2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Chump Bailey]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am with Paulsen and Ledyard about Steen is a bit underrated.  I recall that was my impression on my first watch but I have to rewatch him.

 

Steen was the first potential sleeper OL that caught my eye and agree he is being slept on.

 

I think the following OL are being underrated as well:

Warren McClendon, Georgia

Jordan McFadden, Clemson

Wanya Morris, Oklahoma

 

I especially think Baylor LT Connor Galvin has sneaky sleeper value too.

[Going Commando]

Man, I just don't know about this OL class.  This is a bad year to need multiple players from the draft because the class is pretty flawed and generally unimpressive.  Skoronski being potentially the best OL is an indictment of the class to me.  Guys that are as limited as him should be no higher than a 20s or 30s pick in a normal year, but they're talking top ten for him?  Same for Torrence but in the mid teens.  Guards with no range and slow feet shouldn't been teens picks.  Tackles with serious concerns about their weight shouldn't be teens picks.  But we're in a spot where our only safe options for finding day one starters on the OL are to basically spend 16 on one of those guys.

 

It's enough to make me want to say **** it and punt on OL in the first and break tendency and get one of these beast corners instead.

[KDawg]

21 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Man, I just don't know about this OL class.  This is a bad year to need multiple players from the draft because the class is pretty flawed and generally unimpressive.  Skoronski being potentially the best OL is an indictment of the class to me.  Guys that are as limited as him should be no higher than a 20s or 30s pick in a normal year, but they're talking top ten for him?  Same for Torrence but in the mid teens.  Guards with no range and slow feet shouldn't been teens picks.  Tackles with serious concerns about their weight shouldn't be teens picks.  But we're in a spot where our only safe options for finding day one starters on the OL are to basically spend 16 on one of those guys.

 

It's enough to make me want to say **** it and punt on OL in the first and break tendency and get one of these beast corners instead.

Trading back is a very viable alternative that will also give us options at CB and LB with extra picks in a range where a lot of these guys really fit better.

[Skinsinparadise]

26 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Man, I just don't know about this OL class.  This is a bad year to need multiple players from the draft because the class is pretty flawed and generally unimpressive.  Skoronski being potentially the best OL is an indictment of the class to me.  Guys that are as limited as him should be no higher than a 20s or 30s pick in a normal year, but they're talking top ten for him?  Same for Torrence but in the mid teens.  Guards with no range and slow feet shouldn't been teens picks.  Tackles with serious concerns about their weight shouldn't be teens picks.  But we're in a spot where our only safe options for finding day one starters on the OL are to basically spend 16 on one of those guys.

 

It's enough to make me want to say **** it and punt on OL in the first and break tendency and get one of these beast corners instead.

 

At O line I prefer to bet on upside players.   I trust Masko can being out their best.

 

It's part of the reason why I'd be on board with Broderick Jones even though he's a bit raw.  Everything being equal, I prefer the Eagles style O lineman, dudes who are athletes.   Maybe someone like Tippman as an example.  Dawand Jones in a weird way fits the freaks theme in that he's so massive -- get him to lose 20 pounds and he might be a bit quicker, etc 

 

On the O line class, I am with Logan Paulsen and it seems like the bulk of media draftniks too -- which is that its a bad draft as far as top level O line talent but good one as far as depth B level players or at least average on that count as for depth. 

 

I don't love any of these O line guys at 16.  If I am forced to pick at 16, I'd take Mayer.  Yeah the more I digest the more I think he will be there at that spot.  I think Witherspoon is gone.  But I'd take Gonzalez if he's there, maybe Porter. 

 

But I'd love to trade down.  To me these O lineman in a typical draft are 2nd-3rd rounders.  So I'd rather take them in that range. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Trading back is a very viable alternative that will also give us options at CB and LB with extra picks in a range where a lot of these guys really fit better.

 

I don't think I've ever wanted to trade back more than this draft.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Zim489]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

Man, I just don't know about this OL class.  This is a bad year to need multiple players from the draft because the class is pretty flawed and generally unimpressive.  Skoronski being potentially the best OL is an indictment of the class to me.  Guys that are as limited as him should be no higher than a 20s or 30s pick in a normal year, but they're talking top ten for him?  Same for Torrence but in the mid teens.  Guards with no range and slow feet shouldn't been teens picks.  Tackles with serious concerns about their weight shouldn't be teens picks.  But we're in a spot where our only safe options for finding day one starters on the OL are to basically spend 16 on one of those guys.

