2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[philibusters]

I think Herndon Hooker got a bit exposed.  I think because UGA get pressure pretty quick pressure with 4, they were able to disguise their coverage a lot more.   Part of what makes college QB different than NFL QB'ing is the spread offenses in college, spread out a defense and force them to show their hand.   You don't want to blitz a safety or LB who is way out of the box for example.  Georgia was able to disguise what they were doing some and Hooker was not all that impressive at processing the reads.

[Skinsinparadise]

14 hours ago, KDawg said:

Stroud was horrendous today. As was Hooker. I don’t know. This QB class isn’t what everyone everyone has thought it would be. Last year’s class is going to wind up looking good long term I think.

 

Agree, the QB might be deep as some say from the standpoint there might be a larger group of throw the dice type QBs than the typical year but its not looking top heavy.

 

I want to love Levis but can't fall for him.  I am not into Stroud.  Hooker's accuracy worries me.    Bryce Young is definitely my favorite in this group.

 

Daniels as a project looked intriguing yesterday, watched him a little last season too.  At a minimum the dude can run.

 

 

 

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

I will keep saying this -- As a Tennessee fan, stay Away from Hooker in the pros. Dude's been great in college, but he's nowhere near ready for the NFL.

[philibusters]

I am with Skinsinparadise.   The only QB I am confident in is Byrce Young.  Unlike SIP I like CJ Stroud, but my confidence level isn't super high.  He is my second favorite, but down a tier.  I get the upside on Levis, but again, my confidence level isn't super high with him.  I am not a Hooker fan.  Richardson is way too raw to be confident in.  I haven't seen much of Tanner McKee, so I don't have a take on him.

 

Next year people are talking a lot about Caleb Williams, but I think I may have Drake May as number 1 in that class.   Quinn Ewers is also pretty good.

 

That 2021 class looks like it may be a bit of a disappointing class.

[Going Commando]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Daniels as a project looked intriguing yesterday, watched him a little last season too.  At a minimum the dude can run.

 

I watched him as a true Freshman when he played with Eno Benjamin and Brandon Aiyuk.  He was good and has drawn some DeShaun Watson comparisons in his career, but my problem with him then is still there now.  If we want to ding Bryce Young for not having an NFL body, then it's definitely true with Daniels.  His weight listings have always been lies, that kid was like 155 pounds as a freshman and looks like he's maybe 180-ish now.  He is a beanpole, and I don't think he has the frame to add a ton of weight--very narrow shoulders, thin legs, thin arms and joints.  I think he's going to struggle to maintain a playing weight around ~195 pounds.  I wouldn't draft him early, and I wouldn't prefer him in any round over spending a first round pick on Bryce Young.

 

That said, I've never been on board with drafting another QB this draft even though there are quite a few prospects I think would be worthy.  We need to try and make it work with Wentz or Howell and not draft another QB into a likely lame duck situation.

[Going Commando]

On 11/6/2022 at 8:28 AM, philibusters said:

I think Herndon Hooker got a bit exposed.  I think because UGA get pressure pretty quick pressure with 4, they were able to disguise their coverage a lot more.   Part of what makes college QB different than NFL QB'ing is the spread offenses in college, spread out a defense and force them to show their hand.   You don't want to blitz a safety or LB who is way out of the box for example.  Georgia was able to disguise what they were doing some and Hooker was not all that impressive at processing the reads.

 

I think the crowd noise was a big factor.  TN doesn't huddle and they get back to the line absurdly quick.  They need to be able to make calls and adjustments from the LoS, and you could see the OLs were lost.  Several false starts, and then that can kind of snowball because it gets in your head as an OL after you false start.  You stop firing off the LoS.  I also think their offense got off track when Hyatt turned his ankle after he ran into the official.  That was kind of a weird and unfortunate play where the official instinctively shoved him as they were colliding, and the result of it was that Hyatt hurt his ankle.  That deep threat is what keeps the safeties so far back and basically gives Hooker an easy read whenever he sees him singled by a corner and no safeties around.

 

I also think Josh Huepel and Hooker tensed up in that game, and that UTs lack of big game experience showed, whereas Georgia has been through the wars.  This is how it is in the SEC.  People forget, but Bama had to take a couple of tries to unseat Florida and become the big dog in the conference.  Ditto for Georgia with Bama.  And now Tennessee is in that position with Georgia.  It takes some losing in big games to learn how to win them consistently.

