2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[DWinzit]

22 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am started to catch up to the Senior Bowl reps and game for that matter.   I mentioned on gameday that Mauch looked good to me in the game.   I watched the Wright clips.  I watched the Bergeron clips.

 

If Ron is as obsessive as he seems to be the Titans of the NFC East -- running downhill with Brian Robinson, sprinkled with some big runs for Antonio Gibson -- its hard for me to see him not failling hard for Cody Mauch and Darnell Washington.

 

And I gather I am still on on island about this but if I am going deeper in the draft, Brayden Willis.   

 

Bring some nastiness to the run game with really good 2nd level ability.   If you want to bully other teams than bring some bullies to do it. 

 

I know TEs who are really good blockers are boring in theory.  But Darnell Washington is such a freak on that front both as a pass blocker and run blocker and yeah he can catch too.  If they trade down deep in the first, I think I'll be one of the few here who wouldn't jump off a bridge if they took him.  I am still a Michael Mayer guy.  But if they are trading down or somehow Washington falls to 47, he'd be on the table for me. 

 

I think he will be a better pro than college player.  In college he was overshadowed by an elite go to TE.    We talk here about how some players are productive in college but don't have the size-athleticism to match it in the NFL.  That point though goes both ways -- you bring a dude who is a freak athlete with ability to the NFL they can exceed expectations.  If Darnell runs in the 4'6s as some suspect.  Who is the other 270 pound, with a frame that looks like he was built in a lab who can run that fast and is that level strong?  And again, I'll wait to the combine maybe his athleticsm isn't all that its cracked up to be, will see, but it looks it to me. 

 

In the past some here talk about Kittle's elite athleticism and he slipped through the cracks in the draft and made the point that it happens a lot.  Get your Kittle in the 5th.  I've watched a lot of TEs in recent years, and I don't think it happens a heck of a lot at least not lately, maybe the NFL has caught up to the point?

 

I don't see another Darnell Washington in the next tier grouping. Maybe 5 years ago, he would slip to the 4th round.  But clearly not in today's times. 

Mauch and Bergeron slide right into that 2-3 round OL talents that could really bolster our OL. I enjoyed watching Mauch play the different positions in the Senior Bowl.

 

Yes I could see RR salivating at the thoughts of adding one of those guys and Mayer or Washington. I am way more on board with Mayer

 

I have one foot on your Brayden Willis island with the other still on the boat. I have not seen a lot of him but I do like what you have posted on him along with the little other write ups I have read. 

 

You and I have seen TE's in a very similar light over the years. It is your TE breakdowns and thoughts that I most enjoy of all your evals. Kind of like with @KDawg evals of LB's and S's and @Going Commandowith OL

 

My gut is they will OL not TE at 16, as I have stated I see Mayer as gone before 16 and none of the others are worthy of and early to mid first selection. So I think another mid round TE will be what we end out with or they dip into the FA pool here for a decent vet to match with the young guys we already have. Would love to see Turner getting more action

12 hours ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

I think they'll take CB over O-line if one of the top 3 OL are not there.  If the top 3 CBs (as well as the top 3 OL) are gone, I think they try like heck to trade down.  Right now, I have as a top 16 mock (no trades) as being:

 

1). Chicago-Carter

2). Hou-Young

3). Az-Anderson

4). Ind-Stroud

5). Sea-Wilson

6). Det-Witherspoon (They almost took Sauce last year)

7).  LV-Skoronski

8.  Atl-Bijon

9). Car-Levis

10). Phi-Gonzalez

11). Tennessee-Johnson

12). Hou-Murphy

13). Jets-Jones

14). NE-Porter

15). GB-Mayer

16). Wash-Branch

 

Kind of a nightmare situation for us, but I went with Branch as a MR. versatility type.  I'd try like heck to trade down however.  Branch feels BPA here.

If forced to select at 16 in this situation Branch would be a really solid addition for JDR's defense. It would also mean OL as the next up selection.

[Koolblue13]

I guess if we drafted Branch, that would firmly plant McCain at CB again.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

I guess if we drafted Branch, that would firmly plant McCain at CB again.

I think it moves McCain to free agency.

 

Branch, Curl can play that hybrid CB/S/Nickel Corner role. 

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

I think it moves McCain to free agency.

 

Branch, Curl can play that hybrid CB/S/Nickel Corner role. 