 

It's enough to make me want to say **** it and punt on OL in the first and break tendency and get one of these beast corners instead.

I feel that way about the majority of the class. It feels like a mehh overall class. I dont hate it but I far from love it. There is some great depth in the 20-50s picks but beyond that I am finding it hard to find players I love above or below

 

Now I am feeling very "punt on the season" with the new crew coming in within a year regardless so that might be seeping into watching guys. 

[Going Commando]

I think I've finally made up my mind about Skoronski, and its that the length issue is just too persistent with him in the cut ups.  I thought it was going to mostly be a problem with him on run blocks but it shows up in pass pro too.  I looked it up and the average NFL edge rusher's arm length is 33.53 inches according to mockdraftable: https://www.mockdraftable.com/positions?position=EDGE

 

I picture in my mind a hypothetical match up between him and T.J. Watt or Myles Garrett or Khalil Mack and I am not feeling good at all about that.  He is going to get long-armed to death, and frankly, he's not good enough to jump guys like that and try draw first blood in the contact like maybe Darnell Wright could.  And then others have noticed and pointed out that he's got limited power to just sink his hips and anchor down on top of the length issue.  That's too many physical limitations for me to feel good about him playing tackle at the next level.  I think he projects as a zone scheme guard.

 

Right now the Ohio State guys are the only OTs I feel OK about as first rounders.  I might be able to be talked into Broderick Jones as a high upside project player, but I don't feel great about him and I don't think he'd be close to the BPA at 16.

 

I definitely don't love this option either, but if we can't trade down from 16, I'd rather make a BPA pick in the first and just target a flier like Jaelyn Duncan in the fourth round.

[Zim489]

I forget the number but OT arm length at below the 33" arm length is somehwere around 80-90% bust rate. If you can see it on film youre absolutely going to be see it on the field in the pros. You draft LTs high up in the first round to leave him on an island against that one elite pass rusher. If he cant do that you cant draft him high.

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

It's part of the reason why I'd be on board with Broderick Jones even though he's a bit raw.  Everything being equal, I prefer the Eagles style O lineman, dudes who are athletes.   Maybe someone like Tippman as an example.  Dawand Jones in a weird way fits the freaks theme in that he's so massive -- get him to lose 20 pounds and he might be a bit quicker, etc 

 

I'm going to go back to B Jones because I'm searching for some kind of OL pick I can feel good about in the first round.  I could be OK with Skoronski as a guard prospect provided we commit to running a zone heavy scheme moving forward, as I do think he'd be a good rookie starter at guard.  But not if we're drafting him to play tackle, and I suspect he's going to get drafted ahead of our pick anyway.

 

Basically I'm left with Dawand Jones as the only high upside OT option in the class for us that is likely to be available when we pick at 16.  I agree that his weight and conditioning are serious concerns, but he's the only ultra high upside physical freak of this OL class to me.  I see two major swing for the fences type draft choices for OLs this year: Jaelyn Duncan in the mid-rounds, or Jones at 16.  So those would be the swings I would take personally.  Actually, I'd strongly consider hedging my bets and taking both in the same class.  If Matsko can get into the head of Duncan and unlock his game, then I think he could end up being the best Pro LT from this class.  But the swings in his level of focus and play are so drastic, and his lost reps are so bad that he makes me really nervous.  Guys who are that inconsistent don't tend to become locked-in hyper focused studs later in their careers.  I'd be scared ****less about him lining up against Kayvon Thibedeaux or Micah Parsons on any important snap.

 

I'd feel OK with D Jones.  Him and Cosmi on the right side feels like a potentially dominant pairing.  No matter what lines up in front of him, D Jones is always going to be the biggest guy on the field.  If you can get a good center prospect like Schmitz at 47, then I could bet on that OL becoming good.  Rapid turnarounds in OL quality are definitely possible, KC was able to do it with a single draft.

 

As for the corners, I am in agreement with you.  I like Porter < Gonzalez < Witherspoon, and I like the value of all three of them at 16.  I also like this CB < Mayer at 16 too, and like you, he would be my pick if I was stuck at 16 and needed to go BPA.

 

But I'm also going to posit Bijan as a BPA candidate at 16 too.  The man is widely regarded as a top 5 talent in the class, and virtually everyone has him ranked ahead of Mayer.  I can easily see a scenario where he is the true BPA for us at 16.  Can we afford to turn our nose up at a true BPA and potential elite talent at our pick in the first?  I know we like Robinson, but he's never been a solo workhorse and Gibby might not make it to a second contract here.  I also know that you believe this team lacks star power, and Bijan is the type of star that could sell jerseys and tickets, drive fanhood, and get high up in NFL top 100 rankings.

