2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

Keim on Bram's show from Friday.

 

A.  Hard to predict them this year, there are multiple paths they can go in depending how the draft shakes out ahead of them.

 

B.  If he had to bet in the first he'd go offensive tackle, then CB.  He doesn't rule out edge.  

 

C.  Doubled down, they won't take Hooker in the first.  Maybe in the late 2nd if they add a pick or with their late third rounder if he's there.  they do like him but not at first.

 

D.  Mentioned their interest in DJ Turner when he talked about the depth at the CB spot

 

E.  Mentioned Darnell Wright -- could move him to guard if need be.  He didn't mention interest one way or another but he rarely brings up players randomly for no reason

 

F.  Didn't think they'd go TE in the first -- unless the board fell poorly for them at other spots, which Keim didn't think would happen.  He brings up Kincaid again.  And again he didn't mention interest one way or another but he rarely brings up players randomly for no reason let alone multiple times.  He thought TE has a shot in the 2nd-3rd round range

 

G.  There are some edge players they like in the the first round.  He flat out said they like Myles Murphy.  Thinks they are more likely to take an edge after the first but the first is possible.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

51 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Trade me outta the first completely if that's your second round. I'd be pissed if we drafted Ojulari in front of Campbell, Gibbs and Tippman. 

Yeah, real incredible grouping of talent!!!

 

These drafts drive my bonkers to look at lol

[Skinsinparadise]

seems like the draft media believes NFL teams are considering Avila in the late first.   I am OK with Avila but I am not taking him that early.

 

I like the value better for guard in the 3rd roundish range -- Zavala or Steen.  Or fishing in the 2nd, Mauch, Tippman.     Am guessing Bergeron is gone by 47 -- I like him at tackle or guard. 

 

 

 

Edited April 23, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[seantaylor=god]

I’m not sure if it was Logan Paulson, Keim, or Standig, but Deonte Banks, CB was mentioned as someone they like and could be a good scheme fit for what they like to do on defense as opposed to Porter. Keim flat out said they could go CB (and said it won’t be Porter). I think we pick Banks at 16 if he’s there.

Something to be aware of is that Pittsburgh picks right after us, has similar needs (OT and CB) and Mike Tomlin’s son played at UMD before transferring, so he may have some inside info on MD players.

 

I don’t think we can trade down and get Banks, he is the type of guy who will probably go higher than we think since his tools are so good. I actually wouldn’t be surprised if he leaps Witherspoon.

 

If we like PJJr at OT and he’s sliding out of the top 10, we may want to consider a slight trade up. The OTs may go quicker than expected since it’s a shallow class. 

 

[Cool Hwhip]

Anything can happen during draft time let's be honest. However, and even though we need help in other key areas also, we desparately need help in the secondary and I think we will take a corner in the first round. My choice is Porter, Jr but if he is gone I think one of Forbes or Brents will be there and I would be fine with either.

[seantaylor=god]

7 minutes ago, Cool Hwhip said:

My choice is Porter, Jr but if he is gone I think one of Forbes or Brents will be there and I would be fine with either.

Keim flat out said it won’t be Porter, I’m guessing it’s a scheme thing.

[RWJ]

54 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Keim on Bram's show from Friday.

 

A.  Hard to predict them this year, there are multiple paths they can go in depending how the draft shakes out ahead of them.

 

B.  If he had to bet in the first he'd go offensive tackle, then CB.  He doesn't rule out edge.  

 

C.  Doubled down, they won't take Hooker in the first.  Maybe in the late 2nd if they add a pick or with their late third rounder if he's there.  they do like him but not at first.

 

D.  Mentioned their interest in DJ Turner when he talked about the depth at the CB spot

 

E.  Mentioned Darnell Wright -- could move him to guard if need be.  He didn't mention interest one way or another but he rarely brings up players randomly for no reason

 

F.  Didn't think they'd go TE in the first -- unless the board fell poorly for them at other spots, which Keim didn't think would happen.  He brings up Kincaid again.  And again he didn't mention interest one way or another but he rarely brings up players randomly for no reason let alone multiple times.  He thought TE has a shot in the 2nd-3rd round range

 

G.  There are some edge players they like in the the first round.  He flat out said they like Myles Murphy.  Thinks they are more likely to take an edge after the first but the first is possible.

Really surprised Keim didn't mentioned a trade down.  

[Warhead36]

I was high on Porter jr and still am really but I've grown quite fond of Banks. I think he'd be a stud in our system under the tutelage of our coaches. But I'd still prefer OT assuming there's a worthy one available.

 

I could see Pittsburgh preferring Porter jr. due to the family name/connection. But they're also in DIRE need of OL help(honestly more so than us, their line has been complete booty the last few years).

