The All Things 2022 OTAs/Training Camp Thread

[Voice_of_Reason]

50 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

People need to stop screaming the "1000 yard" stuff. 1000 yards really isn't that impressive nowadays in a 17 game offense friendly league where teams basically let you run the ball on them because the priority is to stop the pass. Gibson's production was off sheer volume. You give any half decent back that many carries and he'll get you 1000. He simply was not a good RB last year. Doesn't mean he doesn't have talent, but he needs to be utilized more as a RB/WR hybrid type, move him around in space, etc. 

FWIW, he played in 16 games. He had 1,037 yards, which works out to 64 yards per game.

 

He had 258 carries for an average of 4 YPC. Which is the second lowest of any RB in the top 10 in yards for last year.  Najee Harris had 3.9 YPC, but carried the ball a whopping 307 times.  The only player who had more carries was Jonathan Taylor at 332  But Taylor led the league in average at 5.5 YPC.  

 

The team thought so highly of Gibson they drafted a RB in the 3rd round.  If you have a solid RB1 on your team, you DO NOT draft a RB in the 3rd round.  They drafted Robinson to play.  I said when they picked him, he was going to have more carries than Gibson.  

 

I like Gibson as a guy they could move around, get the ball to in space, use as a receiver at times.  I think they came to the conclusion last year he just wasn't a between the tackle runner.  He's not good at it, misses cuts and holes, and he fumbles too much.

 

There IS a place for him on the team.  It's just a different place.  

 

He is not good enough to fetch anything in a trade.  Also, RBs are a dime a dozen.  No team would spend capital to trade for an average RB in today's NFL.  There are plenty of average RBs out there that can do what Gibson has done.

 

Now, the question is, can he do better?  He has the talent to do better in a different role.  This year with Robinson, he might have a different role and might excel.  That's the hope anyway.  

[Commander Wolffe]

I agree. The curious case of Gibson is his hands as it relates to catching the ball isn't as reliable as you would think as a former WR. In an ideal world you would use him like Debo Samuel/Curtis Samuel. 

 

Perhaps we use him more like Curtis Samuel with slightly less WR responsibilities.  Screens, underneath stuff and motion into the backfield for a few carries. 8-12 touches per game. 

 

Still could be a fun and impactful player just need to be more selective and creative with his usage. They tried to use him more like C-Mac thinking his natural size could take the pounding but he lacks the instincts to play the position full time.

 

 

[skins4eva]

8 hours ago, KDawg said:

If you think ball security in between 6-8 diesel truck sized men and returning kicks with a bunch of 200 pounders spread out is the same difference I have some swamp land in Florida for sale.

 

We are going to see with Gibson.  They put too much pressure on him too quickly by shoehorning him into a role he isn't suited for.  Now, the fumbling ball security is as much mental as it is anything else, and unless we get to the core of the issue and he fixes it, it will absolutely show itself on special teams.

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

The team thought so highly of Gibson they drafted a RB in the 3rd round.  If you have a solid RB1 on your team, you DO NOT draft a RB in the 3rd round.  They drafted Robinson to play.  I said when they picked him, he was going to have more carries than Gibson. 

 

Aaron Jones is a pretty good RB no?  You draft special playmakers where you can get them, it's not a reflection of the guys you already have because every good offense needs to build a stable of talent in their backfield.  You need multiple explosive playmakers to make it through a modern season with your offense playing at a high level the whole way.  You need more than one back you can trust to shoulder your offense for a significant stretch of games because they're going to have to at some point as every back gets hurt and either misses time or plays with vastly diminished effectiveness or both.  Putting yourself in a situation where you have to rely on a guy battling through at 60% is a team building failure.  And that's where we have been at with Gibson.

 

Gibson has his flaws but he is a good player and a legitimately explosive weapon.  A lack of ability with Gibson is not the reason we needed to draft Robinson, it's because we ended up in a situation where both McKissic and Gibson were hurt during the critical stretch of our season and our stable was too thin to cope.

 

Give us a healthy Roullier back and give us credible replacements for Scherff and Flowers and a healthy Gibson will absolutely play better and be a major weapon as a high volume ball carrier.  He's going to be good and when he gets hurt, we can keep it moving via having two strong back ups in the stable.