 

I am by no means married to picking him if he's there at 16, but I think it's something we should consider.  Like you, I like Charbonnet and Gibbs too, although I think they have a chance to kill the 40 at the combine and play their way into the back end of a first round that isn't loaded in quality.

[Warhead36]

Some of these T prospects are just so raw. I don't wanna take a guy at 16 that's gonna be a 2-3 year project. OL need to be instant contributors.

[Going Commando]

Would we feel good about this for a class?

 

Rd 1 - Dawand Jones

Rd 2 - Cody Mauch

Rd 3 comp - Julius Brents

Rd 4 - Jay Ward

Rd 5 - Nick Herbig/Sam LaPorta

Rd 6 - Ivan Pace

Rd 6 comp - Olu Oluwatimi

Rd 7 - Jake Haener

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, Zim489 said:

I forget the number but OT arm length at below the 33" arm length is somehwere around 80-90% bust rate. If you can see it on film youre absolutely going to be see it on the field in the pros. You draft LTs high up in the first round to leave him on an island against that one elite pass rusher. If he cant do that you cant draft him high.

 

It's probably not 100% because some of them start playing well after moving inside to Guard, and people wrongly include HoFer Joe Thomas in the sub-33" length group. There was a measurement issue Joe's talked about, he's had it re-measured again and his arms come in somewhere around 33.5 or 33.75 I can't remember.

 

For those wondering about Sam Cosmi, and why many want him kicked inside. His arm length is short, it's right around 33 inches. They tried him at OT, but he needs to be a little too technically precise with those arms. He should be a Guard. Short arms are not forgiving. Morgan Moses could not move like Cosmi, but his arms being 35 and 3/8ths meant he had breathing room for error.

[Skinsinparadise]

32 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Would we feel good about this for a class?

 

Rd 1 - Dawand Jones

Rd 2 - Cody Mauch

Rd 3 comp - Julius Brents

Rd 4 - Jay Ward

Rd 5 - Nick Herbig/Sam LaPorta

Rd 6 - Ivan Pace

Rd 6 comp - Olu Oluwatimi

Rd 7 - Jake Haener

 

I'd love it but got doubts that some of them would be available in said rounds.

 

Dawand might be fascinating at the combine.  I don't expect like a big man Jordan Davis type of performance but even if lets say he exceeds expectations some, he might raise his draft stock.

 

The irony is both spots that this team is supposedly obsessed with -- O line and CB -- the combine is bigger for those spots than most.   So it should be really interesting.

 

Masko is good at working with young talent.  And Rivera's coaching stuff is typically good at developing young corners.  My point is they might be looking at the higher ahtletic upside players.

 

I just started thinking about this which is wondering how to match up to our division as to the O line.  Dallas is insane off the edge.  Eagles are loaded throughout the line.  The Giants have DTs that come close to ours and have decent edge players. 

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

59 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I'm going to go back to B Jones because I'm searching for some kind of OL pick I can feel good about in the first round.  I could be OK with Skoronski as a guard prospect provided we commit to running a zone heavy scheme moving forward, as I do think he'd be a good rookie starter at guard.  But not if we're drafting him to play tackle, and I suspect he's going to get drafted ahead of our pick anyway.

 

Basically I'm left with Dawand Jones as the only high upside OT option in the class for us that is likely to be available when we pick at 16.  I agree that his weight and conditioning are serious concerns, but he's the only ultra high upside physical freak of this OL class to me.  I see two major swing for the fences type draft choices for OLs this year: Jaelyn Duncan in the mid-rounds, or Jones at 16.  So those would be the swings I would take personally.  Actually, I'd strongly consider hedging my bets and taking both in the same class.  If Matsko can get into the head of Duncan and unlock his game, then I think he could end up being the best Pro LT from this class.  But the swings in his level of focus and play are so drastic, and his lost reps are so bad that he makes me really nervous.  Guys who are that inconsistent don't tend to become locked-in hyper focused studs later in their careers.  I'd be scared ****less about him lining up against Kayvon Thibedeaux or Micah Parsons on any important snap.

 

I'd feel OK with D Jones.  Him and Cosmi on the right side feels like a potentially dominant pairing.  No matter what lines up in front of him, D Jones is always going to be the biggest guy on the field.  If you can get a good center prospect like Schmitz at 47, then I could bet on that OL becoming good.  Rapid turnarounds in OL quality are definitely possible, KC was able to do it with a single draft.

