2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

Yeah. I watched him too. He's a jack of all trades, master of none. Not a great receiver, but good. Not a true in-line Y but can play in-line fairly well, but can also play H and FB. Not fast but not slow (at least watching him on film... there are times where he flies by everyone and times he gets hawked). He is all hustle, though. My favorite play of his is when he blocks a guy, sees the receiver start running downfield, disengages, catches up to and passes the receiver and decleats the guy barreling down on the receiver. It was a masterpiece.

 

This is a mid round target guy who slips because he's not GREAT at anything... but that's the kind of guy you want in the later rounds. A guy who you know will play and make a difference for your team. 

 

I like him, too. Not as much as you do... for sure. But I'd love for him to be on this team. Especially if he can be had in the 4th/5th which may be possible. 

 

Agree about the mid to later rounds.

 

I get your overall point, I would say our disagreement is about his blocking.  I think his 2nd level blocking in particular is distinctly above average versus fitting the jack fo all trades argument.  You cite his blocking if i recall more to hustle.  Maybe so, but heck for me blocking especially for an HB is a lot about attitude and hustle.  I want a dude who is willing to run 30 yards down the field and make dive blocks to bring big plays.  You don't see that too often.

 

He also has it seems like insane level intangibles and leadership skills that remind me some of the narrative about Terry McLaurin before that draft and it was part of the soup as to why I likewise pushed Terry -- and I had some major pushback about Terry.

 

Blocking 2 dudes and then finishing it with a diving block 30 yards down the field ala the play below is insane.

 

 

https://www.oudaily.com/sports/he-is-oklahoma-football-brayden-willis-example-leadership-a-constant-in-ous-up-and-down/article_97fc7c9e-5601-11ed-8d22-5382e4b46986.html

 

“Brayden’s been great, as good of a leader as we have on the team, incredibly vocal,” Venables said. “He's an alpha, both on the field and off the field. He cares a great deal and literally takes that just caring a little more. If everybody cared a little more, coaches, players, you could really tap into our full potential. But here's what it looks like: when it comes to toughness, effort, accountability, discipline — he stands for everything that you want.”

While embodying everything Venables hopes his program will become, Willis also does anything and everything the Sooners need from him to win.

 

 

In the season opener against UTEP, he blocked four different defenders on the same play to ensure Gavin Freeman’s 46-yard touchdown run. Catches of 78 and 26 yards against TCU and Kansas, respectively, saw him tiptoe down the sidelines with intricate balance. He even manned the backfield in the Wildcat formation against Texas, hearkening back to his days as a quarterback at James Martin High School in Arlington.

“Weight Room Willie,” “Tightrope Willie” and “Wildcat Willie” are just a few of the nicknames OU fans on Twitter have generated while watching the 6-foot-4, 239-pound bruiser’s multifaceted play this season.

“He's a very selfless player,” Venables said. “One, players feed off of that. Two, that brings out the best in everybody. He’s a great example for everybody else to follow. The players look to him and respect him and they follow his lead. So to see him show up and do it consistently, that's a really hard thing.

 

 

“That's what great players do. Great players are few and far between. And he's a great one for lots of reasons. He's talented, he's really smart, but man, he’s tough and his effort is uncommon.”

When offensive coordinator Jeff Lebby arrived at OU, he quickly realized Willis could be the backbone of the Sooners’ offense and locker room after meeting with him, his family and his former high school coach. Willis ultimately decided to stay another season in Norman and work with Lebby to better develop his game.

“He put great trust in us, and so incredibly appreciative for that, and it's paying off for him,” Lebby said. “Again, any opportunity I get to brag on B-Will, I'm going to. He is Oklahoma football. It's who the kid is to the core, and it's what we want to be about, and so just proud of him and his consistency.”

Willis hadn’t been the leader of OU’s tight ends room previously with his good friend and “Podcast on the Prairie” host Jeremiah Hall, now graduated, and Austin Stogner, now at South Carolina in the mix. Injuries also limited him in the past — he played only five games during the 2020 season.

 

 

However, it became evident Lebby could position a now-healthy Willis for more production when he caught two touchdown passes in the Sooners’ season opener. To date, he has recorded 20 catches for 312 yards and five touchdowns with an average of 15.6 yards per catch, which ranks first in the Big 12 and fifth nationally among tight ends.