[seantaylor=god]

7 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Really surprised Keim didn't mentioned a trade down.  

He did, he’s been saying it a lot that they want to but it’s not guaranteed.

[Gurgeh]

13 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Really surprised Keim didn't mentioned a trade down.  

 

As always it's going to depend on who's available at our spot that someone else needs, and it's not a high pick. And we aren't trading with three of the teams below us in the first round. Maybe if one of the teams at the bottom would jump up to get Bijan to compete now, and we offer better terms than the Steelers.

[Warhead36]

The only guy that would be worth trading up for that could realistically fall to us is Bijan.

[DWinzit]

I see no player worthy of us moving up from 16 for at this point

 

I do think there are a couple players they have identified they would select at 16. 

 

They seem sold on the idea of a trade down or two to accumulate day 2 and early day 3 picks.

 

I see the one variable being if they are involved in a player trade...maybe Chase or Sweat. Something like that goes down all bets are off.

 

There are players that other teams would probably like to move up to 16 for. There are numerous different possibilities depending on the way the draft plays out. It is going to be one of the most unpredictactible drafts in years 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

40 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Really surprised Keim didn't mentioned a trade down.  

 

I've mentioned here Keim continues to say podcast after podcast, they'd like to trade down.  I didn't this time.  But lol figured at this point it goes without saying. Standig has said the same, ditto Finlay.

 

So yeah that's why I don't think they end up with Wright or Banks or name that player expected to go in the mid first round range.

 

I said many weeks back when I watched Banks, I like him even over Porter, I am a fan.  And apparently this team is, too.  But I get the impression they will pass on him to trade down which IMO is the smart way to go.

 

As most (me included) here keep saying, this draft looks really good in that 2nd-3rd round range -- its a no brainer IMO to trade down. 

 

Keim has referenced multiple times if they get a late 2nd.  Wonder if that's speculation about trading with KC.  If I recall the trade value chart has a trade down to their pick -- yielding their late 2nd and late third. 

Edited April 23, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Trade me outta the first completely if that's your second round. I'd be pissed if we drafted Ojulari in front of Campbell, Gibbs and Tippman. 

 

I've been thinking Jack Campbell might be a dark horse pick for them at 47.  Campbell is my favorite LB in this draft by a mile and I'd love that pick as i know some others here would.  But he doesn't seem on their radar considering no meetings, etc.  But wonder if they are pulling a Jahan Dotson on this one where they purposely are showing no interest.

 

I know they aren't big on using LBs in this defense.  But Rivera said the previous off season that the LB spot in the main reason why the defense wasn't as good as his better Carolina defenses.   And the kicker is Luke Kuechly is training Campbell who Ron is supposedly still close with.   Ron wouldn't have to meet with Jack, he'd know plenty from Kuechly.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've been thinking Jack Campbell might be a dark horse pick for them at 47.  Campbell is my favorite LB in this draft by a mile and I'd love that pick as i know some others here would.

 

I know they aren't big on using LBs in this defense.  But Rivera said the previous off season that the LB spot in the main reason why the defense wasn't as good as his better Carolina defenses.   And the kicker is Luke Kuechly is training Campbell who Ron is supposedly still close with.   Ron wouldn't have to meet with Jack, he'd know plenty from Kuechly.

Yes! Yes! I did not realize how up you were on Campbell!

I have been saying for long time how he is my #1 and him in our D with another good CB/DB would be killer! 

He doesn't make it to 47 in my eyes

Edited April 23, 2023 by DWinzit

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've mentioned here Keim continues to say podcast after podcast, they'd like to trade down.  I didn't this time.  But lol figured at this point it goes without saying. Standig has said the same, ditto Finlay.

 

So yeah that's why I don't think they end up with Wright or Banks or name that player expected to go in the mid first round range.

 

I said many weeks back when I watched Banks, I like him even over Porter, I am a fan.  And apparently this team is, too.  But I get the impression they will pass on him to trade down which IMO is the smart way to go.

 

As most (me included) here keep saying, this draft looks really good in that 2nd-3rd round range -- its a no brainer IMO to trade down. 

 

Keim has referenced multiple times if they get a late 2nd.  Wonder if that's speculation about trading with KC.  If I recall the trade value chart has a trade down to their pick -- yeilding their late 2nd and late third. 

Sorry, SIP.  I just should know by now but with it close to being draft day and not seeing it in there it just caught me off guard.  It shouldn't have.  I can't see them doing business with the champs but if they did it would yield, (i.e., I will use draftek as it is like most of the 2023 draft value charts) via: 2023 NFL Trade Value Chart (drafttek.com)

 

Wash #16: 1000, KC #31:  600 diff of 400 pts.  So definitely KC's 2nd #63 valued at 276 and 3rd #95 valued at 120 which = 396 so we be giving up 4 points.  We need more IMO to let them move up 15 spots.  Buffalo intrigues me sitting at #27 at 680 pts.  If they wanted to deal, they could give up their 2nd #59 valued at 310 and 4th #130 valued at 42.   