 

As for the corners, I am in agreement with you.  I like Porter < Gonzalez < Witherspoon, and I like the value of all three of them at 16.  I also like this CB < Mayer at 16 too, and like you, he would be my pick if I was stuck at 16 and needed to go BPA.

 

But I'm also going to posit Bijan as a BPA candidate at 16 too.  The man is widely regarded as a top 5 talent in the class, and virtually everyone has him ranked ahead of Mayer.  I can easily see a scenario where he is the true BPA for us at 16.  Can we afford to turn our nose up at a true BPA and potential elite talent at our pick in the first?  I know we like Robinson, but he's never been a solo workhorse and Gibby might not make it to a second contract here.  I also know that you believe this team lacks star power, and Bijan is the type of star that could sell jerseys and tickets, drive fanhood, and get high up in NFL top 100 rankings.

 

I am by no means married to picking him if he's there at 16, but I think it's something we should consider.  Like you, I like Charbonnet and Gibbs too, although I think they have a chance to kill the 40 at the combine and play their way into the back end of a first round that isn't loaded in quality.

 

Jaelyn Duncan in the 3rd is a good gamble. He'd sit behind Leno while the team figures out if they can fix his consistency. But the 2nd round has too many Day 1 impact guys we need.

 

We did the rare thing of splitting snaps 50/50 between Cosmi and Lucas at RT for multiple games. Why not draft Jones and give him a series off every quarter? We rotate DL constantly, why not rotate an unbelievable physical monster at RT at times? Most star WR's only play 70-90% of snaps depending on game plan. Best TE of all time in Gronk wasn't playing every snap. Why not rotate an OL spot? (I fully get not rotating Center, but the other spots?) It's not like teams aren't forced to swap games mid-game when injuries happen either.

 

80% of RT snaps going to Dawand Jones doesn't seem like a bad use of a draft pick.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

I'm going to go back to B Jones because I'm searching for some kind of OL pick I can feel good about in the first round.  I could be OK with Skoronski as a guard prospect provided we commit to running a zone heavy scheme moving forward, as I do think he'd be a good rookie starter at guard.  But not if we're drafting him to play tackle, and I suspect he's going to get drafted ahead of our pick anyway.

 

Basically I'm left with Dawand Jones as the only high upside OT option in the class for us that is likely to be available when we pick at 16.  I agree that his weight and conditioning are serious concerns, but he's the only ultra high upside physical freak of this OL class to me.  I see two major swing for the fences type draft choices for OLs this year: Jaelyn Duncan in the mid-rounds, or Jones at 16.  So those would be the swings I would take personally.  Actually, I'd strongly consider hedging my bets and taking both in the same class.  If Matsko can get into the head of Duncan and unlock his game, then I think he could end up being the best Pro LT from this class.  But the swings in his level of focus and play are so drastic, and his lost reps are so bad that he makes me really nervous.  Guys who are that inconsistent don't tend to become locked-in hyper focused studs later in their careers.  I'd be scared ****less about him lining up against Kayvon Thibedeaux or Micah Parsons on any important snap.

 

I'd feel OK with D Jones.  Him and Cosmi on the right side feels like a potentially dominant pairing.  No matter what lines up in front of him, D Jones is always going to be the biggest guy on the field.  If you can get a good center prospect like Schmitz at 47, then I could bet on that OL becoming good.  Rapid turnarounds in OL quality are definitely possible, KC was able to do it with a single draft.

 

As for the corners, I am in agreement with you.  I like Porter < Gonzalez < Witherspoon, and I like the value of all three of them at 16.  I also like this CB < Mayer at 16 too, and like you, he would be my pick if I was stuck at 16 and needed to go BPA.

 

But I'm also going to posit Bijan as a BPA candidate at 16 too.  The man is widely regarded as a top 5 talent in the class, and virtually everyone has him ranked ahead of Mayer.  I can easily see a scenario where he is the true BPA for us at 16.  Can we afford to turn our nose up at a true BPA and potential elite talent at our pick in the first?  I know we like Robinson, but he's never been a solo workhorse and Gibby might not make it to a second contract here.  I also know that you believe this team lacks star power, and Bijan is the type of star that could sell jerseys and tickets, drive fanhood, and get high up in NFL top 100 rankings.