“I think Coach is letting me play fast and free and allowing me to just do some of the things that I’ve been comfortable with over the years — running free, running routes, and then also blocking,” Willis said. “So I think Coach does a great job of putting guys — not only me, but other guys — in position to win, and I think he’s done a great job with that over the year.”

Willis considers himself “a humble guy” and blurs out social media chatter and other distractions during the season to lock in on leading his teammates and playing his best. Because of his attitude and its manifestation in games, those who observe Willis’ strain daily aren’t the only ones on notice.

“Every pro scout that comes through here, they love Brayden Willis,” Venables said. “And to me, he's a guy that can change a locker room. He has ‘that.’ Not everybody has ‘that’ in them, but he does. It's a very natural gift, and one that he uses every single day.”

Edited February 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree about the mid to later rounds.

 

I get your overall point, I would say our disagreement is about his blocking.  I think his 2nd level blocking in particular is distinctly above average versus fitting the jack fo all trades argument.  You cite his blocking if i recall more to hustle.  Maybe so, but heck for me blocking especially for an HB is a lot about attitude and hustle.  I want a dude who is willing to run 30 yards down the field and make dive blocks to bring big plays.  You don't see that too often.

 

He also has it seems like insane level intangibles and leadership skills that remind me some of the narrative about Terry McLaurin before that draft and it was part of the soup as to why I likewise pushed Terry -- and I had some pushback about Terry.

 

Blocking 2 dudes and then finishing it with a diving block 30 yards down the field ala the play below is insane.

 

 

https://www.oudaily.com/sports/he-is-oklahoma-football-brayden-willis-example-leadership-a-constant-in-ous-up-and-down/article_97fc7c9e-5601-11ed-8d22-5382e4b46986.html

 

“Brayden’s been great, as good of a leader as we have on the team, incredibly vocal,” Venables said. “He's an alpha, both on the field and off the field. He cares a great deal and literally takes that just caring a little more. If everybody cared a little more, coaches, players, you could really tap into our full potential. But here's what it looks like: when it comes to toughness, effort, accountability, discipline — he stands for everything that you want.”

While embodying everything Venables hopes his program will become, Willis also does anything and everything the Sooners need from him to win.

 

 

In the season opener against UTEP, he blocked four different defenders on the same play to ensure Gavin Freeman’s 46-yard touchdown run. Catches of 78 and 26 yards against TCU and Kansas, respectively, saw him tiptoe down the sidelines with intricate balance. He even manned the backfield in the Wildcat formation against Texas, hearkening back to his days as a quarterback at James Martin High School in Arlington.

“Weight Room Willie,” “Tightrope Willie” and “Wildcat Willie” are just a few of the nicknames OU fans on Twitter have generated while watching the 6-foot-4, 239-pound bruiser’s multifaceted play this season.

“He's a very selfless player,” Venables said. “One, players feed off of that. Two, that brings out the best in everybody. He’s a great example for everybody else to follow. The players look to him and respect him and they follow his lead. So to see him show up and do it consistently, that's a really hard thing.

 

 

“That's what great players do. Great players are few and far between. And he's a great one for lots of reasons. He's talented, he's really smart, but man, he’s tough and his effort is uncommon.”

When offensive coordinator Jeff Lebby arrived at OU, he quickly realized Willis could be the backbone of the Sooners’ offense and locker room after meeting with him, his family and his former high school coach. Willis ultimately decided to stay another season in Norman and work with Lebby to better develop his game.

“He put great trust in us, and so incredibly appreciative for that, and it's paying off for him,” Lebby said. “Again, any opportunity I get to brag on B-Will, I'm going to. He is Oklahoma football. It's who the kid is to the core, and it's what we want to be about, and so just proud of him and his consistency.”

Willis hadn’t been the leader of OU’s tight ends room previously with his good friend and “Podcast on the Prairie” host Jeremiah Hall, now graduated, and Austin Stogner, now at South Carolina in the mix. Injuries also limited him in the past — he played only five games during the 2020 season.

 

 

However, it became evident Lebby could position a now-healthy Willis for more production when he caught two touchdown passes in the Sooners’ season opener. To date, he has recorded 20 catches for 312 yards and five touchdowns with an average of 15.6 yards per catch, which ranks first in the Big 12 and fifth nationally among tight ends.

“I think Coach is letting me play fast and free and allowing me to just do some of the things that I’ve been comfortable with over the years — running free, running routes, and then also blocking,” Willis said. “So I think Coach does a great job of putting guys — not only me, but other guys — in position to win, and I think he’s done a great job with that over the year.”