I'm not sure how it would influence our cap, but McCain is pretty good and we don't have a lot in our secondary. Juice can't stay on the field. DeFo looked lost when Curl was out. Fuller is most likely a cap casualty this year or next. We need to add to our secondary, not deplete it and count on dudes like Wildgoose and Danny Johnson.

[Skinsinparadise]

54 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

 

My gut is they will OL not TE at 16, as I have stated I see Mayer as gone before 16 and none of the others are worthy of and early to mid first selection. So I think another mid round TE will be what we end out with or they dip into the FA pool here for a decent vet to match with the young guys we already have. Would love to see Turner getting more action

 

 

Mayer IMO is one the safest picks in the draft.  Can do it all.  But I do think he will be available at 16 if his combine goes the way most expect where his speed comes off pedestrian.  He's more of a physical-contested catch guy.  Kind of like the Drake London of the TEs but who can bloick. 

 

Don't get me wrong he's my #1 TE, I'd want him.   But I think with Washington and Musgrave and maybe even Kincaid likely burning up the combine, I think Mayer might drop to the 20s as I see him do and many current mocks. 

 

If I recall the Darnell Washington people here are me, @KDawg, @Conn and I might be forgetting a person or two.  The thing I find ironic about Washington is he fits the profile to a tee of those who like to say over the years don't take a TE early because its about freak athleticism, find that guy, like Kittle who oddly will drop and take him later in the draft.  What i am finding though it the secret is out, its not just us who knows that, so these guys are going earlier now.

 

Washington's 454 yards and 16 plus YPA last season would beat any year by a good margin that Kittle had in college.  It's not that he's JUST a blocker. He can do it all.  A dude who is that freakish fits exactly the model that some have purported, including myself, that he will be better in the NFL than college.  The one thing I gather held against Washington is the fact that dudes like that don't tend to drop the same way in the draft anymore, you got to take them earlier.  16 is too rich but late first-early 2nd isn't crazy to me.  If he's at 47, definitely.  Again depending on who else is there.

 

 

Look at this dude in high school.  I've watched a lot of TEs over the years, don't recall one that is this freakish as to size-speed-power.   Supposedly good guy, who grew up in poverty.

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.on3.com/college/georgia-bulldogs/news/kirby-smart-raves-about-darnell-washington-details-his-journey-to-playing-on-monday-tight-end-sec-college-football/

“Darnell is a classic guy that came to Georgia with the sole purpose of having an opportunity at the NFL. He wanted to play in the NFL. And by the time he left, he was one of the toughest players we had,” added the Georgia leader. “Missouri, his shoulder pops out, and he will not come out of the game. I mean, he made two probably career-defining catches against Missouri, contested catches, with a shoulder that was hurt and he wouldn’t come out. LSU, he gets cut. He’s 6’7” and they cut him at his ankles and shins, nothing worse than that, and he’s waving people off — I’m not coming out; like, I’m pissed off.

“To see that growth and to see him care about winning the game last night, like, he played last night selflessly. Not a lot of throws targeted for Darnell. It was blocking and covering people up. And that part will always hold a special place in my heart for the sacrifices he made for our team.”

 

 

https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/football/desert-pines-darnell-washington-from-poverty-to-prized-recruit/

Darnell is a 17-year-old junior at Desert Pines, a tight end and defensive end on the team who embodies that same moral decency, albeit in a 6-foot-8-inch, 260-pound frame and as one of the most prized football recruits in Las Vegas history. So athletic that he also was a starting power forward on the state championship basketball team and won the Class 3A state shot put last season.

The Washingtons have used academics and athletics to veer away from the cyclical perils of generational poverty and pave a path toward the prosperity that has eluded their family for years.

Ezekiel is in line to earn an academic scholarship to the school of his choosing.

Darnell is ranked by Rivals.com as the No. 1 tight end in the country in the 2020 class and has scholarship offers from more than 20 Division I universities, including Alabama, Georgia, Auburn, Louisiana State, Texas and Oklahoma. Programs reserved for the best of the best. Programs unaware of his mere existence until last fall.

 

His recruitment is flourishing in part because the rest of his life is, too.

He knows he has a place to sleep every night with food in the refrigerator, power and running water. He’s attending the same school for the second straight year and has a supportive group of teammates, teachers and coaches that are invested in his success.

And he doesn’t take any of it for granted.