 

I am by no means married to picking him if he's there at 16, but I think it's something we should consider.  Like you, I like Charbonnet and Gibbs too, although I think they have a chance to kill the 40 at the combine and play their way into the back end of a first round that isn't loaded in quality.

 

Just in general I am a BPA and my top desire is elite players so I am willing to take arrows from anyone to defend taking any player at any position. I am not rigid about valuing certain positions or drafting to need -- to me that stuff is what I use to tip the balance if players are close to equal instead of dictating my choices. 

 

 I haven't thought much about Bijan. And I haven't watched him in months so I'd need to refresh.

 

His PFF numbers are sick.  And while some here would hate us picking him, the irony is I bet some of the same people I would bet hate seeing him with The Eagles or Dallas.

 

Seems like mock drafters believe the Eagles have their eyes on him.  Imagine that roster with an elite RB in the mix?

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Chump Bailey]

I've not done any deep dive into the TE class but two Day 3 prospects that may emerge are:

 

Travis Vokolek, Nebraska

Brevyn-Spann Ford, Minnesota

[mhd24]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Just in general I am a BPA and my top desire is elite players so I am willing to take arrows from anyone to defend taking any player at any position. I am not rigid about valuing certain positions or drafting to need -- to me that stuff is what I use to tip the balance if players are close to equal instead of dictating my choices. 

 

 I haven't thought much about Bijan. And I haven't watched him in months so I'd need to refresh.

 

His PFF numbers are sick.  And while some here would hate us picking him, the irony is I bet some of the same people I would bet hate seeing him with The Eagles or Dallas.

 

Seems like mock drafters believe the Eagles have their eyes on him.  Imagine that roster with an elite RB in the mix?

 

 

 

I actually am thinking Atlanta takes him.  They are a run first team and Smith had a prime Henry with him in Tennessee.  At some point you say screw the position and take BPA.  He fits their offense to a T.

[Rolo Tomasie]

8 hours ago, Going Commando said:

Darnell Wright has three major issues which keep me from being comfortable taking him at 16.

1 - noticeable lack of flexibility in lower half.  I thought his knees were fine because of how fast he looks, but now I'm seeing a lack of knee bend and comfort sliding in pass pro in his early season cut ups.  Given the fact he wears two big braces, I think there is a chance something comes out in his medical that isn't good.

2 - vertical sets are crap.  He gets zero depth on his kick step and this dovetails with his flexibility issue.  That's why he gets lit up by guys who counter back outside with explosiveness.  And I noticed he was the only tackle who just refused to vertical set at the SB practices.  Most he could do was a 45 set, and I think he might have a problem going backwards.  If he isn't good at vertical setting then he's going to struggle with NFL edge speed on wide rushers period, which is the very reason why we want to kick Cosmi inside to RG.

3 - the one that didn't make sense to me until Always a Commander pointed out he has tiny hands--block sustain.  I think he's the odd prospect who has really good punch strength and really fast hands, but also really poor grip strength.  For a dude who shows advanced hand fighting technique and who stuns a lot of rushers with his first punch, his hands are super easy to clear. He's always trying to snatch dudes and dump them off balance because I think it's how he copes with a lack of mirror speed and grip strength to stay velcroed on to the block.  He gives up pressure to guys who figure out how to weather his punch and have some hand technique of their own:

 

 

Contrast that to Peter Skoronski, who doesn't have Darnell's length, but can mirror like a crazy man, and those big mitts of his never get cleared once he latches on.

 

There is another, lesser issue with Wright too, in that I don't think he has any range as a move blocker.  I noticed TN just didn't use him that way at all, basically just limiting him to seals and having the RG always do the pulling.  They ran shockingly little outside zone.  I noticed he kind of struggled a bit in the practices when they ran outside zone, kind of overran the play and couldn't work back to the fit.  This kind of athletic limitation isn't a deal breaker, but it's definitely a bummer when you're talking about spending a first round pick on a tackle prospect.

 

I don't think Wright is a safe enough bet to be value at 16.  There is too much bust factor with him for my comfort level despite the fact he does have a super blue chip pedigree, a ton of starts, and some intriguing film and technique.  I think there is a chance he ends up at guard in the NFL, and if you're looking at guards at 16, then you're better off doing a slight reach for Torrence IMO.  I like the value of Dawand Jones at 16 a lot better than Wright.

Agree with you on wright. Feel like his agressiveness in the 1 on 1s instead of dropping back was almost like he was trying to hide something. 