Willis considers himself “a humble guy” and blurs out social media chatter and other distractions during the season to lock in on leading his teammates and playing his best. Because of his attitude and its manifestation in games, those who observe Willis’ strain daily aren’t the only ones on notice.

“Every pro scout that comes through here, they love Brayden Willis,” Venables said. “And to me, he's a guy that can change a locker room. He has ‘that.’ Not everybody has ‘that’ in them, but he does. It's a very natural gift, and one that he uses every single day.”

That’s the literal play I referenced in my post.

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, KDawg said:

That’s the literal play I referenced in my post.

 

Yep.  It's just insane.  But he makes other highlight blocks down the field.  That specific one was like a Marvel Superhero version.  But its not an outlier, its how he plays.  He's a feisty pass blocker and run blocker.  And above average on both fronts IMO.   I am not on an island on this.  PFF rates him high on those fronts, got accolades at the Senior Bowl for it.  

 

He's not the freak that Darnell Washington is on that front.  But among the TES-HBs I've watched so far, he's the best I've seen on the 2nd level.

 

I bring up Terry McLaurin because I liked him a lot before that draft, spent probably more time defending that pick or for that matter pushing a player on the draft day thread before our third round pick came up than any player. 

 

And a big part of my push was I wasn't just sold on the player but his intangibles seem to be better than just good -- they seemed special.  A leader, workaholic, high character and was selfless as a player both on the field and off the field.

 

I like to read about some of the prospects I like.  some of their narratives jump out to me and some don't.   Brayden thus far might be the one that jumps out to me the most as far as intangibles and narratives on that front.  

 

 

 

NORMAN — Brayden Willis is a thinker.

Scratch that. By his own admission, Oklahoma’s pass-catching, run-blocking, touchdown-throwing fifth-year tight end is an overthinker.

He plans things out in his head. He attacks challenges methodically and with a quiet focus. His mind, most often, stays fixed on the bigger picture.

One recent afternoon, his mother, Rhonda Reddic, recalled the temporary frustration her son exuded when the family switched school districts near their home in Arlington, Texas, just before he entered high school.

By then, Willis had already mapped out the next four years in his head, detail for detail.

 

“Brayden is a very analytical type of guy,” Reddic explained. “We really thought he was going to be an engineer.”

 

...“Brayden is a captain’s captain. And for those that have served in that role, I think that’s the ultimate compliment. He raised the standard of what a captain is at Martin High School.”

The same elements that drew him followers in high school turned Willis into a leader in Norman not long after his arrival in 2018, too.

When teammates and coaches alike speak about Willis’ relentless work ethic, they rave about the veteran at the front of pack during team sprints — the tight end who benches 405 pounds with ease one moment, encouraging a teammate on another bench the next — and the leader who seldom misses an optional holiday workout session.

Stories of Willis’ tug-of-war triumphs during winter workouts are tales of legend in their own right.

“You need a guy like B-Will,” said quarterback Dillon Gabriel. “Someone who’s just a hard worker.”

“There’s a reason why I call this kid ‘Weight Room Willy,’” Hall said. “He has the lungs of a horse. He can run way more 100s than anybody on that team. He’s strong as an ox. Honestly, I just have to give God his credit: He made a specimen in Brayden Willis.

“And as a football player, it’s a lot easier to follow the guy that can talk while running sprints.”

 

...He’s become prominent in OU’s player-led meetings. Venables considers him a pivotal voice on the Sooners’ senior council. Multiple OU teammates referred to Willis as the middle man between the players and Venables’ first-year coaching staff.

In his final season, Willis has become that vocal leader.

 

Just ask redshirt junior cornerback Woodi Washington.

“After the Kansas State loss in the locker room, Brayden kind of brought the team up before coach Venables got in there and was just like ‘This season is not over. We still got our goals ahead of us.’ For him to just come out and say that right after a big loss. That’s shows his character right there.”

 

Or junior left tackle Anton Harrison.

“The Texas game at halftime. We’re down. We’re down a lot. He’s the loudest person in the room. ‘We’re still in this. It’s not over. Keep your heads up. We’re good.’ He was like that every day at practice (during the three-game losing streak earlier this season). He sees somebody loafing, he’s going to be on their tail to make them better.”

Or freshman running back Jovantae Barnes.