 

Also I think it was absurd that UT got ranked over Georgia heading into that game.  This Georgia team is loaded and they are the undefeated defending national champs who are beating everyone they play by multiple touchdowns, and beat the best team in the Pac 12 by 50.  I cringed when I saw that ranking, Georgia did not need any extra motivation for that game.  I live in the area and everyone was ravenous for this match up and the cfp rankings served Tennessee up as meat for this program.

 

All that is to say I don't see any shame in losing that game for Hooker.  He has still been the best QB in the country this season, and I think he'll still win the Heisman and probably be QB1, unless Stroud or Young can absolutely distinguish themselves down the stretch here.  I like Levis, but he just hasn't played well enough this year to be a confident QB1.  We can cite Josh Allen as a comparison with him, but even Allen was QB3 in his class.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

[Zim489]

No first round guards 

[Warhead36]

15 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

No first round guards 

For real.

 

The only positions worth drafting in the 1st round are QB, WR, Edge, or CB. MAYBE LT if its a slam dunk franchise type guy.

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

For real.

 

The only positions worth drafting in the 1st round are QB, WR, Edge, or CB. MAYBE LT if its a slam dunk franchise type guy.

Depends on the draft and where you are picking in the first.

[Warhead36]

21 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Depends on the draft and where you are picking in the first.

I'm factoring in positional value and how expensive those positions can be in FA(and how rare the good ones even hit FA at those positions).

 

But of course if you can get a guaranteed Brian Urlacher or Troy Polamalu you take him.

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I'm factoring in positional value and how expensive those positions can be in FA(and how rare the good ones even hit FA at those positions).

 

But of course if you can get a guaranteed Brian Urlacher or Troy Polamalu you take him.

I get it, but it's more nuanced. End of the first is where you see safeties and linebackers, running backs start to sneak in. Guards in the later part of the draft too.

 

I agree position wise QB,LT,CB,DE are always going to run up front the closer to the draft you get and any player in the top 10 should be an elite prime skill position player.

[Zim489]

Right now im pretty locked into CB. Still have no idea how they are going to get a QB on this team. I dont want Ron picking it. 2024 will be the year but this roster is too good to get the top tier guys. They need their picks to actually get a chance at some elite talent. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

3 hours ago, Zim489 said:

Right now im pretty locked into CB. Still have no idea how they are going to get a QB on this team. I dont want Ron picking it. 2024 will be the year but this roster is too good to get the top tier guys. They need their picks to actually get a chance at some elite talent. 

 

CB looks stacked but i am not really locked into any spot.  BPA within reason. 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Tough to be a good team as one scout said with a bad O line.  i am not a big guard guy as for top 10.  But if I am picking in the 2nd half of the first and or early 2nd, its definitely in play with me and big time so.

 

Forgot who it was but one of the film geeks who study this team maybe it was Cooley who said the pass blocking isn't hot but neither is the run blocking and they miss Scherff's ability to block in space.

 

Last year, the two guards that got some hype Johnson, and Green have been mostly good.  We got jags on the interior O line here.  Ideally I'd love to draft a tackle and move Cosmi to guard but in my book O line is the code red position after QB. 

 

Regardless, I am a BPA guy.  I get drafting money positions and I am on board with that in theory.  But heck even guards now are getting big money.  We got a great D line -- win in the trenches unit but we don't have that on the O line. 

 

Look at the Giants transformation?  They draft Andrew Thomas who some say is the best LT now in the league and they double down with a first round pick again on a tackle this year -- and all of a sudden they are good.

 

For years the Giants have sucked and a theme of them sucking has been their wretched O line.  Now, this team has become the new NY Giants where the O line is the punchline - no thank you for me to double down on that problem.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 9, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

The thing is you need five quality OL. Even if you have a stud LT, its possible for the rest of your line to be mediocre or worse. 

 

The RoI on drafting one single OL is not that high unless you hit on a stud franchise LT type. 

[mh86]

Get the trenches ready for a QB in the following draft. 

[zCommander]

Mel Kiper releases top 25 players for 2023 NFL Draft

https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/Mel-Kiper-releases-top-25-players-for-2023-NFL-Draft-197101270/

[Warhead36]

Just get me a thoroughbred QB with upside that we can develop and build around.