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, seantaylor=god said:

Keim flat out said it won’t be Porter, I’m guessing it’s a scheme thing.

 

Did he?  I first thought that and then listened to it again at the time and it sounded like he was referencing the idea of ball skills and that wouldn't fit Porter.   But I don't recall him flat out saying the team isn't interested -- it felt more like him implying the point versus saying it flat out.  But when i have time I'll go back and relisten, maybe i am wrong.

 

 

1 hour ago, seantaylor=god said:

 

 

I don’t think we can trade down and get Banks, he is the type of guy who will probably go higher than we think since his tools are so good. I actually wouldn’t be surprised if he leaps Witherspoon.

 

If we like PJJr at OT and he’s sliding out of the top 10, we may want to consider a slight trade up. The OTs may go quicker than expected since it’s a shallow class. 

 

 

I share your enthusiasm for Banks.  He and DJ Turner are the corners I've pushed here the most.  But personally, I'd be stunned if he went ahead of Witherspoon who is IMO distinctly a better corner.     Seems like a hot rumor is Witherspoon going to the Lions at 6.

 

I suspect they pass on Banks at 16, trade down and on the off chance Banks is still there at whereever spot they trade down to -- he'd be on the table.  But who knows, will see. 

Edited April 23, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've been thinking Jack Campbell might be a dark horse pick for them at 47.  Campbell is my favorite LB in this draft by a mile and I'd love that pick as i know some others here would.  But he doesn't seem on their radar considering no meetings, etc.  But wonder if they are pulling a Jahan Dotson on this one where they purposely are showing no interest.

 

I know they aren't big on using LBs in this defense.  But Rivera said the previous off season that the LB spot in the main reason why the defense wasn't as good as his better Carolina defenses.   And the kicker is Luke Kuechly is training Campbell who Ron is supposedly still close with.   Ron wouldn't have to meet with Jack, he'd know plenty from Kuechly.

I'd hate to let LaPorta pass us by if he were there in the 2nd but I do like Campbell a lot.  If we were to select Campbell instead of LaPorta, I'd be thrilled!  I didn't know he was being trained up by Kuechly.  

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Yes! Yes! I did not realize how up you were on Campbell!

I have been saying for long time how he is my #1 and him in our D with another good CB/DB would be killer! 

He doesn't make it to 47 in my eyes

 

Yeah months back or whenever I did my write up on Jack Campbell i recall my first line "I love this player".   I posted the Kueckly training at the time.  So it was all on my radar in a big way.

 

I also took him in the board's mock draft.

 

I haven't gone back and talked about Campbell much because there isn't much to talk about from my stand point.  Nothing about this team poking around on him.  And no comparisons that seem relevant to me because he's the clear top LB IMO.  He's also stylistically different than the other LBs I like -- he's a stack and shed old school LB but with modern day athleticism. 

 

The other LBs I dig are different stylistically:  Pace and as a mid-late rounder type S. Dennis.  I like Simpson, Henley, too but not a big draft crush way.  But overall i am not big on this LB class.  Campbell IMO is head and shoulders above the rest.   

 

4 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I'd hate to let LaPorta pass us by if he were there in the 2nd but I do like Campbell a lot.  If we were to select Campbell instead of LaPorta, I'd be thrilled!  I didn't know he was being trained up by Kuechly.  

 

Both would be really good picks IMO

 

13 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Yes! Yes! I did not realize how up you were on Campbell!

I have been saying for long time how he is my #1 and him in our D with another good CB/DB would be killer! 

He doesn't make it to 47 in my eyes

 

I used to think he doesn't fall to 47 but I see him there in plenty of mocks.  Of course mocks don't mean reality.  So will see.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

26 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've been thinking Jack Campbell might be a dark horse pick for them at 47.  Campbell is my favorite LB in this draft by a mile and I'd love that pick as i know some others here would.  But he doesn't seem on their radar considering no meetings, etc.  But wonder if they are pulling a Jahan Dotson on this one where they purposely are showing no interest.

 

I know they aren't big on using LBs in this defense.  But Rivera said the previous off season that the LB spot in the main reason why the defense wasn't as good as his better Carolina defenses.   And the kicker is Luke Kuechly is training Campbell who Ron is supposedly still close with.   Ron wouldn't have to meet with Jack, he'd know plenty from Kuechly.