 

“Every single day I see B-Will step up even in a locker room. Even if it’s just the littlest thing. Like if there’s piece of paper on the ground, pick it up, make sure you pick it up. Make sure you keep your home clean because this is the only place the players get to come in and bond and laugh with each other until it’s really serious time with the coaches.”

Or try Venables.

 

“I think that he’s like all great leaders he’s selfless, willing to sacrifice, great toughness,” the Sooners’ first-year coach said. “He’s a model of consistency. Great humility. He loves the work. Loves the grind. Loves his teammates.

 

“He’s willing to say and do the uncomfortable and the things that are not popular.

 

https://tulsaworld.com/sports/college/ou/a-captains-captain-sooners-te-brayden-willis-the-right-leader-at-the-right-time-for/article_6a8b0886-6c89-11ed-a04f-af027729e8c4.html

 

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Trapasso has been doing this for a long time.  I don't agree the best in awhile but I think its definitely average as far as depth.  More so at center versus guard.

 

As much as i like Michael-Schmitz.  You also can get dudes like Tippman, Stomberg among others later in the draft hence i don't think Michael-Schmitz goes in the first.

 

 

 

 

 

[Chump Bailey]

Super impressed with Oluwatimi. He was terrific in the one-on-one drills. Some lucky team is likely getting a bargain and gem. 

[DWinzit]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Trapasso has been doing this for a long time.  I don't agree the best in awhile but I think its definitely average as far as depth.  More so at center versus guard.

 

As much as i like Michael-Schmitz.  You also can get dudes like Tippman, Stomberg among others later in the draft hence i don't think Michael-Schmitz goes in the first.

 

 

 

 

 

Oluwatimi may have more experience than any of the other C prospects and he played against top competition regularly. Another in this category is Wypler who I believe you and spoke of in the past. I could easily see one of these guys being picked up in lets say round 4 to pair with a Larsen or Roullier. The issue being they may not be able to play anything but C

[skinsfan66]

On 2/6/2023 at 6:37 PM, Chump Bailey said:

 

I like him as a prospect but he's older and suffered an ACL injury. He might be a nice value pickup for us and good overall influence on the locker room too but likely will need to redshirt his first year. 3-4th rounds I'd say definitely worth considering. 

 

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

Oluwatimi may have more experience than any of the other C prospects and he played against top competition regularly. Another in this category is Wypler who I believe you and spoke of in the past. I could easily see one of these guys being picked up in lets say round 4 to pair with a Larsen or Roullier. The issue being they may not be able to play anything but C

Teaming with Roullier and Larsen is not going to get it done, time to cut bait with Roullier he has underperformed his contract. Protecting the QB has been an afterthought, Maybe the biggest need on the team along with guard, RT, LB, TE?  

[Warhead36]

I'd be good with CB in round 1 and IOL in round 2.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just watched a quick game of Anderson.  IMO "meh".  Not strong -- either as to anchoing in pass protect or run blocking.  Feels like just a guy.

[Skinsinparadise]

Power of smarts in a center

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/02/09/eagles-offensive-line-super-bowl/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=wp_sports

His love for the line stems, in part, from the challenge of getting five players to operate as one cohesive unit. He calls it the “five-wheel drive.” All the parts have to work in sync, and if one is off, it all falls apart.

“All five of the guys starting know how important it is that the guy next to them does their job so that the whole unit can be successful,” Kelce said. “It’s very unique in that regard. A run play, you need all five guys really doing their jobs if you want it to be successful. And protection, it only takes one guy getting beat for a pressure to happen or a sack. So you realize how important each and every one of you are to the success of the group and team.”

Kelce’s success is evident. A surefire Hall of Famer, he’s only the third center since the 1970 AFL-NFL merger to earn five first-team all-pro honors. Stoutland said Kelce is the smartest player he has ever coached.

 

“And I’ve coached some really, really smart players at that position throughout my career,” he added. “He conceptualizes everything so well. He’s got this numbers thing going on in his head. Like, ‘You don’t have enough people over here to cover the receiver, so therefore, they’re probably doing something over here.’ That kind of stuff. He has tremendous instincts.”

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

13 hours ago, skinsfan66 said:

 

Teaming with Roullier and Larsen is not going to get it done, time to cut bait with Roullier he has underperformed his contract. Protecting the QB has been an afterthought, Maybe the biggest need on the team along with guard, RT, LB, TE?  