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

People need to stop screaming the "1000 yard" stuff. 1000 yards really isn't that impressive nowadays in a 17 game offense friendly league where teams basically let you run the ball on them because the priority is to stop the pass. Gibson's production was off sheer volume. You give any half decent back that many carries and he'll get you 1000. He simply was not a good RB last year. Doesn't mean he doesn't have talent, but he needs to be utilized more as a RB/WR hybrid type, move him around in space, etc. 

 

I think it's the other way around.  Modern backs don't get continuously fed empty touches any more, they have to be more efficient and threatening on a per snap basis and they are kept on much more disciplined pitch counts.  In that context, 2500 AP yards is good production for a back's first two seasons.  Only the superstar MVP caliber backs get old school carry volume, and in almost every situation where you see that happening it's a very precarious offensive system that will collapse if that back goes down.  The best offenses have more balance and depth.

 

The pertinent questions to ask when assessing a back are is he a threatening playmaker?  Do I trust him to haul the offensive load for a game if I need him to?  If you can't answer yes to those questions with at least three different players on your depth chart, then you're going to run into trouble at some point in your season.  It's the way you have to recruit and draft now.  The answer with Gibson is definitely yes, and despite that, we still definitely need all three of our good backs on the roster.

[Koolblue13]

10 OL and 6 WR is pretty much a lock and you figure we'll carry 25 on offense.

 

At minimum

2 QB

3 RB

3 TE

 

The health of our TE room makes me think Rogers might make TE4, but I know they're high on Turner and Thomas and Bates should be back.

I think they are really high on Williams at RB and Gibson might be finding himself as a RB/WR, so 4 RBs is possible. If Gibson steps into a Carter like role, maybe they do go 5 WR and 4 RBs.

 

Definitely some interesting camp battle to watch.

 

On defense I think we definitely go 10 DL and 10 DB, but with only 4 legit LBers, maybe they use the extra roster spot on offense, although I'm guessing it'll be an 11th DB.

[HigSkin]

I feel bad for Gibby.  He's got player support and really think he'll rebound.

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

12 hours ago, TheShredder said:

They have to get a RG. I expect Turner likely goes to IR. If he comes back he will never be full strength this year.

Torn quad that isn't surgically repaired is never the same and can take a year to fuse deep enough to rehab effectively.

Already OL injuries are continuing to degrade potential results. Why this team doesn't fill holes effectively is gross negligence.

This is what I expect too. Kinda early now and might not happen till week 1, but I don't see him starting the year on the roster. 

[CobraCommander]

13 hours ago, skinsfan93 said:

We don’t need a running back who is “dynamic “.

 

Last year he had one play on a screen pass where he looked dynamic.
 

 

This is where the disconnect exists with the coaching staff imo. Although I don't think they had a choice but to keep going to Gibson last year.

 

Give him the ball in space, not behind a line with a 8 man box.

 

Switch it up between him and McKissic. I'd love to see two of these guys on the field and the same time.

 

Please gameplan with Robinson/McKissic, Robinson/Gibson, Gibson/McKissic. That seems like a nightmare for defenses to figure out but I'm just a dummy, not a football coach. 

[Koolblue13]

29 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

This is what I expect too. Kinda early now and might not happen till week 1, but I don't see him starting the year on the roster. 

Is Ishmel not able to play guard at all? That seems odd to only be a center. And today our guards are Norwell and Cosmi, right? Where's Paul that we keep hearing about?

 

I'm not too worried about the Oline, because they've been awesome moving around, but TT is definitely a concern.

[HigSkin]

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

9 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Is Ishmel not able to play guard at all? That seems odd to only be a center. And today our guards are Norwell and Cosmi, right? Where's Paul that we keep hearing about?

 

I'm not too worried about the Oline, because they've been awesome moving around, but TT is definitely a concern.

I think Ismael and Larson are purely centers. At least that's what I've heard.  Could they play some guard in a pinch, sure.  But I think they are primarily centers.

[Koolblue13]

Just now, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think Ismael and Larson are purely centers. At least that's what I've heard.  Could they play some guard in a pinch, sure.  But I think they are primarily centers.