Campbell is the LBer I've been yelling from the mountain for every year, until this year, so it wouldn't surprise me if he was the pick 

 

I'm higher on Sanders, but I'd love Campbell. I'd still think we need a better pass rusher, but a late round specialist is fine. Campbell might be perfect to open up Davis to play free.

 

We're in 2 LBer sets over 75% of the time and I'll be disappointed if we don't add one in the first 4 rounds.

[DWinzit]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah months back or whenever I did my write up on Jack Campbell i recall my first line "I love this player".   I posted the Kueckly training at the time.  So it was all on my radar in a big way.

 

I also took him in the board's mock draft.

 

I haven't gone back and talked about Campbell much because there isn't much to talk about from my stand point.  Nothing about this team poking around on him.  And no comparisons that seem relevant to me because he's the clear top LB IMO.  He's also stylistically different than the other LBs I like -- he's a stack and shed old school LB but with modern day athleticism. 

 

The other LBs I dig are different stylistically:  Pace, as a mid-late rounder type S. Dennis.  I like Simpson, Henley, too but not a big draft crush way.  But overall i am not big on this LB class.  Campbell IMO is head and shoulders above the rest.   

It has been a number of years since I have had as big a draft crush on player like I have on Campbell. There is no player that has game anything like this guy.. I am not sure he makes it into the second round, definitely not to 47. He is the beast of this draft and is being undersold.

 

I agree with the other LBs you listed fit this team and would be targets after Campbell is gone. I have a few others and have added Dennis after your more recent postings, you sold me as him being an option.

 

Would love a world through trade downs where they could out with Campbell, Laporta and and OL starter....I could list numerous OL that would fall in the 2nd lets say that fit perfectly, mostly IOL.

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Campbell is the LBer I've been yelling from the mountain for every year, until this year, so it wouldn't surprise me if he was the pick 

 

I'm higher on Sanders, but I'd love Campbell. I'd still think we need a better pass rusher, but a late round specialist is fine. Campbell might be perfect to open up Davis to play free.

 

We're in 2 LBer sets over 75% of the time and I'll be disappointed if we don't add one in the first 4 rounds.

 

I am higher on Campbell.    i like Sanders, don't love him -- IMO he's a work in progress as a LB, raw.  Campbell is IMO a plug and play, old school LB.

 

When a SF reporter compared the SF defense to ours -- he said the main difference are the LBs between the 2 teams.  Campbell IMO is the perfect type of LB to close that gap.  Warner is a smaller LB versus Campbell but he's a beast in the box and elite against the run. 

 

With this D line, having someone like Campbell come charging downhill, it would help make other offenses one dimensional.   He's decent against the pass, too.  but IMO a beast against the run and can shed tackles unlike the typical modern day LB. 

 

All three division rivals like to use the run to set up the pass.  good luck running against this team with this front and Campbell behind them -- a stack and shed LB who is really good at diagnosing plays 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[mhd24]

My stab at the current top 16 (no trades):

1). Car-Young

2). Hou-Wilson

3). Az-Anderson

4). Ind-Levis

5). Sea-Carter

6). Det-Witherspoon

7). LV-Gonzalez

8.  Atl-Bijan

9). Chi-P. Johnson

10). Phi-Van Ness

11). Ten-Stroud

12). Hou-Richardson

13). NYJ-Wright

14). NE-B. Jones

15). GB-Kincaid

16). Was-Skoronski

[seantaylor=god]

44 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Did he?  I first thought that and then listened to it again at the time and it sounded like he was referencing the idea of ball skills and that wouldn't fit Porter.   But I don't recall him flat out saying the team isn't interested -- it felt more like him implying the point versus saying it flat out.  But when i have time I'll go back and relisten, maybe i am wrong.

Keim report, 4/20 at around 33 minutes. They are talking about generating take aways on defense, so you’re right that it may have been Keim playing into that scenario. But he has not been complementary of Porter and hasn’t really talked about him a lot at a pick at 16.
 

paraphrased- if Witherspoon is gone, you’re looking at the MD corner…

keim: “and it won’t be Joey Porter Jr.”

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, seantaylor=god said:

Keim report, 4/20 at around 33 minutes. They are talking about generating take aways on defense, so you’re right that it may have been Keim playing into that scenario. But he has not been complementary of Porter and hasn’t really talked about him a lot at a pick at 16.
 

paraphrased- if Witherspoon is gone, you’re looking at the MD corner…

keim: “and it won’t be Joey Porter Jr.”

 

Yeah that sounds about right from my recollection.  I listen to all of Keim's podcasts.  I haven't heard him yet overrule Porter and I've actually sort of wanted him to do it  -- its not that I don't like Porter but he's not one of my top wants in the first.  And I do prefer Banks.   But yeah some including Logan Paulsen don't like Porter's fit to this team.