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Just get me a thoroughbred QB with upside that we can develop and build around.

 

Unless we lose out, we're probably not going to be in a position to draft a stud prospect, unless we give up a king's ransom to move up.

[Going Commando]

21 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Look at the Giants transformation?  They draft Andrew Thomas who some say is the best LT now in the league and they double down with a first round pick again on a tackle this year -- and all of a sudden they are good.

 

Man I am with you 100% on investing in the OL.  I think that is the #1 way we improve our offensive performance, and thus the performance of our team as a whole.  It's how we get up into the echelon of contention with the Eagles.

 

But I also don't think you can expect quick returns on your OL investments, except maybe if you're sliding in a rookie guard and the rest of the guys are vets.  It's really really tough to overhaul an OL by putting in multiple rookies at the same time.  You kind of have to get lucky with really precocious talent when you do that, because a lot of times you have a lot much trouble executing your blocking schemes with two points of failure built in.  You can end up struggling to keep the unit together for enough time to develop all of the prospects.  I think that's what happened with the Giants, and you see them losing some of their investments like Will Hernandez in the process of rebuilding their line.  But if you go out and get a prospect like Andrew Thomas one year, then wait a couple of seasons for him to grow into his full power and then you add an Evan Neal, then you can overhaul a bad OL into a dominant one in an orderly fashion.

 

So stagger your effort and keep adding high quality prospects into your OL pipeline and you're going to be successful.  IMO, that means we should be adding one good (day one or day two) OL prospect to our pipeline every draft.  Failing that, then we need to be getting a high upside faller like a Trey Smith

 

I think the progression arc of Andrew Thomas is also really instructive about the time it takes to develop modern tackles.  He was an awesome and extremely high level OT prospect coming out of a program that ran a traditional offense where he did a lot of complicated run blocking and traditional pass-setting, and it still took him three years to become a dominant player in the NFL.  Not only that, he struggled as a rookie and looked way behind Becton, Wirfs, and Wells.  Now it's really unlikely to get a Joe Thomas or Jake Long who is a dominant rookie Pro-Bowler at LT.  Wirfs and Slater are the only rookie OTs I can remember who really hit the ground running in the last ten years.  And Wirfs plays on the right side of a vet laden OL pass blocking for a QB he doesn't have to hold his blocks for at all.  We can't replicate those kinds of circumstances allowing for early dominance.

 

The jump from college pass setting & exclusive two pt stance blocking to NFL style blocking is a very difficult transition to make, plus you are going from pass blocking one and two move guys who barely use their hands to the most creative and powerful and aggressive pass rushers in the sport.  So my point is that we should be patient with Cosmi's development, and only look to kick him inside if we get a really kick ass OT prospect.  Maybe a first rounder like Skoronski?  Otherwise where I would look for early impact from a rookie is with an IOL prospect--someone like the guard prospect from Florida that you highlighted.

 

I also think we need to move on from Roullier.  He's a good player, but he costs too much money for being unreliable.  I really wish we had been able to get Tyler Linderbaum last offseason, and thus set ourselves up to be able to cut Roullier in his out year.  But we also run a wide zone heavy rushing offense where we can thrive with an undersized center-only prospect, so there will be other quality options at a good price for us eventually.  But we need to make a plan for finding our next OC mainstay ASAP.  We can't keep losing our starter and then having to basically forfeit the next month of games with nonfunctional offense while we scramble to find a passable replacement.

[Est.1974]

QB situation set to one side..

 

I think a stud shutdown CB is the way to go. Watching the Jets now just routinely rush four because they can lock down the back end is the way to go. 

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

QB situation set to one side..

 

I think a stud shutdown CB is the way to go. Watching the Jets now just routinely rush four because they can lock down the back end is the way to go. 

 

OT > CB = ILB 

 

Depending on where we pick. 

 

St Juste could be legitimate. But if we're top 8, CB/OT is the only path. If we're picking at the last few picks prior to playoff teams ILB becomes a very real positional pick to replace Holcomb. 

[philibusters]

44 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

OT > CB = ILB 

 

Depending on where we pick. 

 

St Juste could be legitimate. But if we're top 8, CB/OT is the only path. If we're picking at the last few picks prior to playoff teams ILB becomes a very real positional pick to replace Holcomb. 

 

Wouldn't it be easier to just resign Holcomb?