“I know what I went through,” he said. “I just don’t know where to start.”

Life in Las Vegas

Let’s start with the father who deserted Darnell and Ezekiel when they were 6 and 7, forcing Graves to protect her boys to the best of her ability. She did just that while trying to preserve the natural innocence of childhood.

But they still grew up too fast amid the reality of impoverishment in the Las Vegas Valley.

Edited February 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

A mock from the Athletic

 

 

[DWinzit]

Washington is a man among boys in that high school clip. He is definitely intriguing but I don't like him at 16. I like Mayers all around abilities and the "safeness" in selecting him.

 

I don't think the team takes a TE in the first because RR will be viewing this draft as must hits right away. He is not looking into who will be good over the next few years but is the player going to do for me now. That's why I could see them grabbing OL or a guy like a Branch as currently being discussed. What his talents and versatility bring to the team right away are impact full, giving RR his immediate gratification 

 

 

[Chump Bailey]

If we take Simpson over guys like Porter, Darnell Washington, Robinson, Antonio Johnson, Mayer, Torrence and Cam Smith I will have a conniption. 

[Skinsinparadise]

20 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Washington is a man among boys in that high school clip. He is definitely intriguing but I don't like him at 16. I like Mayers all around abilities and the "safeness" in selecting him.

 

I don't think the team takes a TE in the first because RR will be viewing this draft as must hits right away. He is not looking into who will be good over the next few years but is the player going to do for me now. That's why I could see them grabbing OL or a guy like a Branch as currently being discussed. What his talents and versatility bring to the team right away are impact full, giving RR his immediate gratification 

 

 

 

As for players right now projected at 16, Mayer, C Gonzlaez I'd take maybe Broderick Jones, maybe Porter.  I haven't dived in yet on the first round WRs because i am assuming they won't take one.

 

But by and large I'd love to trade down.  There aren't too many guys I covet at 16, Washington included.  But if they can trade down into the later first, it opens things up for me on a bunch of players.

 

The irony is Rivera's desire to win now makes me think Washington is a dark horse pick they might really consider if they can trade down.  If he is sworn to running a Titans style offense which is about running the ball -- Washington is a unique weapon on that front who can hit the ground running, pun intended.

 

Part of the reason why I like touting Brayden Willis is he's a poor man's version of Washington purely as to 2nd level blocks. They are both unique in that they motor down the field and pancake guys to spring big runs.  That's not the typical TE. 

 

Gong back to Washington, if you leave him on an island for example like SF did with a TE in the playoff game against Reddick because of sliding protections or whatever, Washington as a pass blocker is no joke, he'd actually have a good fighting chance.  Yeah I think considering this division, Washington would help Ron win now.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

9 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

If we take Simpson over guys like Porter, Darnell Washington, Robinson, Antonio Johnson, Mayer, Torrence and Cam Smith I will have a conniption. 

I like Simpson but I have problems seeing him fit on this defense. 

[Chump Bailey]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Part of the reason why I like touting Brayden Willis is he's a poor man's version of Washington.  But they are both unique in that they motor down the field and pancake guys to spring big runs.  That's not the typical TE. 

 

Willis is not a name familiar to me. Thanks SIP, look forward to digging into him. Darnell Washington was the first TE that caught my attention with his blocking prowess. I still like Kincaid more than any of them personally though I'd be happy with any of the top 3. 

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I like Simpson but I have problems seeing him fit on this defense. 

 

I like him too but the players taken after him in that particular mock are far superior prospects, IMO

Edited February 9, 2023 by Chump Bailey

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

Willis is not a name familiar to me. Thanks SIP, look forward to digging him. Darnell Washington was the first TE that caught my attention with his blocking prowess. I still like Kincaid more than any of them personally though I'd be happy with any of the top 3. 

 

Later round player H-back, I've talked about him on and off for weeks. I guess I need to ramp it up 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Chump Bailey]

I think I was confusing Brayden Willis with the OG prospect Braeden Daniels for some odd reason in your posts SIP.

[KDawg]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Later round player H-back, I've talked about him on and off for weeks. I guess I need to ramp it up 

 

 

 

 

Yeah. I watched him too. He's a jack of all trades, master of none. Not a great receiver, but good. Not a true in-line Y but can play in-line fairly well, but can also play H and FB. Not fast but not slow (at least watching him on film... there are times where he flies by everyone and times he gets hawked). He is all hustle, though. My favorite play of his is when he blocks a guy, sees the receiver start running downfield, disengages, catches up to and passes the receiver and decleats the guy barreling down on the receiver. It was a masterpiece.

