that was down to the communication issues you mentioned. But, he hasn't exactly inspired confidence in holding down that CB1 spot.

[Warhead36]

36 minutes ago, formerly4skins said:

 

WJ3 as CB1 and Juice as CB3 both make me nervous.

 

Juice got picked on badly in his limited appearances on D last year...dude can make a nice open field tackle, but got straight abused in coverage.

 

WJ3 just looked lost sometimes, and maybe that was down to the communication issues you mentioned. But, he hasn't exactly inspired confidence in holding down that CB1 spot.

I think WJ3 looked better as the year went on last year. I agree with you on Juice, but young CBs tend to get beat before getting better. Kendall Fuller had struggles as a rookie. So did Travon Austin in fact in Dallas.

[Koolblue13]

29 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I think WJ3 looked better as the year went on last year. I agree with you on Juice, but young CBs tend to get beat before getting better. Kendall Fuller had struggles as a rookie. So did Travon Austin in fact in Dallas.

I'm as apprehensively in love with the secondary as I am the line. 

 

I can see where and why this defense could be really good, but we definitely need to be putting up a lot of points to take the run away.

 

Thinking about formations, if you played the 3 safeties and the 1 LBer like a diamond, where either safety on the side could flex north south and the deep played extra deep, it does put a ton of speed on the field and with Payne, Allen and Mathis tight in the middle, you're able to push the offense to one side or the other.

 

IDK, like I said, 85 bears or 21 early WTF. I don't think it'll be in the middle. It'll work great or not at all.

[Skinsinparadise]

Keim has been pushing this, to some extent Weinstein and Paulsen, too who have been in camp and talk to people.  The Finlay podcast group is pushing the opposite though granted without much meat to it - their point is Mayo is getting a lot of reps so enough said.  Will see what camp ends up right. 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[ntotoro]

My first year of little league football (Annandale Boys Club... 1985), I got a trophy for most improved player. Basically, I sucked and improved to "useable" in the first season I played. 

 

We'll see how Davis looks. Maybe he's useable now. Not bad for a 1st-round pick...

Edited June 27, 2022 by ntotoro

[Mrshadow008]

44 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Keim has been pushing this, to some extent Weinstein and Paulsen, too who have been in camp and talk to people.  The Finlay podcast group is pushing the opposite though granted without much meat to it - their point is Mayo is getting a lot of reps so enough said.  Will see what camp ends up right. 

 

 

I cant remember which one said it maybe Paulsen. But Im pretty sure I remember hearing that youre seeing a mix of Mayo and Davis with Holcomb in two Lber formations but in single lber formations youre seeing a lot of Davis. I think, idk of course, them mixing and match like that could be them trying to maximize both Davis and Holcombs skillsets more so than it being an indictment on Davis

[Skinsinparadise]

32 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

I cant remember which one said it maybe Paulsen. But Im pretty sure I remember hearing that youre seeing a mix of Mayo and Davis with Holcomb in two Lber formations but in single lber formations youre seeing a lot of Davis. I think, idk of course, them mixing and match like that could be them trying to maximize both Davis and Holcombs skillsets more so than it being an indictment on Davis

 

Yeah some Holcomb too in 1 LB sets.

 

But Paulsen said Davis looks more confident about his instincts and is flying to the ball the way you saw in college.  

 

In college, and we talked about this on the draft thread before that draft, Jamin's weakness was being too hesitant as far as reacting to a play.  In his defense he only played one year of college ball so trusting his instincts based on what he saw would arguably be a work in progress.  No shocker that weakness extended to the pros in season 1.

 

I've said before, not that the point has deep insight to it, which is the dude looked in college like a natural outside LB -- sideline to sideline range -- not an inside LB calling the defense.  I've had Rivera's back on almost everything but I did think they misevaluated Davis if the idea was to play him inside.  At a minimum him playing inside was a wildcard, so its not crazy for them to throw the dice on it as long as they knew he might end up playing outside.  And I'd add throwing a rookie wih limited college experience into the fire where he had to play inside and call the plays in training camp right from the jump likely shook up his confidence some because they immediately took him out of his comfort zone.

 

Paulsen said he looks much more comfortable and confident now.  I know some here already write him off as a bust.  But IMO the story is too early to tell.  I think the dude has a chance.  Aside from him playing now his more natural position, he's a special athlete -- elite level for LB.  And he supposedly has special intangibles -- comes from military familiy, super nice guy, super hard worker.  Will see but I think he at a minimum has a fighting chance. 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Skinsinparadise