Larson is a tackle. Right? It was Larson and Leno last year?

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

I love the fact Keim (and others) mock Russell.  Especially for the running the ball thing.  But other things as well.  I get that it's all in fun, but he is a caricature of himself. 

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Larson is a tackle. Right? It was Larson and Leno last year?

Leno and Lucas are the tackles. 

 

Roullier, Larson and Ismael are the centers.  

 

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I love the fact Keim (and others) mock Russell.  Especially for the running the ball thing.  But other things as well.  I get that it's all in fun, but he is a caricature of himself. 

Leno and Lucas are the tackles. 

 

Roullier, Larson and Ismael are the centers.  

 

Lucas, Leno, Larson   Tough to keep them straight.

[Skinsinparadise]

Keim's last podcast.

 

A.  Gibson has had a good camp and responded well to his fumble this week in practice.  They want him to be involved in this offense. 

 

B.  Steven Parker has had a good camp, hard to keep him off the roster

 

C.  Chris Paul has looked good, he's been saying this on and off for weeks.

 

D.  He interviewed Carson.  some of his thoughts including:  Carson likes Northern Virginia, its more his scene than Philly, really out doors type.  He might be evolving as a player-teammate.  He's married and more comfortable.  Players can bond to him more perhaps because of the adversity he went through in recent years.  Doing cook outs with teammates including with Leno and Way.  In short, he thinks Carson mentally might be in a better place than he has been in recent years.   

Edited August 18, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[kingdaddy]

35 minutes ago, CobraCommander said:

This is where the disconnect exists with the coaching staff imo. Although I don't think they had a choice but to keep going to Gibson last year.

 

Give him the ball in space, not behind a line with a 8 man box.

 

Switch it up between him and McKissic. I'd love to see two of these guys on the field and the same time.

 

Please gameplan with Robinson/McKissic, Robinson/Gibson, Gibson/McKissic. That seems like a nightmare for defenses to figure out but I'm just a dummy, not a football coach. 

Good thought, maybe even give McKissic some carries at times to see what he can do? Move Gibby all over the field and create mismatches? It should be easy to do with his skills.

[HigSkin]

For real....

 

 

[CobraCommander]

Just now, HigSkin said:

For real....

 

 

Does seem like a lot of people are looking past week 1. The Jags have talent, their coach last year was just a complete ass. 

[NickyJ]

Those are all good points, but it's the Jags. We should win that.

Edited August 18, 2022 by NickyJ

[HigSkin]

 

QB (3): Carson Wentz, Taylor Heinicke, Sam Howell (R) 

There is the very minute chance Howell shows he is farther along than most thought, therefore; challenging Heinicke for the backup spot. I don’t see that happening though. All three are likely to be on the final roster.

RB (3): Antonio Gibson, J.D. McKissic, Brian Robinson (R) 

This one is another fairly easy one to diagnose. While Gibson could lose out on some snaps to Robinson if he continues to put the ball on the turf, his roster spot is safe. Jaret Patterson or Jonathan Williams could challenge for a spot if they show an ability to produce on special teams.

TE (4): Logan Thomas (PUP?), John Bates, Cole Turner (R), Armani Rogers (R) 

If Thomas starts out the season on the Physically Unable to Perform List, Curtis Hodges would most likely take his place until Thomas is back healthy. Or, Washington could go with just three tight ends.

However, as it sits, the first three are a given, with the final spot coming down to Rogers or Hodges. Rogers just barely edges out Hodges given his quick development being impressive with his newness to the position, as he is a converted college QB.

WR (6): Terry McLaurin, Jahan Dotson (R), Curtis Samuel, Cam Sims, Dyami Brown, Dax Milne

Sims and Brown are near locks, in my opinion, to be primary backups to the starting three. Milne edges out free-agent signing Alex Erickson, who was the punt returner for the Panthers in 2021. Milne has shown more juice as a pass-catcher than Erickson, can also return punts and is a draft pick of the current regime.