[mhd24]

4 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

I'm going to go back to B Jones because I'm searching for some kind of OL pick I can feel good about in the first round.  I could be OK with Skoronski as a guard prospect provided we commit to running a zone heavy scheme moving forward, as I do think he'd be a good rookie starter at guard.  But not if we're drafting him to play tackle, and I suspect he's going to get drafted ahead of our pick anyway.

 

Basically I'm left with Dawand Jones as the only high upside OT option in the class for us that is likely to be available when we pick at 16.  I agree that his weight and conditioning are serious concerns, but he's the only ultra high upside physical freak of this OL class to me.  I see two major swing for the fences type draft choices for OLs this year: Jaelyn Duncan in the mid-rounds, or Jones at 16.  So those would be the swings I would take personally.  Actually, I'd strongly consider hedging my bets and taking both in the same class.  If Matsko can get into the head of Duncan and unlock his game, then I think he could end up being the best Pro LT from this class.  But the swings in his level of focus and play are so drastic, and his lost reps are so bad that he makes me really nervous.  Guys who are that inconsistent don't tend to become locked-in hyper focused studs later in their careers.  I'd be scared ****less about him lining up against Kayvon Thibedeaux or Micah Parsons on any important snap.

 

I'd feel OK with D Jones.  Him and Cosmi on the right side feels like a potentially dominant pairing.  No matter what lines up in front of him, D Jones is always going to be the biggest guy on the field.  If you can get a good center prospect like Schmitz at 47, then I could bet on that OL becoming good.  Rapid turnarounds in OL quality are definitely possible, KC was able to do it with a single draft.

 

As for the corners, I am in agreement with you.  I like Porter < Gonzalez < Witherspoon, and I like the value of all three of them at 16.  I also like this CB < Mayer at 16 too, and like you, he would be my pick if I was stuck at 16 and needed to go BPA.

 

But I'm also going to posit Bijan as a BPA candidate at 16 too.  The man is widely regarded as a top 5 talent in the class, and virtually everyone has him ranked ahead of Mayer.  I can easily see a scenario where he is the true BPA for us at 16.  Can we afford to turn our nose up at a true BPA and potential elite talent at our pick in the first?  I know we like Robinson, but he's never been a solo workhorse and Gibby might not make it to a second contract here.  I also know that you believe this team lacks star power, and Bijan is the type of star that could sell jerseys and tickets, drive fanhood, and get high up in NFL top 100 rankings.

 

I am by no means married to picking him if he's there at 16, but I think it's something we should consider.  Like you, I like Charbonnet and Gibbs too, although I think they have a chance to kill the 40 at the combine and play their way into the back end of a first round that isn't loaded in quality.

 

 

I think they'll take CB over O-line if one of the top 3 OL are not there.  If the top 3 CBs (as well as the top 3 OL) are gone, I think they try like heck to trade down.  Right now, I have as a top 16 mock (no trades) as being:

 

1). Chicago-Carter

2). Hou-Young

3). Az-Anderson

4). Ind-Stroud

5). Sea-Wilson

6). Det-Witherspoon (They almost took Sauce last year)

7).  LV-Skoronski

8.  Atl-Bijon

9). Car-Levis

10). Phi-Gonzalez

11). Tennessee-Johnson

12). Hou-Murphy

13). Jets-Jones

14). NE-Porter

15). GB-Mayer

16). Wash-Branch

 

Kind of a nightmare situation for us, but I went with Branch as a MR. versatility type.  I'd try like heck to trade down however.  Branch feels BPA here.

[RWJ]

4 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

16). Wash-Branch

 

Kind of a nightmare situation for us, but I went with Branch as a MR. versatility type.  I'd try like heck to trade down however.  Branch feels BPA here.

Me too and I hope we find a partner like last year to do it.  

[Going Commando]

41 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

Kind of a nightmare situation for us, but I went with Branch as a MR. versatility type.  I'd try like heck to trade down however.  Branch feels BPA here.

 

Mock looks good and realistic except that I still think Atlanta would favor Myles Murphy over Bijan in that situation.  But I get your reasoning for why they could go Bijan and I do think it's on the table.  The other thing that wouldn't shock me is if they go Levis there.  They like Desmond Ridder but it's kind of like how we like Sam Howell.  They aren't 100% in on him.  There's been a lot of local chatter of them going after Lamar Jackson, so it feels like they're shopping for higher upside at the QB position.