 

This is a mid round target guy who slips because he's not GREAT at anything... but that's the kind of guy you want in the later rounds. A guy who you know will play and make a difference for your team. 

 

I like him, too. Not as much as you do... for sure. But I'd love for him to be on this team. Especially if he can be had in the 4th/5th which may be possible. 

[DWinzit]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As for players right now projected at 16, Mayer, C Gonzlaez I'd take maybe Broderick Jones, maybe Porter.  I haven't dived in yet on the first round WRs because i am assuming they won't take one.

 

But by and large I'd love to trade down.  There aren't too many guys I covet at 16, Washington included.  But if they can trade down into the later first, it opens things up for me on a bunch of players.

 

The irony is Rivera's desire to win now makes me think Washington is a dark horse pick they might really consider if they can trade down.  If he is sworn to running a Titans style offense which is about running the ball -- Washington is a unique weapon on that front who can hit the ground running, pun intended.

 

Part of the reason why I like touting Brayden Willis is he's a poor man's version of Washington purely as to 2nd level blocks. They are both unique in that they motor down the field and pancake guys to spring big runs.  That's not the typical TE. 

 

Gong back to Washington, if you leave him on an island for example like SF did in the playoff game against Reddick, Washington as a pass blocker is no joke, he's actually have a good fighting chance.  Yeah I think considering this division, Washington would help Ron win now.

 

 

 

 

That Willis clip was great! He is the kind of player I like, H-back who has redeeming qualities in the blocking game. Will keep my eye on him as the 4th round closes

Keep selling him

 

I also am evidently higher on Broderick Jones than a number of posters. I feel like he would be a nice fit on the right side

[KDawg]

Just now, DWinzit said:

That Willis clip was great! He is the kind of player I like, H-back who has redeeming qualities in the blocking game. Will keep my eye on him as the 4th round closes

Keep selling him

 

I also am evidently higher on Broderick Jones than a number of posters. I feel like he would be a nice fit on the right side

 

I think a lot of the OT prospects are all very similar.

 

Broderick, Dawand, Wright are all prospects with flaws but many strengths and can all probably play day one.

 

Bergeron is steady and reliable but probably doesn't have the same ceiling.

 

Blake Freeland has many qualities you want but may be too tall and can get out leveraged.

 

Jaelyn Duncan is a complete wild card draft and pray guy.

 

Paris Johnson is the highest average floor/ceiling guy (and best OL prospect imo)

 

Skoronski is high floor, low ceiling. Don't love him. I think I'd feel much better about him as a guard.

 

That's the biggest issue I'm noticing with this OT class... there isn't much to differentiate any of them. They have different styles and strengths/weaknesses but their strengths and weaknesses seem to balance out and make the prospects all very similar. It comes down to personality/work ethic at that point and we aren't going to be great at that judgement unless we hear direct reports from folks who know them. 

[DWinzit]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I think a lot of the OT prospects are all very similar.

 

Broderick, Dawand, Wright are all prospects with flaws but many strengths and can all probably play day one.

 

Bergeron is steady and reliable but probably doesn't have the same ceiling.

 

Blake Freeland has many qualities you want but may be too tall and can get out leveraged.

 

Jaelyn Duncan is a complete wild card draft and pray guy.

 

Paris Johnson is the highest average floor/ceiling guy (and best OL prospect imo)

 

Skoronski is high floor, low ceiling. Don't love him. I think I'd feel much better about him as a guard.

 

That's the biggest issue I'm noticing with this OT class... there isn't much to differentiate any of them. They have different styles and strengths/weaknesses but their strengths and weaknesses seem to balance out and make the prospects all very similar. It comes down to personality/work ethic at that point and we aren't going to be great at that judgement unless we hear direct reports from folks who know them. 

It is a interesting class for sure. I am still most interested in Paris and Broderick with quite a few of them falling a little behind. The 2-3 rounds are very intriguing especially for DB and OL that have capabilities of starting right away. 

[Koolblue13]

I think Willis, Herbig and Haener are the three guys I'd like most on day 3 so far.

 

That mock is kind of Wack. I'd need to be sold on Simpson more than Sanders at 16 also.