OL (10): Charles Leno, Andrew Norwell, Chase Roullier, Trai Turner, Wes Schweitzer, Sam Cosmi, Cornelius Lucas, Saahdiq Charles, Keith Ismael, Chris Paul (R) 

The only question mark here would be the final three: Charles, Ismael, and Paul. Charles seems fairly entrenched as a key reserve player with tackle flexibility, Ismael is the only center behind Roullier on the roster and Paul has been very impressive at guard. Tyler Larsen will begin the year on PUP.

Offense: 26

 

 

DL (9): *Chase Young*- PUP – Montez Sweat, Jonathan Allen, Daron Payne, James Smith-Williams, Casey Toohill, Phidarian Mathis (R), Daniel Wise, Efe Obada, Shaka Toney

With Young likely beginning the year on PUP, meaning he doesn’t count against the 53-man roster, the Commanders elect to keep nine defensive linemen. Daniel Wise flashed in a big way, as a pass rusher against the Panthers. He posted a sack and multiple pressures. He is well on his way to being a lock, with the others ahead of him.  Toney edges out William Bradley-King for the final spot on the defensive front with his ability to play on special teams.

 

LB (5): Cole Holcomb, Jamin Davis, David Mayo, Khaleke Hudson, Nathan Gerry 

Welcome to a very mediocre, yet fairly easy to diagnose the names making the roster, linebacker room. The only name really in contention here is Gerry. Signed just a few weeks ago, the Commanders like his ability to run and cover. Another name to watch is undrafted free agent Tre Walker.

CB (5): Kendall Fuller, William Jackson III, Benjamin St-Juste, Danny Johnson, Christian Holmes (R) 

Danny Johnson survives to live another day, as he continues to keep a roster spot for the Commanders. Johnson edges out Corn Elder given his positional flexibility and ability to return kicks. Holmes has looked impressive, as he is an older, more advanced rookie.

As you can tell, the depth behind the top three is, well, lackluster to say the least. The Commanders could be “buyers” at this position, especially post cutdown.

S (5): Kam Curl, Bobby McCain, Darrick Forrest, Percy Butler (R), and Steven Parker 

Write the first four names in pen, they are locks. Curl and McCain, with a second year under their belt, can be a solid safety tandem for the Commanders. Forrest and Butler both will be core special teamers, that also play on defense. Parker, who received the highest PFF grade on the team against the Panthers edges out Jeremy Reaves due to having more experience on special teams.

He also is a bit more versatile than Reaves, playing almost a dead-even split of his snaps in the box and at free safety.

Defense: 24

 

Specialists (3): K Joey Slye, P Tress Way, LS Camaron Cheeseman 

Sharpie.

 

Just Missed the Cut: S Jeremy Reaves, TE Curtis Hodges, CB Corn Elder, WR Alex Erickson, WR Kelvin Harmon, RB Jaret Patterson, RB Jonathan Williams 

These players will all be strong candidates to land on the practice squad.

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by HigSkin

[Mrshadow008]

14 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

QB (3): Carson Wentz, Taylor Heinicke, Sam Howell (R) 

There is the very minute chance Howell shows he is farther along than most thought, therefore; challenging Heinicke for the backup spot. I don’t see that happening though. All three are likely to be on the final roster.

RB (3): Antonio Gibson, J.D. McKissic, Brian Robinson (R) 

This one is another fairly easy one to diagnose. While Gibson could lose out on some snaps to Robinson if he continues to put the ball on the turf, his roster spot is safe. Jaret Patterson or Jonathan Williams could challenge for a spot if they show an ability to produce on special teams.

TE (4): Logan Thomas (PUP?), John Bates, Cole Turner (R), Armani Rogers (R) 

If Thomas starts out the season on the Physically Unable to Perform List, Curtis Hodges would most likely take his place until Thomas is back healthy. Or, Washington could go with just three tight ends.

However, as it sits, the first three are a given, with the final spot coming down to Rogers or Hodges. Rogers just barely edges out Hodges given his quick development being impressive with his newness to the position, as he is a converted college QB.

WR (6): Terry McLaurin, Jahan Dotson (R), Curtis Samuel, Cam Sims, Dyami Brown, Dax Milne

Sims and Brown are near locks, in my opinion, to be primary backups to the starting three. Milne edges out free-agent signing Alex Erickson, who was the punt returner for the Panthers in 2021. Milne has shown more juice as a pass-catcher than Erickson, can also return punts and is a draft pick of the current regime.