 

You think Frank Reich in Carolina is Levis's floor?  That feels like it might be accurate.  I don't think he wants to be in QB Hell again in his new job.  But if Levis is gone before 8, do you think they'd pick Bijan?  Because after them, I'm having a hard time seeing a landing spot for Bijan between them and our pick.  Maybe New England was say F it and pick him, but that doesn't feel like how they operate.  Do you think Reich would pick Anthony Richardson if Levis is gone?

Also wanted to say, that if the draft broke like you predict and Branch is the clear cut BPA, then I hope we either draft him or draft Dawand Jones in that situation.  Go BPA or swing for the fences on the highest upside OL prospect possible.

[mhd24]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

Mock looks good and realistic except that I still think Atlanta would favor Myles Murphy over Bijan in that situation.  But I get your reasoning for why they could go Bijan and I do think it's on the table.  The other thing that wouldn't shock me is if they go Levis there.  They like Desmond Ridder but it's kind of like how we like Sam Howell.  They aren't 100% in on him.  There's been a lot of local chatter of them going after Lamar Jackson, so it feels like they're shopping for higher upside at the QB position.

 

You think Frank Reich in Carolina is Levis's floor?  That feels like it might be accurate.  I don't think he wants to be in QB Hell again in his new job.  But if Levis is gone before 8, do you think they'd pick Bijan?  Because after them, I'm having a hard time seeing a landing spot for Bijan between them and our pick.  Maybe New England was say F it and pick him, but that doesn't feel like how they operate.  Do you think Reich would pick Anthony Richardson if Levis is gone?

Also wanted to say, that if the draft broke like you predict and Branch is the clear cut BPA, then I hope we either draft him or draft Dawand Jones in that situation.  Go BPA or swing for the fences on the highest upside OL prospect possible.

 

Thanks for the feedback as always Going Commando.

 

Reich and their owner (Tepper) are probably super tired of the stopgaps.  I think they take Levis for sure if he's there at 9.  If Levis is gone, I actually think Bijon makes a ton of sense there.  Reich already has experience with a super RB in Taylor.  He repeats it with Bijon.  I don't think they take Richardson.  Too much of a wildcard for them.  But, who knows?

 

Atlanta is in a weird situation.  Maybe they are scared of the Clemson DL after the Beasley whiff.  They need DL (and defense in general), but they finally have cap space this year.  I can see them loading up on Defensive FAs and going BPA at 8.  Smith took Ridder for a reason.  I certainly could see them taking Levis however.  

 

If Bijon is regarded as such an elite talent, some team is going to take him regardless of his position.  In a draft that lacks elite players (in terms of skill guys), he stands out big time.  BB could easily take him.  GB could take him at 15 and trade Jones (to lessen the cap issues they have).  

 

If the draft broke that way, I'm trading down as much as possible.  I don't see any elite guys left frankly.  JSN isn't as highly regarded by the draft analysts as you have.  Maybe Van Ness blows up the combine and cements his selection after the high praise from guys like Kiper & DJ.  Frankly, trading down a bunch and taking someone like Drew Sanders wouldn't be the worst idea in the world.  All of these RT types seem like classic 2nd rounders to me.  You need to take elite talents at 16.  Realistically, Porter/Gonzo (Witherspoon will be long gone), Mayer, and Bijon (unlikely) seem to be the most likely to be there.  If Jones was there, I'd probably take him over anyone considering he's got the elite traits as a LT.

[The Rook]

On the topic of trading down, I like to try to identify a possible asset some other team would covet, which team that may be AND does that team have the right picks for the trade.

 

The three CB's are proper trade bait, but I think the ideal bait would be Bijan and the partner could be the Buffalo Bills for their 1st and 2nd round picks (#27 and #59) at a minimum.

 

Interested in anyone else's "prognostication" on trading down.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[Koolblue13]

Is there a case for Sanders at 16? While I'm sure that's a bit high for a LBer and he's not better than the top 3 CBs, if the draft broke that way and the Oline talent wasn't BPA, could anyone see us going LBer again? He's exactly the type of LBer we'd need to help our D pop. Our Reddick/Parsons and he's only starting to see his potential off ball.

[KDawg]

9 hours ago, mhd24 said:

 

Thanks for the feedback as always Going Commando.

 

Reich and their owner (Tepper) are probably super tired of the stopgaps.  I think they take Levis for sure if he's there at 9.  If Levis is gone, I actually think Bijon makes a ton of sense there.  Reich already has experience with a super RB in Taylor.  He repeats it with Bijon.  I don't think they take Richardson.  Too much of a wildcard for them.  But, who knows?