Correct, we def need a lot of OL help along with what you mentioned and DB's. Yes Roullier and Larson is not the best option. We may not be in a spot to grab an immediate stud starter to replace that team. That's why I was offering the idea 2 of one of them returning along with a very competent mid-round draft pick that has the capability of becoming a possible long term starter. I could easily see it being Larsen and cutting Roullier. Or neither is brought back and maybe they think Wes and a rookie.

[Skinsinparadise]

Ony problem with Tippman is if they are looking for shorter interior O lineman as Keim suggestee they might, Tippman wouldn't fit with that.  But he also bringa position flex.  He's played guard and I believe even some tackle

 

 

https://lacrossetribune.com/tippman-confident-at-line/article_e3cdb03d-0f61-592c-96af-2d349764e01f.html

 

Joe Tippmann feels different as he approaches the line of scrimmage these days.

The redshirt sophomore center for the University of Wisconsin is typically the first player at the line. He used to be hesitant in reading the opposing defense and making calls that determine how the line will block a play. He wanted to make perfect decisions, but that led to overthinking.

Now, 11 weeks into his career as the Badgers’ starter, he’s confident in what he sees in front of him. His steps forward this season have been crucial to the entire offensive line’s improvement for the No. 18 Badgers (8-3, 6-2), who are looking to secure their third Big Ten Conference West Division title in five years when they play at 3 p.m. Saturday at Minnesota (7-4, 5-3).

 

“There’s a confidence with that as a group when your center’s making the right calls,” senior left tackle Tyler Beach said. “’Tipp’ works night and day to make sure that all of us are on the right thing. That’s one thing, he cares about all of us. … One wrong point, one wrong call can be the difference between a lot of different stuff.”

 

Tippmann’s play is being noticed outside of the UW program as well. After missing most of last season with a shoulder injury and then winning the starting role in training camp, PFF grades Tippmann as the third-best center in the country with an offensive grade of 86.9. His run blocking grade of 86.2 is tied for fifth among centers.

Over the past four games, the Badgers’ offense has averaged 247.8 rushing yards and 188 passing yards. In the first seven games of the season, those metrics were 218.9 on the ground and 146 in the air. Tippmann said it took time to acclimate to his role, but he isn’t second-guessing his decisions at the line anymore.

 

 

‘Just being able to confidently make the calls and confidently be consistent for my other guys.” Tippmann said of his improvement this season. “Cutting it loose in the run, just being able to tear it off and get that push that I need and we need as an offense with me and my guards.

 

“I like taking on a leadership role up there, just being able to know that my calls are going to affect what we do. And I think having that weight on my shoulders is something that I like and that I’m confident in.

Tippmann and UW’s offensive line have allowed one sacks of redshirt sophomore quarterback Graham Mertz in the past four games. Mertz and Tippmann live together and both said they feel more in sync with reading defenses presnap, helping both understand where pressures could be coming from and how the UW line will block against them.

 

 

Mertz has completed 64.2% of his passes over the past four games.

“I think he’s playing really smart football right now,” Mertz said. “He’s seeing the defense really well. I think the biggest thing is I can kind of play with him and we’re seeing the same thing … he’s been violent the whole year, but that extra edge of just being a little bit more smart and a little more attentive to what the defense is doing, he’s doing a great job seeing it.”

 

Tippmann’s strength comes through on the field, particularly in run blocking, as the Badgers have leaned on his ability to create lanes for the ground attack. UW offensive line coach Joe Rudolph has also been able to take advantage of his athleticism, using the 6-foot-6, 320-pounder on pull blocks around the edge to give tailbacks an imposing lead blocker. The 53-yard touchdown run Braelon Allen had in the fourth quarter of Saturday’s game was a prime example of Tippmann pulling and acting as a lead blocker.

 

“Just as a whole offensive line, you love when you can have a great run game and you can displace people off the ball,” Tippmann said. “It’s a thing that all O-linemen love, and you get to impose your will on another team. And I think it really will, over the course of a game, it’ll really break down a defense … I think it really damages their confidence and their ability to get after the ball.”

[Skinsinparadise]

Luke Wypler was 'non-stop'

Wypler credits his mom for his brains. He was close to a 4.0 student in high school, is a two-time OSU Scholar-Athlete and was Academic All-Big Ten last year.

Desimone is a longtime nurse, has a Ph.D. and has taught college courses.

“She’s the type of woman who worked Christmas, worked every holiday to always make sure that her patients were taken care of,” Wypler said. “My mom is just a giver. That’s the best way to describe her. She’s taught me some of the best lessons of my life.”