[Warhead36]

The more I look at it/think about it the more I see a really bad draft class. I don't see the elite difference making types like I saw from 2020-2021 and I don't see the depth I saw in 2022. And that's gonna make trading down hard because there won't be anyone worth trading up for(unlike last year for example when guys like Jordan Davis, Kyle Hamilton, and Chris Olave were available at our pick). 

 

We're gonna end up reaching for an OT that ends up being league average-ish. 

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The more I look at it/think about it the more I see a really bad draft class. I don't see the elite difference making types like I saw from 2020-2021 and I don't see the depth I saw in 2022. And that's gonna make trading down hard because there won't be anyone worth trading up for(unlike last year for example when guys like Jordan Davis, Kyle Hamilton, and Chris Olave were available at our pick). 

 

We're gonna end up reaching for an OT that ends up being league average-ish. 

Almost makes it worth reaching for someone like Schmitz a good idea.

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The more I look at it/think about it the more I see a really bad draft class. I don't see the elite difference making types like I saw from 2020-2021 and I don't see the depth I saw in 2022. And that's gonna make trading down hard because there won't be anyone worth trading up for(unlike last year for example when guys like Jordan Davis, Kyle Hamilton, and Chris Olave were available at our pick). 

 

We're gonna end up reaching for an OT that ends up being league average-ish. 

 

It's not a really bad draft class. It's a really deep class with middle rung guys... except DB. 

[Wyndorf25]

19 hours ago, Going Commando said:

Would we feel good about this for a class?

 

Rd 1 - Dawand Jones

Rd 2 - Cody Mauch

Rd 3 comp - Julius Brents

Rd 4 - Jay Ward

Rd 5 - Nick Herbig/Sam LaPorta

Rd 6 - Ivan Pace

Rd 6 comp - Olu Oluwatimi

Rd 7 - Jake Haener

Mauch, LaPorta and Pace are three of my mid-round crushes...

Edited February 9, 2023 by Wyndorf25

[Wyndorf25]

18 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 I haven't thought much about Bijan. And I haven't watched him in months so I'd need to refresh.

 

His PFF numbers are sick.  And while some here would hate us picking him, the irony is I bet some of the same people I would bet hate seeing him with The Eagles or Dallas.

 

Seems like mock drafters believe the Eagles have their eyes on him.  Imagine that roster with an elite RB in the mix?

 

 

Please stop with that nonsense. You're ruining my morning. lol

[mhd24]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

Doesn’t matter who draft analysts like. It matters who the teams like. 
 

Having said that I think Carolina is looking QB or small trade back if no QB is there. If Bijan is there at their trade back I can see them going that direction. 
 

Atlanta is going to look at QB first. But Myles Murphy is a guy that could be on their radar. Thing is… I think Murphy is the best Edge in this class and off the board earlier. Maybe even to Arizona or Chicago. 
 

As for us, Branch is a stud. Getting him would be absolutely tremendous for this franchise… if they use him correctly. He is a safety/slot guy and not a corner. If we take him as a corner we’re in a lot of trouble. If the class breaks this way trade is best case scenario, though. Having said that there is a Jones left at tackle (I don’t know which, you just used last names in that mock). Wright is there. Am I seeing it right that every single wide receiver is there? I know this franchise doesn’t go BPA but Jordan Addison is on the board, along with all the other receivers… that’s a trade up destination if we don’t go that route. But the BPA is probably Addison there.

 

With a Jones, all the receivers, other tackles, Torrence, and a plethora of corner prospects + all the ILBs on the board there are reasons for teams to move up. 

Make me believe in Drew Sanders as the best linebacker. His film doesn’t do it for me as the best, though he is talented. Sell me on him.

 

 

Yeah, that is Broderick Jones I was referring to going to the Jets.  I'll post full names from now on.  I don't see any elite WRs that will be top 15 picks.  Kind of reminds of the Judy-Lamb-Jeffersob year where the WRs didn't go until Ruggs went in the teens.

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

Yeah, that is Broderick Jones I was referring to going to the Jets.  I'll post full names from now on.  I don't see any elite WRs that will be top 15 picks.  Kind of reminds of the Judy-Lamb-Jeffersob year where the WRs didn't go until Ruggs went in the teens.

Be interesting to see if there is a run on WR, DB or OL early. Would make things get exciting.