 

Atlanta is in a weird situation.  Maybe they are scared of the Clemson DL after the Beasley whiff.  They need DL (and defense in general), but they finally have cap space this year.  I can see them loading up on Defensive FAs and going BPA at 8.  Smith took Ridder for a reason.  I certainly could see them taking Levis however.  

 

If Bijon is regarded as such an elite talent, some team is going to take him regardless of his position.  In a draft that lacks elite players (in terms of skill guys), he stands out big time.  BB could easily take him.  GB could take him at 15 and trade Jones (to lessen the cap issues they have).  

 

If the draft broke that way, I'm trading down as much as possible.  I don't see any elite guys left frankly.  JSN isn't as highly regarded by the draft analysts as you have.  Maybe Van Ness blows up the combine and cements his selection after the high praise from guys like Kiper & DJ.  Frankly, trading down a bunch and taking someone like Drew Sanders wouldn't be the worst idea in the world.  All of these RT types seem like classic 2nd rounders to me.  You need to take elite talents at 16.  Realistically, Porter/Gonzo (Witherspoon will be long gone), Mayer, and Bijon (unlikely) seem to be the most likely to be there.  If Jones was there, I'd probably take him over anyone considering he's got the elite traits as a LT.

Doesn’t matter who draft analysts like. It matters who the teams like. 
 

Having said that I think Carolina is looking QB or small trade back if no QB is there. If Bijan is there at their trade back I can see them going that direction. 
 

Atlanta is going to look at QB first. But Myles Murphy is a guy that could be on their radar. Thing is… I think Murphy is the best Edge in this class and off the board earlier. Maybe even to Arizona or Chicago. 
 

As for us, Branch is a stud. Getting him would be absolutely tremendous for this franchise… if they use him correctly. He is a safety/slot guy and not a corner. If we take him as a corner we’re in a lot of trouble. If the class breaks this way trade is best case scenario, though. Having said that there is a Jones left at tackle (I don’t know which, you just used last names in that mock). Wright is there. Am I seeing it right that every single wide receiver is there? I know this franchise doesn’t go BPA but Jordan Addison is on the board, along with all the other receivers… that’s a trade up destination if we don’t go that route. But the BPA is probably Addison there.

 

With a Jones, all the receivers, other tackles, Torrence, and a plethora of corner prospects + all the ILBs on the board there are reasons for teams to move up. 

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Is there a case for Sanders at 16? While I'm sure that's a bit high for a LBer and he's not better than the top 3 CBs, if the draft broke that way and the Oline talent wasn't BPA, could anyone see us going LBer again? He's exactly the type of LBer we'd need to help our D pop. Our Reddick/Parsons and he's only starting to see his potential off ball.

Make me believe in Drew Sanders as the best linebacker. His film doesn’t do it for me as the best, though he is talented. Sell me on him.

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Doesn’t matter who draft analysts like. It matters who the teams like. 
 

Having said that I think Carolina is looking QB or small trade back if no QB is there. If Bijan is there at their trade back I can see them going that direction. 
 

Atlanta is going to look at QB first. But Myles Murphy is a guy that could be on their radar. Thing is… I think Murphy is the best Edge in this class and off the board earlier. Maybe even to Arizona or Chicago. 
 

As for us, Branch is a stud. Getting him would be absolutely tremendous for this franchise… if they use him correctly. He is a safety/slot guy and not a corner. If we take him as a corner we’re in a lot of trouble. If the class breaks this way trade is best case scenario, though. Having said that there is a Jones left at tackle (I don’t know which, you just used last names in that mock). Wright is there. Am I seeing it right that every single wide receiver is there? I know this franchise doesn’t go BPA but Jordan Addison is on the board, along with all the other receivers… that’s a trade up destination if we don’t go that route. But the BPA is probably Addison there.

 

With a Jones, all the receivers, other tackles, Torrence, and a plethora of corner prospects + all the ILBs on the board there are reasons for teams to move up. 

Make me believe in Drew Sanders as the best linebacker. His film doesn’t do it for me as the best, though he is talented. Sell me on him.

That's what I'm asking. If he can be sold as the pick. I don't know. There are a few players later with some pass rush chops like Pace and Herbig. 

 

I think Sanders has a chance to be a special pass rusher. He's fast and super twitchy, has good size and is very good at getting off blocks.

 

Last year was his first at off ball I think and he wasn't bad. Looks like a new era MIKE/ILB like Davis.

 

I don't think LBer is on the table and it'll be OL or CB in the first though. He'll most likely be a cowboy.