 

 

....Wypler was thrust into the starting job just days before last year’s opener at Minnesota when projected starter Harry Miller couldn’t play. He’s held it ever since.

“Luke is typical of a center,” Ohio State coach Ryan Day said. “He's Type A. He wants to get everything right. He takes a lot of pride in his work and works really hard. I see him in here getting extra work, watching extra film.

“That's what you want out of your center because he's the guy who's got to get everybody together. He does a very, very good job of that. You’ve got to be a good communicator. You’ve got to be able to process high levels of information. You’ve got to be able to make in-game adjustments, and he really feeds off of that.”

Quarterbacks and centers are often tight. Stroud and Wypler bonded from their shared experience as first-time starters last year and the mutual respect they have for each other’s affinity for film study.

 

 

...My whole fear in life is I don’t want to look back and say, ‘What if?’ ” Wypler said. “I always try to go at everything full speed and never have any regrets.”

 

https://www.dispatch.com/in-depth/sports/college/football/2022/09/23/ohio-state-football-center-luke-wypler-lives-life-no-regrets/69498842007/

 

 

"I could just tell even though he was in that offensive line room at Michigan for less than a year, he had already emerged as somebody who everyone could lean on," Weisz said. "After the game, they always have a tailgate for players and their families, and one of the younger centers was going over film with Olu, asking him all these different questions about football, life, how he manages it all. I know how much they value Olu's experience, and they truly take his words very, very seriously, just because he's been through it all."

Without question, Oluwatimi has elevated the offensive line in Ann Arbor. Michigan ranks No. 6 in the nation in rushing offense, and Moore said his presence was "huge" for McCarthy because "you've got somebody in the middle that can help you and get you out of things if you're unsure."

 

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/35297568/triumph-tragedy-michigan-center-olu-oluwatimi-journey

[KDawg]

The center class is interesting. I don't necessarily LOVE any of them. But like the tackles I think there are a number of guys who are virtually on the same plane who are going to be decent pros.

 

Wypler, Tippman, Olu.

 

Of course Stromberg, who is criminally underrated around here.

 

And then the guys who are position versatile like Mauch and Patterson. I think they are both probably better guards but that versatility is key here.

 

I think there are clear differences between them but as a group they are all kind of lumped in and a lot will come down to interviews/combine. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

The center class is interesting. I don't necessarily LOVE any of them. But like the tackles I think there are a number of guys who are virtually on the same plane who are going to be decent pros.

 

Wypler, Tippman, Olu.

 

Of course Stromberg, who is criminally underrated around here.

 

And then the guys who are position versatile like Mauch and Patterson. I think they are both probably better guards but that versatility is key here.

 

I think there are clear differences between them but as a group they are all kind of lumped in and a lot will come down to interviews/combine. 

 

Stromberg not underrated by me.  He was one of the first people I went to town on well over a month ago as a mid rounder type I'd like.

 

I would have included him in the cerebral push but on that front none of the narratives stood out among the centers purely on that point compared to Michael-Schmitz, Tippman, Wypler, Oluwaimi.  A little bit on that point with him but nothing crazy -- could be because those others went to strong academic schools wheras Arkansas not so much.  Not saying Stromberg isn't as smart as the others but I just couldn't find a story that really grabbed me specific on that.

 

But otherwise Stromberg, seems to be a good dude, posted articles-video about him and his family in the past.  And really solid-good player IMO.  

Edited February 10, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

46 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Stromberg not underrated by me.  He was one of the first people I went to town on well over a month ago as a mid rounder type I'd like.

 

I would have included him in the cerebal push but on that front none of the narratives stood out among the centers purely on that point compared to Michael-Schmitz, Tippman, Wypler, Oluwaimi.  A little bit on that point with him but nothing crazy -- could be because those others went to strong academic schools wheras Arkansas not so much.  Not saying Stromberg isn't as smart as the others but I just couldn't find a story that really grabbed me specific on that.

 

But otherwise Stromberg, seems to be a good dude, posted articles-video about him and his family in the past.  And really solid-good player IMO.  

You’re the only other person here I’ve seen tout him. I think he’s the best center only prospect in my book right now.

[Going Commando]

Say he runs 4.8 at the combine.  What is the earliest that people here would pick Ivan Pace?