OL (10): Charles Leno, Andrew Norwell, Chase Roullier, Trai Turner, Wes Schweitzer, Sam Cosmi, Cornelius Lucas, Saahdiq Charles, Keith Ismael, Chris Paul (R) 

The only question mark here would be the final three: Charles, Ismael, and Paul. Charles seems fairly entrenched as a key reserve player with tackle flexibility, Ismael is the only center behind Roullier on the roster and Paul has been very impressive at guard. Tyler Larsen will begin the year on PUP.

Offense: 26

 

 

DL (9): *Chase Young*- PUP – Montez Sweat, Jonathan Allen, Daron Payne, James Smith-Williams, Casey Toohill, Phidarian Mathis (R), Daniel Wise, Efe Obada, Shaka Toney

With Young likely beginning the year on PUP, meaning he doesn’t count against the 53-man roster, the Commanders elect to keep nine defensive linemen. Daniel Wise flashed in a big way, as a pass rusher against the Panthers. He posted a sack and multiple pressures. He is well on his way to being a lock, with the others ahead of him.  Toney edges out William Bradley-King for the final spot on the defensive front with his ability to play on special teams.

 

LB (5): Cole Holcomb, Jamin Davis, David Mayo, Khaleke Hudson, Nathan Gerry 

Welcome to a very mediocre, yet fairly easy to diagnose the names making the roster, linebacker room. The only name really in contention here is Gerry. Signed just a few weeks ago, the Commanders like his ability to run and cover. Another name to watch is undrafted free agent Tre Walker.

CB (5): Kendall Fuller, William Jackson III, Benjamin St-Juste, Danny Johnson, Christian Holmes (R) 

Danny Johnson survives to live another day, as he continues to keep a roster spot for the Commanders. Johnson edges out Corn Elder given his positional flexibility and ability to return kicks. Holmes has looked impressive, as he is an older, more advanced rookie.

As you can tell, the depth behind the top three is, well, lackluster to say the least. The Commanders could be “buyers” at this position, especially post cutdown.

S (5): Kam Curl, Bobby McCain, Darrick Forrest, Percy Butler (R), and Steven Parker 

Write the first four names in pen, they are locks. Curl and McCain, with a second year under their belt, can be a solid safety tandem for the Commanders. Forrest and Butler both will be core special teamers, that also play on defense. Parker, who received the highest PFF grade on the team against the Panthers edges out Jeremy Reaves due to having more experience on special teams.

He also is a bit more versatile than Reaves, playing almost a dead-even split of his snaps in the box and at free safety.

Defense: 24

 

Specialists (3): K Joey Slye, P Tress Way, LS Camaron Cheeseman 

Sharpie.

 

Just Missed the Cut: S Jeremy Reaves, TE Curtis Hodges, CB Corn Elder, WR Alex Erickson, WR Kelvin Harmon, RB Jaret Patterson, RB Jonathan Williams 

These players will all be strong candidates to land on the practice squad.

 

I hope my dream of getting Corn Elder covering Randall CObb during the GB game aren't dashed 

[FootballZombie]

19 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

Those are all good points, but it's the Jags. We should win that.

 

There is truly no such thing as an easy W in the NFL, especially for the teams that are not considered great.

 

But at the same time I can't act like the NFL schedule committee didn't do us a God-level solid by letting us start are season w/ the worst two teams from last year right when we launch a re-brand. They are giving us the best possible oppo for a good start which they know would be good for the league. Gotta get some dubs.

[Koolblue13]

15 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

QB (3): Carson Wentz, Taylor Heinicke, Sam Howell (R) 

There is the very minute chance Howell shows he is farther along than most thought, therefore; challenging Heinicke for the backup spot. I don’t see that happening though. All three are likely to be on the final roster.

RB (3): Antonio Gibson, J.D. McKissic, Brian Robinson (R) 

This one is another fairly easy one to diagnose. While Gibson could lose out on some snaps to Robinson if he continues to put the ball on the turf, his roster spot is safe. Jaret Patterson or Jonathan Williams could challenge for a spot if they show an ability to produce on special teams.

TE (4): Logan Thomas (PUP?), John Bates, Cole Turner (R), Armani Rogers (R) 

If Thomas starts out the season on the Physically Unable to Perform List, Curtis Hodges would most likely take his place until Thomas is back healthy. Or, Washington could go with just three tight ends.

However, as it sits, the first three are a given, with the final spot coming down to Rogers or Hodges. Rogers just barely edges out Hodges given his quick development being impressive with his newness to the position, as he is a converted college QB.

WR (6): Terry McLaurin, Jahan Dotson (R), Curtis Samuel, Cam Sims, Dyami Brown, Dax Milne

Sims and Brown are near locks, in my opinion, to be primary backups to the starting three. Milne edges out free-agent signing Alex Erickson, who was the punt returner for the Panthers in 2021. Milne has shown more juice as a pass-catcher than Erickson, can also return punts and is a draft pick of the current regime.

OL (10): Charles Leno, Andrew Norwell, Chase Roullier, Trai Turner, Wes Schweitzer, Sam Cosmi, Cornelius Lucas, Saahdiq Charles, Keith Ismael, Chris Paul (R) 

The only question mark here would be the final three: Charles, Ismael, and Paul. Charles seems fairly entrenched as a key reserve player with tackle flexibility, Ismael is the only center behind Roullier on the roster and Paul has been very impressive at guard. Tyler Larsen will begin the year on PUP.

Offense: 26

 

 

DL (9): *Chase Young*- PUP – Montez Sweat, Jonathan Allen, Daron Payne, James Smith-Williams, Casey Toohill, Phidarian Mathis (R), Daniel Wise, Efe Obada, Shaka Toney

With Young likely beginning the year on PUP, meaning he doesn’t count against the 53-man roster, the Commanders elect to keep nine defensive linemen. Daniel Wise flashed in a big way, as a pass rusher against the Panthers. He posted a sack and multiple pressures. He is well on his way to being a lock, with the others ahead of him.  Toney edges out William Bradley-King for the final spot on the defensive front with his ability to play on special teams.

 

LB (5): Cole Holcomb, Jamin Davis, David Mayo, Khaleke Hudson, Nathan Gerry 

Welcome to a very mediocre, yet fairly easy to diagnose the names making the roster, linebacker room. The only name really in contention here is Gerry. Signed just a few weeks ago, the Commanders like his ability to run and cover. Another name to watch is undrafted free agent Tre Walker.

CB (5): Kendall Fuller, William Jackson III, Benjamin St-Juste, Danny Johnson, Christian Holmes (R) 

Danny Johnson survives to live another day, as he continues to keep a roster spot for the Commanders. Johnson edges out Corn Elder given his positional flexibility and ability to return kicks. Holmes has looked impressive, as he is an older, more advanced rookie.

As you can tell, the depth behind the top three is, well, lackluster to say the least. The Commanders could be “buyers” at this position, especially post cutdown.

S (5): Kam Curl, Bobby McCain, Darrick Forrest, Percy Butler (R), and Steven Parker 

Write the first four names in pen, they are locks. Curl and McCain, with a second year under their belt, can be a solid safety tandem for the Commanders. Forrest and Butler both will be core special teamers, that also play on defense. Parker, who received the highest PFF grade on the team against the Panthers edges out Jeremy Reaves due to having more experience on special teams.

He also is a bit more versatile than Reaves, playing almost a dead-even split of his snaps in the box and at free safety.

Defense: 24

 

Specialists (3): K Joey Slye, P Tress Way, LS Camaron Cheeseman 

Sharpie.

 

Just Missed the Cut: S Jeremy Reaves, TE Curtis Hodges, CB Corn Elder, WR Alex Erickson, WR Kelvin Harmon, RB Jaret Patterson, RB Jonathan Williams 

These players will all be strong candidates to land on the practice squad.

 

Reaves/Parker is the only one that I'm not in 100% agreement with.

[Mrshadow008]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

Reaves/Parker is the only one that I'm not in 100% agreement with.

Agree on Reaves. Kinda feel like we've heard his name too much to be cut