 

I think we all agree that his film is of a top 50 player in the class, and that he has the best instincts of any of the linebackers.  So what is the earliest we feel comfortable "reaching" on him in the event he measures small and slow?

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Say he runs 4.8 at the combine.  What is the earliest that people here would pick Ivan Pace?

 

I think we all agree that his film is of a top 50 player in the class, and that he has the best instincts of any of the linebackers.  So what is the earliest we feel comfortable "reaching" on him in the event he measures small and slow?

 

I am a bit partial because he was one of the first players I watched and touted early this year.  But I'll try to take the emotion out of it.

 

For me he needs to shine on speed-agility measures.

 

As I said Jon Ledyard took a lot of grief on twitter for trashing the Ryan Anderson pick.  His point was -- short arms, bad agility, bad speed -- that's too much for a dude to overcome in the NFL as a pass rusher especially in a 3-4.

 

Pace is small, short arms.  He looks to me more dynamic than Anderson and they do play different spots.  But yeah if he had pedestrain or worst speed and agility numbers in the combine, I hate to back off the player but I probably would.    Late rounder to me if he runs 4.8.  For me I'd want the low 4.7s.

 

London Fletcher was short and had short arms but he ran a 4.38.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

10 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Say he runs 4.8 at the combine.  What is the earliest that people here would pick Ivan Pace?

 

I think we all agree that his film is of a top 50 player in the class, and that he has the best instincts of any of the linebackers.  So what is the earliest we feel comfortable "reaching" on him in the event he measures small and slow?

I’d feel comfortable in the second round. His tape speaks for itself. Is it a gamble? Sure is. But I think we as a group of draft enthusiasts are too afraid of taking calculated risks on guys with film and too accepting of taking risks on guys with a lack of film but elite intangibles. 
 

In the NFL these kind of risks are much more impactful. People lose jobs and families are displaced when people miss. But at the same time, if you look at a player who produces on film vs. one who doesn’t I’d bet the hit rate is higher on the guy who has fill, but I admit that is pure conjecture and can be shown to be incorrect. 
 

If he interviews well and seems to have a good head on his shoulders and has accounts that verify he has a work ethic… I’d take him in the second and not bat an eye. 
 

Edited February 10, 2023 by KDawg

[Going Commando]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Late rounder to me if he runs 4.8.  For me I'd want the low 4.7s.

 

I think you're right that's where he'd likely go if he runs a 4.8.  I guess what I'm wondering is, do we feel like he's the kind of player where you say "damn the measurables, we think there is something special in him.  Let's take him in the third or fourth round to make sure we get him, even though everyone else has him in the fifth or sixth."

 

I don't want to draft any player before I have to pick him, because that's just wasting resources.  But some guys you just have to get on your roster and it's like oh well.  Nick Bolton was like that for KC I think.  Is Ivan Pace one of those guys?

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

You’re the only other person here I’ve seen tout him. I think he’s the best center only prospect in my book right now.

 

0 sacks, 0 pressures last year.  Really good obviously.  I don't get why so many draftiks for example have Broeker rated ahead of him.   

 

I think the Georgia game hurt him some from 2021, Jordan Davis and others seem to overpower him at times.  But in his defense that's obviously not an easy task.

 

But if he's in the 6th round ballpark as some project, I'd be on board.  Heck Rouillier was in the 6th. 

[Going Commando]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’d feel comfortable in the second round.

 

47?  Where is the point where you start getting antsy and feel like you've got to pull the trigger on him because you are afraid someone else is going to take him?

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Going Commando said:

 

47?  Where is the point where you start getting antsy and feel like you've got to pull the trigger on him because you are afraid someone else is going to take him?

 

We can't know value. No idea where other teams have him. NFL teams have a better idea, I'm sure. They have people employed to gather intelligence on each other... hence all the smoke screens. If we got word he'd be gone at 48 if we don't take him I'd pull the trigger. If we heard no one had him before, say, 155, I'd wait. 

 

I added to my above post to give more context. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by KDawg

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

We can't know value. No idea where other teams have him. NFL teams have a better idea, I'm sure. They have people employed to gather intelligence on each other... hence all the smoke screens. If we got word he'd be gone at 48 if we don't take him I'd pull the trigger. If we heard no one had him before, say, 155, I'd wait. 

 

I added to my above post to give more context. 

 

What's his floor for you personally then?  As in, no matter what I've heard from other FOs, I'm taking him if he's there at X pick.  Third round comp pick?  Fourth?